You know if people weren't losing their shit over things Microsoft (sorry Micro$oft) hadn't felt the need to comment on they wouldn't have to explicitly state the obvious. The fact that there were a ton of dumbasses on the internet assuming that all the games would be tied to a single live account means that yes believe it or not they have to state otherwise.
Xbox one
- Thread starter strawman
- Start date
SHHH!!
Dave
Staff member
With Steam, the program is on your computer and it can only be played at one point and time. The Xbox thing means that even though you go to the store and purchase a game, you are subjected to the arbitrary rules set forth by M$. And the facial recognition means that even when you buy the game and are sitting in the living room with your brother, you have to basically ask permission to share the controller and take turns. God forbid you also have a friend over! And when you are done with the game and want to turn it in for store credit? Sorry, but M$ can't get their cut so they won't allow it. Fucking bullshit. It's like Ford telling you who you can sell your car to when you buy a new one.
Bottom line is I was going to buy one of these for my son for Christmas. He's a big Xbox guy and I thought he'd like it. There's no way I'm wasting my money doing that now. Either I'll get him a PS4 or he'll keep playing that old Xbox 360.
When did they say any of that would happen? Last I heard as long as you're logged in with your live account, it doesn't matter who's playing it. They also said there will be a way to resell your games, but it will have to be through their system, not independently. I'm still not seeing how this is any different than Steam.
I'm sorry, what's the difference again?
No, they said that publishers will have the abilty to allow you to resell your games, but they make no guarantee the publisher will choose to do so. Moreover, for games sold between friends, they limit the max number of times you can do it.
M$ will actually let you resell them or give them to your friend. Seems like this system is a lot more forgiving than Steam is.[DOUBLEPOST=1370614188][/DOUBLEPOST]
And how is this worse than Steam again? There is a way to sell them again, like you said it's up to the publisher though.
Like Dave said, Steam doesn't sell you a physical object and then place a bunch of restrictions on what you can do with it. Notice that the complaints generally aren't about these restrictions on digital downloads.
With Steam, there's never been a question of how it works. And very few people used it at first. It wasn't until they started doing the Steam sales and independent game support that it really took off. And honestly, it's the sales, I think, that make it okay. If you get the games dirt cheap in the first place, you don't feel nearly as screwed over. And I never understood the idea of "used digital games" because it's digital. There's nothing "used" about it.
The other difference is that Steam has restrictions on digital copies. Microsoft is trying to the same thing with PHYSICAL copies.
Also, Steam doesn't scan you and your room all the time with a webcam.
The other difference is that Steam has restrictions on digital copies. Microsoft is trying to the same thing with PHYSICAL copies.
Also, Steam doesn't scan you and your room all the time with a webcam.
The comparison is false. Steam is a program through which you buy games for your computer, which can run other games that you can buy from other sources in physical form should you choose and can be sold as you choose without the computer company putting restrictions on it, or even the company who made the game for that matter. You're trying to make it sound like this is actually better than Steam, which provides games often at huge discounts of their retail price (something Microsoft games almost never do).
Putting perfume on this turd isn't making it smell any sweeter.
Dave
Staff member
You have a physical disk. You want to sell it to a friend. You can't. Not without going to MS and asking their permission. Then, if THAT friend wants to sell it...he can't. Only transferable once. It's different than Steam because it's a physical entity, not a digital copy of a non-physical item. I buy it, I own it, I should be able to do with it whatever the hell I want.
I want to sell my car I sell it without contacting the auto industry.
I want to sell my bike I sell it without contacting Schwinn.
I want to sell my computer I do so without contacting Dell.
The game is a physical disk that I bought from a store. I'm not leasing it. I'm not borrowing it. I fucking OWN it. If I want to sell it it's my prerogative. Or at least it was before corporate greed.
And when did they say this would happen? Their own website talks about the changes such as the 24 hour internet check - no internet? No Game. Default Kinect is always on, recording everything. But you can turn it off in privacy settings...not that everyone will know that.
This system is fucking stupid and I hope it bombs terribly, but too many people are way too cavalier about giving up more and more to corporate and governmental agencies and they damned well know it.
The xbox one puts some of the freedom consumers used to have and puts it into the hands of the publishers, who are free to choose whether and how to limit people's freedom with their products.
People are understandably upset. They wish microsoft wouldn't give publishers the choice, and would instead support consumer choice.
Perhaps this will hurt their system. Perhaps this is the reason they released so much information so early, so people could get it out of their system before they wowed people and brought them back on board with the game offerings. Who knows.
I don't think the system will fail or flop, though.
But I will point out the hypocrisy of those who say they won't buy into such a system when they've already bought into steam, where things are essentially the same. The only difference is that steam has a lower entry fee since most people already have a computer, and so no initial console purchase is required.
Those who do not want the publishers to have a choice on game redistribution are probably going to have to learn to love the Wii U, since PC gaming and most console gaming appears to be going to a single user license model without inherent resale rights.
We're going to have the same fight over video entertainment in the next few years when studios stop releasing physical media and only distribute video online through approved services.
People are understandably upset. They wish microsoft wouldn't give publishers the choice, and would instead support consumer choice.
Perhaps this will hurt their system. Perhaps this is the reason they released so much information so early, so people could get it out of their system before they wowed people and brought them back on board with the game offerings. Who knows.
I don't think the system will fail or flop, though.
But I will point out the hypocrisy of those who say they won't buy into such a system when they've already bought into steam, where things are essentially the same. The only difference is that steam has a lower entry fee since most people already have a computer, and so no initial console purchase is required.
