The FCBD issue that showed it was very ambiguous as to if it was something that happens or something foreseen. You can find out easily enough for yourself next Wednesday though when Civil War II #1 comes out though.
[Comics] The "Let's Bitch about Comics thread!"
- Thread starter Yoshimickster
- Start date
I did some digging to substantiate at least one of the rumors.
She-Hulk is mentioned as "barely breathing" in FCBD Civil War II comic.
The rumor is that with her dying breath she tells Captain Marvel to keep using the prophetic Inhuman.
If you look at Marvel's site and the comics ahead, A-Force #7 is absent. A-Force #8 has no She-Hulk on the cover while the rest of the team is fighting.
A-Force #8's description is that this in-fighting is the result of a "personal tragedy" for the team.
The rumor is that with her dying breath she tells Captain Marvel to keep using the prophetic Inhuman.
If you look at Marvel's site and the comics ahead, A-Force #7 is absent. A-Force #8 has no She-Hulk on the cover while the rest of the team is fighting.
A-Force #8's description is that this in-fighting is the result of a "personal tragedy" for the team.
Looks like a done deal for her. Probably for Iron Man's friend too, but I haven't looked into that.
I'm not boycotting Marvel as a whole. I'm not going to buy Nick Spencer writing, that's for damn sure, but I'm not going to punish people like Ryan North or G Willow Wilson, or myself by not reading their others.
Well, at least you're not taking things this far:
I'd be lying if I said I hadn't thought about it yesterday, but then I'd have to buy the piece of shit. 
...so...many emotions regarding that image.
I meant what I said on tumblr. They're nothing to me now. There were so many times someone could have said no and didn't. Or worse, the order could have come from higher up the chain than the writer. This was a Marvel decision to run with this angle. So I'm done with Marvel period.
#yesallmarvel
BananaHands
Staff member
I think Nick Spencer is a fantastic writer. Superior Foes of Spider-Man was amazing and his new comic with Image called The Fix is only two issues deep and probably one of my more enjoyable pulls. Not surprised by this public outcry, however, as people who like to complain about the things happening in comics rarely read them.
Spencer headed this event called Standoff! which led to the de-aged Steve Rodgers we see wailin' and hailin' in the most recent issue of Steve Rodgers: Captain America (not to be confused with the Sam Wilson: Captain America which is pretty good too). At one point in the event Red Skull poses as a priest and accompanies ol' Stevey through the fray, which brought us to this moment:
It should be noted that in the first Uncanny Avengers run, Red Skull dug up the recently deceased Professor X and pulled out his brain. After some comic book science-mumbo-jumbo, Red Skull has been becoming a more and more powerful psychic while he fights what remains of Professor X's consciousness. At the end of the AXIS event, that part of Xavier is now gone and we've got a nazi with an omega-level psychic's abilities.
It's obvious that Red Skull has planted these memories in poor Steve Rodger's mind and that this is just going to be the focus for the first arc of his new series. Not sure why everyone is freaking out. A brainwashed hero plot has been done time and time and time again. We've had events where Tony Stark was a pawn of Kang, a whole run where Doc Ock occupied Spider-Man's body after killing Peter Parker both mentally and physically and we've even had Steve Rodgers brainwashed before. People should realize that with Marvel and DC, everything will ALWAYS return to the status quo.[DOUBLEPOST=1464405806,1464405608][/DOUBLEPOST]
Spencer headed this event called Standoff! which led to the de-aged Steve Rodgers we see wailin' and hailin' in the most recent issue of Steve Rodgers: Captain America (not to be confused with the Sam Wilson: Captain America which is pretty good too). At one point in the event Red Skull poses as a priest and accompanies ol' Stevey through the fray, which brought us to this moment:
It should be noted that in the first Uncanny Avengers run, Red Skull dug up the recently deceased Professor X and pulled out his brain. After some comic book science-mumbo-jumbo, Red Skull has been becoming a more and more powerful psychic while he fights what remains of Professor X's consciousness. At the end of the AXIS event, that part of Xavier is now gone and we've got a nazi with an omega-level psychic's abilities.
