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WE ARE THE X-watch-MEN!!!

Mar 7, 2010#1

@Li3n

Really subtle Marvel: http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=25032

Mar 7, 2010#2

Chained

Seeing this coming along the heels of the highly original Spider-Man firing, it's good to see that the direction of Marvel is really fresh and new for the new generation. I mean, a DEATH in the X-Men family?! WOW!

Mar 7, 2010#3

Dave

And the total ripping off of the Watchmen craze/phenomenon.

Classy!

Mar 7, 2010#4

ElJuski

Why is this a ripoff and not an homage, exactly?

Mar 7, 2010#5

ThatNickGuy

Oh, man! I can't wait for this! It's the event that will CHANGE EVERYTHING! And SOMEONE will die! And NO ONE will EVER be the same again!

You know, until the NEXT event.

Mar 7, 2010#6

Dave

ElJuski said:
Why is this a ripoff and not an homage, exactly?

Because they are directly competing companies.

Mar 7, 2010#7

ElJuski

Dave;350491][QUOTE=ElJuski said:
Why is this a ripoff and not an homage, exactly?

Because they are directly competing companies.[/QUOTE]

S...s...so? Watchmen is a comic cornerstone. I think the work itself goes beyond "companies" and is part of the cultural spectrum. Should no "rival company" ever make note of anything any other rival company has done, ever? Including pop cultural cornerstones? I think that's a whack argument.

Mar 8, 2010#8

@Li3n

ElJuski said:
Why is this a ripoff and not an homage, exactly?

Because they're doing it at a time when Watchmen just had a film and they are talks of diluting it with spin-offs/sequels at DC. Timing is everything.

I think that's a whack argument.

Mar 8, 2010#9

Shegokigo

ElJuski said:
S...s...so? Watchmen is a comic cornerstone. I think the work itself goes beyond "companies" and is part of the cultural spectrum. Should no "rival company" ever make note of anything any other rival company has done, ever? Including pop cultural cornerstones? I think that's a whack argument.

Can you really not tell the difference between a rip-off and a homage?

I'm sure Greg Land was really just paying homage to porn too right? :rolleyes:

Mar 8, 2010#10

phil

Eh, maybe this is an homage, maybe it's a rip off, maybe it's an unfortunate coincidence. I wasn't aware that having any amount of blood on a symbol was ripping off watchmen.

As fas as the idea that claiming an homage as an excuse for ripping someone else off goes, I feel that it's always been kind of bullshit. I mean, paying homage to something is a valid thing to do in a piece of work, but to me it should always be clear and deliberate. Biatrix Kiddo in Kill Bill wearing a yellow jumpsuit comes to mind. In that scene it was clearly an homage to Bruce Lee, and I think anyone who recognized the suit saw it for what it was. If a super hero where to rip open a shirt and reveal his/her costume underneath, that would be a clear homage to Superman. Going much beyond that though, and you risk going into rip off country with what you're doing.

Mar 8, 2010#11

@Li3n

I wasn't aware that having any amount of blood on a symbol was ripping off watchmen.

Yellow background for no real reson, circle in the middle, instant recognition by people once you mention watchmen with no other clues needed... it's close enough.

Wouldn't matter if the timing wasn't so obvious though.

Mar 8, 2010#12

Shegokigo

Maybe so, but the little "bloodstain" on the bottom I think, is what pushes it over the top.

Mar 8, 2010#13

Frankie Williamson

I hope it means they kill Wolverine. Fuck that guy.

Mar 8, 2010#14

@Li3n

And then just have his blond son show up... i heard that worked so well.

Mar 8, 2010#15

Dave

His blood son....who just happens to have identical powers...

Mar 8, 2010#16

ElJuski

Shegokigo said:
Can you really not tell the difference between a rip-off and a homage?

Unless I'm obviously missing some comic insider information...apparently yeah. But also, comic book nerds are known to go off the handle on bullshit like this all the time anyway. Just seems like they're doing a thing with a really culturally known and resonating thing.

