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Wireless Mesh Networking
#1
figmentPez
figmentPez
I'm going to moving soon and I need to set up a network. Long story short, my parents are refurbishing a storage/workshop building into an house for me. The plan is to set up a mesh network to share the main house's internet, but I haven't paid attention to any of the details of wireless networking for years. (I tried to talk them into running ethernet while construction was happening, but I got vetoed.)
Does anyone have experience with setting up coverage?
My brother-in-law was originally going to be in charge of setting this up, but he's gotten too busy or something. He bought a Netgear Orbi RBR760, and planned to replace my parent's cable modem, though I don't know why. They currently own (not rent, they say) a Motorola MT7711. It's not End-Of-Life or anything, so I don't see why they couldn't just disable the onboard WiFi and hook it up to the Orbi.
Is the Netgear Orbi a decent wireless network? If it is, is there anything I need to know about setting this up? Will we need to buy a new cable modem to work with whatever wireless mesh networking setup we use?
Does anyone have experience with setting up coverage?
My brother-in-law was originally going to be in charge of setting this up, but he's gotten too busy or something. He bought a Netgear Orbi RBR760, and planned to replace my parent's cable modem, though I don't know why. They currently own (not rent, they say) a Motorola MT7711. It's not End-Of-Life or anything, so I don't see why they couldn't just disable the onboard WiFi and hook it up to the Orbi.
Is the Netgear Orbi a decent wireless network? If it is, is there anything I need to know about setting this up? Will we need to buy a new cable modem to work with whatever wireless mesh networking setup we use?
#2
Dave
Dave
Waiting for Pat or Gas to wake up for this one.
#3
GasBandit
GasBandit
My girlfriend used an Orbi in her old house and was very pleased with it. The WiFi 6 ones (which the RBR760 indeed is) was a great improvement over the 5s. I didn't mess much with it myself, but she says it was really easy to set up.
As for the Motorola MT7711, while technically not end of life, it is a DOCSIS 3.0 which means it's unsuitable for gigabit, which is rapidly becoming the norm. You'd want a DOCSIS 3.1 to get gigabit.
As luck would have it, since I moved to Fiber last year, I still have my Motorola MB8600 DOCSIS 3.1 cable modems (one I used, one new in box in case the first one died because I was working from home and could NOT be without internet). You can have one or both of them if you want. You'll just have to tell your cable provider the CMAC address of the modem so they can get it associated with your account and working.
As for the Motorola MT7711, while technically not end of life, it is a DOCSIS 3.0 which means it's unsuitable for gigabit, which is rapidly becoming the norm. You'd want a DOCSIS 3.1 to get gigabit.
As luck would have it, since I moved to Fiber last year, I still have my Motorola MB8600 DOCSIS 3.1 cable modems (one I used, one new in box in case the first one died because I was working from home and could NOT be without internet). You can have one or both of them if you want. You'll just have to tell your cable provider the CMAC address of the modem so they can get it associated with your account and working.
#4
PatrThom
Back later.
--Patrick
PatrThom
Having other life discussions at the moment.Waiting for Pat or Gas to wake up for this one.
Back later.
--Patrick
#5
figmentPez
I've got to get to sleep (allergy season makes me nocturnal), but I'll get back to @GasBandit , and anyone else who replies, soon.
figmentPez
No hurry, I've got at least a month before I move. The contractor is already well past the original estimate.Having other life discussions at the moment.
Back later.
I've got to get to sleep (allergy season makes me nocturnal), but I'll get back to @GasBandit , and anyone else who replies, soon.
#6
PatrThom
PatrThom
First of all, I know little to nothing about the merits of different brands/models of terminal adapters (TA's) because the area where I live is too "fringe" to support fully modern speeds (the ABSOLUTE MAX we can get here from any standard infrastructure vendor is ~300Mb/s), so I will not speak to that other than yes, a device supporting DOCSIS 3.1 capability should be the minimum target for a "cable" Internet connection. But for routers, the Orbi looks like it should be fine, assuming it meets your needs (up to 75 wireless devices, that is).
