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We had this discussion some years back in one of my classes, and thought it'd be nice to see what my adopted Intarwebz home thinks of it.

So, what would you guys do if, after we've perfected spaceflight and the like, we come across a less advanced alien species?

The overwhelming consensus in my class was :They're not human, take the minerals and either turn them into food or dust particles"

I now turn this over to you

I say, we create forms of ourselves as that race--let's call em avatars--and send them out to assimilate the alien culture from the inside out.

BOOSH!

If we were able to travel that far to actually find other life we would have plenty of other options for minerals, but this food concept does intrigue. Bring a few back to so they can [STRIKE]infest the earth[/STRIKE] be 'sampled' and just leave a few probes to study the rest

WolfOfOdin said:

We had this discussion some years back in one of my classes, and thought it'd be nice to see what my adopted Intarwebz home thinks of it.

So, what would you guys do if, after we've perfected spaceflight and the like, we come across a less advanced alien species?

The overwhelming consensus in my class was :They're not human, take the minerals and either turn them into food or dust particles"

I now turn this over to you

Click to expand...

I'm curious: Where was this school, and what type of school was it? (Public? Private? Magnet? Parochial?)

ElJuski said:

I say, we create forms of ourselves as that race--let's call em avatars--and send them out to assimilate the alien culture from the inside out.

BOOSH!

Click to expand...

What if they're tasty? Then we could bring make organic skin suits for ourselves and then pretend to benevolently visit their planet, all the while harvesting them for food.

Make peaceful contact, keeping in mind the possibility for the spread of disease on both sides of the racial divide. If they react poorly, back off and leave them be unless they become a threat. Considering we're still dealing with the implications of the Renaissance 400 years afterward, I feel like it might take a similar amount of time for our hypothetical alien race to adjust their worldview to include us outsiders.

Hell, for that matter we'll probably have the same culture-shaking readjustment to make.

Leave them alone. Humanity has proven that it doesn't have sufficient forethought to make that kind of contact a good idea.

Set up a covert outpost to study the aliens - that is, if they are at such as technical level their attempts at opening a hydraulic door will involve throwing sticks at it. Find out if their biosphere is one humans can survive in, get samples to study the effects of common cold or Antaresian Explosive Syphilis to establish whether one group will be wiped out by the others' diseases.

Mining and such permitted if and only if there is no contact with alien lifeforms (I'm thinking of mobile mining bases here). Dig and leave. Come back when they invent spaceflight.

Or the Finnish approach: Go greet them, get them drunk and see if they survive a sauna.

Don't fuck with them.

The school this took place in? My College, Stockton, a public liberal arts college

North_Ranger said:

Mining and such permitted if and only if there is no contact with alien lifeforms (I'm thinking of mobile mining bases here). Dig and leave. Come back when they invent spaceflight.

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If we mine all their resources, how can they be expected to develop spaceflight?

Soliloquy;314222][quote=North_Ranger said:

Mining and such permitted if and only if there is no contact with alien lifeforms (I'm thinking of mobile mining bases here). Dig and leave. Come back when they invent spaceflight.

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If we mine all their resources, how can they be expected to develop spaceflight?[/QUOTE]

Your doublethink is rusty, friend.

Gill Kaiser said:

Leave them alone. Humanity has proven that it doesn't have sufficient forethought to make that kind of contact a good idea.

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x2

Draxo;314233][quote=Gill Kaiser said:

Leave them alone. Humanity has proven that it doesn't have sufficient forethought to make that kind of contact a good idea.

Click to expand...

x2[/QUOTE]

Agreed. I'm in the same boat, and tend to agree with Carl Sagan's thought that, "...if life is found on Mars, even if it is microbial life, I believe we should leave it be. Mars is for the Martians."

Are they hot?

Rob King said:

Make peaceful contact, keeping in mind the possibility for the spread of disease on both sides of the racial divide.

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A little more research should be done before making statements like this.

Necronic said:

Are they hot?

Click to expand...

BlackCrossCrusader;314257][quote=Rob King said:

Make peaceful contact, keeping in mind the possibility for the spread of disease on both sides of the racial divide.

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A little more research should be done before making statements like this.[/QUOTE]

How do you mean?

See, my answer is pretty simple: Try'n make friends.

I think that'd be AWESOME. I'd certainly want that if the positions were reversed.

'Course, we might still have to kill 'em, you know, if they got snarky or sumfin'. But...I'd try to make friends first.

