The MMO "Elitist" culture, or how I became a "Baddie". (WoW)

[ScytheRexx]

So since everyone thinks I say nothing negative about WoW, I am going to post something that has been on my mind lately. It came to the front just a few days ago after some questionable heroic dungeon runs that left me with a bitter taste in my mouth. While this is mostly about WoW, it would be interesting to hear other peoples stories involving this shift and if such have appeared in other MMOs. I don't have enough end game experience in most of the other MMOs out right now to really know.

So a few days ago I am running the new heroic dungeon added for 3.2 on one of my alts, a rogue with a few blues (good gear) and purples (great gear). I had done the place before on her without a hitch, even ended up finishing out the achievement on that run, but I ran into a problem that really pushed what I hate about WoW, the "elitist" community and the nature of dungeons and raids on my server.

We start the first fight, and the two other DPS vastly outgear me. They are both in purples attained from Ulduar. This is normally not a problem as long as I pull my weight. On the first boss alone I worked hard to keep the shaman interrupted, stunned when I could, basically rather then just concentrating on pure DPS I concentrated on making life easier for the tank and healer. I died at one point thanks to my own mistake of moving the wrong way out of a whirlwind from the warrior boss, but I quickly ran back and into the fight without missing a beat. I was greeted with one of the DPS posting the "damage meters". "Karon, were you even playing? Your DPS sucks ass." came one of the epiced out DPS. The other DPS soon joined in, "You are a baddie", the tank had to come out and defend me but I just stayed silent, I was not going to deal with people like that.

I took a step back and considered what was going on. I had fought to do my part, I didn't wait for a ress and instead ran back so I could continue helping, and didn't actually do horrible DPS based on my gear level, but since the other two DPS vaslty outgeared me and did much more DPS, I was now a "Baddie" AKA "A bad player". I stood back and thought back to how people ask for groups on my server now, mostly raids.

"LFM Naxx10. WoWHeroes 2300+ GEARED RUN, KICK BADDIES. PST Stats/Score/Achievement"

For those not in the know, Naxx10 is probably the lowest raid you can do at 80. What is that asking above? WoWHeroes is a "Gear Score" website that takes all your gear and gives it a rating. 2300+ is Ulduar quality gear meaning there is little reason to even run Naxx, but if you don't have gear HIGHER then Naxx, they don't want to take you. Asking for Achievement means they want you to post that you have done the instance, so new players need not apply. What do they consider a "baddie"? Anyone that does not know the ins and out of every fight and makes a mistake because no one ever explains it to them and thus they are instantly kicked out, that is, if they even make it into the raid at all.

This is the culture I feel has take over way more of the end game these days. In order to get the gear and learn the raids, you need to already have the gear and already know the raids, because no one will take you otherwise. You can look for a guild willing to run with you, but they will most likely tell you to bring one character and one character only, so that leaves you alts out in the cold (As my guild has done to me). Has it really gotten so bad that heroics, extremely easy instances, are now going to start requiring WoWHeroes?

"LFM Chain Heroics, GEARED GROUP, No Baddies. WoWHeroes Score will be checked."

Oh... No wonder one of the most popular WoW websites is called "Elitist Jerks"

Really, as much as I love the game, the community of "Elitists" are probably going to be what ends up pushing me out. They have been around for a long time but it only feels worst and worst this time around. I am very glad I am not a new player because I probably would hate WoW if I started it right now.

 

[Shannow]

Scrub.

 

[rac3r_x]

Yup, right there you have pretty much summed up why I left WoW 6 months ago and will probably never return.

 

[Shegokigo]

I've played since 2 weeks after public release. I've never heard the term "baddie" and I've never seen a LFG call like the one you just described... :bush: I play 5hrs a day minimum too. Oh and I was in a "server first" Alliance Hard-Mode raiding guild. Never heard those terms once in there either. Sounds to me like you have a shitty server pop.

 

[Gkbur]

I play on Wyrmrest Accord and have never had a problem like that. I mean, maybe it's because I'm on a roleplaying server, but for me groups are usually very accepting. (within reason, we're not gonna take someone who can only do 1200 dps into a 25 man VoA) I've never had anyone ask about my achievements, and most Naxx groups just ask you to have decent gear/dps. I've also never heard anyone use "baddie" to describe anyone, heck even with the example I listed above of the 1200 dps, we were still polite about not bringing him. Maybe I've just been lucky though.

