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Thunder-ThunderCATS-NOOOOOOOOO!

#1



JCM





At least it doesnt seem as bad as the Wildstorm rape fanfiction that came out some years back.


#2

Bones

Bones

actually the art design is kinda pseudo-animeish, interesting to say the least.


#3

sixpackshaker

sixpackshaker

Bones said:
actually the art design is kinda pseudo-animeish, interesting to say the least.
Click to expand...
Kinda like the original. I hope it gets better.


#4

Bones

Bones

ahh co-produced by 4 degree studios, that would be a Japanese animation house. well sorry six-pack looks like you are screwed.


#5



Jiarn

The weapons are all still in tact, no annoying "kits" and no Snarf so far. Looks like it could even be an improvement!


#6

phil

phil

Fun fact: thundercats, like most 80s cartoons, was never that great to start with. It was just cool because you were 10. It can't actually get much worse.


#7

sixpackshaker

sixpackshaker

Bones said:
ahh co-produced by 4 degree studios, that would be a Japanese animation house. well sorry six-pack looks like you are screwed.
Click to expand...
I don't see how. It was animated in Japan the last time around, or does South Korea do better shows now?


#8



Biannoshufu

phil said:
Fun fact: thundercats, like most 80s cartoons, was never that great to start with. It was just cool because you were 10. It can't actually get much worse.
Click to expand...
ayep


#9

SpecialKO

SpecialKO

sixpackshaker said:
It was animated in Japan the last time around
Click to expand...
Surprisingly not a lot of people are aware of that, nor of that fact that the majority of the animation staff went on to join Studio Ghibli.


#10

Mathias

Mathias

The only well drawn out stories and animation in the 80's were found in The Real Ghostbusters.


#11

Tress

Tress

Mathias said:
The only well drawn out stories and animation in the 80's were found in The Real Ghostbusters.
Click to expand...
You mean like that one time a demon used Egon's soul as a trampoline?


#12



Jiarn

phil said:
Fun fact: thundercats, like most 80s cartoons, was never that great to start with. It was just cool because you were 10. It can't actually get much worse.
Click to expand...
Going to have to disagree with you there completely. While parts of it WERE fluff and filler, Transformers and Thundercats genuinely entertained and hold up well today (with a bit of nostalgia helping admittingly)


#13

sixpackshaker

sixpackshaker

I was watching Japanimation back then, and no, Transformers and Thundercats did not hold up well back then.... err, now.


#14



JCM

Thundercats, of tHe 80s toons, is still a good watch, as I went through the first season with my siblings just fine, although He-Man and Transformers havent aged well at all.


#15

Mathias

Mathias

Jiarn said:
Going to have to disagree with you there completely. While parts of it WERE fluff and filler, Transformers and Thundercats genuinely entertained and hold up well today (with a bit of nostalgia helping admittingly)
Click to expand...

Transformers was pretty much a 21 minute commercial.


(incidentally, the new movies are 2-3 hour long ones!)


#16

phil

phil

I have no idea what thundercats was even really about. The more I think about it the more I think mum-rah was the only human left on earth, so shouldn't we root for him?


#17

Baerdog

Baerdog

The new Panthro reminds me of Jet from Cowboy Bebop. That...is not a bad thing.


#18

SpecialKO

SpecialKO

Also Lion-O actually looks like a child in an adult's body, like the character is supposed to.


#19

sixpackshaker

sixpackshaker

Baerdog said:
The new Panthro reminds me of Jet from Cowboy Bebop. That...is not a bad thing.
Click to expand...
I agree, when that pic first popped, I actually thought it was Jet till I saw the cat-coloration...


#20

ScytheRexx

ScytheRexx

I... I actually want to watch this.

I actually like the fact they made the characters more pronounced and unique in design. One of the complaints I always have looking back at the old show was that the body type of all the adult males was the same "super brawn". Even characters that shouldn't have been that way like Lion-O, who somehow grew triple his muscle mass while in cryo stasis.

I will have to keep my eye on this, maybe it will turn out better when what people are expecting.


#21

Green_Lantern

Green_Lantern

I looks awesome, my only complain is Lion-O her looking too animesque, but still is better than that the original.


#22

Null

Null

This actually makes me want to see it. There are definitely some touches of Cowboy Bebop in the look (Cheetara definitely has some hints of Faye Valentine there) and that's never a bad thing.