Rob King;314262][quote=BlackCrossCrusader;314257][quote=Rob King said:

Make peaceful contact, keeping in mind the possibility for the spread of disease on both sides of the racial divide.

Click to expand...

A little more research should be done before making statements like this.[/QUOTE]

How do you mean?[/QUOTE]

Bacteria and viruses evolved on a foreign planet would not be compatible with our genetic structure, unless it had an enviroment that closely mirrored our own.

Gift them some blankets... then come back when the pox killed them off...



But seriously, the only resources you couldn't just get way easier from dead planets etc. would be biological ones...


BlackCrossCrusader

Why would that matter so much for bacteria... one would think at least some would just be able to eat stuff from us if they're also carbon based.

Genocide and slavery. Duh?

@Li3n said:

Gift them some blankets... then come back when the pox killed them off...



But seriously, the only resources you couldn't just get way easier from dead planets etc. would be biological ones...


BlackCrossCrusader

Why would that matter so much for bacteria... one would think at least some would just be able to eat stuff from us if they're also carbon based.

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Didn't I just say unless their enviroment mirrored our own?

I think we should descend over their major cities and wait for them to make contact before destroying anything that looks like a culturally-significant landmark (plus a few suburbs for good measure). Move on to the smaller settlements, rinse, repeat. For added fun, make sure that there's an easily-decipherable countdown to big-laser-death time.

The only problems I can see are that we would have to ensure that our computers' firewalls are up to date and our annihilation-beams have recently been redneck-proofed. Other that, just sit back, laugh, and shoot that green shit at them until they give up. Then ??????, then profit.

Augh, I hate my stupid internet connection!

BlackCrossCrusader;314272][quote=Rob King;314262][quote=BlackCrossCrusader;314257][quote=Rob King said:

Make peaceful contact, keeping in mind the possibility for the spread of disease on both sides of the racial divide.

Click to expand...

A little more research should be done before making statements like this.[/QUOTE]

How do you mean?[/QUOTE]

Bacteria and viruses evolved on a foreign planet would not be compatible with our genetic structure, unless it had an environment that closely mirrored our own.[/QUOTE]

While I understand what you're saying, I seriously doubt we would have complete protection. Sure, viruses would look at us strange life forms and not be able to figure it out for a bit, [Ian Malcolm]but life ... finds a way[/Ian Malcolm]. If nothing is ready to jump on us the day we arrive, it won't be long before something evolves to.

Besides, it won't kill anyone to be careful. But it just might kill us not to.

Spend all day hovering out above their most rural areas and steal some farm animals or abduct, probe, and then return one of their farmers every year or two. Oh, and draw funny shapes in their food.

I mean, it's what all the aliens do it to us, right? We should pay it forward.

I say put something big and shiny in polar orbit, when they come up and sniff at it, it esplodes before they get to it. Then something across their system starts shining and sending out radio/laser calls.

They get to it and...
...it esplodes. At this point something 50 system diameters away starts howling. They get there and, there's a map to where we'll meet them.

Either we meet a friend, or we have a enemy with a decent chance to take us on. Either way, good times.

Rob King;314288][quote=BlackCrossCrusader;314272][quote=Rob King;314262][quote=BlackCrossCrusader;314257][quote=Rob King said:

Make peaceful contact, keeping in mind the possibility for the spread of disease on both sides of the racial divide.

Click to expand...

A little more research should be done before making statements like this.[/QUOTE]

How do you mean?[/QUOTE]

Bacteria and viruses evolved on a foreign planet would not be compatible with our genetic structure, unless it had an environment that closely mirrored our own.[/QUOTE]

While I understand what you're saying, I seriously doubt we would have complete protection. Sure, viruses would look at us strange life forms and not be able to figure it out for a bit, [Ian Malcolm]but life ... finds a way[/Ian Malcolm]. If nothing is ready to jump on us the day we arrive, it won't be long before something evolves to.

Besides, it won't kill anyone to be careful. But it just might kill us not to.[/QUOTE]

Wrong again!

Life also chooses the simplest way to exist. Assuming they have the capabilities to metabolize the nutrients from the indigenious inhabitants, evolving a method to consume our cells would be risky, wasteful, and time consuming. As long as their food source remained abundant, bacteria will continue on as usual.

What you really want to be afraid of is any interaction between the bacteria WE bring and the bacteria already present.

