The only part of this movie I'm interested in is the huge action crazy superhuman death fight at the end since I pretty much hate Superman the character. I'm just not looking forward to sitting through 2 and a half hours of serious/gritty/self-important shit to get to the part where Michael Shannon yells for 45 minutes and destroys a city.
The Man of Steel.
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You know as a fan of Superman...
I am not all the angry about him killing Zod. If what LittleKagsin said is true, they made it into a huge deal that he felt was his only option to save a families life. While I don't like the fact he did it, I can at least empathize a bit in a stressful, high stakes, spur of the moment situation like that.
What I don't like is what people keep explaining as a total disregard for everyone else around him. The scene with him flailing through the pillars and 7/11 outside Smallville just felt really out of place for him because it's reckless and dangerous to people that are not super-human. I would understand if Zod hit him and forced him through a building, but Superman was the one doing the punching in that scene and thus the root cause of the destruction. Supposedly this happens a lot from what I read.
What I don't like is what people keep explaining as a total disregard for everyone else around him. The scene with him flailing through the pillars and 7/11 outside Smallville just felt really out of place for him because it's reckless and dangerous to people that are not super-human. I would understand if Zod hit him and forced him through a building, but Superman was the one doing the punching in that scene and thus the root cause of the destruction. Supposedly this happens a lot from what I read.
*sigh* Just like your prom night.
Yeah, even Waid points this out. Like the clip we saw a few pages ago, where they're fighting in Smallville. Superman doesn't think to pull Zod into a nearby field or something. Because, you know, Smallville. Kansas. Farming. There'd be a lot of fields.
One more thing...
I think one of the reasons I am okay with him killing Zod was because the story arch reminds me a lot of one of my favorite anime, Trigun. The whole series, Vash refuses to kill anyone for any reason, even though he has the skill to do it. It was the basis of his character. Later on near the end of the series, he is put into a situation where he either kills one of his enemies, or watches two long time friends of his get slowly murdered. He pulls the trigger and executes the man after intense hesitation, and is mentally broken by the event. This character growth comes to a climax when he has the chance to kill his brother, the mastermind behind the whole thing, but once again refuses to do it, standing by his values and not letting the one act to save his friends break his ethics as a whole.
As long as future Superman movies don't treat it in the wishy-washy nature the Batman trilogy treated death by the hero, I can get over it.
As long as future Superman movies don't treat it in the wishy-washy nature the Batman trilogy treated death by the hero, I can get over it.
figmentPez
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I'm still going to see it. I've read the spoilers, and that doesn't change my opinion at all. I've always thought that part of Superman's character is ridiculously overblown. It should be an ideal with reason behind it, even held to an unreasonable extent, but still subject to reality and exception. An example:
The worst example I can think of from comic books I've read is Superman Vs. Aliens (yes, from the Alien movie franchise). Superman goes to investigate what he thinks is a city of more survivors from Kyrpton, and finds it overrun with xenomorphs. Far away from the sun his powers are dwindling, the first attack of xenomorphs partially blinds him with acid, and the xenomorphs have shown no mercy, or even any signs of sentience. Yet, for all this, Superman still refuses to kill them. Depowered, vulnerable, and with the last remaining survivors of an entire city, and he won't kill because the xenomorphs might be intelligent.
NO! That's not morality, that's stupidity. Superman doesn't kill for reasons, not just an absolute without thinking. He doesn't kill because he doesn't want to be judge, jury and executioner. He doesn't kill because his power makes it too easy. He has other options, and as long as he has other options, he won't kill because he doesn't want to abuse his power. In the Superman vs Aliens comic people keep dying because Superman won't take action. He let's people he knows are intelligent, caring, rational beings die, because of the off chance that xenomorphs aren't the slavering beasts they appear to be. Not just once, but over and over, and it's sickeningly wrong. Now I'm not going to say that The Man of Steel puts the situation so starkly, but there comes a time when Superman isn't handing down judgement like a god and is just protecting innocents in a desperate situation.