I feel bad for mentioning or even remembering this, but no, the Earth that the Thundercats landed on from Thundara wasn't our own Terra. It was called "Third Earth", meaning it was probably a very earth-like colony. So, no, Mum-Rah was not the last human on Earth - he was some alien humanoid creature. Also, the episode where Lion-O met a samurai who was duped by Mum-Rah into thinking he was the enemy? That guy was apparently human.

About Lion-O - he was supposed to have gone into Cryo-statis before puberty - let's say he was 13 years old equivalent, and the others were in their early twenties or higher. Three years or so biological aging means he'd emerge at 16-equivalent, while the rest would just be a bit closer to 30 or 40 - not a huge difference in most cases. Lion-O would have grown a lot. So he would be a physical adult with a more childish psyche. And I think that new look represents that well - someone at the tail end of adolescence, rather that a fully mature man.


#23

Green_Lantern

Green_Lantern

^You know, if they keep you from developing muscular atrophy they probably can help to build muscular mass too.


#24

Mathias

Mathias

Null said:
This actually makes me want to see it. There are definitely some touches of Cowboy Bebop in the look (Cheetara definitely has some hints of Faye Valentine there) and that's never a bad thing.
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Where in the hell do you see porn actress in there?


#25

Baerdog

Baerdog

Not that Faye Valentine.


#26



Jiarn

Mathias said:
Where in the hell do you see porn actress in there?
Click to expand...
Baerdog said:
Not that Faye Valentine.
Click to expand...
Yeah this Faye Valentine:



#27

Null

Null

Impractically short jacket? Check. Super-cleavage? Check. Face framed by bangs on each side? Check. Is it a direct copy of the character? No, obviously not. But they do have common elements of design beyond the obvious.


#28

AshburnerX

AshburnerX

Looks like we know what the new Snarf looks like. Doesn't look half bad actually. Much more animal like now.


#29

Green_Lantern

Green_Lantern

AshburnerX said:
Looks like we know what the new Snarf looks like. Doesn't look half bad actually. Much more animal like now.
Click to expand...
I was hoping that he would be let out of this cartoon.


#30

sixpackshaker

sixpackshaker

Snarf is one of the best examples of what is wrong with cartoons.


#31



Jiarn

First step in the wrong direction....


#32

Cajungal

Cajungal

D'aww.... he haz a cute, though. Maybe.... MAYBE... he'll be less annoying. Maybe he won't talk!!! :D


#33

fade

fade

I've watched the originals fairly recently... I have to disagree with the whole "it's only because you were 10" thing. They're still not too bad. Same with the original He-Man.

I hope this doesn't go the same route as He-Man. I was really getting into the new He-Man, enjoying the new darker stories, the internal strife between Evil-Lyn and Skeletor, and the fact that Adam was actually thin, and BOOM! cancellation.


#34

AshburnerX

AshburnerX

Yeah, but that got canceled because no one except the adult collectors were buying the toys, which is the whole reason they brought the show back. You want this show to succeed? Then pray that the toyline is AWESOME.


#35

Cajungal

Cajungal

Man, I remember there was a race of robot bears. How did they reproduce?


#36

AshburnerX

AshburnerX

Cajungal said:
Man, I remember there was a race of robot bears. How did they reproduce?
Click to expand...
You put the male end of the plug into the female end of the outlet, then turn on the power.


#37

figmentPez

figmentPez

Cajungal said:
Man, I remember there was a race of robot bears. How did they reproduce?
Click to expand...
You see, CG, when a daddy robot bear and a mamma robot bear love each other very much, they pray real hard and then a Silverhawk delivers a little bundle of joy...


#38

Cajungal

Cajungal

figmentPez said:
You see, CG, when a daddy robot bear and a mamma robot bear love each other very much, they pray real hard and then a Silverhawk delivers a little bundle of joy...
Click to expand...
I think my iPhone and my laptop love each other very much. This morning I found a swaddled external hard drive nestled between them.


#39

Allen who is Quiet

Allen who is Quiet

Cajungal said:
Man, I remember there was a race of robot bears. How did they reproduce?
Click to expand...
Correct answer: A lot of grinning and bearing it.


#40

fade

fade

Cajungal said:
Man, I remember there was a race of robot bears. How did they reproduce?
Click to expand...
Accessing USB port.
INPUT
OUTPUT
INPUT
OUTPUT
INPUT
...

