Export thread

Lying Bastard said:

Yeah but that just means you won't be hung over when your loved ones show up.

Click to expand...

Andromache;366629][QUOTE=Thread Necromancer said:

oh? but I will be.

*cheers*

Click to expand...

dead yet?[/QUOTE]


Almost my dear. It was an option I considered.

A lot has happened to me over this last week. I'm breaking my forum silence now because I feel I have to. I wanted to break it before with Crones drawing thread, I really would like one of my own. But I digress. That's not what this thread is about.

Firstly. Allow me to first say this:

This is not a pity thread!

It's also not a joke.

This is a thread I must make to come to terms with certain things in my life. Mainly that, I am an alcoholic.

I am not going to go into details about how this realization has been forced upon me but I will make this thread because as I have recently learned the first step, after admitting you have a problem, is coming clean and being open with the people in your life. And you people are in my life. Admittedly I'm not a big part of yours but I do consider our little community a big part of mine.

Anyhow, as all is said and done, I have to make this thread. I thank you for taking the time to read it. You may now go about your day.

Also, in before get a blog and LOLZ you can't handle your liquor!!!HAHAHA!!

by the way, I can handle my liquor fine. mine, yours, theirs, all of the above. So much so that my life has begun to revolve around it. Hence the problem.

If you'll excuse me now, I'll be on my way to my first AA meeting.

Way to go man. Glad you are getting the help you need. No pity here, just admiration that you are taking the steps that you must.

Good luck.

Also, I'll totally draw you. PM a pic, and I'll bump shego's outta the queue

I wish you all the luck in the world. We've had alcoholics in the family, and it's a long and hard road. I am sure you can overcome it. You'll be in my thoughts, TN. :hug:

Good luck mate. You can always enjoy your liquor. The moderation is the hard part. I'm glad you are working toward that.

Good luck and in a weird way, I offer my congrats, as it isn't easy to say these things. I've never been there myself but I've family and family friends who have gone through it. If their experience is any indication, it's a challenging process.

I hope it works out for you.

I wish you the best of luck in your endeavor.

Chibibar said:

Good luck mate. You can always enjoy your liquor. The moderation is the hard part. I'm glad you are working toward that.

Click to expand...

In order to recover alcoholics can't have alcohol at all. They aren't working towards moderation they work towards complete abstinence from alcohol. It's really an all or nothing kind of thing.

I have my doubts about the effectiveness of AA... Blame Penn and Teller for that.

But my doubts about you, Necromancer? None whatsoever. It takes guts to admit that you have a problem, and I wish you all the best in your efforts to get rid of or control said problem. If we can do anything to keep you sober, let us know.

My father is an alcoholic (well, he doesn't drink much any more, but that's mostly because the asbestos poisoning means he can't breath very well and he had to give up quite a few vices).

Dude, if anyone gives you shit about this I'll kick them in the nuts. It took a lot of balls to come forward and talk about it. I'm damned glad that you reached the conclusion before something truly bad happened.

Stay strong and we'll be your support group as you need it.

North_Ranger said:

I have my doubts about the effectiveness of AA... Blame Penn and Teller for that.

But my doubts about you, Necromancer? None whatsoever. It takes guts to admit that you have a problem, and I wish you all the best in your efforts to get rid of or control said problem. If we can do anything to keep you sober, let us know.

Click to expand...

AA is an excellent program. Penn and Teller can eat my ass.

Good for you dude.

If you're ever in town, give me a ring and we'll shoot the shit and have a beer....oh shi....

makare1;367868][QUOTE=North_Ranger said:

I have my doubts about the effectiveness of AA... Blame Penn and Teller for that.

But my doubts about you, Necromancer? None whatsoever. It takes guts to admit that you have a problem, and I wish you all the best in your efforts to get rid of or control said problem. If we can do anything to keep you sober, let us know.

Click to expand...

AA is an excellent program. Penn and Teller can eat my ass.[/QUOTE]

If I start calling things bullshit do I get the same offer?

