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My excuse is I wasn't here back then :humph:
My issue is that we don't know a whole lot about what Monroe College promised her. Did they claim they had a high placement rating? Do they have transferable credits? It obviously was not a cheap school considering it cost her $70,000 worth of loans. (To put into perspective, I have $90,000 worth in loans that I will be paying off till I am dead, some technical schools are expensive.)Edrondol said:
If the school never promised anything, and the credits she had were transferable to another school with better placement, I would say she is just being stupid and should have gotten out when she realized what was happening. However, if the school used similar "bait and switch" tactics as my school (Claiming 95% placement only to admit 70% of those were crap fast food jobs, not informing us that credits were untransferable, meaning we either toughed it out for our degree or started over from scratch), then I say she has every right to be a little peeved when she finally reaches the end and the school is unable to give her something better then "Go work at McDonalds" (Which one placement officer literally told me once).
She will definitely not get her money back, she would need more then just herself to be taking part in the suit, but I guess I have sympathy for her as long as she actually went through the same issues I did, which based on the information are pretty similar.
Most schools do have a placement office of sorts, but I guarantee that even those with a 95% placement can not say that every person will get a job. They might be able to get the person an interview, but the person still has to sell their talents and abilities to get the job. In addition, most school's placement offices require that you seek them out. This isn't high school. They don't do things for you. You have a degree you should be able to get your own legwork done.
NOBODY can promise you a job in a placement office. It's impossible. Suing for your own personal failures is ludicrous.
NOBODY can promise you a job in a placement office. It's impossible. Suing for your own personal failures is ludicrous.
If they can not promise it, then they shouldn't promise it. The rep that came to my house when I was 18 said "We will get you a job, we have a 95% placement rating, you will have one when you graduate."Edrondol said:
This is why hundreds of students had taken part in the same lawsuit as I did, equaling a settlement of 10,000,000 dollars. I only got back 10k of my tuition, but frankly I find that a suitable amount for the time I had wasted with the placement department.
I agree that in the end, we ourselves have to find work, and we can not rely on others to hand it to us. However, I think if a school promises to help you, they should do everything they can to help you considering how much you invested into them for an education. I don't know how much help Monroe is actually giving her, but if it was anything like the "help" my school gave me, I have to sympathize, because it happened to me.
Ed, let's be honest... we just protect our own 
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Chibibar
I don't remember the case either.ScytheRexx said:
but on the original topic.
Technical schools USE to guarantee a job when you graduate. Community college usually don't do that (at least the one I currently work will HELP you find it, but not guarantee it) 2.7 GPA out of 4.0??
I graduate with 3.75 GPA with perfect attendance and I work at Denny's for 1 year BEFORE I put my degree into work........ take what you can Trina.
So 95% placement rating. To be able to make this claim they have to have statistics to back it up. What you are talking about is a class-action suit with far more than the 5% unplaced involved. In this case it's a singular person, not a class action. Trina, welcome to the unplaceable 5%. It's called math. Apparently she failed that subject, too.ScytheRexx said:
I will admit, I am projecting a bit due to the similarities. I think in the end it will come down to how many others students she actually gets in on the case with her. My class action had hundreds of signatures because nearly every student in a five year period went through the same issues. If she ends up being the only person suing the school, she pretty much is, as you say, simply in that 5% and needs to get over it. If that is the case, she should just suck it up and do what I did, go out and get any job you can find till you get the contacts to get the one you want.Edrondol said:
I will stop projecting in that regard, I just felt for her on a certain level due to similarity, but for all I know our situations were nothing alike.
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Chibibar
no worries mate. We just need more information on this lady (and news) so we'll see if she is a loner on this or there is a class action involved.ScytheRexx said:
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SeraRelm
*clears her throat*
Stop being a lazy fuck and go find a god damned job you sue-happy whore!
*straightens her papers, adjusts her glasses*
Thank you.
*leaves the podium*
Stop being a lazy fuck and go find a god damned job you sue-happy whore!
*straightens her papers, adjusts her glasses*
Thank you.