RocketGirl said:

See, my answer is pretty simple: Try'n make friends.

I think that'd be AWESOME. I'd certainly want that if the positions were reversed.

'Course, we might still have to kill 'em, you know, if they got snarky or sumfin'. But...I'd try to make friends first.

Click to expand...

I agree with this.

No one says we can't kill 'em later if they get too frisky.

And not in a good way.

Hardly there would be any need to mine the place, but if it was necessary, I would say to try peacefull contact after sometime analising they culture.

If there is no need to set foot on the planet I would suggest to just... not do it, the sheer chaos caused by a peacefull contact would likely to cause more harm than good.

Pretty sure that the only way we're going to find another living species is by finding that their planet is in the way of our hyperspace route and must be destroyed.

Of course we'll destroy it, but only after posting notice in the hyperspace lane authority 30 days prior.

I guess it depends on how less advanced we're talking. I've been watching the shit out of Stagate SG1 on hulu, so when I initially read the prompt I thought of human like creatures that are simply less advanced technologically, as if in the dark ages or even cavemen or something. If that were the case, I'd want to help them and perhaps bring them up to a level similar to our own. Certainly not all at once, and not in a way that could bite us in the ass, but we could educate them, introduce modern medicine and stuff in exchange for resources.


If it's an animal life I'd probably want to leave them alone, or at least like any other wild animal we would encounter on earth. I'd want to impede their evolution and habitat as little as possible.

Even lower forms of life like bacteria or something I'm not sure how I would feel about our messing with them. Certainly I could understand experiments to determine if they're safe to be around and if they have any use to us. Otherwise I'd say treat it like we would anything else of the same level.

phil said:

I guess it depends on how less advanced we're talking. I've been watching the shit out of Stagate SG1 on hulu, so when I initially read the prompt I thought of human like creatures that are simply less advanced technologically, as if in the dark ages or even cavemen or something. If that were the case, I'd want to help them and perhaps bring them up to a level similar to our own. Certainly not all at once, and not in a way that could bite us in the ass, but we could educate them, introduce modern medicine and stuff in exchange for resources.


If it's an animal life I'd probably want to leave them alone, or at least like any other wild animal we would encounter on earth. I'd want to impede their evolution and habitat as little as possible.

Click to expand...

How would you be able to tell the difference?

Share sexual positions with 'em.

Allen said:

I guess it depends on how less advanced we're talking. I've been watching the shit out of Stagate SG1 on hulu, so when I initially read the prompt I thought of human like creatures that are simply less advanced technologically, as if in the dark ages or even cavemen or something. If that were the case, I'd want to help them and perhaps bring them up to a level similar to our own. Certainly not all at once, and not in a way that could bite us in the ass, but we could educate them, introduce modern medicine and stuff in exchange for resources.


If it's an animal life I'd probably want to leave them alone, or at least like any other wild animal we would encounter on earth. I'd want to impede their evolution and habitat as little as possible.

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How would you be able to tell the difference?[/QUOTE]

Between advanced aliens or alien animals?

I'd think it would be somewhat obvious I guess. I mean if they use some kind of tools, or perhaps something that appears to be a language or some kind of social structure. I guess the major flaw though is just if these aliens are in that stage of their development where the line between just being a really smart animal and being something mostly different is somewhat blurred. Like when humans stopped being really kick ass monkeys and start being humans, you know? So long as we don't encounter the aliens at that stage in their evolution and or development or whatever, then I guess we would be able to differentiate them from animals.

Plus if there's one type of alien animal on this planet, there would probably be others as well, so we would have something to compare them too a little better.

What if they don't need tools? What if they simply choose to live life simply? You can't tell the difference - it's arbitrary.

Spotting humans are easy though.




Just like Earthgirls!

How "less advanced" are we talking here? If they've at least gotten to television, I'd like to see what they've got for programming - if they've managed to stave off the demonic influence of reality-television, I say we make every effort to hide our own existence from them, and record and rebroadcast their shows with subtitles or something. See what they come up with. If they ever come up with it on their own, THEN we announce our presence to them - no point in holding it off any longer.

Hmm...so that's why the aliens visiting us are leaving us alone. There's obviously something much worse than reality television that they've come across, and hope not to spread to our culture...

I'm just curious as to why WolfofOdin's class all seemed to agree on the "rob them and eat them" stance.

Seriously, saying it's okay because they're not human? I mean, that doesn't seem too terribly far beyond saying it's okay to oppress some other racial group because they're not part of your own.