Alcohol was destroying my father. When he admitted to having a problem, the whole family was behind him. He hasnt touched the stuff in about ten years and he is much better for it. The support was what he needed and he got it.

If you need to talk it out and get some support, I am sure myself and judging from the responses, many people here would be more then willing to lend a shoulder and an ear.

Dave;367874][QUOTE=makare1;367868][QUOTE=North_Ranger said:

I have my doubts about the effectiveness of AA... Blame Penn and Teller for that.

But my doubts about you, Necromancer? None whatsoever. It takes guts to admit that you have a problem, and I wish you all the best in your efforts to get rid of or control said problem. If we can do anything to keep you sober, let us know.

Click to expand...

AA is an excellent program. Penn and Teller can eat my ass.[/QUOTE]

If I start calling things bullshit do I get the same offer? [/QUOTE]

.

I have to admit I've never seen how somebody becomes an alcoholic. I've had fun while drunk, I've enjoyed the feeling of being completely wasted. But even then it seemed really stupid not something I would wrap my life around.

Course seeing my dad drinking himself to oblivion and finding the bottles when the housekeeper fell off the wagon hard made the entire thing make even less sense.

I'm glad your getting help Nec just remember to stay on the program because no matter how much not drinking sucks falling off the wagon isn't the answer.

I don't know if this is appropiate, but congrats for taking this first, hard steps. I think that [Fail] is seriously misplaced.

Best of luck to you in this.

Dave;367874][QUOTE=makare1;367868][QUOTE=North_Ranger said:

I have my doubts about the effectiveness of AA... Blame Penn and Teller for that.

But my doubts about you, Necromancer? None whatsoever. It takes guts to admit that you have a problem, and I wish you all the best in your efforts to get rid of or control said problem. If we can do anything to keep you sober, let us know.

Click to expand...

AA is an excellent program. Penn and Teller can eat my ass.[/QUOTE]

If I start calling things bullshit do I get the same offer? [/QUOTE]

I always suspected.


On topic. If you can afford it actually going to rehab would help and while it's great to have friends and family to support you, having the support of an AA group is invaluable.

makare1;367853][QUOTE=Chibibar said:

Good luck mate. You can always enjoy your liquor. The moderation is the hard part. I'm glad you are working toward that.

Click to expand...

In order to recover alcoholics can't have alcohol at all. They aren't working towards moderation they work towards complete abstinence from alcohol. It's really an all or nothing kind of thing.[/QUOTE]

ah. I don't have any alcoholic (thank goodness) in my family. We are mostly workaholic.

Well Necro, admitting is a first step. I'll have your back on this good luck mate.

Chibibar;367883][QUOTE=makare1;367853][QUOTE=Chibibar said:

Good luck mate. You can always enjoy your liquor. The moderation is the hard part. I'm glad you are working toward that.

Click to expand...

In order to recover alcoholics can't have alcohol at all. They aren't working towards moderation they work towards complete abstinence from alcohol. It's really an all or nothing kind of thing.[/QUOTE]

ah. I don't have any alcoholic (thank goodness) in my family. We are mostly workaholic.

Well Necro, admitting is a first step. I'll have your back on this good luck mate.[/QUOTE]

The therapy for workaholics involves lots of heroine.

Glad you're getting the help you need. Take care of yourself, ok?

Best of lucks with vanquishing this, Necro. Just spend more time here with us, the best of drugs

Took a lot of courage and self awareness to come to these terms, man. Good on you!

I suggest getting a hobby and getting off the internet. Internet leads to boredom. Boredom leads to drinking.

I found you a snazzy sig file:

Kudos man, it takes guts to take this first step. No one should be giving you shit about it. I agree with Dave, they'd deserve a kick in the nuts. In fact, I'll kick them in the face while they're writhing on the ground from Dave's nutkick.

I wish you the best. Be firm in your resolve.

If you fall off the wagon, get back on and start your count over again.

Good luck to you.

sixpackshaker said:

I wish you the best. Be firm in your resolve.

