[Movies] Kevin Smith Fucking Sucks

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Charlie Don't Surf

Charlie Don't Surf

(NOTE: I love Clerks through Clerks 2)

The first time I thought maybe Kevin Smith is losing his lustre was when Zack & Miri Make a Porno flopped and he completely flipped out and cried and whined like a huge baby. And then I heard the whole story on Smodcast and lost a bit of respect.

I liked the early Smodcasts, but they got a little grating before going full bore into "how the hell does Mosier put up with him?"

Also, just stating, I was on his side of pretty much all of the "Too Fat to Fly" nonsense.

Then he again, went full idiot on the "Cop Out" stuff, and I think launched his "war on movie criticism". I rolled my eyes pretty hard, but still didn't really have any harsh feelings.

Then everything about Red State happened. I don't want to hash out all that happened, but what he pulled at Sundance (Cannes?) with buying his own movie for one cent is one of the stupidest and shittiest things he's ever done. Then on top of that, the movie sucked.

ALSO: a few pages leaked of that Hit Somebody movie / epic / miniseries / whatever the fuck it is now, and holy shit it was so laughably bad. I dunno if it's still up, but christ.

I'll probably give Clerks 3 a shot, since maybe that'll find his way back to a good movie, but I'm incredibly fuckin wary.

So that's my Kevin Smith rant, sorry I couldn't do him justice and smoke a huge blunt and record me talking about it for an hour with a disinterested friend.
 
ThatNickGuy

ThatNickGuy

I dug his earlier stuff, even if they were incredibly sophomoric.

Personally, my favourite of his work are his Evening with Kevin Smith Q&As. He's a very hit-and-miss filmmaker, but he's a great storyteller.
 
CynicismKills

CynicismKills

I haven't seen anything of his since Clerks 2. Cop Out looked terrible and I have no idea what the fuck Red State is supposed to be about. I'll just stick to his Jersey Chronicles and not worry about the other crap he spews. Though I do agree with Nick, I like the clips I've seen of his stage stuff (Evening With, Too Fat For 40, etc) and he's not bad when he shows up in Comic Book Men.
 
Kovac

Kovac

Zack & Miri Make a Porno completely failed to connect with my sense of humor and Red State was a badly flawed movie any many ways and could have turned out to be a much better movie with a little more restraint and willingness to make cuts. But I love the heck out of the smodcast network and his free form discussions entertain me to no end.

I had been looking forward to Hit Someone when it was still going to be a movie as it sounded like it was going to be something new while also being something he is passionate about.
 
Yoshimickster

Yoshimickster

I haven't seen much of his stuff since Clerks 2 but I haven't heard much good. Its bitter sweet to me since Clerks is one of my favorite movies. So I can't really argue either way.

Edit: WHOOPS! Meant to put a 2 under after that Clerks. Now I feel silly. No different than usual I guess.
 
Krisken

Krisken

Clerks, Clerks 2, Dogma, and Red State are some of his better ones (Chasing Amy gets super grating after multiple viewings).

So, yeah, what Jay said above.
 
Shakey

Shakey

I didn't know he was ever all that great. Sure clerks was fun because he talked about star wars and stuff, and mall rats was funny because of Brenda and all that. But it was all just silly pop culture stuff. All his other stuff was just an attempt to recapture that. Don't get me wrong, I like his stuff. He's just never been all that great.
 
Yoshimickster

Yoshimickster

Shakey said:
I didn't know he was ever all that great. Sure clerks was fun because he talked about star wars and stuff, and mall rats was funny because of Brenda and all that. But it was all just silly pop culture stuff. All his other stuff was just an attempt to recapture that. Don't get me wrong, I like his stuff. He's just never been all that great.
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Okay there was more to the Askewniverse than that. True there is a lot of pop-culture talk in the films and thats a factor to why they are enjoyable, but I also think that the characters and how they bounce off one another that makes it good to. Plus Jay always makes me laugh with how gross he can get.
 
Bowielee

Bowielee

Shakey said:
I didn't know he was ever all that great. Sure clerks was fun because he talked about star wars and stuff, and mall rats was funny because of Brenda and all that. But it was all just silly pop culture stuff. All his other stuff was just an attempt to recapture that. Don't get me wrong, I like his stuff. He's just never been all that great.
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I'd strongly disagree. Dogma is a wildly different film, thought it may have the "dick and fart joke" feel, it is an incredibly well crafted movie, and a serious love letter to Kevin Smith's belief in God over organized religion.