And, on a related note:

WolfOfOdin said:

The school this took place in? My College, Stockton, a public liberal arts college

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Such hungry students that they are willing to eat another possibly sentient species. Or is this a meaning of liberal I had not been officially told of?

Perhaps my bacon cloning idea would catch on with them then, and bring a whole new meaning to Campbells soup...

BlackCrossCrusader said:

Didn't I just say unless their enviroment mirrored our own?

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I didn't think you where being as general as it being carbon based, especially since we don't know of any other way life would work (and the educated guesses say it's unlikely the non-carbon based aliens would be compatible with any of the options offered here).

stienman said:

What if they don't need tools? What if they simply choose to live life simply? You can't tell the difference - it's arbitrary.

Click to expand...

Then we're screwed:



unless they're tree hugging hippies.

@Li3n said:

Click to expand...

Ay Macarena!

ElJuski said:

I say, we create forms of ourselves as that race--let's call em avatars--and send them out to assimilate the alien culture from the inside out.

BOOSH!

Click to expand...

Careful, I hear James Cameron lurks in bushes listening to people's ideas about just this sort of thing...

---------- Post added at 11:28 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:27 AM ----------

WolfOfOdin said:

We had this discussion some years back in one of my classes, and thought it'd be nice to see what my adopted Intarwebz home thinks of it.

So, what would you guys do if, after we've perfected spaceflight and the like, we come across a less advanced alien species?

The overwhelming consensus in my class was :They're not human, take the minerals and either turn them into food or dust particles"

I now turn this over to you

Click to expand...

Silly boy. This was already done. They were called Native Americans.

If they were harboring a rare mineral that we needed to power our technology and save our dying planet and they resisted....kill them all.

I would not stand to see humanity perish so another race can survive. Mankind takes priority over Xenos scum.

Deschain said:

If they were harboring a rare mineral that we needed to power our technology and save our dying planet and they resisted....kill them all.

I would not stand to see humanity perish so another race can survive. Mankind takes priority over Xenos scum.

Click to expand...

but, what if they look like tiny cute kittens?

Well whatever world power finds them first should probably start shipping them back to our other colonies in order to use them as a labor force. We'll find allies among the first tribes we make contact with and then send expeditions planet side to gather more xenos. We have to worry about whatever savage beasts and people are on the planet so these expeditions will probably be majorly native. Soon enough some lib-jerks will complain and that will probably put a hamper on the shipments, along with any trouble the natives give us, we'll presumably move thousands and thousands to account for those who don't survive the journey... Eventually there will probably be one society so firmly rooted in the indentured servants that they can't do without them, probably a colony, while the rest of the main planets have moved on or illegalized it. On some of these colonies the xenos may rise up and we'll have to send people to put them down, on others strife may break out among the owners of the aliens and the non owners, this will probably be poor for the economy and population of these outlying planets.

Soliloquy said:

I'm just curious as to why WolfofOdin's class all seemed to agree on the "rob them and eat them" stance.

Seriously, saying it's okay because they're not human? I mean, that doesn't seem too terribly far beyond saying it's okay to oppress some other racial group because they're not part of your own.

Click to expand...

Yes. Seriously, who are these people, a bunch of beer-swilling rednecks?

We present them with all of our greatest cultural achiements and judge them based on how they react to them.

They're still a dangerous, savage child race.

Only if they choose Shemp.

Gill Kaiser;314691][quote=Soliloquy said:

I'm just curious as to why WolfofOdin's class all seemed to agree on the "rob them and eat them" stance.

Seriously, saying it's okay because they're not human? I mean, that doesn't seem too terribly far beyond saying it's okay to oppress some other racial group because they're not part of your own.

Click to expand...

Yes. Seriously, who are these people, a bunch of beer-swilling rednecks?[/QUOTE]

It's a disturbingly common frame of mine. "They're not us, so we're not subject to morality when dealing with them." I've seen people say that's okay simply because someone is from another nation. "Foreigners have no rights." Not on a subject of illegal immigration, but anyone who's from somewhere else.

This is where we get those little abandoned towns where the population is just one guy sitting on a roof with a shotgun. Eventually you build enough walls of "us" and "them" that you get down to "me" and "everyone else".

Seriously, saying it's okay because they're not human? I mean, that doesn't seem too terribly far beyond saying it's okay to oppress some other racial group because they're not part of your own.