 

[ScytheRexx]

You guys bring up the good point that servers create their own communities and that some will just naturally form better then others. Some servers I am sure are not nearly as bad as mine, but terms like "baddie" and such are becoming more mainstream, I see the word appear a lot now in posts around MMO-Champion, WoW.com, and the official forums. Maybe all of them hail from my server.

I have wanted to transfer for nearly a year now, but I don't wish to lose my friends, nor do I want to pay hundreds of dollars to transfer all my characters. I feel kind of stuck in that regard, so in the end I deal with the stuff above and just swallow it up.

If it gets to the point where the game is pushing me away, I may just transfer anyways, and try and convince my friends to follow.

 

[Dei]

The gear score thing makes me rage so much. I have an Ulduar geared main with Val'anyr so she's obviously not going to have an issue with that, but whenever I try to gear up alts I have the same issues getting into pug dungeon runs. Even though I know all the dungeons forwards and backwards, know how to play my class, and can probably out DPS some of the people with higher gear scores than me I'd get denied because my gear score wasn't high enough (and ironically the only way to have a high enough gear score with most of these idiots is to not actually need the instance). It's one thing to be considered a baddie if you can't play your class, or you gear completely wrong. But to say someone who gears wrong but has a really high gear score is "better" than someone who gears correctly but is still in mixed blues and epics is so fucking retarded that it makes me want to slap people.

 

[crono1224]

I have seen requirements for dps (even stupider than gearscore), and required for people to tell what there stats are, though haven't seen the term baddie.

I tend to think its all moot though, there are plenty of people that get carried to gear that far out ranks their abilities (a funny term for gaming but it exist and you can call it what you want).

Also I think elitiest jerks was a guild first then kinda formed into a wow help theorycrafting website.

 

[ElJuski]

I really hate elitist video game players in general, and it always turns me off. I played WoW to dick around with my friends and have some fun. Those assholes can keep their tube-socking, basement dwelling, XFUCKINCORE video game lives. I'll stay a "baddie".

 

[Bellygrub]

My server (Maelstrom) runs pick ups and raids much like you've said Scythe. I don't know if there are any website checks though. Oh and replace "baddie" with "terribad". I haven't raiding since ZG was introduced though so that doesn't really affect me.

I'm a PVPer and PVP groups are formed in much the same way these days however. They'll want to know your resilience. What achievements you have. Etc etc. It's ridiculous. Now I just run around on alts soloing and goofing around with friends.

 

[Singularity.EXE]

Heh, I checked my little Warlock (who still has a blue trinket, and a range of gear from Naxx to Ulduar) who has a ranking of 2356 on WoWheroes. Please note that this little warlock pulls top 3 Raid DPS despite other people consistently having better gear then me.

I honestly gotta say that it sounds like you just have a shitty server pop. Either that or I have been so sheltered with my kick-ass guild that I've never had to really experience this sort of behavior.

 

[Covar]

My server (Maelstrom) runs pick ups and raids much like you've said Scythe. I don't know if there are any website checks though. Oh and replace "baddie" with "terribad". I haven't raiding since ZG was introduced though so that doesn't really affect me.

I'm a PVPer and PVP groups are formed in much the same way these days however. They'll want to know your resilience. What achievements you have. Etc etc. It's ridiculous. Now I just run around on alts soloing and goofing around with friends.

I used to play Alliance on Maelstrom and never seemed to have that problem. Of course I quite not long after Lich King when all my RL friends switched servers on me because the hardcore guild they were on wanted to be on a server with a "better" population of players. Whats sad is one of my Roommates still doesn't understand why I quit.

 

[sixpackshaker]

My guild is starting to hit these issues. Before I came in they lost several raiders. I was brought in because half the guild new me from the level 60 days. I had not raided in at least a year and a half. I was getting my gear ready for raiding, and the Guild Leader just let me start tagging along. It was a little surprising since he did not know me. I geared up pretty fast that way. To the extent that in one raid I picked up 6 pieces of purple gear in Naxx. I was called the evening's loot whore.