Those who do not want the publishers to have a choice on game redistribution are probably going to have to learn to love the Wii U, since PC gaming and most console gaming appears to be going to a single user license model without inherent resale rights.
We're going to have the same fight over video entertainment in the next few years when studios stop releasing physical media and only distribute video online through approved services.
So just because the data is delivered to you by a disc rather than through the internet it's different? The disc has zero value itself. What gives it value is the game on it. That's what you're wanting to sell. How it's delivered shouldn't matter, especially since they're all the same price. So if you're going to complain about MS not allowing you to resell that game, why not complain about Steam?
Because no one (smart) is spending $60 for a game on Steam.
Wrong. OH wrong wrong wrong wrong.
The disc has value because, guess what? I do whatever I want with that disc. I can lend it to a friend. I can sell it to a friend or to Gamestop if I choose. IF I CHOOSE. Some people, like myself, have a limited income for gaming. I only currently own four physical PS3 games, two of which are recent purchases. The rest? I traded them in for credit so I could pick up other games to play. And that's my right because when I bought the physical copy of the game, I had that right.
I remember being PISSED that I couldn't re-sell Half-Life 2 because of how it was registered to Steam and such. But now? I threw out the discs because I have it digitally on Steam. Steam's sales very much ease the "pain" of not being able to sell them back. Plus, I can carry those games over to any PC that I own. Only one PC at a time, but it's technically reverse compatible. That won't be the case with Xbox One.
No. Legally the game is the bits encoded on the disc, and while you are licensed a representation of them on that disc, you do not own the bits, nor the right to redistribute them.
However, like a book, you can redistribute the representation.
However you find many games, even on physical discs in the store, come with a single use code. Sure, you can sell the disc, but it's useless without the code, and if you've redeemed it you have to sell your account in order to actually transfer the game.
Go ahead and find a way to buy Bioshock Infinite, play it, and then sell it. You can't, even though you may have chosen to purchase a physical disc. All games are tending toward this model, PC, console, etc.
In fact this should be trickling down to the next generation of handheld game consoles soon.
Bottom line: if the game isn't worth the price, don't buy it.
Seriously. Don't buy the console if reselling and sharing your games is primary to your gaming experience. Don't buy the game if reselling and sharing is crucial to your entertainment lifestyle.
You'll find, however, that those who share your extreme game style are very few in number.
Most people, probably 80-90% of gamers, enjoy the used and sharing market, but will not stop gaming if that market goes away.
Which means these consoles aren't going to flop, and that publisher are going to latch onto them, and that rental and resale shops and services are going to change or die.
I guess being a PC person I accepted a long time ago that the software and games I bought were for one person to use, whether it came on a disk or not. Try reselling that windows 7 disk, or that skyrim disk, or that Photoshop disk. It just doesn't work because they all require activation. The disk itself is the delivery medium, not the item itself.
You've been lulled into a complacency! Break free of your chains, brother, and rise up against the console makers!
It's probably the secondary reason this doesn't bother me - I'm used to it in the PC world, and I'm fine with publishers selling me an item I can't resell - if it's not worth it, I don't buy it, and if I buy it I get my money's worth out of it. Reselling would be icing on the cake, but wouldn't change my buying habits. The primary reason is that I'm not a console gamer. This should bother me more, though, because I don't believe we've ever purchased a new console game. Every game we own either came with the console or accessory, or was used. Same with the various gameboys. But it's the kids that will suffer, not me, and I'm not going to be heartbroken if they play less video games.
Necronic
Staff member
Dave
Staff member
I do the same when I have money. But I also don't take my computer to other people's houses to play games, whereas I have seen people take consoles or just the games. Which you won't be able to do any longer.
(I know that wasn't your point, but I wanted to expand on my own.)
Maybe it's my lack of sleep showing, but its sounds like you can explicitly do both of those as much as you want (admittedly, the XBone is larger and heavier, but that's not what I think you mean). You just can't leave the games there more than once, which I agree is a little annoying.
Why wouldn't you get the physical copy then? Can't be bothered to leave the house?
They've said you can install the game on someone elses console and as long as you log into your live account you can play it all you want. When the consoles owner logs back in they won't be able to though.[DOUBLEPOST=1370623495][/DOUBLEPOST]
Why would you bother buying the physical copy? It's one less box and DVD you have laying around.
Because Steam has lost 3 of my games off of their system and when I wanted to play those games again I couldn't without repurchasing them?
Gotcha. I didn't know there were many issues like that. It can also be said that physical games can be easily lost or scratched with no way to get them back too. Both have their pros and cons.
True, they both have their pros and cons. I find the physical copy to be preferable as if anything happens to it generally I'm the one to blame, no one else. If the game is lost on Steam, there's really no way I can blame myself for it.
Remember, Microsoft has never fucked customers with shitty DRM in the past.
http://downloadsquad.switched.com/2...es-the-dust-whilst-drm-steals-customers-musi/
http://downloadsquad.switched.com/2...es-the-dust-whilst-drm-steals-customers-musi/
*cough*Musicmatch*cough*
Valve has said they keep a master patch to remove all DRM, and should the company ever go under, would allow everyone to keep their games without the authentication process. You'd still have to store the game yourself locally, but it does seem the better alternative.
Given Valves track record, there's no reason to believe this isn't true.
I don't complain about Steam not allowing me to resell because they offer frequent sales - I may not be able to recoup some of my initial expenditure further down the line but I have a smaller initial expenditure so that's okay.
I may not be able to lend PC games to my friends but I can (for instance) mod that game. These disadvantages are accepted in the PC market because there are advantages in other areas that make up for it. People are complaining about MS because these disadvantages are now applying to the console market but they're not gaining any new advantages to make up for it.