*leaves the podium*
I worked with a teacher that originally came from France. She lived her adult life here in the states. After her husband died, she decided to be a language teacher. She was already fluent in French and German. But she had no formal college training in those languages. She returned to college, did her hours, got the added degree to her list of degrees. And failed the proficiency exams in German. She wanted to sue the college for not teaching her any of the skills needed to pass the test that says you are ready to teach German to little Texans.
I never knew what happened with that, but I hope she did sue.
About the same time I took the test to teach Spanish. There was little on that exam that was covered in the classes I attended. But on the other hand, I did not want to be in those classes to begin with. I tanked the classes, since I never took any foreign languages in High School. But those 4 classes and 2 labs got me my first teaching assignment. I was able to teach for one year on an emergency basis, then challenge the test to become a certified Spanish Teacher. It was the lowest test score in my life.
I never knew what happened with that, but I hope she did sue.
About the same time I took the test to teach Spanish. There was little on that exam that was covered in the classes I attended. But on the other hand, I did not want to be in those classes to begin with. I tanked the classes, since I never took any foreign languages in High School. But those 4 classes and 2 labs got me my first teaching assignment. I was able to teach for one year on an emergency basis, then challenge the test to become a certified Spanish Teacher. It was the lowest test score in my life.
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Le Quack
If I remember, they guarenteed connections and a job straight out of college and advertised it, and that was false. This is just somebody who is upset.ScytheRexx said:
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Chazwozel
:slap:ScytheRexx said:
What a load of horseshit. If you wanted good placement and connections after you were done with college you should have gone to an Ivy league or top ranked liberal arts school, instead of being a rube and falling for a shady community college tactic. Seriously, that is utterly the most naive statement I've ever heard. Do you believe everything they bark at you about products during infomercials? I can't believe there are people out there that honestly believe college = high paying job. The point of academics IS NOT to land a job, it's to broaden your perspectives and expand your mind. That's the only responsibility a university has to you; to offer you subjects and teach them. People that go on to higher education with the expectations of landing a high paying gig because they went to college are delusional, no matter what the institute claims.
As far as job placement. I don't know what kind of sham college you got duped into going to, but from my experience at a private liberal arts undergrad institute, they hook you up with job fairs every year, advisers, and tuition aid. Regardless, YOU'RE the one who had to go out their and get your own information. The advisers were there to show you the doors, so to speak. The only placement statistics that I ever heard boasted from my school were things like the % of students that go on to graduate school or % of students that score well on the MCATS. No one can claim anything as broad as general job placement statistics.
A community college degree is not there to broaden your mind. It is there to land you a job. Now days CC's are basically technology schools. They teach you enough of a craft to get you in on the ground floor with just 2 years spent on education.Chazwozel said:
But again it totally depends on external factors for which the school has no control, such as job market, the self-selling abilities of the student and the economic climate. IT is a very competitive field and to go in with a BA degree from a community college just won't cut it in most places. Nowadays you need a prestigious college or a post-grad degree. Certifications also help. But without a specific focus, she'll have trouble landing a job. The business of IT? How's about programming? Maybe some website design.sixpackshaker said:
It's not the school's fault. If this gets farther than the first judge before it gets thrown out I will be
I was just contradicting Chaz when it comes to the purpose of a CC versus a University. I know that it is not always possible to get a job in your field after coming out of community college. But my college did not make any guarantees of job placement, just unrealistic salary figures. I ended up working a Best Buy for a year before landing a good IT job.Edrondol said:But again it totally depends on external factors for which the school has no control, such as job market, the self-selling abilities of the student and the economic climate. IT is a very competitive field and to go in with a BA degree from a community college just won't cut it in most places. Nowadays you need a prestigious college or a post-grad degree. Certifications also help. But without a specific focus, she'll have trouble landing a job. The business of IT? How's about programming? Maybe some website design.sixpackshaker said:
It's not the school's fault. If this gets farther than the first judge before it gets thrown out I will be
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JCM
Up next, man sues sex ed teacher because he cant get any.
Now what remains to be seen is if the college´s marketing material DID or DID NOT promise her a job. If they did, there could be a case (false advertsing/promises), if not, she has no case.
Bingo.Edrondol said:
Now what remains to be seen is if the college´s marketing material DID or DID NOT promise her a job. If they did, there could be a case (false advertsing/promises), if not, she has no case.