Click to expand...

It's not because they're not human. It's because they're not us. It applies to whether it's your family, your state, nation, world, or species. If it comes down to a choice between whether your species or theirs, then it would be a great crime to condemn theirs, but an even worse to condemn yours. If the Na'vi truly believed in their cause and were willingly to stand in between humanity and survival, then I am sure they can understand agree with our course of action.

Also:

"Ender, believe me, there's a century of discussion on this very subject. Nobody knows the answer. When it comes down to it, though, the real decision is inevitable: If one of us has to be destroyed, let's make damn sure we're the ones alive at the end. Our genes won't let us decide any other way. Nature can't evolve a species that hasn't a will to survive. Individuals might be bred to sacrifice themselves, but a race as a whole can never decide to cease to exist. So if we can we'll kill every last one of the buggers, and if they can they'll kill every last one of us."

Deschain said:

"Ender, believe me, there's a century of discussion on this very subject. Nobody knows the answer. When it comes down to it, though, the real decision is inevitable: If one of us has to be destroyed, let's make damn sure we're the ones alive at the end. Our genes won't let us decide any other way. Nature can't evolve a species that hasn't a will to survive. Individuals might be bred to sacrifice themselves, but a race as a whole can never decide to cease to exist. So if we can we'll kill every last one of the buggers, and if they can they'll kill every last one of us."

Click to expand...

Aye, but look at the guy who wrote that. He's not exactly renowned for his tolerant beliefs.

Green_Lantern;314682][quote=Deschain said:

If they were harboring a rare mineral that we needed to power our technology and save our dying planet and they resisted....kill them all.

I would not stand to see humanity perish so another race can survive. Mankind takes priority over Xenos scum.

Click to expand...

but, what if they look like tiny cute kittens?[/QUOTE]

Clearly Slaaneshi kittens. BURN THEM WITH FIRE!!

But he's right.

I think I might have to rephrase my MA Thesis end notes... All this talk about "killin' dem aliens" makes the postcolonial optimist in me go

North_Ranger said:

I think I might have to rephrase my MA Thesis end notes... All this talk about "killin' dem aliens" makes the postcolonial optimist in me go

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To be fair mine was a direct parody of the American slave trade.

Hey...I advocated Golden Ruling them. :humph:

And I was all for getting my bone on.

If they're considerably less advanced than us, then why'd we have to annihilate them in order to grab the goodies? Even assuming they're not prepared to negotiate, we could just cripple 'em militarily and then politely ask them to reconsider. Just because you desperately need to take something from someone, there's no call for being unnecessarily sadistic about it.

Iaculus said:

If they're considerably less advanced than us, then why'd we have to annihilate them in order to grab the goodies? Even assuming they're not prepared to negotiate, we could just cripple 'em militarily and then politely ask them to reconsider. Just because you desperately need to take something from someone, there's no call for being unnecessarily sadistic about it.

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We could always rape the materials out of them...

What we do is this:
A) Don't go down ourselves. Send a "Rosetta Stone" with three of our most prominent language that mixes with theirs.

B) Tell them what we are and who we are IE giant 2001 a space odyessy monolith.

c)Come back at incriments and monitor them remotely, but tell them we are monitoring them remotely.

D) Tell them that whenever they have managed world peace for 100 years on their planet that we'll come and offer technological advances.

Le Quack said:

D) Tell them that whenever they have managed world peace for 100 years on their planet that we'll come and offer technological advances.

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So wait until they're defenseless or ahead of us?

That's what my idea does.


"hey someone's out there."
"they are messing with us."
"ok, that's it lets go see them and..."

See, I'd like someone to re-work the end of Contact like that. Jodie Foster goes through the funky wormhole thingy, gets to the alien world, her stupid dad appears, looks right in the in the eyes and goes, "Ellie...

"...THE ARISTOCRATS!"

Heh.

I can't believe this hasn't been posted...

Deschain said:

But he's right.

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Yes, if we don't kill the gays they will kill us... there's no other alternative.

The argument is retarded unless we're talking about a race that somehow still has the power to destroy us even if we reduce their numbers to the minimum required for a viable gene pool or there's some sort of convoluted reason why one can't live if the other does, both of which are very unlikely situations.

Allen said:

And I was all for getting my bone on.

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Oh, you know that there'll be plenty of alien sex in between the genocide...

Man, being half English and half Norwegian my instincts are to go with the conquering or pillage and raping and hope they're not as good at genocide and war as we are.