But

I could

be wrong

Mar 8, 2010#17

Espy

Meh, it kind of looks like it but honestly not enough for me to think rip off or at least no more than anything else in the comic book genre.

Mar 8, 2010#18

@Li3n

I think you mean to say that there's nothing they can sue over.

Dave said:
His blood son....who just happens to have identical powers...

I don't remember Ult Wolvie to be able to will his bone claws into metal... some people are hoping he'll turn out to be ult Mimic... optimism is so naive.

Mar 8, 2010#19

General Specific

Iceman is killed in his apartment. Wolverine investigates with the help of Angel, Jubilee, and Nate Grey (X-Man). At the end, they find out that it was Prof. X and that it was to help cover up a plan to get humanity and mutants to live in peace by bringing back Apocalypse for the X-Men to publically defeat.

Mar 8, 2010#20

V.Bond

@Li3n said:
I think you mean to say that there's nothing they can sue over.

Dave said:

His blood son....who just happens to have identical powers...

Click to expand...

I don't remember Ult Wolvie to be able to will his bone claws into metal... some people are hoping he'll turn out to be ult Mimic... optimism is so naive.

Is this taking place in the Ultimate universe?

If not, then Dave is probably talking about Daken

Mar 8, 2010#21

@Li3n

Yeah, but i was talking about Ult Son of Wolverine at the start, so why stop.

Mar 8, 2010#22

SpecialKO

@Li3n said:
Yeah, but i was talking about Ult Son of Wolverine at the start, so why stop.

At least they're not spending a year or two going, "WHO'S SON IS HE?!!!"

I was honestly expecting them to go there.

Mar 9, 2010#23

@Li3n

TeKeo;351181][QUOTE=@Li3n said:
Yeah, but i was talking about Ult Son of Wolverine at the start, so why stop.

At least they're not spending a year or two going, "WHO'S SON IS HE?!!!"

I was honestly expecting them to go there.[/QUOTE]

That's because they're obviously gonna reveal he's actually not Logan's, but something stupid... or he's a clone.

Mar 9, 2010#24

wana10

i'm with juski on this one, a lot of people trying to make this into something it isn't.

Mar 9, 2010#25

@Li3n

Man, i'm getting so much use out of this lately:

Mar 9, 2010#26

wana10

@Li3n said:
Man, i'm getting so much use out of this lately:

picture[img][/QUOTE]

yeah...and it's already more annoying than chaz's little shark fetish. but lets go over your points shall we?

[QUOTE="@Li3n, post: 699707"][QUOTE]I wasn't aware that having any amount of blood on a symbol was ripping off watchmen. [/QUOTE] Yellow background for no real reson, circle in the middle, instant recognition by people once you mention watchmen with no other clues needed... it's close enough.

Wouldn't matter if the timing wasn't so obvious though.[/QUOTE]

the yellow background...yellow has always been an x-men color, from issue 1. well, blue and yellow to be honest, but blue wouldn't have been as eye catching. don't believe me? wolverine- blue/brown and yellow. cyclops - blue and yellow. beast- blue fur and yellow. colossus- red and yellow. jean grey - blue/green/red and yellow. storm- blue/black/white and yellow. rogue- green and yellow. shadowcat - blue and yellow. jubilee- giant yellow coat.

circle in the middle, guess what the x-men team symbol is? a circle with an x in it. has been since before watchmen. ([URL="http://www.usps.com/communications/newsroom/2007stamps/downloads/marvel/XMenCov300dpi.jpg"]here's the cover of issue #1, note the yellow and the belt buckles[/URL])

instant recognition once you mention watchmen. "hey, what does this look like?" "i dunno, x-men?" "no way, it's totally watchmen!" "oh...maybe i guess". sure, they recognize it once you tell them what to recognize...:rolleyes:

Mar 9, 2010#27

Shegokigo

It's not the yellow, or the circle. It's the combination of the two with a small bloodsplatter on it.

Mar 9, 2010#28

fade

Homage.

