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Waters of Mars

#1

evilmike

evilmike

The latest Doctor Who special has aired.

I imagine if someone were so inclined, they might be able to find it "out of region". In theory, of course.


#2



Rubicon

FUCK ME I FORGOT


#3

figmentPez

figmentPez

I've heard rumors the BBC is trying to work out taking their internet player international, hopefully they'll do that soon.


#4



KarateKidMcFly

Oh man, finally! Can't wait to see this!


#5

twitchmoss

twitchmoss

that was...surprisingly dark. not necessarily the monsters, who were sufficiently creepy... but the last 15 minutes. namely
The timelord victorious
and
adelaides suicide

but goddamn that preview.
my name... is the master! *evil laughing* brainy ood! 'we have been having bad dreams' donna!

damn it, i don't want to wait a month!


#6



TotalFusionOne

HOLY.

FUCKING.

SHIT.

Although I saw it ending differently. I saw it as The Doctor becoming The Master.


#7

Covar

Covar

Waiting until Dec 19.

Thanks for the Spoiler tags guys.


#8



TotalFusionOne

Why would you wait until then?

... And why would you open a thread called "Waters of Mars" if you're a Doctor Who fan who is plannning on waiting for whatever reason?


#9



KarateKidMcFly

Is it sad that, right after the shuttle back to Earth blows up, I turned to my brother, and ask "There isn't enough oxygen on Mars for fire to burn like that, is there?"

But besides that WOW. Oh, WOW. That was amazing. I can't wait till the next one. Just.... WOW.


#10



Rubicon

WTF was that??!?

It was both great and very disturbing at the same time...like..what the frak just happened?!..

The Doctor is going insane :( The loneliness and guilt caught up to him..he's gone mad..delusional mad.. oh god please don't let him go batshit insane please..

And The Master?! fucking, sweet.

I am going to miss David so much :(


#11



Biardo

wow, just wow!

can't wait till the next one

my theory (half assed) is that he really is going to die or turn evil and the other doctor, the doctor spin-off, is going to take his place. Maybe, I don't know just a thought.


#12

Bowielee

Bowielee

Biardo said:
wow, just wow!

can't wait till the next one

my theory (half assed) is that he really is going to die or turn evil and the other doctor, the doctor spin-off, is going to take his place. Maybe, I don't know just a thought.
Click to expand...
I can't see that happening.
The new doctor will have to be a regeneration of the Doctor, or it's not the same character. And it's not a spin off, it's a continuation of the series. ;) Regeneration was the best idea that the writers of the original series came up with. It allows the show to go on indefinitely. In the trailer, they show the same actor who played the Master, so it looks like the master is returning. Should be pretty good. How they're going to get Donna back into it, I don't know, seeing as if she remembers anything about her time with the Doctor, it will fry her brain.

Also, to whoever said it, why the heck would you wait until December to watch this episode? Doesn't make any sense to me.


#13



Skinny Santa

I am quite possibly more excited for the new Dr. Who then for Christmas itself....

Any news on when the 11th doctor serials start?

Also anyone have any thoughts on the 13 reincarnations thing? The Master got around it somehow and I'm sure they'll find something just interested on how the writers will finagle it if it ever comes up.


#14



TwoBit

Woah. That was way more awesome than I was expecting.

The time lord victorious bit was interesting. It kinda showed that once the doctor fully realized what power he had over time he started to let that power go to his head.

Can't wait until December.


#15



Rubicon

Skinny Santa said:
I am quite possibly more excited for the new Dr. Who then for Christmas itself....

Any news on when the 11th doctor serials start?

Also anyone have any thoughts on the 13 reincarnations thing? The Master got around it somehow and I'm sure they'll find something just interested on how the writers will finagle it if it ever comes up.
Click to expand...
Season 31 (or Series 5) starts spring 2010

The Master got around it because A) he had his regenerations reset and B) the Time Lords brought him back to help fight in the Time War against the Daleks but he ran away.


#16

Covar

Covar

TotalFusionOne said:
Why would you wait until then?

... And why would you open a thread called "Waters of Mars" if you're a Doctor Who fan who is plannning on waiting for whatever reason?
Click to expand...
I got into Doctor Who when they started airing the new series on Sci-fi, Always watched it on TV with a friend of mine. I don't mind waiting since the show is always worth it.

I opened this thread to get spoiler free reactions. You guys have not dissapointed, definitely looking forward to it now.


