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Your TSA - Grope & Pillage

Jul 18, 2012#1

DarkAudit

Via Adam Savage's Twitter feed... Spoilered for size:

Jul 18, 2012#2

Necronic

Created by Onlinecriminaljusticedegree.com you say? Yes, I would like to know more about your programs.

Jul 19, 2012#3

DarkAudit

Necronic said:
Created by Onlinecriminaljusticedegree.com you say? Yes, I would like to know more about your programs.

You'd be overqualified for a TSA position.

Jul 19, 2012#4

evilmike

It's now legal to get naked in the airport to protest the TSA, at least in Oregon --> Judge: Man who stripped nude at airport not guilty

Jul 19, 2012#5

GasBandit

So we're actually in favor of re-privatizing airport security? Jeez, took long enough.

Jul 19, 2012#6

Necronic

That's.....that's such a horrendous idea.

Even Raynd in all her hyper-conservative madness understood that there were 2 (in her mind only 2) principle components of government. The first was to have a legal system. The second was to have a military/police force to protect sovereign land. The TSA falls into the second category.

Jul 19, 2012#7

GasBandit

Necronic said:
That's.....that's such a horrendous idea.

Even Raynd in all her hyper-conservative madness understood that there were 2 (in her mind only 2) principle components of government. The first was to have a legal system. The second was to have a military/police force to protect sovereign land. The TSA falls into the second category.

And it is your argument that they are doing it better than before 9/11?

Jul 19, 2012#8

Necronic

Absolutely. Airport security was a joke before 911. With improvements in enforcement there are going to be other problems that show up. There is still a lot of work to do, and I don't think that the TSA is doing a good job at the moment. But that doesn't mean that we should hand it over to a private firm.

I mean ffs do any of you guys even watch the news?

Edit: The problem is that when it comes to services that involve National Security the organizations involved should only have a single mandate (National Security). A private firm is also beholden to it's shareholders. This has caused trouble in almost every situation it has come about:

1) For profit prisons
2) Blackwater
3) G4S olympics

Show me a counter example (I'm honestly curious, I can't think of one).

Jul 19, 2012#9

GasBandit

I got news for you - Airport security after 911 is still a joke. They have caught nobody. Bad people still get through. It's ludicrously expensive and absolutely toxic to liberty. Did you not even look at the infographic at the start of the thread?

Jul 19, 2012#10

jwhouk

Everyone of adult age in Israel is required to serve in the military. They still have people blowing up stores and restaurants and busy places all the time.

You cannot build a fool-proof system, for there will always be bigger fools.

Jul 19, 2012#11

Necronic

Gasbandit's idea of liberty

Unfettered access to equipment that is potentially very dangerous and has been used to murder thousands: Key to liberty

Voting: Not a basic right

But in all seriousness, like I said, the TSA is fucking up, bad. But acting like airport security isn't an absolute necessity completely ignores how incredibly dangerous they are, and how heavily targeted they are by terrorists and the like (old hijacking statistics are nuts, like over 1 a week in the 60s.)

And privatizing it? No way. That's ridiculous. Private security firms have a long history of fucking up when it comes to serious stuff like this. And the day I believe a quoted budget for a government contract (like the last thing mentioned in the poster) is the day I start huffing paint for the magic powers it grants me.

The TSA (and the dep of Homeland security as a whole) sits in a weird place where it falls between a standard government bureaucrat and a policeman or a soldier. Currently I think the problem is that the hiring, firing, and training standards that they hold are pathetic (or on the level of a standard government bureaucrat), instead of the much stricter rules you have like in say, the military. But that may simply be a result of pay, I dunno. What you need are some highly disciplined, highly accountable personell, and right now you have a bunch of DMV rejects.

The mention of Israel got me thinking. From what I understand they actually have some of the safest airports in the world (ironic), does anyone know who manages their safety systems?

Jul 19, 2012#12

AshburnerX

Necronic said:
The mention of Israel got me thinking. From what I understand they actually have some of the safest airports in the world (ironic), does anyone know who manages their safety systems?

I'm pretty sure it's the military, as they start their checkpoints for the airports miles away from the actual terminal.

Jul 19, 2012#13

Tress

AshburnerX said:
I'm pretty sure it's the military, as they start their checkpoints for the airports miles away from the actual terminal.

Yup. And they completely embrace the idea of profiling, which would never be allowed here.

Jul 19, 2012#14

blotsfan

Yeah, I've flown out of Israel. You have to go through a military checkpoint before you do the normal metal detector one.

Jul 20, 2012#15

AshburnerX

Tress said:
Yup. And they completely embrace the idea of profiling, which would never be allowed here.

I can forgive them for profiling. The people they are trying to stop live right on their door step and fire rockets into their country on a daily basis. Unlike our made up War on Terror, they have a real reason to be afraid.