If you fall off the wagon, get back on and start your count over again.

Click to expand...

This. I have a history of addiction in my family - alchoholic grandfather, mother who looked like she was heading that way (and who just... can't... quite quit smoking. Every time she tries (for over 20 years, off and on).), and I've seen how it can affect people.

You're taking the first step. Keep stepping after that. And if you stumble, or fall even, just know that the path is still before you, waiting for you to take another step.

Cheesy metaphor? Maybe, but true nonetheless.

Let necromancy be your anti-drink.

Go at your own pace.
AA is good for some, better for the more religious. It did not work for me, but I do recommend you go and see if it works for you.
Finding and understanding the trigger(s) to cause you to drink is the most important step that worked for me.

Good luck, dude. I've known more than a few people who got really wrapped up in alcohol is real bad way, but they've all mostly managed to pull out of the tail spin they were in.

You can do it!

tegid said:

I think that [Fail] is seriously misplaced.

Click to expand...

Also, this. Not fail at all to recognize and try to correct a problem.

Godspeed, TN. I totally understand the desire and even need to post this here. It shocks me sometimes how important this forum has become to me, even.

I hope you have support structures in real life, though, too. We like you, and some of us might even be what you would call friends, but very little that we can do from here will help you on your recovery. I'm sure this disappoints nobody more than it disappoints each and every one of us. I'm sure we all offer our support from wherever we are, and I'm sure every one of us are praying and hoping that people who are actually in your life can do all of the things that we wish we could.

Wish you the best Necro! Hang in there.

Good luck sir. Even realizing your problem is a big deal. I know people who will probably never even get that far. :\

I wish you the best of luck. As a recovering alcoholic myself, I know how hard it can be. It took a night in jail and almost losing my job to make me wake up and face my problem.

As to AA, it would never work for me because I can't relinquish my personal responsibility, but for some people, that's the only way they can overcome it. If that's what they need to do to get sober, more power to them.

Every person has a different way of dealing with things.

---------- Post added at 09:55 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:54 PM ----------

Oh, and BTW, I'm 3 years sober this June.

Shit, I had missed this thread.

My maternal grandparents had 6 children. 4 of them became alcoholics. 1 of them died because of it. Thankfully my mom was one of the 2 that dodged the bullet, but that doesn't mean alcoholism isn't something that has surrounded me my entire life. My parents were scared shitless when I got to a drinking age because they're, understandably, worried about genetic tendencies and what not.

My uncle's death hit us all very hard, first funeral I've ever been to (4 grandparents still alive), but it was sadly not a surprise to anyone. My uncle had been on a self destructive path for years, bouncing in and out of rehab.

All I'm saying is... I've been around this. I know how fucking hard it is. And you're one of my favorite online people, dude, so if you ever feel like you need to talk or... just vent at someone, feel free to PM or mail or whatever me, alright? I'm serious dude, this is not the mexican being nice just for politeness sake, I 100% truly mean it. I'd be honored, even.

Hang tough dude, you're not alone.

Good luck, buddy. Not letting a substance control you is a tricky thing. I hope it works out. My dad got out from under cigarettes and alcohol. It can be a rough road, but it's worth it.

Good luck, ThreNec. It takes a lot of guts to face your problems like this. Keep strong.

good luck man. i've been considering quitting drinking altogether as well but can't seem to do it

Good luck to you. I've been considering going to AA myself recently.

I thank you all for your support and apologize for it taking me so long to come back and say so.

I'm doing better right now. My first day when I made this post, I wasn't doing well. I'm man enough to admit to you now I spent most of it in tears. It may sound silly but at that time I was coping with the loss of not just what I viewed as my best friend, but also such a major change to my life. Alcohol has literally become such a pivotal point, such a major thing that to convince myself that I must now live without it has been no easy task.

And it's still not. I find myself constantly wishing, even planning for a drink before I catch myself and put myself back on the path.