It's obvious that Red Skull has planted these memories in poor Steve Rodger's mind and that this is just going to be the focus for the first arc of his new series. Not sure why everyone is freaking out. A brainwashed hero plot has been done time and time and time again. We've had events where Tony Stark was a pawn of Kang, a whole run where Doc Ock occupied Spider-Man's body after killing Peter Parker both mentally and physically and we've even had Steve Rodgers brainwashed before. People should realize that with Marvel and DC, everything will ALWAYS return to the status quo.[DOUBLEPOST=1464405806,1464405608][/DOUBLEPOST]
Man, I'm so mad about She-Hulk. She is taken out by a tiny rocket to her tit.
A hulk. Taken out by a shitty War Machine rocket.
A hulk. Taken out by a shitty War Machine rocket.
But does he still have those powers/is the same Skull after Secret Wars? I don't know what, if anything, happened to him during those events.
figmentPez
Staff member
Except that Spencer has stated "This is not a clone, not an imposter, not mind control, not someone else acting through Steve. This really is Steve Rogers, Captain America himself.” (source)
Altered memories/brainwashing is mind control. And that's part of why I find this so repugnant. Even if there is some twist to this, they're going out of their way to make the public impression of Captain America having always been a traitor. There may be some great twist that makes it good storytelling, but that doesn't change that the PR is a poorly handled debacle that does nothing more than make it look like Marvel doesn't give a shit about people who look to Captain America as an icon.
BananaHands
Staff member
He recently used them on Rogue to make her think she was talking to Gambit when the Unity Squad finally caught up to him.
Well, they still have SamCap at least! He's fun.
I think you hit the nail on the head. Ignoring that this is a bad way to start a new Cap series, and ignoring that this a bad time for turning Cap on his head considering the popularity of the movies and Chris Evans PR--if it was just a comic by itself, it would be fine.
It's the whole "he was ALWAYS a traitor" and the insistence you'd see on Superman covers on superdickery.com "not a trick! not a dream!" The purposeful undermining of what Captain America stands for, means to some people, and their repeated "we're looking at the issues of today and this is a reflection of that." Like they sincerely believe this is the most brilliant thing they've ever done.
I'm reading the 2014 series and I'm pretty sure she's taken a few laser death beams and rockets to the chest without even being fazed. Pisses me off because there's two series that will be losing her and be poorer for it.
All for stupid Civil War II event. What'd be nice is if events didn't have to overtake the entire Marvel universe. They do this to try and get people to buy more comics, but I'm quitting Spider-Gwen because the constant crossovers are giving me 90s Spider-man flashbacks. It'd be nice if we got back to solid stories told within a title. X-Men had some amazing storylines way back, for example. They didn't need to take over the whole Marvel universe--they were just in X-Men. No need to involve EVERYONE all the time. Certainly no need to take loved characters and kill them for bullshit reasons. Brian Bendis has his place on the ash pile. I was happy to see Miles Morales getting a series again, but Bendis is writing, so fuck it.
You know it's bad when Ms Marvel's writer had to assure fans on Twitter that they wouldn't need to read main Civil War II books to follow what will be going on in Ms Marvel at the same time.[DOUBLEPOST=1464408460,1464408422][/DOUBLEPOST]
Until he has to fight Hydra Cap, which is what's being hinted at in promo art on the Marvel site.
BananaHands
Staff member
Oh, there was a point in Standoff! where Kobik did something strange to Steve, even before the part where she made him younger. Maybe this plays a part, they never really explained what she 'fixed'.
Current running fan explanation:
Still, as Pez pointed out, the way Marvel PR is handling it is really the problem. Nick Spencer is also being an absolute tool on Twitter.
Still, as Pez pointed out, the way Marvel PR is handling it is really the problem. Nick Spencer is also being an absolute tool on Twitter.
OH MY GOD, THEY TURNED AN AMERICAN ICON INTO A NAZI!
We need to boycott those Stan Lee and Jack Kirby guys!
We need to boycott those Stan Lee and Jack Kirby guys!
Look! It's a bird! It's a plane!
No, it's Didn'tReadtheWholeThreadMan! More powerful than reading others' posts! Able to leap over thread replies in a single scroll! Writes posts so fast he doesn't read the others!
Didn'tReadTheWholeThreadMan, here to save the thread!
The media hype is what pisses me off about this. I could care less if a story arc has Cap seeming to be with Hydra because it certainly wouldn't be the first time a story like that was written. It's that this is clearly a stunt.... just like every other time they have done something like this. I also feel like it's incredibly disrespectful of what other have done with the character in the past to say that he was a villain the whole time through his whole history. Those other writers were able to come up with a cool story that honored the character and didn't fundamentally change the underlying premise of the character.