DOWNLOAD.
Added at: 17:33
He's so fast because it's USB 3.0. Which I hear the male verbles (sp?) love, but the ladies aren't too happy with.r


#41

Cajungal

Cajungal

Haaaaa! :D


#42

Fun Size

Fun Size

You guys, this is where furries get their start.

We can not support such things!

(That reminds me, where the Hell is Pojo?)


#43

Norris

Norris

AshburnerX said:
Yeah, but that got canceled because no one except the adult collectors were buying the toys, which is the whole reason they brought the show back. You want this show to succeed? Then pray that the toyline is AWESOME.
Click to expand...
Minor correction - the toyline (and therefore cartoon and comic) was canceled because it was not well managed. Case ratios ridiculously favored variants of He-Man and Skeletor, meaning it was next to impossible for people to find any new figures. Sales with kids weren't stellar, but the selection of toys for the kids to buy played a HUGE role in that,

*was a member (and later moderator) of the He-Man.org Message Boards from 2003-2008 and watched the whole franchise revival crash and burn under what can only be called mismanagement*


#44

HCGLNS

HCGLNS

So it's free preview month and I am watching all the old 80's cartoons, and damn are they bad. I mean just ridiculously awful.


#45

GasBandit

GasBandit

sixpackshaker said:
Snarf is one of the best examples of what is wrong with cartoons.
Click to expand...
I think the trope name for this is "The Scrappy."


#46

Null

Null

Cajungal said:
Man, I remember there was a race of robot bears. How did they reproduce?
Click to expand...
I think they were cyborgs, meaning there was still some... "wetware" to work with.


#47

Piotyr

Piotyr

HCGLNS said:
So it's free preview month and I am watching all the old 80's cartoons, and damn are they bad. I mean just ridiculously awful.
Click to expand...
Thundercats specifically, or all of the shows?

The only part I really remember of Thundercats was the trials of Liono, which I thought were cool at the time.


#48

HCGLNS

HCGLNS

Piotyr said:
Thundercats specifically, or all of the shows?
Click to expand...
Gave it a few more nights and yes, all the 80's cartoons hold up very poorly, both from an artistic and storyline point of view.


#49

fade

fade

Man, I still disagree. I don't know why, but I dig the rotoscoping on He-Man.


#50

HCGLNS

HCGLNS

The rotoscoping was part of the art that I found to be so bad. Not that the technique itself is bad, but that it was so poorly applied. The characters often looked like they were hovering mid-scene over stock backgrounds. Just a compilation of front shots repeatedly overlaid over a compilation of backgrounds, it really destroyed any sense of depth.


#51

GasBandit

GasBandit

Yeah, and that clock in that Salvador Dali painting? It melted over that wall... clocks don't do that! Even if you did heat up a clock to the point it would melt, it would not melt in that particular fashion! And likely it would have set the branches of that tree on fire. It just totally ruined that painting for me.


#52



Jiarn

80s Cartoons should have had 2000s style animation or they suck!


#53

Green_Lantern

Green_Lantern

GasBandit said:
Yeah, and that clock in that Salvador Dali painting? It melted over that wall... clocks don't do that! Even if you did heat up a clock to the point it would melt, it would not melt in that particular fashion! And likely it would have set the branches of that tree on fire. It just totally ruined that painting for me.
Click to expand...
My world has just been reshaped by that revelation, there was just confortim in knowing that a clock could melt like a candle.


#54

AshburnerX

AshburnerX

Just saw this...



I think it may be a bit too... serious.


#55

Green_Lantern

Green_Lantern

AshburnerX said:
Just saw this...



I think it may be a bit too... serious.
Click to expand...
I think you meant too awesome \o/


#56

fade

fade

Cheetara has cleavage. I feel as though a thousand fanbois just cried out and were suddenly masturbating.
Added at: 18:05
Also, is that Snarf being all actiony?


#57

SpecialKO

SpecialKO

It looked like Snarf hiding behind someone's leg, not talking, to me.


#58

sixpackshaker

sixpackshaker

I think that was a fat guy with a knife fighting Lion-o. That looked a little like the old Snarf.


#59



Jiarn

I have to say, I'm enjoying the direction. Though curious why they didn't follow the Mumbra/stranded on a strange planet storyline. If you're not going to do that, why bother using established characters?