#17



Veteran

Amorous Vyxen;300659][quote=Skinny Santa said:
Any news on when the 11th doctor serials start?
Click to expand...
You are gonna be in for a long wait.

The next two-part special will air on December 25th, 2009 "Nightmares Reign (1)" & January 1st, 2010 "The End of Time (2)", both by Russel T. Davies. I haven't seen a confirmed date yet for the new season but I've seen April 1st, 2010 being reported. Steven Moffat then takes over with "Born" which will be the first official episode with the new regeneration.

So yeah, gonna be a while. v.v[/QUOTE]

Don't know where you've got 'Nightmares Reign' from. The title for the 1st of the Christmas specials is rumoured to be six words long.

A clip from the 1st Christmas special will be shown during Children in Need this Friday. Woo!


#18

figmentPez

figmentPez

Really enjoyed this episode, and I'm always willing to suspend my disbelief for the Doctor, but one thing puzzled me:

Why didn't the Doctor just evacuate the crew to another planet or time? Take them somewhere and help them get new identities. Doctor saves their lives, History still considers them dead, win-win. The whole Mars base was destroyed by an explosion, it's not like their remains need to be there.


#19



WolfOfOdin

figmentPez said:
Really enjoyed this episode, and I'm always willing to suspend my disbelief for the Doctor, but one thing puzzled me:

Why didn't the Doctor just evacuate the crew to another planet or time? Take them somewhere and help them get new identities. Doctor saves their lives, History still considers them dead, win-win. The whole Mars base was destroyed by an explosion, it's not like their remains need to be there.
Click to expand...

He was hit in the head with his timey-wimey ball and forgot


#20



Rubicon

figmentPez said:
Really enjoyed this episode, and I'm always willing to suspend my disbelief for the Doctor, but one thing puzzled me:

Why didn't the Doctor just evacuate the crew to another planet or time? Take them somewhere and help them get new identities. Doctor saves their lives, History still considers them dead, win-win. The whole Mars base was destroyed by an explosion, it's not like their remains need to be there.
Click to expand...
Timey wimey wibbledly wobbly stuff prevents that.

If the Doctor simply re-established them somewhere else, even some place remote and such, they are still affecting the timeline. Maybe one the new planet they might be relocated to, they interact with a local species and spark a war, which may affect other planets, and may affect history / the time line.


#21

Bowielee

Bowielee

figmentPez said:
Really enjoyed this episode, and I'm always willing to suspend my disbelief for the Doctor, but one thing puzzled me:

Why didn't the Doctor just evacuate the crew to another planet or time? Take them somewhere and help them get new identities. Doctor saves their lives, History still considers them dead, win-win. The whole Mars base was destroyed by an explosion, it's not like their remains need to be there.
Click to expand...
I think the whole point was that he pretty much snapped. He didn't care about the consequences and wanted to prove that he could muck about with the timeline at his own whim. And as learned in the Pompae episode, no matter what he does, the fixed moment in time remains fixed.


#22

figmentPez

figmentPez

Bowielee;302241][quote=figmentPez said:
Really enjoyed this episode, and I'm always willing to suspend my disbelief for the Doctor, but one thing puzzled me:

Why didn't the Doctor just evacuate the crew to another planet or time? Take them somewhere and help them get new identities. Doctor saves their lives, History still considers them dead, win-win. The whole Mars base was destroyed by an explosion, it's not like their remains need to be there.
Click to expand...
I think the whole point was that he pretty much snapped. He didn't care about the consequences and wanted to prove that he could muck about with the timeline at his own whim. And as learned in the Pompae episode, no matter what he does, the fixed moment in time remains fixed.
[/QUOTE]

But the moment isn't totally fixed. The Doctor did rescue two of the people from Mars, and in Pompeii the events didn't happen as the Doctor thought they were going to. That event in history, and it's major effects, had to remain the same, but not the exact details.

Now that I think about it, this is a snap that's been coming for a while. His resignation before the snap wasn't the Doctor thinking clearly, either. If he'd still been in good spirits, He might have tried to save them while maintaining the apparent timeline (I don't buy the "they might start a war elsewhere" thing because the Doctor changes history all the time. The Mars mission leader's past was already changed by the Daleks, and that didn't change her present/future on Mars, so why would her further-future not be able to be altered as well? It's the events on Mars that matter, and their perception by History, not what happens elsewhere to the same people), but the Doctor has been in a downward spiral for a while now, growing more distant and isolated. His attempt to be the Time Lord Victorious was just a switch from depressed to manic, not the point where he went off the rails.