Zod has an army. I haven't seen the movie, so I don't know if it's possible to put Zod in a red sun prison to begin with, but I don't see how you keep him there along with an entire army of Kryptonians. Maybe Superman has some possible option in the movie, I don't know, but I'm not going to say it must be bad simply because he chooses to kill. There should be circumstances that would cause Superman to kill. He his "morality" is just a cardboard cutout if it can't deal with the reality that sometimes death is necessary. Let him kick himself afterwards for not being strong enough to find another option, but saying he's not Superman because he killed in a war with equals is to miss the entire point of why Superman should have a no kill policy in general.
NO! That's not morality, that's stupidity. Superman doesn't kill for reasons, not just an absolute without thinking. He doesn't kill because he doesn't want to be judge, jury and executioner. He doesn't kill because his power makes it too easy. He has other options, and as long as he has other options, he won't kill because he doesn't want to abuse his power. In the Superman vs Aliens comic people keep dying because Superman won't take action. He let's people he knows are intelligent, caring, rational beings die, because of the off chance that xenomorphs aren't the slavering beasts they appear to be. Not just once, but over and over, and it's sickeningly wrong. Now I'm not going to say that The Man of Steel puts the situation so starkly, but there comes a time when Superman isn't handing down judgement like a god and is just protecting innocents in a desperate situation.
Zod has an army. I haven't seen the movie, so I don't know if it's possible to put Zod in a red sun prison to begin with, but I don't see how you keep him there along with an entire army of Kryptonians. Maybe Superman has some possible option in the movie, I don't know, but I'm not going to say it must be bad simply because he chooses to kill. There should be circumstances that would cause Superman to kill. He his "morality" is just a cardboard cutout if it can't deal with the reality that sometimes death is necessary. Let him kick himself afterwards for not being strong enough to find another option, but saying he's not Superman because he killed in a war with equals is to miss the entire point of why Superman should have a no kill policy in general.
I saw it last night. It was alright. I thought Henry Cavill was really good as Superman and the stuff about Clark traveling the world as a kind of guardian angel was good, but the film as a whole was too cold and dour. I also have to echo Mark Waid's points about the film.
I think it's ok for people to say "this is a different superman" and even "I'm staying true to my vision of superman by not viewing this work."
I think it's also ok for people to say, "I really enjoyed this superman."
I don't think it's ok for people to say, "I like avocados, they go great with most foods."
That's just sick and wrong.
I think it's also ok for people to say, "I really enjoyed this superman."
I don't think it's ok for people to say, "I like avocados, they go great with most foods."
That's just sick and wrong.
I will fight you.
I'm not reading spoilers in here and I cannot fucking wait to see it. I love Superman but I honestly could care less if they mess with the Mythos. We are going Tuesday though so I'll have to avoid all the spoilers till then. So far most of the reviewers I trust are loving it so I feel pretty confident about it.
The twist is Superman is M Night Shyamalan.
The twist is it's about a guy who thinks he can have a career in print media!
GasBandit
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"Ha ha ha! Wait... awwww. I made myself sad."
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Dave
Staff member
Just got back. Zack Snyder HATES buildings that are larger than 3 stories high. He also hates all planes and helicopters. And he loves black body armor.
Zod was nigh on perfect, though, as was the guy who played Supes, although him being weakened during a major point was nonsensical.
Anyway, it was a lot of style with little substance, pretty much what you expect to see from Snyder.
Zod was nigh on perfect, though, as was the guy who played Supes, although him being weakened during a major point was nonsensical.
Anyway, it was a lot of style with little substance, pretty much what you expect to see from Snyder.
Agreed. Loved the movie. Most of what people are complaining about here I enjoyed. Even Pa Kent. I'll see it again as well.
I wonder how many people in my theater sat there thinking "I can't wait for this movie to finish so I can rush home and let the world know how horrible it was." People were flying out the parking lot like bats out of hell.
While I totally agree that Superman snapping Zod's neck is something that Superman would never ever do, I do feel the need to point out that Superman totally killed Zod in the original Superman 2 and Lois totally killed Ursa.
There's no way they survived those falls in the Fortress of Solitude.
Yes, I know that there's talk of an alternate ending showing them still alive, but the film doesn't show or even imply that they lived.
The more I think about it, Zod's death in Superman 2 is even more out of character for Superman, because the Phantom Zone priosoners were completely depowered, so Superman chucked a completely defenseless guy down a giant cravasse.