Next question.

Mar 9, 2010#29

ScytheRexx

Definitely don't see the big deal in this, looks like a homage to me.

Mar 10, 2010#30

@Li3n

@fade

Like i said before, it's the timing that makes it a crappy move...

wana10 said:
the yellow background...yellow has always been an x-men color, from issue 1. well, blue and yellow to be honest, but blue wouldn't have been as eye catching. don't believe me? wolverine- blue/brown and yellow. cyclops - blue and yellow. beast- blue fur and yellow. colossus- red and yellow. jean grey - blue/green/red and yellow. storm- blue/black/white and yellow. rogue- green and yellow. shadowcat - blue and yellow. jubilee- giant yellow coat.

circle in the middle, guess what the x-men team symbol is? a circle with an x in it. has been since before watchmen. (here's the cover of issue #1, note the yellow and the belt buckles)

And they haven't used those suits since forever... while Wolverine's colours 1st showed up in Hulk.

Really, when was the last time you saw the X on a yellow background?!

wana10 said:
sure, they recognize it once you tell them what to recognize...

Once i simply bring up Watchmen, not the actual smiley face or anything...

Mar 10, 2010#31

wana10

@Li3n said:
And they haven't used those suits since forever... while Wolverine's colours 1st showed up in Hulk.

they don't use those exact suits but they still use the colors(and notice the belts...)

Mar 10, 2010#32

@Li3n

Red Circle with Yellow X... you totally got me there...

But i did forget those Astonishing costumes... mostly because of what the f is that on Beast....

Mar 10, 2010#33

figmentPez

@Li3n said:
Really, when was the last time you saw the X on a yellow background?!

New Mutants #1 (Third series of that title) May2009.

As far as i know they're still in those costumes.

New Mutants #9 went on sale Jan 6, 2010

---------- Post added at 03:27 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:25 PM ----------

Huh, here's a thought. Maybe the New Mutants are stepping up to be the new X-men?

Mar 10, 2010#34

Calleja

It's obviously a homage when EVERYONE knows watchmen... they can't so obviously rip-off something EVERYONE knows, they're not that stupid as to try to pass it off as their own. It's a teaser, for Spidey's sake, it's obviously a homage. When Peter Parker ran through an alley in, at least, the first 2 Spidey movies and ripped his shirt open to reveal the Spider emblem.. they weren't ripping off Superman, it was a homaaaaageeee. Just like this is.

Marvel..no, no, scratch that.. DISNEY... has lawyers, people. They'd know when they were entering ripping off territory.

Mar 10, 2010#35

Allen, who is Quiet

homage

Mar 11, 2010#36

@Li3n

A homage when the thing your homage-ing is experiencing a resurgence is rather cheap.

Mar 11, 2010#37

Calleja

It is also when it's more present in the collective mind and ergo more relevant and recognizable.

Mar 11, 2010#38

Silver Jelly

An look at that name! as the topic's title already notices, they are even ripping off there. Really, watchMEN, xMEN... It's like if they didn't even have the time to invent what to put in front of the "men" and just slapped an "X" in there.

Mar 11, 2010#39

@Li3n

Calleja said:
It is also when it's more present in the collective mind and ergo more relevant and recognizable.

Which is what makes it cheap.

Mar 11, 2010#40

Espy

@Li3n;352677][QUOTE=Calleja said:
It is also when it's more present in the collective mind and ergo more relevant and recognizable.

Which is what makes it effective.[/QUOTE]

FTFY

Might be cheap but in a time when the industry is fighting for every damn sale an homage that might draw people eyes is a wise marketing move. Smart move on Marvel's part.

Mar 11, 2010#41

ElJuski

Wait you people are still bitching about this?

Mar 11, 2010#42

Espy

ElJuski said:
Wait you people are still bitching about this?

I'm actually lauding it now as a savvy business move.

Mar 11, 2010#43

ElJuski

Espy;352772][QUOTE=ElJuski said:
Wait you people are still bitching about this?