Now we have the dilemma that half of our raid group is fully Naxx'ed out and have about 1/4 of their Uludar set, and the other half are new to raiding in general and only have half of their Naxx set.

Our forums is erupting into the factions of we only need to let in elite players that have gear comparable to Naxx. I.E. they need to have been running heroics for months to get some gear that get them ready to skip Naxx, and go straight to Uludar. And the others that just want to keep us a casual raiding guild.

I can't stand the drama.

 

[Jay]

I hated the direction the game was going with the last expansion and left. "We're going to make raiding more casual"... fuck that. I was in a World class Top 100 guild that ranked 87th globally after we downed Kil'jaeden. I worked hard for that but I never shat on anyone who I didn't know in my guild. Frankly, I never pubbed or PVPed since I couldn't find myself depending on someone not of my "own". Getting gear with alts meant that I had to do mini-raids, dungeons with "loved ones", basically the wives/gfs husband/bf of our raiders... some frustrating runs had me surrounded by 4 women... sometimes it wasn't so frustrating. Ooooh, look at his gear. BTW, did I ever tell you I love your French accent?

Good times.

Achievements, Scores?? What the fuck is this? What does it matter?? It'll simply cause the game players to segregate amongst it's population. Congratulations your LVL 80 alt is now considered black, enjoy scrounging for Naxx raid spots.

I couldn't agree more with the OP.

And lols, 2 extra raid zones in a year, both cleared within the month. My old guild has fallen apart on how freakin' boring the game has become.

 

[strawman]

I only ever play with friends and family, and it's casual gaming at best. Awesome fun.

If the people you are playing with don't fit your play style, play with someone else. There's always another raid happening somewhere. Some groups will be good with what you have and what you do, and some won't.

Best thing to do is realize it as early as you can and offer to leave the group.

Further, there are more people like you on the server than there are like them. Start your own raid, and specifically mention that you don't care about that stuff - you'll get lots of people who want to play it the way you do. It may be a bit harder than you're used to, but it'll be much more fun.

No need to switch servers, just start a new character on several other servers, and find out which ones suit your play style, then level the new character up. You may find it quite refreshing to play from the start with all the changes that have been made since you last did one from scratch.

Also, keep in mind that a change of pace may be all that's needed. Gear up your raiding character and change your play style so they can play with the 'elitists' you're talking about, and play your casual game elsewhere. There's no reason to play the same way with every character.

-Adam

 

[Shannow]

pvp exp is great. im jsut running av on my laptop behind me, reaching over to tap space every so often, and leaching exp to 80! Wooooo!

 

[Singularity.EXE]

pvp exp is great. im jsut running av on my laptop behind me, reaching over to tap space every so often, and leaching exp to 80! Wooooo!

I hate you and everything you stand for.

 

Yup, right there you have pretty much summed up why I left WoW 6 months ago and will probably never return.

Same. I found it really, REALLY hard to get into any raids to GET geared up because I wasn't already geared up. I couldn't get experience with the instance because I hadn't already been IN the instance to know it backwards and forwards.

Your post pretty much sums up how I felt near the end.

 

[Dei]

Wait, there's actually people that play alliance on Maelstrom?! >.>

(loljokeaboutpopulationimbalance)

 

[CynicismKills]

Sounds like you're just on a shitty server. I have no problems at all on mine, though it's a pretty low-pop server (Steamwheedle).

Also gear scores are dumb and achievement points mean dick. I pump out plenty of DPS on my Fury Warrior and my Achievement score is only like 2300-something.

 

[FCForrest]

Wait, there's actually people that play alliance on Maelstrom?! >.>

(loljokeaboutpopulationimbalance)

[/lurk]

I was thinking the same thing! Played there for 2 years as Alliance and the bulk of our guild rerolled on another server because we were sick of the place.

 

[Shannow]

pvp exp is great. im jsut running av on my laptop behind me, reaching over to tap space every so often, and leaching exp to 80! Wooooo!

I hate you and everything you stand for.

