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This film > Crouching Tiger + Jackie Chan + Jet Li + every other film, EVER.

#1



Element 117

ok. So, massive hyperbole. But as someone who grew up with brothers and cousins overdosing on martial arts films I have to say, this film is the best god damn martial arts film I have ever seen. I was cheering, crying and cussing in Cantonese. It made me five years old again.



My opinion doesn't mean much. I get that. But seriously, I'm stunned that this didn't get a crazy wide release here, and that I've only ever heard about it now. Apologies if the board has seen this film before.

Watch the trailer. Go rent the film. Don't torrent it, these people need all the exposure they can get.


And the story. Oh my god the story.


#2



Wasabi Poptart

Were those black and white parts outtakes of the actors getting hurt or was that part of the movie?


#3

SpecialKO

SpecialKO

And for the people who didn't click Amy's link, it's also available on Netflix Watch It Now, so no physical rental necessary.

EDIT: And just to throw in my 2 cents, I would amend the "best martial arts film" statement of Amy's to be "best martial arts film that bring the PAIN", simply because Hero is the best martial arts film ever made. This one is more like Ong-bak (same choreographer and director) on steroids with a much better story and if Tony Jaa was a little girl. :p


#4

Cheesy1

Cheesy1

My brother and I saw this last year. Very brutal, very cool. And yes, the black and white parts are the outakes at the end. These guys fucked themselves up pretty good to make this movie.


#5



Wasabi Poptart

Holy crap.


#6



Cobra Star

Fantastic film. Watched it twice the same day I rented it.

No idea why I haven't gotten it on DVD yet.

Highly highly recommended.


#7



Element 117

TeKeo said:
And for the people who didn't click Amy's link, it's also available on Netflix Watch It Now, so no physical rental necessary.

EDIT: And just to throw in my 2 cents, I would amend the "best martial arts film" statement of Amy's to be "best martial arts film that bring the PAIN", simply [STRIKE]because Hero is the best martial arts film ever made. [/STRIKE] This one is more like Ong-bak (same choreographer and director) on steroids with a much better story and if Tony Jaa was a little girl. :p
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Yeah. Saw it. It had a buttload of known actors, and had zero emotional connection on the level that Chocolate: Fury did. Sorry, I stand by what I said, and hereby strike your entry from the record.-2 Credibility points. ;)


#8

Bowielee

Bowielee

I watched this when it was first released on Netflix. Yes, it is freakin awesome.


#9



Element 117

Man, she's in this too?

Yanin Vismistananda isn't as central in this scene, but.


#10

Null

Null

I thought Ong-Bak was awesome - not to mention having weapons-grade cute Pumawaree Yadkomol - and The Protector had some great scenes (though apparently Tony Jaa loves the 'boss fight' mentality in his films?) so I'm definitely willing to see this.

A martial arts movie without wire-fu and CGI'd everything? Yes please.


#11

Bowielee

Bowielee

I'm pretty sure there's really no CGI or even "wire fu" in Chocolate, just awesome choreography and acrobatics.


#12



Element 117

there were wires on the roof scenes, but hot damn.


#13

Bowielee

Bowielee

Xiaofang Nuren said:
there were wires on the roof scenes, but hot damn.
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Yeah, in case they fall, but they aren't really used to enhance acrobatics if I recall correctly.

Oh, well, I'll just have to watch it again to see :)


#14



Element 117

you're right, they were just safety ropes. And those poor blokes who did fall. ouch.

We need to start a North America Awareness campaign for this kid.


#15

Null

Null

I don't when martial arts movies use CGI to go way the fuck over the top - like ridiculously stupid, such as 'A Man Called Hero' or 'The Storm Riders'. Those are so absurd, it works. The scene with Sword Saint in particular was awesome. And of course extra points for the lovely Qi Shu.

But the style in the Bah-Ram-Ewe productions is preferable in most cases.


#16

SpecialKO

SpecialKO

Xiaofang Nuren;391474][QUOTE=TeKeo said:
And for the people who didn't click Amy's link, it's also available on Netflix Watch It Now, so no physical rental necessary.