I didn't go to a university for academics, I didn't even go to a university. I didn't want to go to a regular college because I spent my time reading when I was young, studying, and learning on my own time and felt little need to have a professor regurgitate the same information. I went to a "Trade School" specialized in the areas of photography and videography. You go to this school to get work in your field, not to just "expand your horizons", otherwise they would not even advertise placement figures, since that wouldn't even matter.Chazwozel said:
As for me being a "rube", (Very classy by the way) I was 18 at the time with most of my knowledge being in stage theater and unsure what I wanted to do with my future. I was met by the representative from the school, and yes, I believed what he was telling me because I actually trust people, rather then being cynical and worried the world is out to get me every second. Once I realized the mistake, my options were to stick it out, or start over, and I was not going to start over after investing a year and thousands of dollars. Do I regret it? Sometimes, but I do feel I got a good education at the least, they just promised me more and I made them stick to that or give me back some of my money. They went with the latter.
Well obviously you didn't know my school. There is a reason we have hundreds of people in a class action lawsuit that took place over a 5 year school period. It was because I was not the only one wronged. There were no fairs, there was a single adviser for everyone, and she pretty much told us to work at McDonalds, and I got no tuition aid forcing me into a last minute private loan just to finish school. I am sure you have had shit happen to you.
Or wait, your Chaz, nothing bad every happens to you. My mistake. :smug:
This will be what is comes down to, whether I support her or not. How many people had the same problem and sign up to join her will most likely be the final deciding factor.
You might have to point out where I said professors are morons and don't know anything? Or claimed that you personally "wasted your time" in college? Thanks for putting words in my mouth though, makes you look smart.Tress said:That's right, the rest of us who wasted our time at universities just sat around talking about stuff we already knew. Each professor was a moron who knew nothing of their subject. I certainly didn't learn anything or broaden my knowledge base in any way.
I have nothing but respect for teachers of any shape and size, from high school to Harvard, but my personal outlook on what I (<-keyword, just in case you miss it again) needed, was not at a regular college.
I'm mocking the pompous, self-righteous horseshit you were spewing about how you already knew everything you needed to know from reading, and that professors merely regurgitate information. You can parse words all you want, but that's what you said - and it was amazingly stupid.ScytheRexx said:You might have to point out where I said professors are morons and don't know anything? Or claimed that you personally "wasted your time" in college? Thanks for putting words in my mouth though, makes you look smart.Tress said:That's right, the rest of us who wasted our time at universities just sat around talking about stuff we already knew. Each professor was a moron who knew nothing of their subject. I certainly didn't learn anything or broaden my knowledge base in any way.
I have nothing but respect for teachers of any shape and size, from high school to Harvard, but my personal outlook on what I (<-keyword, just in case you miss it again) needed, was not at a regular college.
You once again need to point out where I claimed I "knew everything". I felt I knew enough for what I wanted, and was going into a specialized school because I wanted to work towards a certain career that I couldn't get just through textbooks. I read a lot of random books and other sources, and retain a lot of information (it's actually a disability), so I knew going to college would not work for me.Tress said:
You can call me pompous and self-righteous, but your the one somehow thinking that means I hate teachers and think they bring nothing good to society. Good work jumping to conclusions.
I will admit one thing, I could have used a better word then "regurgitate". I could have picked a more socially friendly word.
There were classes I took where I wanted to pimp-slap the teachers for being morons. In my algebra II class that I was not allowed to test out of I would hold after class meetings to show people how to really do what the teacher was trying to show. He didn't understand the material at all. Found out his background was something like history and they needed a warm body so they could hold the class. By the end of the semester I was at the blackboard with him showing the class how to do stuff.
I think everyone, at some point, had a teacher like that. I know I had a few teachers that raised my eyebrows. Can't really correct them though when you notice an issue, as I don't want to turn into that guy that calls them out in class.Edrondol said:
aranoid:P.S. I will apologize to anyone that was confused over my words. I have nothing against college, and believe if you are in college you are making a great choice in life. I am having a rather cruddy day at work, so I am not spending a lot of time picking my words about my personal choices and opinions poorly written, so once again, I apologize if anyone took offense to them. Just wanted to put that out.