Meh, i have played enough, and dont liek to level anymore. This one, I am letting all the tohers do the work for me. All i do it turn back every 5 min and hit the space bar! perfect! And I am not even botting or anything. This is great!

Edit: matter of Fact, loking back, i dinged 76! hahahahahaha

 

[Shegokigo]

Yup, right there you have pretty much summed up why I left WoW 6 months ago and will probably never return.

Same. I found it really, REALLY hard to get into any raids to GET geared up because I wasn't already geared up. I couldn't get experience with the instance because I hadn't already been IN the instance to know it backwards and forwards.

Your post pretty much sums up how I felt near the end.

Sounds like this really annoying commerical for a local college.

"I can't get a job because I don't have any skills, I don't have any skills because i didn't finish school, I can't get into school because I don't have any money, I don't have any money cause I can't get a job....." over and over.....

 

[Pojodan]

It does sound like the OP's server just has a very unpleasent community.

My server, Cenarius, doesn't have that problem to that degree, in my experience. Oh, yes, you'll run into elitists here and there, but the top guilds (Afterlife and Arathian Knights) both have pretty stellar reputations for not putting up with foul behavior, so that notion kinda permeates through the rest of the server. This is Alliance side, though, and I get the feeling things are rather different on Horde side as Cenarius Horde typically run things rather dirty in what little PvP there is that I've seen.

The down side to this is that pug raids are generally horrible due to the lack of controls your average pug raid leader puts on who they invite, though I know of a couple that are pretty good at spotting the -real- baddies (this is a term I've never heard before now), whom are basically people who've clearly not leveled the character and just bought or borrowed it.

Having an active, helpful guild (Pocket Rockets ftw) makes the experience so much better, though.

 

[Seraphyn]

Achievements, gear scores and DPS/Heal meters are the things that in theory add a lot to the game, but in reality get abused to the level described in the OP. I never liked the elitist attitude in games in general, but WoW really seemed to take the cake. Maybe that's just because I put more hours in that game then any other, but it wasn't server specific at least, since I've been on plenty just trying to find a mellowed out guild who still raided.

In the end I quit due to boredom with the content, which was mainly caused by not being able to continue on to newer content. So yeah I'm a "Baddie" too and I couldn't care less.

 

[sixpackshaker]

I was in Uludar the other night. I asked one of the other hunters to track my dps for me since I don't run a dps meter. After Razorscale she posted the DPS ratings in the hunter chat, and said she smoked us other 2 hunters. Then I said, if you smoked me, why did I do twice the damage?

 

[Shannow]

30% now into 76...doing nothing. And it hasnt even touched rested. Holy crap, I shouldve leveled liek this from the rip on this toon! I sjut set it to go here at work, tap the space bar ever couple min, and back to work.


Hmmm, I always did want to go back to a warrior for an alt....

 

[Rob King]

Wait, there's actually people that play alliance on Maelstrom?! >.>

(loljokeaboutpopulationimbalance)

Hah. I rolled alliance on a server (Vashj I think it was) only a week after it went up. Apparently, several large Horde guilds had just moved onto the server and ... well ... no alliance. I kept hearing a statistic that the Horde outnumbered us 10 to 1 on that server. I have no idea how to check that, so I can't confirm, but since it was a PvP server and I couldn't step into a contested area without becoming a scorchmark in the dirt, the number sounded right in my estimation.

I've been told the server has leveled out more recently though. Not that I would know. I haven't played ever since my time card ran out. I'd love to get back at it, but I don't have money, and I didn't really have the interest in putting the required time into it to maintain a halfway-decent main to begin with.

 

[HoboNinja]

Yeah I am working hard to get my priest to 80 but I will have shit gear so I won't get in any good raids, luckily I have a lot of good irl friends that will run and gear me up. My buddies Derek and Leo just got 80 on our server and Derek was fully epiced and ready for 25 man ulduar in like 2-3 days, Leo has been working at it for about 3 days and is good enough for naxx and could probably do ulduar with a good group but hes working on getting better gear still. ToC has made it so easy to gear up to raid it ridiculous.