I did go to an AA meeting the other day. It did make it easier for me to know that I wasn't the only one with this problem. Logically we always know we aren't the only ones, but to sit and listen to others actually tell the stories of the battles they had to face helps give me confidence. As well as knowing I'm not the only one on this board. And I can't thank all of you enough for your support and encouraging words. I can't be sure that the AA route is quite right for me, I'm not the religious type, but when it's needed I'm glad to know it's there as well as those who are here.

Thank you, again.

AA does not have to be religious, unless you are. When they say higher power or god they arent really talking in a religious sense, unless the person individually believes in that. The higher power is just what you draw support from so like your friends can be your higher power or your feeling of responsibility to mankind or a rock you found in the yard. Whatever makes you feel supported.

Although AA is explicitly and intentionally non denominational, and accepts that every one needs to have their own interpretation of "a higher power", the fact remains the AA is very close to a Christian organization. Hell, the Supreme Court recently ruled that courts could no longer mandate that people participate in meetings as this constitutes a violation of the separation between church and state.

This was part of the problem for my uncle hating AA... he was a staunch atheist and any mention of a "higher power" sent him running. It's hard for us who have created our entire personalities devoid of "something out there, a higher power" to suddenly be directed to hold on to one. This is why AA is tricky. I'm not saying it sucks, it certainly has helped my other two uncles, but it's.. tricky. Tricky business.

In my opinion the bitching about the "religious" nature of AA stems from not understanding it and being sent into a tizzy by simple word association.

Thread Necromancer said:

I thank you all for your support and apologize for it taking me so long to come back and say so.

Click to expand...

Well, c'mon,"Thread Necromancer" like durrr, that's your nature.

makare1 said:

In my opinion the bitching about the "religious" nature of AA stems from not understanding it and being sent into a tizzy by simple word association.

Click to expand...

I understand it... they have taken all the necessary measures to be secular, non-denominational and completely welcoming of all faiths. That still doesn't mean they're not using a very faith-centric approach. They ask you to trust and submit yourself to a non-specific "higher power". The problem is that no matter what you choose to think this "higher power" is, you're still relying on something "out there", something outside yourself. That's what doesn't sit well with many, my passed uncle included.

It's relinquishing your own responsibility, in some ways.

I'm not trying to argue or start something here, I KNOW first hand that AA can be very helpful. I'm just pointing out why it can be tricky for the non-believers. And not just because they "don't understand it".

I suppose as a spiritual person I guess I don't understand how someone can't rely on ANYTHING outside of themselves, spiritual or not, especially when asking for help for a problem. Everyone is different I guess.

That's my point.. as a NON spiritual person I find it incredibly... aggravating, for lack of a better word... to HAVE to rely on something. Especially if it's a "higher power" sort of something. I like how the universe works with nothing but logic and science. I LOVE how the universe works with nothing but logic and science, it never ceases to awe and amaze me. Deviating from that would be impossible for me. THAT'S why AA can be tricky for people like me and, I'm pretty sure, Necro.

It can still work wonders as a support net, of course, which is where I think the real benefits of AA lie. Having a good sponsor can be a HUGE tool against alcoholism. HUGE. Plus talking and listening to others... that's really a good mechanism of coping and that I understand. If you can benefit from these, Shaun (Shawn? Shane? Sean? I can never remember how you spell your name, dammit) without having conflict with the "higher power" stuff, go for it man. Seriously.

So how is relying on the group, which is outside of you, not the higher power?

Cause they're peers... they're not a "higher power", they're other people with similar problems and experiences that can help you. Actual, tangible stuff.

But if you get support from them they serve as the higher power. That's what the higher power is, whatever supports you.

The AA program my uncles and aunt have used literally separate the two concepts. One is the higher power you yourself hold on to, the other is your fellow alcoholics, sponsor, meetings, etc. you can even see this in the 12 steps.. it literally talks of accepting your flaws to yourself, god, AND other human beings. Separating the both, completely. Hell, lots of the steps talk about submitting yourself to God's will, and ask for him to remove your flaws. I don't remember how exactly they're worded or what specific steps they are... but if you read all 12 you can't say AA wants you to consider your peers the "higher power", far from it.