#23

Bowielee

Bowielee

figmentPez;302580][quote=Bowielee;302241][quote=figmentPez said:
Really enjoyed this episode, and I'm always willing to suspend my disbelief for the Doctor, but one thing puzzled me:

Why didn't the Doctor just evacuate the crew to another planet or time? Take them somewhere and help them get new identities. Doctor saves their lives, History still considers them dead, win-win. The whole Mars base was destroyed by an explosion, it's not like their remains need to be there.
Click to expand...
I think the whole point was that he pretty much snapped. He didn't care about the consequences and wanted to prove that he could muck about with the timeline at his own whim. And as learned in the Pompae episode, no matter what he does, the fixed moment in time remains fixed.
[/quote]

But the moment isn't totally fixed. The Doctor did rescue two of the people from Mars, and in Pompeii the events didn't happen as the Doctor thought they were going to. That event in history, and it's major effects, had to remain the same, but not the exact details.

Now that I think about it, this is a snap that's been coming for a while. His resignation before the snap wasn't the Doctor thinking clearly, either. If he'd still been in good spirits, He might have tried to save them while maintaining the apparent timeline (I don't buy the "they might start a war elsewhere" thing because the Doctor changes history all the time. The Mars mission leader's past was already changed by the Daleks, and that didn't change her present/future on Mars, so why would her further-future not be able to be altered as well? It's the events on Mars that matter, and their perception by History, not what happens elsewhere to the same people), but the Doctor has been in a downward spiral for a while now, growing more distant and isolated. His attempt to be the Time Lord Victorious was just a switch from depressed to manic, not the point where he went off the rails.
[/QUOTE]

In this instance, the death of the captain was the fixed point in time. She would have died no matter what he did. The point was that he thought that he beat time, but in the end, things progressed as they should have. Yes, he has been clear in the past that he mucks about with time all the time, but never with fixed points in time. In pompei, he was unable to stop it. He was unable to alter the fixed point in time.

Part of the snap was to show that he was wrong to think that he could alter the fixed point in time. In the past he had always been pretty clear that a fixed point in time can't be changed completely. Again, it was the death of the captain, not the destruction of the Mars base that was the fixed point in time.


#24

figmentPez

figmentPez

Bowielee said:
In this instance, the death of the captain was the fixed point in time. She would have died no matter what he did. The point was that he thought that he beat time, but in the end, things progressed as they should have. Yes, he has been clear in the past that he mucks about with time all the time, but never with fixed points in time. In pompei, he was unable to stop it. He was unable to alter the fixed point in time.

Part of the snap was to show that he was wrong to think that he could alter the fixed point in time. In the past he had always been pretty clear that a fixed point in time can't be changed completely. Again, it was the death of the captain, not the destruction of the Mars base that was the fixed point in time.
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I don't think it was her death, but her death's impact on her granddaughter, and the subsequent generations of humans. Her daughter would have been effected the same way if she'd been presumed dead on Mars as if she'd actually died there.


#25

Calleja

Calleja

Why the fading ood at the end, though?


#26

figmentPez

figmentPez

Calleja said:
Why the fading ood at the end, though?
Click to expand...
Setup for the next episode.


#27

Calleja

Calleja

So it's normal it just baffled me?


#28



TwoBit

Baffled me too. Hope it becomes clear when the next special rolls around.


#29



Iaculus

Had the usual Davies heavy-handedness, but still quite an impressive 'holy shit' episode.

There were a number of small, stylistic issues that steadily built up into genuine grumble-worthiness simply by their frequency. Perhaps it's my inner proofreader coming out - gods know I've been excercising it a lot lately. For instance, I would have preferred it if they'd simply ended it before the weird Oody 'what have I done?' sequence, simply because the instant remorseful snapback was slightly jarring given that he has been steadily going off his nut. Just his horrified expression as he realised what had happened would have sufficed. Likewise, I can think of a half-dozen better counters to his little megalomaniacal rant than 'The Doctor Victorious is wrong!'

Things I liked? The Doc getting called out on his rather questionable decisions for once ('little people'? Thank you, Russell), and Murray Gold, the series composer, being his usual awesome self. I swear, I was squealing like a little schoolgirl when it was not only the Doctor who made a comeback in the last quarter, but also music incorporating part of the most badass piece ever used in the show, ... which became even more retroactively awesome in light of his later-revealed instability, seeing as it was the music used for the Master's re-emergence in Season Three. Clever, Mr. Gold, very clever indeed.


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