I'm really sorry but all I do is look at your sig anymore. I'm sure you said something really important though.Edrondol said:
I was that teacher. When I taught Spanish my first day of class I told the kids that I was not fluent, but I would teach them everything that they would need to know to move on to the second year of the class. The kids liked that I was upfront about my knowledge.ScytheRexx said:I think everyone, at some point, had a teacher like that. I know I had a few teachers that raised my eyebrows. Can't really correct them though when you notice an issue, as I don't want to turn into that guy that calls them out in class.Edrondol said:
P.S. I will apologize to anyone that was confused over my words. I have nothing against college, and believe if you are in college you are making a great choice in life. I am having a rather cruddy day at work, so I am not spending a lot of time picking my words about my personal choices and opinions poorly written, so once again, I apologize if anyone took offense to them. Just wanted to put that out.
I was studying harder than any of my students that year...
This guy tried to BS his way through and just came off looking stupid.sixpackshaker said:I was that teacher. When I taught Spanish my first day of class I told the kids that I was not fluent, but I would teach them everything that they would need to know to move on to the second year of the class. The kids liked that I was upfront about my knowledge.ScytheRexx said:I think everyone, at some point, had a teacher like that. I know I had a few teachers that raised my eyebrows. Can't really correct them though when you notice an issue, as I don't want to turn into that guy that calls them out in class.Edrondol said:
P.S. I will apologize to anyone that was confused over my words. I have nothing against college, and believe if you are in college you are making a great choice in life. I am having a rather cruddy day at work, so I am not spending a lot of time picking my words about my personal choices and opinions poorly written, so once again, I apologize if anyone took offense to them. Just wanted to put that out.
I was studying harder than any of my students that year...
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LordRavage
One does not simply walk into corporate jobs....errr....I mean.....Mordor. 
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lafftaff
I always see his avatar and imagine he always has that face while posting.ZenMonkey said:
As for community colleges, they're not all terrible. I went to one and was satisfied. You get out of it what you put in. I took my basics, saved a lot money, and was able to transfer to another nice college.
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Chazwozel
You need a swift kick in the ass, Socrate's style. You can nit pick and argue semantics all you want; bottom line is you're a rube and like a chump, you actually believed someone would get you a job. Getting a job is 100% YOUR responsibility. No one is responsible for you but you. That's advice you can take to the bank. Your class action case sounds almost like as much horseshit as the dope from the OP article, only more organized. I'm sorry to be so blunt, but my biggest pet peeve is jerkoffs who believe there's an easy street to life, and they're too good to take the hard road like "all the other assholes". I don't give a rat's ass how specialized your program is. Whether it's for HVAC repair or getting a M.D./Ph.D. in neurology, you have to work hard to actually get a job after your training. You need build connections and network, and to expect someone else to do that for you is just stupid. No, I'm not a total cynic. I trust people, but I also grew up knowing damn well you can't expect anything without getting your hands dirty.ScytheRexx said:
:waah: "I thought I was smart enough not to work hard to get ahead in life." :waah:
No, bad things happen to me, just like everyone else. I don't like to whine like a bitch and find someone to blame when they do though. That's what cowards do. I worked hard to get where I am, I do everything I need to get myself ahead, and continue to do so. When I was job search back in March and April, I didn't have my department looking for a job for me. They have almost 100% placement rating at my school, but that's because everyone goes post-doc after their Ph.D. I didn't have an adviser to help me. No one gave a shit about what I was going to do besides me and my family.
I think I just fell in love with you, tactless though you may be.Chazwozel said:
I've had this conversation a few times with people at my school. The proper function of Universities are to teach the humanities and pure sciences. It is not to train you for a career. It's not even really to give you the skills for a career. For that, you get to go to a college of some sort.
I'm getting fed up with my academic institution being polluted with business majors and oil-industry hopefuls. It's not less valuable. It's just different. I don't order a Whopper at Subway, because that is not what Subway does.
And as a Philosophy major "on extended sabbatical", to anyone complaining about not finding work straight out of college, I would like to say simply: "Tough Titties."
EDIT: Wow, I messed the formatting of this right up. Should be good.
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