I've been to quite a few meetings and spent a great deal of time with AA people and seeing the support of the group as the higher power is perfectly in line with the AA philosophy. Maybe the programs are just different in different areas I guess.

Dude, the 12 steps, in America:

1. We admitted we were powerless over alcohol—that our lives had become unmanageable.
2. Came to believe that a Power greater than ourselves could restore us to sanity.
3. Made a decision to turn our will and our lives over to the care of God as we understood Him.
4. Made a searching and fearless moral inventory of ourselves.
5. Admitted to God, to ourselves, and to another human being the exact nature of our wrongs.
6. Were entirely ready to have God remove all these defects of character.
7. Humbly asked Him to remove our shortcomings.
8. Made a list of all persons we had harmed, and became willing to make amends to them all.
9. Made direct amends to such people wherever possible, except when to do so would injure them or others.
10. Continued to take personal inventory and when we were wrong promptly admitted it.
11. Sought through prayer and meditation to improve our conscious contact with God as we understood Him, praying only for knowledge of His will for us and the power to carry that out.
12. Having had a spiritual awakening as the result of these steps, we tried to carry this message to alcoholics, and to practice these principles in all our affairs.

Those are pretty much EXACTLY as I remember seeing.. translated to Spanish, of course.

The bolded steps? Those are the ones any non-believer would have a problem with. I also underlined the one I mentioned that literally separates humans from the "higher power".

I guess I don't see why you couldn't have your support group as your higher power and then also tell your wrongs to another human being who is not part of your group, which is what you do for that step. Usually it is a counselor or something.

Like I said above they say god but it just means higher power as you perceive it so the group fits into that fine.

...how is the group supposed to remove all our flaws? Defects of character AND shortcomings, mind you. You're supposed to PRAY to the group? And SUBMIT YOUR WILL AND LIVES to them!?

Reliance on the group allows the person to focus on his own shortcomings and meditate on what that strength can provide for him in his life. Taking responsibility for himself but knowing that he is supported by the group of people who understand and actively support him. He submits his will to the strength the group gives him and it allows him to rebuild his life.

Yes.. that's exactly what I meant when I said it's an excellent support structure. That still doesn't answer how the group is supposed to take the part of the mentioned God in steps 2, 3 and especially 6, 7 and 11.

I understand where you're coming from, and your interpretation is just as valid as anyone's, but that doesn't mean that the creators of the 12 step program had non-believers in mind. You're a spiritual person so taking them the way you do is easy... but try to put yourself in the shoes of us atheists. Can't you see the conflict those bolded steps would bring? EVEN if you tried to change "god" for "support group"?

To me the only conflict would be words. I suppose they should just go through and rewrite the 12 steps for those who have an adverse response to those words. Actually I bet they have. Im going to look that up.

aha victory

You may find that some of the Steps are the same and that there are also references to spirituality included. Depending on your own persuasions, you may wish to edit them further.

1. We admitted we were powerless over alcohol, that our lives had become unmanageable.

2. Came to believe and to accept that we needed strengths beyond our awareness and resources to restore us to sanity.

3. Made a decision to entrust our wills and our lives to the care of the collective wisdom and resources of those who have searched before us.

4. Made a searching and fearless moral inventory of ourselves.

5. Admitted to ourselves, without reservation, and to another human being the exact nature of our wrongs.

6. We are ready to accept help in letting go of all our defects of character.

7. With humility and openness sought to eliminate our shortcomings.

8. Made a list of all persons we had harmed, and became willing to make amends to them all. 9. Made direct amends to such people wherever possible, except when to do so would injure them or others.