People are also quick to dismiss Jersey Girl due to the fact that Jennifer Lopez and Ben Affleck are in the film together and it came out at roughly the same time as Gili, but I found it to be an incredibly heartwarming movie, if not a bit cliche.

Zack and Miri failed on multiple levels. It was too sweet to appeal to the clerks/mallrats croud, but to vulgar to appeal to the mainstream crowd.

I also agree with other posters in that I loved the hell out of Red State.

He has been incredibly hit or miss outside of the Jay and Silent Bob films, but really, what writer/director doesn't have the occasional bomb?

As was pointed out earlier, Kevin Smith only directed Cop Out, and had nothing to do with the writing of it. I'm not saying it was great directing on his part, but I don't know if it would have been a good movie no matter who directed it.

As for his attitude, we've had this discussion multiple times and it's hardly worth rehashing. Whether you think he's an asshole/whiner/whatnot should be seperate from your analysis of his films.
 
Frank

Frank

I pretty much agree wholeheartedly with Charlie there.

I used to love Smodcasts, but his stoner shit got tiresome so quickly. Most of his work post becoming an idiot pothead has been terrible.
 
Bowielee

Bowielee

I never listened to the Smodcasts or really paid any attention to him outside of his films and his "evening with" stuff. I honestly let his films stand or fall on their own merits. I couldn't give two shits if he's a self-riteous asshole outside of his films.
 
Frank

Frank

He's not even self-righteous about being a stoner, he's just an annoying stoner. He's Jon Stewart in Half Baked.
 
Shakey

Shakey

Yoshimickster said:
Okay there was more to the Askewniverse than that. True there is a lot of pop-culture talk in the films and thats a factor to why they are enjoyable, but I also think that the characters and how they bounce off one another that makes it good to. Plus Jay always makes me laugh with how gross he can get.
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Right, he's good at constructing a good conversation. That's what makes him a good writer.

Bowielee said:
I'd strongly disagree. Dogma is a wildly different film, thought it may have the "dick and fart joke" feel, it is an incredibly well crafted movie, and a serious love letter to Kevin Smith's belief in God over organized religion.
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I liked Dogma, and it is a bit different, but in the end it's just him having a conversation in his own head. He doesn't do anything great or mind blowing. He's just a good conversational writer.
 
Charlie Don't Surf

Charlie Don't Surf

Clerks is a great movie. I'll stand by that. And I'm not saying the stuff he's done after the above makes his earlier movies worse suddenly. I'm just disappointed his career went the way it did.
 
Calleja

Calleja

Krisken said:
That second panel reminds me of Hark! A Vagrant.
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Well then that Hark thing is ripping PA off cause that strip actually was popular enough to "create" those two characters, Catsby and Twisp, they've gone on to make several strips with them, ie:



They're also in the Penny Arcade game.

See, Kevin Smith is so awesome he even, albeit indirectly, helped create a great PA recurring gag.
 
Krisken

Krisken

No no, it doesn't look like it, as Hark! looks like shit. I'm saying the nonsense of the comic reminds me of reading Hark! I hate Hark.
 
Calleja

Calleja

Gilgamesh said:
Sure it does. Opinions are both always wrong and always right. That's what makes them different from facts :)
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No, no, they're not both always wrong and always right, they're neither, they're subjective, they're not wrong OR right. Which I guess would be the same result, but my brain twitched at something being always both.
 
ElJuski

ElJuski

Staff member
I've always felt that Kevin Smith at his best was pleasantly juvenile and at his worst obnoxiously juvenile. Never gave it a second thought to listen to his smodcasts, but that Wild Wild West story of his is hilarious.
 
Charlie Don't Surf

Charlie Don't Surf

Krisken said:
Oh god no, critics have disliked him since Clerks. They just generally give it a pass because it was made on a budget of $25,000..
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I more meant that was where he started saying shitty things about critics in public. ALSO all his movies were over 50% on Rotten Tomatoes until Jersey Girl. Even Mallrats and J&SBSB (which were much more "not for critics" than Jersey Girl)
 
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