Jul 20, 2012#16

Tress

AshburnerX said:
Unlike our made up War on Terror...

Okay, I was with you right until this last part.

Jul 20, 2012#17

DarkAudit

It's made up. We aren't at war with diddly. A real war means sacrifice. What did Dubya sacrifice? His fucking golf game. He told us to go shopping. There's no war.

Or... We have always been at war with Eastasia.

Jul 20, 2012#18

AshburnerX

Tress said:
Okay, I was with you right until this last part.

Let me put it another way: Israel has to worry about attacks every minute of every day, because the people who are trying to burn their country to the ground literally live IN their country. We don't have that problem and we never will.

Jul 20, 2012#19

Necronic

Our problem isn't as severe as Israel's, but it's absurd to think that we don't have them. There are plenty of people, who live in this country, who want to do just that.

Jul 20, 2012#20

GasBandit

From what I've read, Israel attributes its airport safety to two main factors - not being afraid to profile, and a security screening process that involves a quick Q&A interview. Where are you going today? For what purpose? Who's picking you up when you get there? Do you have family there? Etc. They are experienced at picking out the "tells" and nervous twitches of someone about to do something bad. If they see suspicious behavior, the interview goes longer, and the questions get harder.

Jul 20, 2012#21

Espy

DarkAudit said:
It's made up. We aren't at war with diddly.

wrote that but I read:

DarkAudit said:
It's made up. We aren't at war with Diddy.

Jul 20, 2012#22

DarkAudit

Um... so did I when I was typing it.

Jul 20, 2012#23

Espy

I'm all for the war on Diddy. It will not be an easy battle.

Jul 20, 2012#24

GasBandit

Diddy hates our freedoms.

Jul 20, 2012#25

Espy

Thats not true, he will kill you if you don't vote. Thats how much he loves freedom.

Jul 20, 2012#26

GasBandit

Espy said:
Thats not true, he will kill you if you don't vote. Thats how much he loves freedom.

Except your freedom to choose not to vote.

Jul 20, 2012#27

Covar

I hate when people get on others for that. There's a big difference between not being bothered to go vote, and not voting for a candidate you can't get behind. Granted while I'm still figuring things out my current vote plans is to turn in an empty ballot, a high turnout with a lower popular vote is the only way to send the right message. Otherwise you're just easily dismissed by the politicians.

Jul 20, 2012#28

Necronic

GasBandit said:
From what I've read, Israel attributes its airport safety to two main factors - not being afraid to profile, and a security screening process that involves a quick Q&A interview. Where are you going today? For what purpose? Who's picking you up when you get there? Do you have family there? Etc. They are experienced at picking out the "tells" and nervous twitches of someone about to do something bad. If they see suspicious behavior, the interview goes longer, and the questions get harder.

That's more or less what I've heard, that a lot of it involves relatively complex/advanced psychological screening techniques (alongside relatively simple profiling.)

Profiling won't work in the states simply because we are too multicultural and there are too many possible threat vectors to simply rely on race (although some profiling might be good.) The other stuff seems like something well beyond the abilities of your standard TSA worker.

Jul 20, 2012#29

GasBandit

Plus, it may be important to note that Israel really only has three international airports.

Jul 20, 2012#30

Bubble181

Necronic said:
Profiling won't work in the states simply because we are too multicultural and there are too many possible threat vectors to simply rely on race (although some profiling might be good.) The other stuff seems like something well beyond the abilities of your standard TSA worker.

Bullshit. Profiling isn't just picking out the arab-looking ones. Good profiling is a science like any other, and perfectly adaptable for areas with a diverse population. Won't say it isn't easier in an all-Aryan country, but there's no such thing anywhere on the world.

Jul 20, 2012#31

Necronic

Ok, I should say that racial profiling of Arabs, as is done openly in Israel, won't work as well in the US.

Jul 20, 2012#32

Cheesy1

The TSA hates the cock!:

US man with huge penis stopped at airport

Jul 20, 2012#33

Frank

Cheesy1 said:
The TSA hates the cock!:

US man with huge penis stopped at airport

That news story.....wasn't anything. He was questioned about a suspicious bulge and allowed on his way. That's maybe the least news worthy thing I've ever read.

Yahoo. Here's a news story about the next day.

US man with huge penis eats dinner

US man with huge checked his email

Jul 20, 2012#34

AshburnerX

Frank said:
That news story.....wasn't anything. He was questioned about a suspicious bulge and allowed on his way. That's maybe the least news worthy thing I've ever read.

Yahoo. Here's a news story about the next day.

US man with huge penis eats dinner

US man with huge checked his email

Hmm... I think I need to go talk to Brazzers about a new show idea...