... why do I feel like I am the only one who wants to obey the Prime Directive

FnordBear said:

... why do I feel like I am the only one who wants to obey the Prime Directive

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possible because it only exists to be broken?

---------- Post added at 12:31 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:28 PM ----------

"@Li3n said:

Deschain said:

But he's right.

Click to expand...

Yes, if we don't kill the gays they will kill us... there's no other alternative.

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HOW DID YOU KNOW OURS PLANS?

@Li3n said:

The argument is retarded unless we're talking about a race that somehow still has the power to destroy us even if we reduce their numbers to the minimum required for a viable gene pool or there's some sort of convoluted reason why one can't live if the other does, both of which are very unlikely situations.

Click to expand...

This so much. I understand a need to fight and subjugation, but why would we need to genocide a species that is light-years away in cold space? Aren't we better than mere "survivors by violence" anyway?

"@Li3n said:

Allen said:

And I was all for getting my bone on.

Click to expand...

Oh, you know that there'll be plenty of alien sex in between the genocide...

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Aliens/Human sex are unatural and against GOD WILL!

"Is this a stand up fight sir, or another bug hunt?"

Yes, if we don't kill the gays they will kill us... there's no other alternative.

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Apparently according to the plot, human race -> on its way to extinction if we don't get more unobtanium. So huh, sounds about right.

I like how you switched it to gays suddenly. Very red herring of you. 0/10.

Travel down to the surface and show off our technology, so they worship us as gods.

Have them build giant shrines and temples dedicated to us.

Then use the giant temples as breeding grounds for dangerous creatures we can hunt for sport.

Sell movie rights to Michael Bay.

Deschain said:

Yes, if we don't kill the gays they will kill us... there's no other alternative.

Click to expand...

Apparently according to the plot, human race -> on its way to extinction if we don't get more unobtanium. So huh, sounds about right.

I like how you switched it to gays suddenly. Very red herring of you. 0/10.

Click to expand...

Waaait, so the gays aren't going to doom us to extinction by their continued existence?

Are you suggesting that Jack Chick is wrong, boyo?

Deschain said:

Yes, if we don't kill the gays they will kill us... there's no other alternative.

Click to expand...

Apparently according to the plot, human race -> on its way to extinction if we don't get more unobtanium. So huh, sounds about right.

I like how you switched it to gays suddenly. Very red herring of you. 0/10.

Click to expand...

You kind of started it by bringing up Orson Scott Card.

Anyway, there's been plenty of Prime Directive advocation here. Me and a few others were all for leaving them alone. I guess I wouldn't be adverse to some kind of 2001 Monolith breadcrumb trail arrangement, since it can't hurt them and its actuation precludes a certain level of social and technological advancement on their part.

Gill Kaiser;315000][quote=Deschain said:

Yes, if we don't kill the gays they will kill us... there's no other alternative.

Click to expand...

Apparently according to the plot, human race -> on its way to extinction if we don't get more unobtanium. So huh, sounds about right.

I like how you switched it to gays suddenly. Very red herring of you. 0/10.

Click to expand...

You kind of started it by bringing up Orson Scott Card.

[/QUOTE]

who is that? and what he has to do with it?

Green_Lantern;315001][quote=Gill Kaiser;315000][quote=Deschain said:

Yes, if we don't kill the gays they will kill us... there's no other alternative.

Click to expand...

Apparently according to the plot, human race -> on its way to extinction if we don't get more unobtanium. So huh, sounds about right.

I like how you switched it to gays suddenly. Very red herring of you. 0/10.

Click to expand...

You kind of started it by bringing up Orson Scott Card.

[/QUOTE]

who is that? and what he has to do with it?[/QUOTE]

He's an anti-gay lobbyist/sci-fi writer. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orson_Scott_Card#Homosexuality

I guess he believes that all gay people are the products of abuse and molestation and that gay marriage will be the destruction of society and he's part of the board of directors for the Nation Organization for Marriage (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Organization_for_Marriage). He's a dick.

The fact that he is bigoted doesn't change the fact that he is one of the greatest sci-fi writers of the last century.

I agree with the quote about Ender. If it comes down to us or them, which is unlikely sure, but still I will choose us.

HoboNinja said:

The fact that he is bigoted doesn't change the fact that he is one of the greatest sci-fi writers of the last century.