I'm actually lauding it now as a savvy business move.[/QUOTE]

I wasn't calling you out, particularly

Mar 11, 2010#44

Espy

ElJuski;352779][QUOTE=Espy;352772][QUOTE=ElJuski said:
Wait you people are still bitching about this?

I'm actually lauding it now as a savvy business move.[/QUOTE]

I wasn't calling you out, particularly

[/QUOTE]

I just wanted to make sure you knew I was talking about savvy now. Saaaaaaaaaaavvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvy. Savvy.

Mar 11, 2010#45

Calleja

"savvy" is such a wonderfully piratey word.

Mar 11, 2010#46

fade

"Any of 'em savvy English?"

Mar 11, 2010#47

Calleja

You know who ELSE is cheap? Jon Stewart. And Stephen Colbert. And everyone who has ever had or will have a talk show. Cause it's cheap to get laughs from something that is happening NOW, guys. If it's when it's more present in the collective mind and ergo more relevant and recognizable and you talk about it, it's cheap.

Someone tell the people at SNL they're all cheap bastards.

Wait, scratch that last one.

Mar 11, 2010#48

Gusto

Or anything that references/includes pop culture in any way.

It's either ripping off whatever's the flavour-of-the-week, or self-indulgent nostalgic bullshit.

"There is nothing new under the sun."

Mar 11, 2010#49

@Li3n

Calleja said:
You know who ELSE is cheap? Jon Stewart. And Stephen Colbert. And everyone who has ever had or will have a talk show. Cause it's cheap to get laughs from something that is happening NOW, guys. If it's when it's more present in the collective mind and ergo more relevant and recognizable and you talk about it, it's cheap.

There's a reason why parody is protected while other forms of inspiration from current things are not you know.

Might be cheap but in a time when the industry is fighting for every damn sale an homage that might draw people eyes is a wise marketing move. Smart move on Marvel's part.

No one said it wasn't, did they?

Mar 11, 2010#50

Baerdog

Quiznos?

Mar 11, 2010#51

Calleja

@Li3n;352892][QUOTE=Calleja said:
You know who ELSE is cheap? Jon Stewart. And Stephen Colbert. And everyone who has ever had or will have a talk show. Cause it's cheap to get laughs from something that is happening NOW, guys. If it's when it's more present in the collective mind and ergo more relevant and recognizable and you talk about it, it's cheap.

There's a reason why parody is protected while other forms of inspiration from current things are not you know.

Might be cheap but in a time when the industry is fighting for every damn sale an homage that might draw people eyes is a wise marketing move. Smart move on Marvel's part.

No one said it wasn't, did they?[/QUOTE]

Yeah... but you can parody something from 1928 just as legally, yet all these shows choose to parody things that are happening NOW. I wonder why?

oh, yeah, they're cheap.

If they weren't, they'd be parodying things that happened in the 70s, of course.

Mar 11, 2010#52

fade

I still don't get the problem. I don't see why it makes any difference whatsoever that the watchmen "just" got popular again. Whoop-de-doo?

Mar 11, 2010#53

Calleja

You're so daft, fade, don't you see? If it happened in the last 2 years it's cheap to mention it.

Mar 11, 2010#54

ElJuski

Tsk tsk

Mar 11, 2010#55

Calleja

I'd reply to your post, Jusk, but it happened recently so it would be cheap of me to do so.

I'll have a hilarious reply once everyone forgets about it, though.

Mar 11, 2010#56

ElJuski

I won't bother reading it. That's a pretty cheap ripoff you got going as your sig.

Mar 11, 2010#57

Calleja

Wow, damn, the abbey road thing is still there? I've had sigs turned off so long I COMPLETELY forgot about it. How does it even look with this forum layout?

...i... can't find where to turn sigs back off to see. gimme a sec.

---------- Post added at 01:50 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:47 PM ----------

Damn, that looks fugly, doesn't it?

---------- Post added at 01:53 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:50 PM ----------

There, done, no more siggy.