If I had heard about this through a comic reviewer or from people reading the comic I would just shrug and say comics. That they creative team behind the new story are trying to push this as it's always been this way is them ignoring their own history.
If I had heard about this through a comic reviewer or from people reading the comic I would just shrug and say comics. That they creative team behind the new story are trying to push this as it's always been this way is them ignoring their own history.
Oh, I know. Everyone else here knows it's just temporary or there'll be an explanation.Look! It's a bird! It's a plane!
No, it's Didn'tReadtheWholeThreadMan! More powerful than reading others' posts! Able to leap over thread replies in a single scroll! Writes posts so fast he doesn't read the others!
Didn'tReadTheWholeThreadMan, here to save the thread!
It's the idiots on Twitter and such that keep going on about this story and calling Nick Spencer anti-semitic that make it ridiculous.
Yeah, and JJ Abrams said Khan wasn't in Star Trek Into Darkness.
He's a troll. I wouldn't say he's anti-semitic unless someone puts a word bubble saying "Hail Hydra" on a photo of him and Marvel claims he's anti-semitic ... and always was!
Interesting that I've seen this drive people towards picking up on the new DC stuff. They couldn't market it themselves, so it was up to Marvel to help them out. Timing worked out really well for them.
I really don't understand this whole thing. It's like people (as a whole) are too stupid to understand that this is the "hook" for the next issue. "What happens next?"
It's just stupid with the reactions to something that is part of a story, no matter what the upper-management is trying to push in the media to boost sales. Which, honestly, doesn't help most retailers because the orders for this issue were placed back in March and there is probably very little over-run available for re-orders. So, they're hyping the issue, to get people to find SRCA#1, and it's mostly not going to be available.
It's just stupid with the reactions to something that is part of a story, no matter what the upper-management is trying to push in the media to boost sales. Which, honestly, doesn't help most retailers because the orders for this issue were placed back in March and there is probably very little over-run available for re-orders. So, they're hyping the issue, to get people to find SRCA#1, and it's mostly not going to be available.
figmentPez
Staff member
Which was stupid as well, but at least he wasn't shitting on the work of other creators in the process.
You'd think good writers would be able come up with better misdirection.
At the end of the day, the real crime is the issue this huge reveal happens in is boring as fuck.
BananaHands
Staff member
Hey @Dave can we change the Captain America button from "I understand that reference" to "HAIL HYDRA!"?[DOUBLEPOST=1464464996,1464464775][/DOUBLEPOST]
I have this theory that Marvel and DC sat down and were like "Hey, I'll put out terrible movies if you put out terrible comics. Then, we can RULE THE WORLD.
figmentPez
Staff member
I like this explanation better:Current running fan explanation:
Still, as Pez pointed out, the way Marvel PR is handling it is really the problem. Nick Spencer is also being an absolute tool on Twitter.
But we weren't allowed to wonder what's next, what's going on, etc., because Marvel pulled a Superdickery cover on the whole thing. Instead of getting to go "Why would Cap do/say that? What's going to happen?" we have "He's a Hydra agent! Always was! Not a dream sequence! Not an illusion!"
I agree with you on that it makes no sense to hype something that was likely sold out anyway. Meanwhile Nick Spencer is drooling over the attention like a moron. "Derp, look how popular I am! I am beloved!" He thinks this makes him the next Alan Moore, but I think his path lies more down the road traveled by Mark Millar.
Another note with this: it's easy for comic book elitists to go (and I'm quoting Reddit comments here) "only the normies are upset, us comic readers know better." But that readership dwindles because of time, and fails to gain new blood because of shit like this.
Little kids read these comics, and I've seen many anecdotes about kids who looked up to Captain America asking if he's evil. Now again, elitist attitude is probably to hell with 'em, but again it fails to bring in the new blood. Kids get jaded, they walk away. I don't think Marvel considers the repercussions of this kind of thing at a time when Chris Evans, dressed as Cap, goes to visit sick kids in hospitals in his free time.
Now I know Nick mentions critically acclaimed comics you can be reading, but a lot of those aren't superhero comics, which is something that resonates with kids. I wouldn't hand Saga or The Walking Dead or The Sandman to an 8-year-old.