I agree with the quote about Ender. If it comes down to us or them, which is unlikely sure, but still I will choose us.

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The corollary, of course, is that you have to do your damndest to ensure that there isn't a third option - and there usually is.

HoboNinja said:

The fact that he is bigoted doesn't change the fact that he is one of the greatest sci-fi writers of the last century.

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Also being one of the greatest sci-fi writers, it doesn't change that he is a bigoted. Praise his writting skills if you must, it doesn't make him any less a bad person.

Iaculus;315011][quote=HoboNinja said:

I agree with the quote about Ender. If it comes down to us or them, which is unlikely sure, but still I will choose us.

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The corollary, of course, is that you have to do your damndest to ensure that there isn't a third option - and there usually is.[/QUOTE]

Back on topic? Yes, it is hard to believe that complete genocide would be the only option in any realistic cenario.

FnordBear said:

... why do I feel like I am the only one who wants to obey the Prime Directive

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Because the Prime Directive is bollocks.

A policy of non-interference is, frankly, hubris in my never-humble opinion.

RocketGirl;315021][quote=FnordBear said:

... why do I feel like I am the only one who wants to obey the Prime Directive

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Because the Prime Directive is bollocks.

A policy of non-interference is, frankly, hubris in my never-humble opinion.[/QUOTE]

plus, it is BORING.

Green_Lantern;315025][quote=RocketGirl;315021][quote=FnordBear said:

... why do I feel like I am the only one who wants to obey the Prime Directive

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Because the Prime Directive is bollocks.

A policy of non-interference is, frankly, hubris in my never-humble opinion.[/QUOTE]

plus, it is BORING.[/QUOTE]

And doesn't involve boinking aliens

Deschain said:

Yes, if we don't kill the gays they will kill us... there's no other alternative.

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Apparently according to the plot, human race -> on its way to extinction if we don't get more unobtanium. So huh, sounds about right.

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And we all know that them giving it to us willingly and genocide are the only options... if only they had taken the shiny beads... (the plot works as long as they just stick to taking the stuff by violence, with no planned extermination).

Deschain said:

I like how you switched it to gays suddenly. Very red herring of you. 0/10.

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Travel down to the surface and show off our technology, so they worship us as gods.

Have them build giant shrines and temples dedicated to us.

Then use the giant temples as breeding grounds for dangerous creatures we can hunt for sport.

Sell movie rights to Michael Bay.

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Watch as he gets sued into oblivion by George Lucas.

Aliens/Human sex are unatural and against GOD WILL!

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And i'm sure everyone will be condemning it while having their half-alien kids do house chores instead of working the fields/mines etc.

The fact that he is bigoted doesn't change the fact that he is one of the greatest sci-fi writers of the last century.

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Even if he is a bigot (which I was previously unaware of), it does not mean he cannot be right. It just means that most of his views will be slanted.

Yes, if we don't kill the gays they will kill us... there's no other alternative.

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Your statement, not mine. I am describing a scenario similar to Ender's Game, either we die off, or we eliminate them. Gays do not fall into that category, unless you happen to be one of those people who believe homosexuality is a transmittable disease that is going to 'destroy society as we know it'. I certainly don't believe so, so bringing up gays in this thread is completely unnecessary.

I apologize for bringing Avatar into this thread, when this is clearly supposed to encompass a larger spectrum of scenarios. My thoughts on a race that has no warlike intentions towards us, whose eminent destruction is not key to our survival (AKA not Ender's Game nor Avatar) is that we should mentor them in such a fashion that does not create an African scenario. We will become their teachers and their mentors, and in time, perhaps they can become our friends.

I dunno, I think the Eternal Doctrine method of species interaction is safest for us.

Frankie said:

I dunno, I think the Eternal Doctrine method of species interaction is safest for us.

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How many people on here do you think get that reference without looking it up? I'll admit, it's probably higher than the population at large, but still, even with your avatar, it's damned obscure!

Honestly, I'd like humanity to take the smart path and just tell em we are there and help then learn things that are on their level, respect their culture and only open up trade that is benificial to us and them both.

In all reality, I find it hard to believe humanity will ever unite under a single banner. So it'll probably end up a mining colony of one of Earths factions and will be fought over / be destroyed sooner or later.

I mean, just look at Africa and the insane amount of mistakes we've made there in the past and are still making to this day. There is no way humanity is up for a peaceful coexistance with a species that can't put up a serious fight.