#60

SpecialKO

SpecialKO

Prequel?


#61

Cajungal

Cajungal

Kiiiiinda looks neat. :)


#62

drifter

drifter

Pretty sure I saw Mumm-Ra at the 15 sec mark, so he's at least included. Looks interesting. I think I'd actually prefer a reboot, but who knows what the actual storyline is going to be.

-edit-

I'd guess most of y'all have heard it before, but I just remembered this:



#63

fade

fade

sixpackshaker said:
I think that was a fat guy with a knife fighting Lion-o. That looked a little like the old Snarf.
Click to expand...
Aww. I was hoping Snarf would kick ass. Aren't they making him all anime-cute and speechless in this?
Added at: 22:50
Ah I see the actual Snarf now.


#64



Jiarn

Hm, I saw the flash of Mum-ra this time, but that's about it. I'm really curious about the storyline now.


#65

GasBandit

GasBandit

Darker and Edgier. Formerly known as GrimDark.


#66

Null

Null

I'm going to watch this.


#67

sixpackshaker

sixpackshaker

I'll give it a look, even though I was not a fan of the original.


#68

evilmike

evilmike



#69

ScytheRexx

ScytheRexx

You know I remember when I was telling myself Transformers Animated was going to suck, and I ended up loving it. I am going to give this show a chance.


#70

TNM

TNM

No Panthro in either trailer makes me sad.


#71

fade

fade

I can't decide whether it's cool or racist that they made the original Panthro black.


#72

Cajungal

Cajungal

Can't it be both?


#73

drifter

drifter

Wait, what would be the argument for it being racist?


#74

Baerdog

Baerdog

TNM said:
No Panthro in either trailer makes me sad.
Click to expand...
They need to give the other characters a chance to look cool before Panthro comes along and blows them all out of the water.


#75



Jiarn

At least we know for sure he's in the series thanks to the first post.


#76

fade

fade

drifter said:
Wait, what would be the argument for it being racist?
Click to expand...
The assumption that a black cat has to be a black person.


#77

drifter

drifter

fade said:
The assumption that a black cat has to be a black person.
Click to expand...
Why you gotta assume a panther has to be black?



But honestly, that never even occurred to me.


#78



Jiarn

fade said:
The assumption that a black cat has to be a black person.
Click to expand...
Sometimes they're mastadons....


#79

fade

fade

drifter said:
Why you gotta assume a panther has to be black?



But honestly, that never even occurred to me.
Click to expand...
Not even with an entire organization called The Black Panthers? That's the first thing that comes to my mind.


#80

drifter

drifter

Nope. Again, never crossed my mind until you mentioned it. I suppose part of it is that I was young when I was first exposed to Thundercats; I never thought of Panthro as being black, he was just Panthro, and my image of him has largely stayed that way. I guess it's just one of those things where my experiences as a child never commingled with adult perspective.

Or I'm just dumb. That's probably a safer bet.


#81



Jiarn



Felt that was relevant.


#82

Tress

Tress

Wow. Ballsy.


#83

Cajungal

Cajungal

drifter said:
Nope. Again, never crossed my mind until you mentioned it. I suppose part of it is that I was young when I was first exposed to Thundercats; I never thought of Panthro as being black, he was just Panthro, and my image of him has largely stayed that way. I guess it's just one of those things where my experiences as a child never commingled with adult perspective.

Or I'm just dumb. That's probably a safer bet.
Click to expand...
I didn't think of it that way when I was a kid either.


#84

AshburnerX

AshburnerX

Cajungal said:
I didn't think of it that way when I was a kid either.
Click to expand...
Wasn't Panthro... blueish? Or was my TV just really shitty back then?


#85

fade

fade

I mean, I didn't care when I was a kid. This is definitely retrospective.


#86

drifter

drifter

Yeah, I assume pretty much everyone was like that as a kid. It's just somewhat odd that I am unable to look back on it through the prism of experience and make the connection. I'd ramble on about it as I think it's an interesting topic, but my attempts to collect my thoughts into a coherent whole aren't turning out too well.


#87

Piotyr

Piotyr

I'll just leave this here...



#88

Baerdog

Baerdog

Still didn't see any Panthro. :(


#89

chris

chris

Yeah, I somehow expected that Panthro comes out of a shadow at the end of the video.