But yeah I am half way through 55 right now and have been getting anywhere from 2-5 levels a day but school starts next week so that means it will probably take me at least another month or two to ding 80 because that will cut down on my play time. I leveled from 51-55 all in AB and AV it was so legit, and no I am not an afk douchebag, I actually play and try to win. I got a good 10-15 achievements while leveling.

 

[Mutiny]

...as Cenarius Horde typically run things rather dirty in what little PvP there is that I've seen.

I play on Cenarius, Horde side, and I'm curious what you mean by this.

 

[Chazwozel]

So since everyone thinks I say nothing negative about WoW, I am going to post something that has been on my mind lately. It came to the front just a few days ago after some questionable heroic dungeon runs that left me with a bitter taste in my mouth. While this is mostly about WoW, it would be interesting to hear other peoples stories involving this shift and if such have appeared in other MMOs. I don't have enough end game experience in most of the other MMOs out right now to really know.

So a few days ago I am running the new heroic dungeon added for 3.2 on one of my alts, a rogue with a few blues (good gear) and purples (great gear). I had done the place before on her without a hitch, even ended up finishing out the achievement on that run, but I ran into a problem that really pushed what I hate about WoW, the "elitist" community and the nature of dungeons and raids on my server.

We start the first fight, and the two other DPS vastly outgear me. They are both in purples attained from Ulduar. This is normally not a problem as long as I pull my weight. On the first boss alone I worked hard to keep the shaman interrupted, stunned when I could, basically rather then just concentrating on pure DPS I concentrated on making life easier for the tank and healer. I died at one point thanks to my own mistake of moving the wrong way out of a whirlwind from the warrior boss, but I quickly ran back and into the fight without missing a beat. I was greeted with one of the DPS posting the "damage meters". "Karon, were you even playing? Your DPS sucks a**." came one of the epiced out DPS. The other DPS soon joined in, "You are a baddie", the tank had to come out and defend me but I just stayed silent, I was not going to deal with people like that.

I took a step back and considered what was going on. I had fought to do my part, I didn't wait for a ress and instead ran back so I could continue helping, and didn't actually do horrible DPS based on my gear level, but since the other two DPS vaslty outgeared me and did much more DPS, I was now a "Baddie" AKA "A bad player". I stood back and thought back to how people ask for groups on my server now, mostly raids.

"LFM Naxx10. WoWHeroes 2300+ GEARED RUN, KICK BADDIES. PST Stats/Score/Achievement"

For those not in the know, Naxx10 is probably the lowest raid you can do at 80. What is that asking above? WoWHeroes is a "Gear Score" website that takes all your gear and gives it a rating. 2300+ is Ulduar quality gear meaning there is little reason to even run Naxx, but if you don't have gear HIGHER then Naxx, they don't want to take you. Asking for Achievement means they want you to post that you have done the instance, so new players need not apply. What do they consider a "baddie"? Anyone that does not know the ins and out of every fight and makes a mistake because no one ever explains it to them and thus they are instantly kicked out, that is, if they even make it into the raid at all.

This is the culture I feel has take over way more of the end game these days. In order to get the gear and learn the raids, you need to already have the gear and already know the raids, because no one will take you otherwise. You can look for a guild willing to run with you, but they will most likely tell you to bring one character and one character only, so that leaves you alts out in the cold (As my guild has done to me). Has it really gotten so bad that heroics, extremely easy instances, are now going to start requiring WoWHeroes?

"LFM Chain Heroics, GEARED GROUP, No Baddies. WoWHeroes Score will be checked."

Oh... No wonder one of the most popular WoW websites is called "Elitist Jerks"

Really, as much as I love the game, the community of "Elitists" are probably going to be what ends up pushing me out. They have been around for a long time but it only feels worst and worst this time around. I am very glad I am not a new player because I probably would hate WoW if I started it right now.

You fail at a game designed for people who fail at games. Congratulations.

-- Tue Aug 18, 2009 4:09 pm --

pvp exp is great. im jsut running av on my laptop behind me, reaching over to tap space every so often, and leaching exp to 80! Wooooo!

I suggest you invest in one of these:

 

[ScytheRexx]

You fail at a game designed for people who fail at games. Congratulations.