There's no way they survived those falls in the Fortress of Solitude.
Yes, I know that there's talk of an alternate ending showing them still alive, but the film doesn't show or even imply that they lived.
The more I think about it, Zod's death in Superman 2 is even more out of character for Superman, because the Phantom Zone priosoners were completely depowered, so Superman chucked a completely defenseless guy down a giant cravasse.
See, I'm more willing to accept that one BECAUSE of the alternate footage. It may not have made it into the original theatrical cut, but it has made it into the Donner cut and apparently some cuts for TV. It was written and filmed, but not edited in, which means it could've been just taken out for time reasons, not story. So just because they didn't show them die doesn't mean they were dead. Comic book rule #1 when defeating bad guys: no body, no proof of death. See also, the scores of times that Joker was seemingly killed.
IHOP IHOP IHOP IHOP SEARS!
I give the movie a 3 star out of 5.
Pros: Great fun, great characters, fantastic acting and wonderful special effects. Oh and no slow motion sex scene.
Cons: Complete disregard for anything to do with Superman being the very essence of what he is supposed to be. Synder doesn't give a shit about who Superman really is or what he stands for. Also, for completely fucking over the Pa Kent character.
Can someone like LittleKagsin go to this film and enjoy it? Sure if she doesn't care about who Superman is. Can someone like ThatNickGuy completely hate it? Of course, because he cares about who Superman is.
If you want to go to a movie and not care about who the main character really is? More power to you. I however will not be funding this film any further with subsequent viewing or Blu ray purchases. Sadly the former type of movie goer is the majority and this film will do well.
Pros: Great fun, great characters, fantastic acting and wonderful special effects. Oh and no slow motion sex scene.
Cons: Complete disregard for anything to do with Superman being the very essence of what he is supposed to be. Synder doesn't give a shit about who Superman really is or what he stands for. Also, for completely fucking over the Pa Kent character.
Can someone like LittleKagsin go to this film and enjoy it? Sure if she doesn't care about who Superman is. Can someone like ThatNickGuy completely hate it? Of course, because he cares about who Superman is.
If you want to go to a movie and not care about who the main character really is? More power to you. I however will not be funding this film any further with subsequent viewing or Blu ray purchases. Sadly the former type of movie goer is the majority and this film will do well.
No slow mo at all that I can remember, which boggled my mind, questioning whether or not Zach Snyder really directed it. I'm going to spoil some shit in this post, so just don't read further if you haven't seen it.
The story was nigh non-existent, but I didn't expect much.
What I did like was the representation of their powers. It was also neat watching the villains slowly learn what their capabilities are on Earth. I even kind of liked how Krypton was portrayed. I don't know how much of the natural birth stuff was taken from the any of the comics, as I'm not very familiar with Superman (the best Superman story I've ever read was the first Samaritan story from Astro City) but I thought it was a nifty take on his alien origins.
It's not the Superman from the comics (or maybe it sort of is, there's been how many different interpretations of the character?). It's its own thing, for good or bad.
Stuff I would have done differently (minor changes I mean). I probably would have had Zod be more stoic and calculated in the opening sequence of Krypton, before letting him go fucking Michael Shannon batshit fucking nuts after the world engine is stopped and he totally loses his mind. That's just me, he seemed too emotional the whole time.
The story was nigh non-existent, but I didn't expect much.
What I did like was the representation of their powers. It was also neat watching the villains slowly learn what their capabilities are on Earth. I even kind of liked how Krypton was portrayed. I don't know how much of the natural birth stuff was taken from the any of the comics, as I'm not very familiar with Superman (the best Superman story I've ever read was the first Samaritan story from Astro City) but I thought it was a nifty take on his alien origins.
It's not the Superman from the comics (or maybe it sort of is, there's been how many different interpretations of the character?). It's its own thing, for good or bad.
Stuff I would have done differently (minor changes I mean). I probably would have had Zod be more stoic and calculated in the opening sequence of Krypton, before letting him go fucking Michael Shannon batshit fucking nuts after the world engine is stopped and he totally loses his mind. That's just me, he seemed too emotional the whole time.
On the positive side, there's also some pretty neat alien death battle with evil sub-commander and giant guy too where the military airstrikes the main street of an American town with no concern for civilians.