EDIT: And just to throw in my 2 cents, I would amend the "best martial arts film" statement of Amy's to be "best martial arts film that bring the PAIN", simply [STRIKE]because Hero is the best martial arts film ever made. [/STRIKE] This one is more like Ong-bak (same choreographer and director) on steroids with a much better story and if Tony Jaa was a little girl. :p
Click to expand...
Yeah. Saw it. It had a buttload of known actors, and had zero emotional connection on the level that Chocolate: Fury did. Sorry, I stand by what I said, and hereby strike your entry from the record.-2 Credibility points. ;)[/QUOTE]

For most other wuxia films, I would agree, but Hero is the smartest, most beautiful martial arts film I've ever seen. The use of color schemes to develop the mood of the advancing storyline, the plot behind Jet Li's character, and the back-and-forth between him and the Emperor make this an incredible film, even beyond the martial arts. Perhaps it says something about me that I find a discussion about the responsibilities of dictatorial autocracies and the use of storytelling to gain favor and access compelling. :hmmm:


#17

Hailey Knight

Hailey Knight

TeKeo;391572][QUOTE=Xiaofang Nuren;391474][QUOTE=TeKeo said:
And for the people who didn't click Amy's link, it's also available on Netflix Watch It Now, so no physical rental necessary.

EDIT: And just to throw in my 2 cents, I would amend the "best martial arts film" statement of Amy's to be "best martial arts film that bring the PAIN", simply [STRIKE]because Hero is the best martial arts film ever made. [/STRIKE] This one is more like Ong-bak (same choreographer and director) on steroids with a much better story and if Tony Jaa was a little girl. :p
Click to expand...
Yeah. Saw it. It had a buttload of known actors, and had zero emotional connection on the level that Chocolate: Fury did. Sorry, I stand by what I said, and hereby strike your entry from the record.-2 Credibility points. ;)[/QUOTE]

For most other wuxia films, I would agree, but Hero is the smartest, most beautiful martial arts film I've ever seen. The use of color schemes to develop the mood of the advancing storyline, the plot behind Jet Li's character, and the back-and-forth between him and the Emperor make this an incredible film, even beyond the martial arts. Perhaps it says something about me that I find a discussion about the responsibilities of dictatorial autocracies and the use of storytelling to gain favor and access compelling. :hmmm:[/QUOTE]

I found Hero so boring, I didn't watch another martial arts film for almost 3 years. During the talking scenes, I was bored with the story and just waiting for the fight scenes to happen. But then during the fight scenes, I was bored and waiting for the talking scenes. Nothing endeared the characters, and the story was responsible about being clever, not about the judgments of its characters--I felt those were pretty simplistic and manipulative rather than intelligent. The movie look pretty and sounded pretty, but I felt it was hollow--or shallow, giving it the most substance credit possible.

I'll check this film out, though those black and white shots made me cringe.


#18

Null

Null

Hero was a very pretty movie, with a simplistic plot, little characterization, and mediocre fight scenes. House of Flying Daggers was downright melodramatic. Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon was pretty good, except the ending was pointlessly tragic.


#19

SpecialKO

SpecialKO

Null said:
Hero was a very pretty movie, with a simplistic plot, little characterization, and mediocre fight scenes.
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Er, what? Most of the stories were characterization. That was why they were interesting. The entire plot rested on the characterization of the assassins. Are you talking about the Tarantino cut of the movie, or something? Because what you're describing doesn't sound like the same movie at all to me.


#20

Hailey Knight

Hailey Knight

TeKeo;391678][QUOTE=Null said:
Hero was a very pretty movie, with a simplistic plot, little characterization, and mediocre fight scenes.
Click to expand...
Er, what? Most of the stories were characterization. That was why they were interesting. The entire plot rested on the characterization of the assassins. Are you talking about the Tarantino cut of the movie, or something? Because what you're describing doesn't sound like the same movie at all to me.[/QUOTE]

Tarantino's cut is the full, uncut film.


#21

SpecialKO

SpecialKO

escushion;391685][QUOTE=TeKeo;391678][QUOTE=Null said:
Hero was a very pretty movie, with a simplistic plot, little characterization, and mediocre fight scenes.
Click to expand...
Er, what? Most of the stories were characterization. That was why they were interesting. The entire plot rested on the characterization of the assassins. Are you talking about the Tarantino cut of the movie, or something? Because what you're describing doesn't sound like the same movie at all to me.[/QUOTE]

Tarantino's cut is the full, uncut film.[/QUOTE]

Then I truly have no clue what you're talking about re: characterization. I could get someone not liking the characterizations, or the story structure or the fights, or w/e, but right now I'm about as astounded as if someone had told me that L.A. Confidential didn't have any intrigue in it.


#22

Null

Null

Okay, describe the three main characters for me: Nameless, Broken Sword, and Flying Snow. Their role in the plot doesn't count.