As for routing/access point/meshing, I have been looking to upgrade my current setup for some time with some kind of newer system, but right now there really isn't anything that does what _I_ want (which is to keep my existing router BUT only upgrade my access points), so I don't have any current favorites. Most mesh systems come with a "main" router unit and some number of satellite units. The Internet you get from the wall does not determine what kind/brand/whatever mesh system you are allowed to use UNLESS your ISP uses carrier-grade NAT and your system of choice has some weird issue with that, but this is not common. So long as your TA has at least one RJ45 socket on it, you just run a cable from that socket to the "WAN" port on the base unit of your system and the rest is just configuration. The router system doesn't care where the Internet comes from, it just expects that it be connected to that WAN port. Everything connected to and upstream of the WAN port is considered "outside" of your personal network, and everything else is considered "inside" (LAN).
I am going to assume that you have some wired devices and some wireless devices. Wired devices should be easy, they just get plugged into any unused LAN port on whichever device is closest to their location. The cable you use should be designated at least as "CAT5e" (not the "ordinary" CAT5), though if you are going to be purchasing new cables for any of your wired devices, I would just step up directly to CAT6. For simplicity's sake, you should probably not use cables longer than 100ft/30m. The base unit on the Orbi looks like it has three of these (LAN) ports, and the satellites each have two. Keep this limit in mind when deciding which of your devices will go where (or else get a small Ethernet switch to allow for additional ports where you need them). Wireless devices are a little more complicated because location and interference actually matter. The good news is that the Orbi supports WPA3, which is the newest WiFi encryption protocol, but none of that will matter if your devices are older and only support up to WPA2 or WPA (or even WEP but really you should be getting rid of devices that only support WEP). If you are not sure then just choose the WPA+WPA2 option.
Placement of your base and satellites is going to be very important. Assuming you don't have access to any kind of stumbler software or other device to measure WiFi strength, then you will just need to "best guess" your placement. When doing so, you will need to take the physical design of the building into account. The base unit must be connected via a physical Ethernet cable to your TA, and the satellites get placed somewhere else to repeat the signal to more remote locations. Remember that the wireless signal broadcast by each unit is going to be toroidal or hemispherical (dome) in shape, and that it decays with distance, so when deciding where to put the satellites, it might be tempting to put them directly in the distant area(s) where you will most commonly be using the signal (CS----------B----------SC), but that is not the best method since the distance between the Base and Satellite means the signal coming into the satellites is weakened and can't be repeated at full speed for the Client(s). Instead, it is better to arrange them nearer to the base (C-----S-----B-----S-----C) because a satellite (and therefore all the clients connected to it) can't talk to the main base unit any faster than the speed the satellite can "hear" from the base at that satellite's current location. Additionally there is nothing saying the base unit "must" be physically located right next to your main TA (other than the length of the cable), so don't be afraid to run a loooong cable from your TA to wherever the base unit is going to live if it means better coverage overall. Remember also that the WiFi coverage "bubble" broadcast by each unit is in three dimensions, so if coverage for basement/attic/upstairs/downstairs matters, your placement will also have to take that Z-axis into account.
tl:dr; I don't see any reason NOT to use the Orbi for your Internet (especially if it's "free!"), assuming you follow some fairly obvious rules about placement and coverage.
As for routing/access point/meshing, I have been looking to upgrade my current setup for some time with some kind of newer system, but right now there really isn't anything that does what _I_ want (which is to keep my existing router BUT only upgrade my access points), so I don't have any current favorites. Most mesh systems come with a "main" router unit and some number of satellite units. The Internet you get from the wall does not determine what kind/brand/whatever mesh system you are allowed to use UNLESS your ISP uses carrier-grade NAT and your system of choice has some weird issue with that, but this is not common. So long as your TA has at least one RJ45 socket on it, you just run a cable from that socket to the "WAN" port on the base unit of your system and the rest is just configuration. The router system doesn't care where the Internet comes from, it just expects that it be connected to that WAN port. Everything connected to and upstream of the WAN port is considered "outside" of your personal network, and everything else is considered "inside" (LAN).
I am going to assume that you have some wired devices and some wireless devices. Wired devices should be easy, they just get plugged into any unused LAN port on whichever device is closest to their location. The cable you use should be designated at least as "CAT5e" (not the "ordinary" CAT5), though if you are going to be purchasing new cables for any of your wired devices, I would just step up directly to CAT6. For simplicity's sake, you should probably not use cables longer than 100ft/30m. The base unit on the Orbi looks like it has three of these (LAN) ports, and the satellites each have two. Keep this limit in mind when deciding which of your devices will go where (or else get a small Ethernet switch to allow for additional ports where you need them). Wireless devices are a little more complicated because location and interference actually matter. The good news is that the Orbi supports WPA3, which is the newest WiFi encryption protocol, but none of that will matter if your devices are older and only support up to WPA2 or WPA (or even WEP but really you should be getting rid of devices that only support WEP). If you are not sure then just choose the WPA+WPA2 option.