Jor El is supposed to be a scientist, whom nobody will believe about the imminent destruction of Krypton. That's the reason that Kal El was the only one to survive.
I can really forgive re-interpretation of Jor El, though, because he's been portrayed as everything from a cold emotionless Megela type charcter to a gentile and benevolent scientist in the various origin stories.
I can really forgive re-interpretation of Jor El, though, because he's been portrayed as everything from a cold emotionless Megela type charcter to a gentile and benevolent scientist in the various origin stories.
Even the positive reviews make this sound like a waste of money for me.
As does much of this summer. Probably the only movie left to see is Pacific Rim. I guess I'll save my gift certificates for the end of the year when the interesting stuff is coming out.
As does much of this summer. Probably the only movie left to see is Pacific Rim. I guess I'll save my gift certificates for the end of the year when the interesting stuff is coming out.
I just got back from it, and I agree with pretty much what Gilgamesh said about it.
Short review: It's not a terrible movie, nor is it a great one. It's a fun but flawed movie. However, it's really hard to call it a Superman movie. Superman didn't act like Superman, Jonathan Kent didn't act like Jonathan Kent, Lois Lane was kinda only a bit like Lois Lane, and you could've replaced Perry White with a cardboard cutout of Laurence Fishbourne and nothing would have been lost.
Now, regarding the horrible deviation from Superman's established character (really big spoilers):
Short review: It's not a terrible movie, nor is it a great one. It's a fun but flawed movie. However, it's really hard to call it a Superman movie. Superman didn't act like Superman, Jonathan Kent didn't act like Jonathan Kent, Lois Lane was kinda only a bit like Lois Lane, and you could've replaced Perry White with a cardboard cutout of Laurence Fishbourne and nothing would have been lost.
Now, regarding the horrible deviation from Superman's established character (really big spoilers):
I kinda see what they were trying to do with the scene, but it was very poorly executed. Superman and Zod go through their huge climactic battle, and end up in the Metropolis equivalent of Grand Central Station. Superman has Zod in a headlock, and Zod activates his heat vision, aiming the beam at a nearby trapped family. He slowly moves the beam towards the innocent civilians, while Superman begs him to stop, until Zod almost hits the humans and Superman breaks his neck. Superman then falls to his knees, screams in anguish, and Lois comes in to comfort him.
The idea of the scene is that Superman had no choice, he had to kill Zod to save the humans. There's an earlier scene where Zod declares that basically either Superman will have to die, or Zod will, because Zod will never stop killing humans; this is meant to be foreshadowing for the death of Zod. However, the problem with the execution of the scene is that Superman has lots of choices. Zod's on his knees, in a headlock. Superman can't fly up and away, dragging Zod through the roof and away from the innocents? Superman can't, I dunno, turn Zod's head in another direction, so the heat beam doesn't go near the humans? Superman can't use any of his powers to stop a guy from slowly moving his heat beam towards a stationary target? Come on!
Superman's lack of concern for collateral damage is also quite jarring. He repeatedly deliberately tosses his opponents into buildings, vehicles, etc. All in all, it doesn't feel like Superman.
The idea of the scene is that Superman had no choice, he had to kill Zod to save the humans. There's an earlier scene where Zod declares that basically either Superman will have to die, or Zod will, because Zod will never stop killing humans; this is meant to be foreshadowing for the death of Zod. However, the problem with the execution of the scene is that Superman has lots of choices. Zod's on his knees, in a headlock. Superman can't fly up and away, dragging Zod through the roof and away from the innocents? Superman can't, I dunno, turn Zod's head in another direction, so the heat beam doesn't go near the humans? Superman can't use any of his powers to stop a guy from slowly moving his heat beam towards a stationary target? Come on!
Superman's lack of concern for collateral damage is also quite jarring. He repeatedly deliberately tosses his opponents into buildings, vehicles, etc. All in all, it doesn't feel like Superman.
I was staying out of this thread, but then avacados were mentioned.
I'm a huge Henry Cavill fan. How was he in the film? I took my daughter and her friend to see Epic yesterday and it was hard to not want to see this after being in a theatre all afternoon yesterday.
I actually thought he was really good as Superman. I just wish that the film as a whole was better.
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