#23

Hailey Knight

Hailey Knight

Ah, we're playing the RedLetterMedia Star Wars game. I'm a big fan of that. I look forward to answers.

Also can't describe their appearances.


#24

Null

Null

The what now? I'm just saying that if you're going to say a movie has strong characterization, you should be able to tell a lot about the characters.


#25

Bowielee

Bowielee

Null said:
The what now? I'm just saying that if you're going to say a movie has strong characterization, you should be able to tell a lot about the characters.
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It's the review by the drunk sounding guy of the prequels. The point that you can describe the characters in the original trilogy without referring to what they do, whereas in the prequels the characters are defined solely by their roles.


#26

Null

Null

Ahh, okay, didn't catch that.


#27

Wahad

Wahad

Broken Sword and Flying Snow can be described in at least two or three different ways, because the film relies on Unreliable Narrators in their description of them (and Long Sky). Nevertheless, let me make an attempt to fulfill your request, Null.

To be short, by the time of the movie. Broken Sword is the 'Iroh' (of Avatar: the Last Airbender fame) of the movie. (I'd give a word for it, but I can't think of a term at the moment, if it even exists). He has come to realize that peace in the land has priority over one man's needs. Flying Snow refuses to see this, signifying her bitterness over the death of her father at the hands of the Emperor's forces. She's the stereotypical vengeful person that lets revenge go before reason. Nameless starts out as this, as well, to the point of having devoted his life to one technique that would kill the Emperor without fail if his plan went off swimmingly - which it pretty much did - but he comes to realize that Broken Sword is right, which is when he gives up his vengeance for the sake of the country.

That's them in a nutshell. There's more, too, if you go into the narrations provided by Nameless and the Emperor. Were Sword and Sky selfless lovers, on a quest for honor when they made their assassination attempt? Or was Sword easily tempted by Moon, and Sky a jealous bitch? Are Sword and Nameless decent human beings for realizing peace in the world is important, or are they weak-willed for so easily giving up their goals, when both of them were only a sword's stroke away from achieving them? Is Sky devoted to the concept of familial honor or a misguided girl filled with hate?

You tell me.


#28

Hailey Knight

Hailey Knight

That's not what he asked for. He asked for a description of their personalities without mentioning their role in the plot. I'm going to link the section of the RedLetterMedia review of The Phantom Menace so everyone can see what is being asked for by the descriptions given of certain Star Wars characters:


Start at 6 minutes, 45 seconds for the relevant section.


#29

Wahad

Wahad

Oh, well. I did my best, even though I thought I mostly limited the plot relevance of the characters.

Back on the topic of Jeeja Yanin/Yanin Vismistananda, she's got some pretty crazy moves. She's probably gonna make it big in the movie martial arts scene (and she deserves it). I need to watch the movies still, but the youtube clips of the fights got me as a martial arts movies fan drooling.


#30

Null

Null

Wahad said:
Broken Sword and Flying Snow can be described in at least two or three different ways, because the film relies on Unreliable Narrators in their description of them (and Long Sky). Nevertheless, let me make an attempt to fulfill your request, Null.

That's them in a nutshell. There's more, too, if you go into the narrations provided by Nameless and the Emperor. Were Sword and Sky selfless lovers, on a quest for honor when they made their assassination attempt? Or was Sword easily tempted by Moon, and Sky a jealous bitch? Are Sword and Nameless decent human beings for realizing peace in the world is important, or are they weak-willed for so easily giving up their goals, when both of them were only a sword's stroke away from achieving them? Is Sky devoted to the concept of familial honor or a misguided girl filled with hate?

You tell me.
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And that's exactly what I mean by little characterization. After watching a movie, you should have some idea about the people's motivations and personalities, if characterization is a 'strength' of the film.


#31

SpecialKO

SpecialKO

Well, it's been quite some time since I saw the film, so maybe this will help since I don't remember the all the particulars of the plot. I'll do my best to keep that stuff out. I'm also putting it behind a spoiler tag, since I think figuring this folks out is a lot of the joy of watching the film.

Nameless - main character, incredibly-focused and single-minded. He's not given to rash action or words. He respects and admires spiritual perfection and clarity of purpose in others, but rejects anything, whether he admires it or not, that does not contribute to his worldview, after having considered it fully. He seems the kind of man who has sacrificed everything else in his life towards the achievement of a singular goal. He clearly believes in the "good of the many" as being an integral part of his worldview, so much so that he is incapable of truly fighting for himself. His "name" is an expression of that; he believes that who is truly doesn't matter, that the particulars of his life are not noteworthy, in the face of his purpose.