Placement of your base and satellites is going to be very important. Assuming you don't have access to any kind of stumbler software or other device to measure WiFi strength, then you will just need to "best guess" your placement. When doing so, you will need to take the physical design of the building into account. The base unit must be connected via a physical Ethernet cable to your TA, and the satellites get placed somewhere else to repeat the signal to more remote locations. Remember that the wireless signal broadcast by each unit is going to be toroidal or hemispherical (dome) in shape, and that it decays with distance, so when deciding where to put the satellites, it might be tempting to put them directly in the distant area(s) where you will most commonly be using the signal (CS----------B----------SC), but that is not the best method since the distance between the Base and Satellite means the signal coming into the satellites is weakened and can't be repeated at full speed for the Client(s). Instead, it is better to arrange them nearer to the base (C-----S-----B-----S-----C) because a satellite (and therefore all the clients connected to it) can't talk to the main base unit any faster than the speed the satellite can "hear" from the base at that satellite's current location. Additionally there is nothing saying the base unit "must" be physically located right next to your main TA (other than the length of the cable), so don't be afraid to run a loooong cable from your TA to wherever the base unit is going to live if it means better coverage overall. Remember also that the WiFi coverage "bubble" broadcast by each unit is in three dimensions, so if coverage for basement/attic/upstairs/downstairs matters, your placement will also have to take that Z-axis into account.
tl:dr; I don't see any reason NOT to use the Orbi for your Internet (especially if it's "free!"), assuming you follow some fairly obvious rules about placement and coverage.
#7
ncts_dodge_man
ncts_dodge_man
I'm running TP-Link Decos in a 2-unit mesh with a wired connection between the two. It covers my house without much issue (single-level house).
A suggestion for what will help with placement - find a signal strength app for your cell. I'm currently using WifIMan from Ubiquiti - while it's designed for their equipment, it still shows you how strong your signal is - it can help you set up where the satellite would help, especially if you can connect it via a wire.
I had looked at the Orbi before going with the Deco - I ended up liking the setup features on the Decos overall more than the Orbi, plus it generally seems to have a bit more range available. Biggest plus for the Deco, they are all the same device, so if you run into an issue with your main device, just physically swap it then tell the app that the other device is now the primary.
A suggestion for what will help with placement - find a signal strength app for your cell. I'm currently using WifIMan from Ubiquiti - while it's designed for their equipment, it still shows you how strong your signal is - it can help you set up where the satellite would help, especially if you can connect it via a wire.
I had looked at the Orbi before going with the Deco - I ended up liking the setup features on the Decos overall more than the Orbi, plus it generally seems to have a bit more range available. Biggest plus for the Deco, they are all the same device, so if you run into an issue with your main device, just physically swap it then tell the app that the other device is now the primary.
#8
GasBandit
GasBandit
TP-Link products have always done well by me. My routers have been TPLink for decades now.
#9
PatrThom
--Patrick
PatrThom
The Orbi does not look like it supports a wired backbone, unless that option is further into the manual than I explored. Only to the base unit. Otherwise yes, running a cable between your base/satellites is always the best option.it can help you set up where the satellite would help, especially if you can connect it via a wire.
--Patrick
#10
ncts_dodge_man
I bought my Decos a couple of years ago - one had issues with a wired port - they replaced it without question. Other than that, they've been solid performers.
The Deco does allow both wired and wireless connection - I have the wireless connection between the two as a backup.
ncts_dodge_man
Well crud, I forgot that it doesn't. But I'd say that's yet another reason to not use it if possible.The Orbi does not look like it supports a wired backbone, unless that option is further into the manual than I explored. Only to the base unit. Otherwise yes, running a cable between your base/satellites is always the best option.
--Patrick
I bought my Decos a couple of years ago - one had issues with a wired port - they replaced it without question. Other than that, they've been solid performers.
The Deco does allow both wired and wireless connection - I have the wireless connection between the two as a backup.