You waste your time posting absolutely nothing of value to the discussion. Congratulations. :tongue:

 

[Chazwozel]

I hated the direction the game was going with the last expansion and left. "We're going to make raiding more casual"... smurf that. I was in a World class Top 100 guild that ranked 87th globally after we downed Kil'jaeden. I worked hard for that but I never shat on anyone who I didn't know in my guild. Frankly, I never pubbed or PVPed since I couldn't find myself depending on someone not of my "own". Getting gear with alts meant that I had to do mini-raids, dungeons with "loved ones", basically the wives/gfs husband/bf of our raiders... some frustrating runs had me surrounded by 4 women... sometimes it wasn't so frustrating. Ooooh, look at his gear. BTW, did I ever tell you I love your French accent?

Good times.

Achievements, Scores?? What the smurf is this? What does it matter?? It'll simply cause the game players to segregate amongst it's population. Congratulations your LVL 80 alt is now considered black, enjoy scrounging for Naxx raid spots.

I couldn't agree more with the OP.

And lols, 2 extra raid zones in a year, both cleared within the month. My old guild has fallen apart on how freakin' boring the game has become.

I found these two contradictions kinda funny...

-- Tue Aug 18, 2009 4:16 pm --

You fail at a game designed for people who fail at games. Congratulations.

You waste your time posting absolutely nothing of value to the discussion. Congratulations. :tongue:

15 second post. SOooooooOOOoooooOOOoooo much time wasted...

My point is, why do you care so much about what someone on the internet thinks? Do you honestly believe that what you rank to the standards of some asshole in your group really matters? Hell, I wish I was in that group with you. I would have egged them on, just to hear you weep over it.

"Oh God, I'm not good enough. These guys are such jerks."

You do realize that more than half of the WoW population is a bunch of 15 year olds, and the other quarter are a bunch of no life losers, right? Why do you care what they have to say about you?

 

[ScytheRexx]

My point is, why do you care so much about what someone on the internet thinks? Do you honestly believe that what you rank to the standards of some * in your group really matters? *, I wish I was in that group with you. I would have egged them on, just to hear you weep over it.

You seem to misunderstand me, but that is nothing really new with you Chaz. My post was a commentary on something that annoyed me, I have not once cried in a group because the "elitists were mean to me! wah" because if I really wanted to, I have two characters in raid gear to take on those very raids I despise so much if raiding itself was all that mattered to me.

It more the principle of it. I can't get groups on alts because people are not willing to trust you know what you are doing unless you have some marker, whether achievements, gear scores, or other variables. Really, I am not getting hurt by it, but players like you, that may never really even see the end game, do, and I would rather bring someone on my own raids that wants to learn then the epicced out warlock that calls everyone with less DPS then them a "baddie".

Your attack on me is both ironic, and trollish, so I ask you stay on topic and don't invent what I was feeling, it makes you look silly. :slywink:

 

[Chazwozel]

My point is, why do you care so much about what someone on the internet thinks? Do you honestly believe that what you rank to the standards of some * in your group really matters? *, I wish I was in that group with you. I would have egged them on, just to hear you weep over it.

You seem to misunderstand me, but that is nothing really new with you Chaz. My post was a commentary on something that annoyed me, I have not once cried in a group because the "elitists were mean to me! wah" because if I really wanted to, I have two characters in raid gear to take on those very raids I despise so much if raiding itself was all that mattered to me.

It more the principle of it. I can't get groups on alts because people are not willing to trust you know what you are doing unless you have some marker, whether achievements, gear scores, or other variables. Really, I am not getting hurt by it, but players like you, that may never really even see the end game, do, and I would rather bring someone on my own raids that wants to learn then the epicced out warlock that calls everyone with less DPS then them a "baddie".

Your attack on me is both ironic, and trollish, so I ask you stay on topic and don't invent what I was feeling, it makes you look silly. :slywink:

Oh I understand you just fine; I'm simply saying: welcome to the wonderful world of Battlenet. This is nothing new or relevant. Again, congratulations on failing at a game designed for failures of games. If you were smarter you wouldn't bother with PUGs and simply raid with your guild or a pug with your similar stats. WoW elitists are hilarious! The game takes no effort. You should try your hand at DOTA War III maps. Those fuckers kick you out if you start to just download the map!