Broken Sword - At first, the audience is given to believe that Broken Sword is nothing more than a vain, broken fop. He's an artiste. Broken Sword is petulantly only interested in that which interests and benefits him that is right in front of him. He's supremely selfish, and his lack of desire towards deliberate action seems shaped just as much by his lack of desire to leave his playing as his belief that it will not achieve anything. We learn, over the course of the various narratives, that he is actually far more similar to Nameless than we would have thought: like Nameless, he does not do anything without a great deal of consideration. He's the tired voice of experience, and it's been a painful one. You get the impression that his worldview was dramatically changed in the past (obviously, it was, but I'm trying to keep plot stuff out), and his attempts to rebuild his worldview, combined with a tendency towards introspection and analysis, have greatly contributed towards the hesitancy that annoys his wife. He's holding on to his sanity by his fingertips, but is determined to not let it show, even though he knows he fails in this regard.

Flying Snow - She definitely got a bit of the shorter thrift, compared to the other two, since her character was clearly intended to be a foil for both Nameless and Broken Sword. She's extremely passionate in everything that she does, and shares Nameless' single-mindedness without either his or her husband's introspection. She wants what her life used to be, and is unwilling to let go of it, and sees her husband as both an obstacle to that life and partner in that life. Her lack of introspections contributes to her frustration, which she allows to boil up inside of her and erupt. She's portrayed as very unstable (though less so in her real life than in the initial narratives), and acts impulsively, without thinking.

Also, you forgot the Emperor, who I would actually consider to be the real co-main character of the film, with Nameless. He's guarded and suspicious, but somehow, he doesn't really seem paranoid; he clearly knows everyone is out to get him, and takes comfort in that, seeing it as affirmation of his true worth. He's a classic royal figure - surrounded by thousands, and utterly alone. He craves a level of companionship and friendship that his position denies him, but believes too much in his duty to allow himself to indulge. The audience could wonder how much of this belief is genuine; in direct opposition to Nameless' point of view, the Emperor's is incredibly self-serving. While Nameless assumes that his personal desires are immaterial before his purpose, the Emperor has the luxury of being able to claim that his are the one and the same, and he truly seems to be aware of this. He's not afraid of his own power, but as it increases, he's grown increasingly doubtful of his own motivations. He doesn't just want to be understood by others, he wants their understanding to help validate his own desires in his own mind.

I really wanted to go into some specifics, but you asked I keep the plot out, so I tried my best. Sorry for the ambiguous bits.


#32



Element 117

Zin: a honorable thief, fiercely protective of family; cruel, and also loving. Repentant sinner
Moom: Stressed street rat, thinks fast, and when push comes to shove bares his teeth. Likable everyman.
Musashi: Forsakes all he hold dear to love who he loves, no matter what the cost. Prodigal son
Sin: Cold, heartless, and the devil's right hand.
Number 8 Petty, cruel, and hateful. Classic asshole.

Zen: A fiery, single minded determined girl who learns fast, fights hard, and doesn't understand failure. Avenging angel.



#33

Krisken

Krisken

hah, I saw this 3 weeks ago on Netflix instant watch. Fucking fantastic movie. During that scene my mind just kept going "No fucking way... that is just too cool."


#34

Null

Null

TeKeo said:
Well, it's been quite some time since I saw the film, so maybe this will help since I don't remember the all the particulars of the plot. I'll do my best to keep that stuff out. I'm also putting it behind a spoiler tag, since I think figuring this folks out is a lot of the joy of watching the film.

I really wanted to go into some specifics, but you asked I keep the plot out, so I tried my best. Sorry for the ambiguous bits.
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Okay, I guess I stand corrected. I didn't get that much out of it.


#35



Philosopher B.

Xiaofang Nuren said:
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Lol, holy crap that looks awesome. I shall be see this movie post-hate.


#36

bhamv3

bhamv3

I'm not sure what that girl is after, but by this point I'd be inclined to just let her have it!


#37



Chibibar

RainWoman Kung-fu!


#38

SpecialKO

SpecialKO

Chibibar said:
RainWoman Kung-fu!
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The toothpick scene would have been epic had Tom Cruise tossed them all in the air and had Dustin Hoffman caught them all before they hit the ground.


#39

Covar

Covar

Hero was a boring piece of Chinese communist propaganda.

That trailer looked awesome, definitely going to try and watch it at some point.


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