10. Continued to take personal inventory and when we were wrong, promptly admitted it.

11. Sought through meditation to improve our spiritual awareness and our understanding of the AA way of life and to discover the power to carry out that way of life.
12. Having had a spiritual awakening as a result of these steps, we tried to carry this message to alcoholics, and to practice these principals in all our affairs.

http://www.sossobriety.org/12steps.htm

that's what the site said but i suppose you could replace spiritual with intellectual.

I understand a group of peers can be very helpful... but, I'm sorry, how are THEY, with problems of their own, supposed to REMOVE all my flaws?

The Mex said:

I understand a group of peers can be very helpful... but, I'm sorry, how are THEY, with problems of their own, supposed to REMOVE all my flaws?

Click to expand...

Why are you so damn literal? It is about removing your flaws through growing as a person as a result of the support of the group or whatever else supports you.

No, see, that's my problem with AA. It's Counter-enlightenment at it's most modern. It literally tells you that in order to get better you must accept your own flaws and limitations and then rely on something else. It's submissive and entirely destroys the entire "heaven on earth" ideal of the enlightenment. It removes power from your hands, it relinquishes personal responsibility.

You say it's "removing your flaws", but the whole idea of AA is more akin to "having your flaws removed".. by the powers outside you. Be they whatever you want them to be.

---------- Post added at 12:43 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:42 AM ----------

(just noticed your edited post with the new steps, let me read them through before commenting, this post to be edited)

Alright. Those are much better.. EXCEPT for step 2...

"accept that we needed strengths beyond our awareness and resources"

That right there is the entire problem with the AA program to me. It's accepting you can't do it on your own. It's not "a tool to help yourself" it's literally "you are lost without this, you are hopeless on your own".

One thing is to have a support structure, another entirely is having to RELY on others.


Again, I'm not saying there's anything wrong with wanting to do that, or that it won't work with many. I KNOW it does, but it's going to be tricky to work within those guidelines for lots of people who are NOT spiritual.

It's not a philosophical movement. It is simply a tool to help people overcome addiction. It is a malleable tool as well so nothing is set in stone. I mean if an all atheist group wanted to adapt the steps to their own beliefs, or lack thereof whatever, they can and it would still be AA.

I don't know much about AA, but I just want to say that I think it's entirely possible to both take responsibility for your actions and admit that we humans are not islands and function better with the support of others. This is especially true in situations like this where the problem is a dependency that affects your quality of life and can make you feel extremely weak and desperate. You wouldn't simply look within to overcome a serious physical illness, and I don't believe you should for something like this either. As a very proud person, I don't fully accept the idea of feeling completely powerless to change my own life, but I also acknowledge that I've only gotten over my most difficult moments with the support of others.

For people who simply need to cut back and do not feel incomplete or wrong without alcohol, yeah, this probably would not be necessary. But it's probably very good for some people.

Cajungal said:

I don't know much about AA, but I just want to say that I think it's entirely possible to both take responsibility for your actions and admit that we humans are not islands and function better with the support of others. This is especially true in situations like this where the problem is a dependency that affects your quality of life and can make you feel extremely weak and desperate. You wouldn't simply look within for a physical illness, and I don't believe you can for something like this either. As a very proud person, I don't fully accept the idea of feeling completely powerless to change my own life, but I also acknowledge that I've only gotten over my most difficult moments in life with the support of others.

For people who simply need to cut back and do not feel incomplete or wrong without alcohol, yeah, this probably would not be necessary. But it's probably very good for some people.

Click to expand...

Exactly... that's precisely what I meant when I said it's an EXCELLENT support structure. Listening to people who are going through similar things, learning by their mistakes, having them listen and give outside advice. All that is awesome and an excellent tool. Human beings are social animals, of course something like this would be completely beneficial.

The problem some of us see is that AA goes BEYOND that. It offers a support structure BUT it also asks you to entirely submit to the higher power, whatever it may be. It literally tells you that without doing so, you're done. It's not, usually, "hey, come here, we can help you" it's "hey, you're powerless on your own, if you don't come here you're going to be screwed".