#90

evilmike

evilmike

One cool cat:
http://www.hulu.com/watch/252016/late-night-with-jimmy-fallon-panthros-thundercats-song#s-p2-sr-i1


#91

figmentPez

figmentPez

Starts tonight on Cartoon Network. I'm going to give it a shot, anyone else?


#92

General Specific

General Specific

I watched it last night and it wasn't bad. I like the redesigns of the characters and the new back stories.


#93



BErt

Watched this tonight. I dug it.

Snarf is much cooler now that he doesn't snarf-talk. Also:

I got a chuckle at the lack of Panthro after reading this thread

I will keep watching this.


#94

figmentPez

figmentPez

I kinda thought there was way too much stupid going around. Characters were behaving in really dumb ways just to advance the plot.

Despite that, I enjoyed it. There were some witty moments, and the animation was pretty good.


#95

ScytheRexx

ScytheRexx

Finally had a chance to watch it myself. Really like what they are going with so far, with the focus being more on the fantasy of the mythos, making the characters back stories more intertwined. It has a few things I didn't like, but overall I think it would be a series I will check out when I have the time.


#96

fade

fade

Holy crap, apparently I wasn't the only one who made the Panthro/black connection. Look at the search terms that lead to this thread.

Also, is this Studio 9 related at all to the studio that produces Naruto? Cheetara and Lion-o look very similar to Sakura and Sasuke.


#97

drifter

drifter

You mean Studio 4°C? It's fairly possible that they've worked with Studio Pierrot, although I'm pretty sure they are not officially connected. That said, as far as i can tell the new character designs were done by an American by the name of Dan Norton (I believe this is his deviantArt page, if you're curious).


#98

ScytheRexx

ScytheRexx

The last episode was a bit disappointing. I felt it was a poor follow-up to the first two episodes and relied to much on the allusions to Moby Dick.

For instance it was shown in the first episodes that Tygra and Lion-O have some small animosity due to Lion-O being the heir to the throne and Tygra being more skilled in combat. That was not shown in the slightest, even though Lion-O was being an over obsessive douche.

Also, why does Lion-O care so much about avenging his father when it seems his whole people possibly went extinct? I mean we see a bunch escaping into the lower tunnels but then the entrance gets bombed and we are never told if those people survived. Does he not care to look for them and see if some people are trapped down there? I can understand in the first show because the whole planet exploded, but you would think they would have a few more survivors even after the city gets bombed.

I think I can see what people say with the personalities seeming a bit forced. The ThunderKittens for instance seen way to upbeat for just watching their home city burn to the ground, even looting cloths of possible dead Thundercat children. They join almost as an afterthought in the beginning, with no real build-up and never really showing they have any ability outside of biting a tentacle and outsmarting a cook. Yet Lion-O gets all "They have proven themselves!" at the end like they actually did something impressive.

Oh well, hopefully the next episode will be a bit better and feel less like it was filler. I don't like to see episodes that feel like filler so early in a season.


#99



Chibibar

ScytheRexx said:
The last episode was a bit disappointing. I felt it was a poor follow-up to the first two episodes and relied to much on the allusions to Moby Dick.

For instance it was shown in the first episodes that Tygra and Lion-O have some small animosity due to Lion-O being the heir to the throne and Tygra being more skilled in combat. That was not shown in the slightest, even though Lion-O was being an over obsessive douche.

Also, why does Lion-O care so much about avenging his father when it seems his whole people possibly went extinct? I mean we see a bunch escaping into the lower tunnels but then the entrance gets bombed and we are never told if those people survived. Does he not care to look for them and see if some people are trapped down there? I can understand in the first show because the whole planet exploded, but you would think they would have a few more survivors even after the city gets bombed.

I think I can see what people say with the personalities seeming a bit forced. The ThunderKittens for instance seen way to upbeat for just watching their home city burn to the ground, even looting cloths of possible dead Thundercat children. They join almost as an afterthought in the beginning, with no real build-up and never really showing they have any ability outside of biting a tentacle and outsmarting a cook. Yet Lion-O gets all "They have proven themselves!" at the end like they actually did something impressive.