Mar 11, 2010#58

@Li3n

Calleja said:
Yeah... but you can parody something from 1928 just as legally, yet all these shows choose to parody things that are happening NOW. I wonder why?
.

Way to miss the point...

I still don't get the problem. I don't see why it makes any difference whatsoever that the watchmen "just" got popular again.

The difference being actually using it out of a sense of nostalgia etc. vs using it because it will increase your sales by association...

Mar 11, 2010#59

fade

And?

Mar 11, 2010#60

ElJuski

His point is "OMG I LIEK DA WATCHMEN WHY IS YOU USIN IT!?!?"

Mar 11, 2010#61

Calleja

a homage for something for nostalgia will NOT increase your sales?

Seriously dude, you're grasping at straws here.

Mar 11, 2010#62

Fun Size

fromage

Mar 11, 2010#63

wana10

Fun Size said:
fromage

that's all you can say!
that's all you can say!

Mar 11, 2010#64

Silver Jelly

wana10;353176][QUOTE=Fun Size said:
fromage

that's all you can say!
that's all you can say![/QUOTE]

OH, THE CHILDHOOD MEMORIES. That was, like, the first Dexter's Lab cartoon I ever understood as a kid (I watched them in english)

wait, are you ripping them off?

Mar 11, 2010#65

Allen, who is Quiet

No see, because it wasn't incredibly recent, it's completely fine that he's referencing it.

Mar 11, 2010#66

Calleja

yeah, Dexter isn't really all that popular NOW, so referencing them is not cheap at all. It's actually a pretty decent homage, congratulations for that.

Don't you dare mention Lady Gaga, though, that'd be incredibly cheap of you.

Mar 12, 2010#67

Silver Jelly

Phew, it's good to know. Because if he was ripping him off... if he DARED ripping Dexter's lab off...

Mar 12, 2010#68

@Li3n

Because obviously FunSize is making money off that post... :rolleyes:

Mar 12, 2010#69

Silver Jelly

@Li3n said:
Because obviously FunSize is making money off that post...

Mar 12, 2010#70

Calleja

hey, hey, you never said anything about money, your exact wording was "A homage when the thing your homage-ing is experiencing a resurgence is rather cheap"... a homage needs not to be in a medium you're making money off of.

Mar 12, 2010#71

@Li3n

But a rip off does...

And why do i have to point out every little thing... Marvel is not a charity, is it?!

Mar 12, 2010#72

Calleja

It's NOT a t rip off if it's a passing similarity in a freaking teaser poster. Get uppity about it when they rip off the storyline, or one of the characters or something.

Until then, it's a homage. A homage of something that's popular right now so it gets instantly recognized. That's not "cheap", it's rather effin' common and done all the time.

Watchmen isn't even popular with the general populace, anyway. Not even after the movie. It's a geek phenomenon, the movie was not the mainstream success they were hoping.

Mar 12, 2010#73

wana10

what i find interesting about this conversation is that fact that the watchmen characters were rip offs themselves. (before you say that they were an homage consider this, moore went to the owners of the original characters, asked for permission, was denied, and then used them anyways with minor changes.)

Mar 12, 2010#74

@Li3n

wana10 said:
what i find interesting about this conversation is that fact that the watchmen characters were rip offs themselves. (before you say that they were an homage consider this, moore went to the owners of the original characters, asked for permission, was denied, and then used them anyways with minor changes.)

No they're not... the characters where just freshly acquired by DC, but then they realised that if they used them in Watchmen they couldn't use them in the regular DCU after (even DC knew Watchmen 2 wouldn't work) so they had him redo it with expy's of the characters.

Watchmen isn't even popular with the general populace, anyway. Not even after the movie. It's a geek phenomenon, the movie was not the mainstream success they were hoping.

Neither is Wonder Woman, but they know who she is...

And they're using the image for marketing purposes, even parody would have problems if using something like that to market itself...

That's not "cheap", it's rather effin' common and done all the time.

So's murder... :shocked: :laugh:

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