This is a problem SPECIFIC to Alcoholics Anonymous... which is a specific organization, makare, with its own board of trustees and everything, that has it's own guidelines and relies on the so-called "Big Book". There are OTHER support groups that are based on AA but aren't part of the organization that may be more lenient on the higher power thing. Actually I think those may be a better idea. But that's me, of course.

As long as the "big book" is involved, I have issues with AA.

---------- Post added at 12:59 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:56 AM ----------

THIS is exactly what I have a problem with: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Big_Book_(Alcoholics_Anonymous)#Recovery_only_through_faith_in_God

I tried to link to the section specifically, but if it doesn't work it's the "Recovery only through faith in God" subtitle.

I give up.

AA encourages groups to use the tools in ways that fit their members needs as individuals and a group. That's all I've got now besides a splitting headache.

Huh... weird. After reading your protests more thoroughly I understand why you're leery of the program. At least it seems as if (judging only by sources I've been able to read in the past 20 minutes or so) that they are trying to keep the spiritual side of the program vague so that it can be adjusted to people's individual needs and beliefs. And people who do this of their own free will don't have some kind of file, right? They aren't followed around? You call the sponsor, he doesn't call you? If all that's the case, I'll bet it would be easy to take what you do need from the program and leave all the stuff you find distasteful--do the moderate thing and admit you need help, call the support of peers the "power" (no higher ) that you need to get through this and be done with it.

I read in the revised AA sponsor Q+A (it wouldn't copy/paste...) that sponsors aren't allowed to impose their own spiritual beliefs on a member. The example was that an atheist couldn't tell a member to abandon his faith in God, and a thiest couldn't persuade a member to look to God for help. So they're trying to keep things very non-specific, at least... I mean, hopefully.

Anyway, like all things, AA's not for everyone. People can find support for this sort of thing in many forms.

Cajungal said:

Anyway, like all things, AA's not for everyone. People can find support for this sort of thing in many forms.

Click to expand...

Pretty much this. If AA has to much religious connotations for someone there are plenty of other options. If AA works for people or if they find religion or don't while in AA good for them. It's their lives.

makare1;369289][QUOTE=The Mex said:

I understand a group of peers can be very helpful... but, I'm sorry, how are THEY, with problems of their own, supposed to REMOVE all my flaws?

Click to expand...

Why are you so damn literal? It is about removing your flaws through growing as a person as a result of the support of the group or whatever else supports you.[/QUOTE]

Haha, I found this funny because you're a law student.

To Makare and Calleja, this thread is about TN's problem, not your personal pissing matches over semantics.

You really should both be ashamed of yourselves.

The worst part is that I KNEW that it would devovle into some stupid debate about AA.

I don't care what the mechanism is for people getting sober, just that they have support.

Bowielee said:

To Makare and Calleja, this thread is about TN's problem, not your personal pissing matches over semantics.

You really should both be ashamed of yourselves.

The worst part is that I KNEW that it would devovle into some stupid debate about AA.

I don't care what the mechanism is for people getting sober, just that they have support.

Click to expand...

Perhaps the true path to sobriety lies within the path of drunkenness?

Espy;369408][QUOTE=Cajungal said:

Anyway, like all things, AA's not for everyone. People can find support for this sort of thing in many forms.

Click to expand...

Pretty much this. If AA has to much religious connotations for someone there are plenty of other options. If AA works for people or if they find religion or don't while in AA good for them. It's their lives.[/QUOTE]

Agreed. To me, I don't care if the Sober Fairy comes down and waves her magic wand or if it's AA - as long as he gets and feels better in this case it's the results that matter.

Instead of debating the merits or demerits of any one program we should just say good luck and move on. If you want to start another thread on AA and thing like that feel free.

(No, I'm not stopping off-topic stuff here. I just think it would be more respectful to someone who showed incredible bravery with his confession.)

Considering that our "pissing match" seems to be over, well done for bringing it up again.

I think I would have been disheartened should this thread have not moved onto other subject matter. It is after all the very nature of our boards and conversations. Should it have been mine alone that had stayed upon subject and quietly shrank away one might think that my little issue was of no importance to anyone but myself.