Oh well, hopefully the next episode will be a bit better and feel less like it was filler. I don't like to see episodes that feel like filler so early in a season.
Click to expand...
yea. They kinda "force that part"
I think the rest of the cats are killed (off screen) or they are trying to avoid showing a lot of death other than the King. remember this is a kid show. The network thinks the kids can't handle THAT many death, especially if they are children and such. (that is my opinion)

The 2nd episode did went by "real quick" but Lion-O is trying to "grow up real fast" from tinkerer/fun guy to leader that his father wants him to be. I think the show will try to make him grow more and mix the two (hopefully) Right now Lion-O is angry and irrational)


#100

ScytheRexx

ScytheRexx

Just saw the latest episode, I liked it a lot more then the third one, and I am starting to dig the whole premise of them going off on a quest and changing the lives of the people they meet while doing it.

I really like what they did with the plant people, and how they aged at a different rate. It was a little cheesy the whole "It's the journey, not the destination" and the whole "life is what you make it" type of sentiments, but they worked well I felt. The only thing that is still weirding me out is the fact that Slythe is in charge of basically a massive lizard army rather then the mutants, which don't exist now.

Plus... Panthro and the Thundertank, fuck yeah!


#101

AshburnerX

AshburnerX

I think a lot of the changes they made to the series really help to simplify things. It makes the series easier to follow as a whole.


#102

ScytheRexx

ScytheRexx

I think I mostly like it because it has a consistent plot. The old show was basically the Thundercats living on a new planet and going on random adventures without any real focus. Bad guy tries to do something bad, Thundercats stop them, repeat. The new one, they always have a set focus, and the villains don't feel like they are just hanging around waiting for the next episode but are actually chasing the Thundercats or the Book of Omens. It really makes you want to tune in next time.


#103

fade

fade

One thing I never got when I was a kid was what are the mutants mutants of?


#104

Norris

Norris

This show could do well to learn to a little subtlety, because Lion-O is coming off as a little unstable. "Let's avenge dad, OK let's find the Book of Omens, life is pointless and we're all gonna die, let's help these plant people, I should appreciate the time I have, let's go on a suicide mission!"

It's good, but Lion-O really...just comes off as uneven.


#105

SpecialKO

SpecialKO

Norris said:
It's good, but Lion-O really...just comes off as uneven.
Click to expand...
He's a teenager, they're all uneven. ;)


#106

AshburnerX

AshburnerX

Norris said:
This show could do well to learn to a little subtlety, because Lion-O is coming off as a little unstable. "Let's avenge dad, OK let's find the Book of Omens, life is pointless and we're all gonna die, let's help these plant people, I should appreciate the time I have, let's go on a suicide mission!"

It's good, but Lion-O really...just comes off as uneven.
Click to expand...
His Dad is dead, he's now the king, his kingdom burned to the ground, he has an army of lizardfolk on his ass and he's basically the only hope for stopping the evil mummy monster that wants to enslave the world. Shouldn't he be a bit uneven?


#107

Norris

Norris

Fair enough, I guess. It just bugged me how he went from "self preservingly depressed" to "suicidally optimistic" this week, having gone from "Ahab-like thirst for vengeance" to "appreciative of his companions" in the last episode.


#108

ScytheRexx

ScytheRexx

Norris said:
Fair enough, I guess. It just bugged me how he went from "self preservingly depressed" to "suicidally optimistic" this week, having gone from "Ahab-like thirst for vengeance" to "appreciative of his companions" in the last episode.
Click to expand...
I agree, but I think what each episode is going to be about is Lion-O feeling certain negative emotions, and then through his adventures coming to terms with each of them. Episode 3 was anger and obsessiveness, Episode 4 was depression and loss of hope. Where I think they are going wrong is that they are going TO FAST with these. He shouldn't learn a lesson in the span of a single episode, and thus each of his lessons feels quick and erratic. In the old Thundercats it took a few episodes for Lion-O to get over most of his childishness, and yet this new one he went from childish curiosity to revenge fueled to almost scared and hopeless.

Really, I sometimes feel that Tygra also suffers from erratic personality, and I am STILL waiting for the Thunderkittens to actually be useful. Last episode the most useful thing they did was throw fruit at a lizardman, but during the actual "attack" we see them run in, then run away. They didn't even get a "beat up all these lizardmen" scene like the adults.

P.S Anyone notice that Tygra, at the beginning, used his classic whip, but now that the show is underway he uses a pistol like some marksman? It's hilarious, because he never stops using that gun now.


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