I say all this because I remember being dicked around by comics. Spider-man Clone Saga vs little me. The final issue I ever read of any Spider-man comic had crazy "been a clone all along!" Peter Parker chasing pregnant Mary Jane through the NYC subway intent on murdering her. That was when I walked away.
Little kids read these comics, and I've seen many anecdotes about kids who looked up to Captain America asking if he's evil. Now again, elitist attitude is probably to hell with 'em, but again it fails to bring in the new blood. Kids get jaded, they walk away. I don't think Marvel considers the repercussions of this kind of thing at a time when Chris Evans, dressed as Cap, goes to visit sick kids in hospitals in his free time.
Now I know Nick mentions critically acclaimed comics you can be reading, but a lot of those aren't superhero comics, which is something that resonates with kids. I wouldn't hand Saga or The Walking Dead or The Sandman to an 8-year-old
.I say all this because I remember being dicked around by comics. Spider-man Clone Saga vs little me. The final issue I ever read of any Spider-man comic had crazy "been a clone all along!" Peter Parker chasing pregnant Mary Jane through the NYC subway intent on murdering her. That was when I walked away.
figmentPez
Staff member
A minor internet celebrity had this to say on my Tumblr dash, "Marvel owns the characters, not you. They’re in fact LEGALLY allowed to do whatever the hell they want, even if we don’t like it. You can absolutely ignore this particular story event. Lots of people ignore certain story events. This doesn’t eliminate who Steve Rogers has been in the past. And the comics have gone in so many different directions and have retold certain events so many times that you can legitimately pick and choose which parts are your “canon”."
And she's right, Marvel legally owns the characters, and can do what they please with them. Just like Spider-Man can choose to use his powers for selfish gain and ignore crime going on around him. Marvel isn't just owner of an intellectual property. It is caretaker of a role model and icon. With great power comes great responsiblity.
Also with ... another character. 
Really hoping Singularity can bring She-Hulk back soon enough.[/quote]
Those recommendations were never for children. Always adults. There are plenty of kid-friendly comics I could recommend and have in the past: Bone, Amulet, Mouse Guard, Lumberjanes, Battling Boy, Sentinel, anything by Doug Tennapel, anything by Raina Telgmeier. If kids want the superheroes they saw on the big screen, both companies have decades of backstock that have been collected. It's just a matter of having informed parents know which books to pick up. To be fair, there are SOME kid-friendly books, like Squirrel Girl and I believe Batgirl.Now I know Nick mentions critically acclaimed comics you can be reading, but a lot of those aren't superhero comics, which is something that resonates with kids. I wouldn't hand Saga or The Walking Dead or The Sandman to an 8-year-old
But because a younger audience was the target for decades (even as far back as the late 90s, early 2000s), there is plenty of backstock to choose from. A child wants Spider-Man? How about some of the classic stuff? Ultimate Spider-Man is pretty safe. Or, if they're still in print, the Marvel Adventures digests. I think there's a current title called Spidey that's more kid-friendly.
Neither company has, for the most part, aimed their product at a younger audience for years. DC's Dan Didio specifically said their target now are mostly adult males, around my age (give or take a decade). Marvel is close to the same. Which is mind-boggling to me, especially DC. They'll have an R-rated version of Batman v Superman primed and ready to go, yet they still sell kids clothes, bed sheets, chapter books, and toys with those same characters. Hell, there are picture books for Nolan's Batman. I believe there are picture books for Batman v Superman, which is even more mind-boggling. For the most part, though, kids have not been the target audience for a long time. Unless they're specifically branded for younger audiences, like the now defunct Marvel Adventures line or the spin-off comics from cartoons series (Batman Adventures, Superman Adventures, etc). There's no way I'd let a young kid today read a Batman title, with Joker's face ripped off and taped back on or Justice League where Aquaman gouges out Darkseid's eyes.
Hell, I cringe whenever either of my nieces (13 and 7 respectfully) look at my shelves. The 13-year old might be able to handle some stuff, but not Saga or Sex Criminals. I have a shelf specifically for all my kid books like the ones I mentioned (I basically looked at it while typing the recommendations). And the 7 year old has looked at some of those, which is fine. But even I know most of my comics wouldn't be safe for her to read, even most of my Marvel and DC stuff.
If it makes you feel any better Joker lost his face-flesh mask and a crazy sewer girl started wearing it and calling herself Joker's Daughter.