[News] The Trayvon Martin Discussion Thread
- Thread starter Charlie Don't Surf
- Start date
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PotaDOS
You know how if you park your car in a parking space that belongs to you, and some drunken asshole blazes through and bangs up your vehicle, your insurance company will raise your rates because it was your fault you parked it where a drunken driver might slam into it?
Sorry, Dave, but your argument isn't much better than that. There is no scenario where stalking a guy while carrying a loaded weapon just because they're "looking suspicious" (also known as wearing a hoodie) is ok. It might not have been the smartest thing to turn around, but really, I can't see why you're blaming the dead guy.
Sorry, Dave, but your argument isn't much better than that. There is no scenario where stalking a guy while carrying a loaded weapon just because they're "looking suspicious" (also known as wearing a hoodie) is ok. It might not have been the smartest thing to turn around, but really, I can't see why you're blaming the dead guy.
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makare
I still disagree with Dave completely. Also, just as a nitpick they can't BOTH be a 100% responsible. If they are equal parts responsible it would be 50% at least as far as calculating negligence and damages goes.
I say Travyon acted completely reasonably and is not at fault in any way. Just because there was something that would have been a BETTER move doesn't mean what he did was wrong. Shooting someone you have been stalking like an animal is wrong.. pretty much always wrong. Even the cops can't get away with that one under most circumstances.
I say Travyon acted completely reasonably and is not at fault in any way. Just because there was something that would have been a BETTER move doesn't mean what he did was wrong. Shooting someone you have been stalking like an animal is wrong.. pretty much always wrong. Even the cops can't get away with that one under most circumstances.
Dave
Staff member
I'm saying that it's as much his fault as the other guy's. Zimmerman is a fucking moron, but until physically attacked I doubt he'd have done anything. As it stands, he was getting beaten and he panicked as untrained people carrying weapons do. When people carrying have no training, that's when stupid shit like this happens. Zimmerman overreacted, but he didn't just run the kid down in cold blood. The kid felt the need to escalate a situation that didn't need to be. He has to shoulder some of the blame for this by starting the physical side of it.
Zimmerman will either (a) get off with a self defense or (b) be charged with manslaughter. Personally, I think it should be (b) as he had no right carrying the weapon in the first place and he disobeyed a direct order from the 911 operator to stand down and let the real authorities handle it. In fact, I don't see (a) as much of a possibility due to the damning evidence of the initial 911 call.
DO I think Martin deserved to die? Of course not! Do I think he had any reasonable reason to think he might be shot attacking a stranger in the night? That's a bit more murky. You don't attack ANYONE without accepting some of the consequences.
Zimmerman will either (a) get off with a self defense or (b) be charged with manslaughter. Personally, I think it should be (b) as he had no right carrying the weapon in the first place and he disobeyed a direct order from the 911 operator to stand down and let the real authorities handle it. In fact, I don't see (a) as much of a possibility due to the damning evidence of the initial 911 call.
DO I think Martin deserved to die? Of course not! Do I think he had any reasonable reason to think he might be shot attacking a stranger in the night? That's a bit more murky. You don't attack ANYONE without accepting some of the consequences.
Dave
Staff member
You think Martin acted 100% reasonably? You, madam, are [redacted to fit in the rules of the board].
And I said 100% for both because I don't know the exact percentages and they both acted irresponsibly.
I wish that the media would quit calling Zimmerman "The Neighborhood Watch Captain" he was none of those things. He was just a douche that was really obsessed with crime. Who would drive around the neighborhood calling in "suspicious people." It never turned out to be anyone committing a crime either.
Also "We don't need you to be doing that," is not a command. A command is "Stop following that kid. We have a cruiser on the way."
Also "We don't need you to be doing that," is not a command. A command is "Stop following that kid. We have a cruiser on the way."
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makare
I think dave just likes using the term 100%.
Some dispatch supervisors don't like the dispatchers giving orders to complainants, as they have dubious legal authority to issue a citizen orders... sixpackshaker raises a very salient point, that may end up being part of the defense strategy.
M
makare
I feel bad for the dispatcher then. Hope he/she isn't held responsible I mean it sucks that this guy was a nut who needed the "hey stop being a lunatic" written out for him but I think it wasn't unreasonable for the dispatcher not to think that.
I realize that is kind of confusing. I can't really explain what I mean very well about that issue.
I realize that is kind of confusing. I can't really explain what I mean very well about that issue.
Yeah, it's an awesome message to send. It's basically the same thing as Geraldo telling women to knock it off with all that pesky having vaginas nonsense if they wanna avoid rape.
And don't punch an armed stranger in the nose.
That's pretty much how I meant it, yeah.
Dave
Staff member
Yeah, they're exactly the same thing.
When he's referring to Geraldo blaming it on hoodies, it's very similar.Yeah, they're exactly the same thing.
S
SeraRelm
Dave, I agree with you 100% if what we've heard about the altercation holds true. Its like running into traffic and getting hit. They should have swerved, but you ran in.
Dave
Staff member
Gotcha. I thought it was leveled at me.
I take it back, he may have been. I missed the entire 4th page of posts.
figmentPez
Staff member
There is nothing wrong with parking in a designated parking space. That is not a foolish choice to make. Confronting someone who is stalking you is not a wise decision. A more apt parking comparison would be parking on the shoulder of a busy highway, when there are other parking spaces available. If a drunk plows into your car when you parked someplace unwise, that doesn't absolve you of the foolishness of poor parking. The guilt of bad parking choices does not mean you deserve to have your car destroyed, but you're still foolish to park there no matter what happens afterwards. The two things are not actually related. Even though the car would not have been destroyed by the drunk driver if it had been parked in a designated spot, and not just on the side of the road, that is not the cause of the destruction, and the destruction does not negate foolishness in parking.
I agree that Martin did not act responsibly. He was a 15 year old kid! They're all dipshits! Zimmerman is the adult in the situation and is 100% responsible for what happened.
figmentPez
Staff member
Ah, I like your edit (glad it showed up when I went to quote your post.)
We also focus a lot on "don't get robbed" instead of "don't steal". There's far more invested in the sale of door locks, home safes and other stuff than there is in campaigns to tell people not to steal.
Wow... just... wow...
You're tricking me into liking you again. It won't work this time. I mean it!
ElJuski
Staff member
All you have to do is segway the topic into memes and good posting, and we can get back into this hate business once more.