We'll get in a war with them and as long as we don't kick each other's asses too much or do too many terrible things, eventually it'll cool down and we'll be like, "Fine. You guys can stay. Just don't like...mess too many things up ok?"

Think Mass Effect, the Human-Turian war.

Deschain said:

Yes, if we don't kill the gays they will kill us... there's no other alternative.

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Your statement, not mine. I am describing a scenario similar to Ender's Game, either we die off, or we eliminate them. Gays do not fall into that category, unless you happen to be one of those people who believe homosexuality is a transmittable disease that is going to 'destroy society as we know it'. I certainly don't believe so, so bringing up gays in this thread is completely unnecessary.

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So my point only works if ether me or you is Orson Scott Card?! Oh yeah, i'm standing by it.

I'm terribly sorry that you agree with him, but I guess I can't change your opinion.

I see your doublefacepalm and raise you a brainfist.

I see your brainfist and raise you blue skinned nanomonkeys iron man:



check the writter

So... what do i win?

Eriol;315129][quote=Frankie said:

I dunno, I think the Eternal Doctrine method of species interaction is safest for us.

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How many people on here do you think get that reference without looking it up? I'll admit, it's probably higher than the population at large, but still, even with your avatar, it's damned obscure![/QUOTE]

Yeah, I know, I figured, maybe Heaven will notice, no one else.

The real question is how many people will look it up... i did.

I think the 2001 aliens had the right of it. Leaving stepping stones that can only be detected once a race has become sufficiently advanced is a great way of combining some aspects of the Prime Directive with some chance of making friends with another species.

I remember reading a synopsis somewhere about the race that seeded life on Earth coming back and telling us that they where disappointed in our ability to make war... then the whole world disarms etc.... and it turns out they where disappointed that our ability to make war wasn't greater.

@Li3n said:

The real question is how many people will look it up... i did.

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I remember that, not the name I had to look that up, but I had a friend that made me play that years and years ago.

Twitch;315194][quote=@Li3n said:

The real question is how many people will look it up... i did.

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I remember that, not the name I had to look that up, but I had a friend that made me play that years and years ago.[/QUOTE]

I tried a quick google search and still don't know what it is ^^

It was just me being a dork, it's not worth your time to look up.

Frankie said:

It was just me being a dork, it's not worth your time to look up.

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now you are just teasing.

@Li3n said:

I remember reading a synopsis somewhere about the race that seeded life on Earth coming back and telling us that they where disappointed in our ability to make war... then the whole world disarms etc.... and it turns out they where disappointed that our ability to make war wasn't greater.

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Also a "The New Twilight Zone" episode starring John Glover.

Twitch said:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Control

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Is the game any good? I am a fan of old school games but this seems like a 'way back' on computer games.

I am in the market to find a good star system game where you can enslave alien races. Any suggestions?

LordRavage;315287][quote=Twitch said:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Control

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Is the game any good? I am a fan of old school games but this seems like a 'way back' on computer games.[/quote]

StarControl 2 is eight flavors of awesome.
There'z an open-source port to modern-day systems, people dig it so much: http://sc2.sourceforge.net/

I am in the market to find a good star system game where you can enslave alien races. Any suggestions?

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Master of Orion 2.

RocketGirl said:

Master of Orion 2.

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Seconded. Though I find committing genocide is a much better fit for my playstyle.

Dusty668 said:

Also a \"The New Twilight Zone\" episode starring John Glover.

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Got a youtube link or something?!

Twitch said:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Control

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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eternal_Doctrine#Ur-Quan_Kohr-Ah

And i have to say, that's a good doctrine.

RocketGirl;315464][quote=LordRavage;315287][quote=Twitch said:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Control

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Is the game any good? I am a fan of old school games but this seems like a 'way back' on computer games.[/quote]

StarControl 2 is eight flavors of awesome.
There'z an open-source port to modern-day systems, people dig it so much: http://sc2.sourceforge.net/

I am in the market to find a good star system game where you can enslave alien races. Any suggestions?

Click to expand...

Master of Orion 2.[/QUOTE]

I have Masters of Orion 2. I have played that game for years. I have been looking for something along those lines tho.

MoO2....I love the part where you get to blast planets to dust. I never get tired of it. I have wiped out entire empires by the click of my mouse.

I still may DL Star Control 2.....just for the LoLs.

Someone really needs to make a good quality modern Elite clone. The X games are the closest, but they have some serious flaws.