Off topic and derail is a simple matter of our lives here on this board. One can hardly expect any thread to actually stay on topic for a mere page much less it's entirety of existence. This is well known to me and expected.

On topic however. Aside from the first couple of days being very difficult only with grasping and handling the realization and the beginnings of a new path there has been little difficulty for one reason. My children have been home. My true test will come tonight as it will be the first night they shall not be in care and as such is a usual drinking night for me. But I am firm in my resolve and will find other pursuits for the evening.

I'm sure you will, TN.

Thread Necromancer said:

I think I would have been disheartened should this thread have not moved onto other subject matter. It is after all the very nature of our boards and conversations. Should it have been mine alone that had stayed upon subject and quietly shrank away one might think that my little issue was of no importance to anyone but myself.

Off topic and derail is a simple matter of our lives here on this board. One can hardly expect any thread to actually stay on topic for a mere page much less it's entirety of existence. This is well known to me and expected.

On topic however. Aside from the first couple of days being very difficult only with grasping and handling the realization and the beginnings of a new path there has been little difficulty for one reason. My children have been home. My true test will come tonight as it will be the first night they shall not be in care and as such is a usual drinking night for me. But I am firm in my resolve and will find other pursuits for the evening.

Click to expand...

What time zone are you in? Want to play an online game or maybe get a trial to Eve? We can grab the Vent and have some fun.

Dave;369654][QUOTE=Thread Necromancer said:

*snip*

Click to expand...

What time zone are you in? Want to play an online game or maybe get a trial to Eve? We can grab the Vent and have some fun.[/QUOTE]

Appreciate the offer Dave. My gaming computer is inoperable at the moment however and the one I'm currently using is of little use other than research and the forum. So if I'm not working on that tonight (which in truth is unlikely that I will be) I have a list of other things. My fish tank needs a good cleaning for one. As well I've got some tv to watch and my favorite option of them all is some reading. The pubs have taken much of my reading time for far to long and that has been a great benefit to all this, that I've found the time to read again. I'm currently midway through the Sherlock Holmes collection and will mostly likely be involved in that.

But again, the offer is appreciated and I'm sure in time I will come calling for just such entertainment.

-edit-
Oh. And for the record, I'm on the west coast.

makare1 said:

Considering that our "pissing match" seems to be over, well done for bringing it up again.

Click to expand...

Can you ever just shut the fuck up without putting in the last word?

Chazwozel;369664][QUOTE=makare1 said:

Considering that our "pissing match" seems to be over, well done for bringing it up again.

Click to expand...

Can you ever just shut the fuck up without putting in the last word?[/QUOTE]

I agree with you on that sharkbreath. I think she would be more accomodating to your query if were you more tactful about it.

TN, as a fellow recovering binge drinker, I wish you well in your endeavor to be sober.

I fell off the wagon tonight. I'm in safe company. things are ok. I know it's not right but, at the same time it's not bad for the night. This is a bit of a conflict for me.

There are days like that. At least you are in good company. Take care that it doesn't become a regular thing, but don't come down too hard on yourself. You are, after all, only human. *wry smile*

Officer_Charon said:

....You are, after all, only human. *wry smile*

Click to expand...

:slap:

Shut your mouth l

I am just playing with you

I gathered. *grins*

Necro, I wish you the best in your recovery. I fear I may have to do the same myself.

Don't get too stressed, TN.

What's important now is getting back on the wagon, not that you fell off once. It's just going to take some time.

Yeah not kicking yourself and moving on is the best thing.

Good luck

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disulfiram

No trite words.

Well, TN, I can tell you this, invariably everyone falls off the wagon out of the gate. It's only a problem if you use it as an excuse to let yourself fall back into old patterns. It took me 3 false starts before I finally kicked the sauce. The first was by far the most emotional with me crying and telling my best friend that I needed help. The last was me silently accepting my situation and making a real determination to change.