Venture Brothers. VENTURE BROTHERS!

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I used to think this show got better every episode, but I don't know about this one. It was good, and still better than most things on TV, but it felt like most of the characters just took a step backwards. Maybe that was intentional. It almost feels like it was. Rusty's proven himself a capable scientist, and now suddenly, he can't come up with an antidote? Dean's mind is just filled with boob fantasies after all that growth? I don't know. Seems like a forced effort to reset the character growth clock, which is unfortunate to me because that's the best part of this show. On top of that, there were way too many characters crammed into this episode, so no one got the justice they deserved.
 
GasBandit

GasBandit

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I liked it, but I understand what you mean about so many characters. I think maybe they felt they had to show the entire ensemble because it's been, what, two years since season 4 ended? And their whole audience was jonesing. Maybe I'm just happy it's back on the air again.
 
AshburnerX

AshburnerX

- Dean's talked to, what... five girls his own age and the most he's gotten is a kiss? I can buy that he's still incredibly sexually frustrated and incredibly awkward around girls. However, he made more relationship progress with the four armed girl in 3 months than he did with Triana in YEARS. Like, they had an actual date. I'd still call that growth.

- Dean also had that whole thing with the bed and the attic. He also basically called Rusty out on using the beds on his kids, despite knowing first hand what kind of person it would make. He's clearly ready for space of his own and wants to become his own man, so again... growth.

- Rusty had to come up with a solution to a problem that had taken a MASTER OF THE FIELD years to complete on his own, and had to do it in days. It's not surprising he couldn't do it in this case... and while I'd say Rusty has made great strides in actually getting out of his father's shadow, he still kinda sucks at all of this.

- Billy and Pete had a huge amount of growth this episode. They confronted their first villain, won, and decontaminated the whole area in time to give Jonas Jr. the shield. These guys are still amateurs in the hero/villain thing but they are WAY better super scientists that Rusty is.

Though I agree with you about the too many characters thing... but I think that kinda had to happen in order to address all the stuff that happened in the Season 4 finale. Not saying they did a good job of it, but that it kinda had to happen.
 
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I mean I'm not arguing with any of that (except maybe Billy and White--that felt kind of status quo to me). More like I'm arguing in spite of all that. despite all that. It felt like they opened with a weaker move than usual. Like I said, still best thing on tv in my opinion, just went from exponential to linear improvement over previous episodes or something like that.
 
GasBandit

GasBandit

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fade said:
I mean I'm not arguing with any of that (except maybe Billy and White--that felt kind of status quo to me). More like I'm arguing in spite of all that. despite all that. It felt like they opened with a weaker move than usual. Like I said, still best thing on tv in my opinion, just went from exponential to linear improvement over previous episodes or something like that.
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Well, every episode can't be a season finale.
 
Bowielee

Bowielee

Prior to looking up the new episode, I didn't even know that A Very Venture Halloween even existed. I'm glad I ... um... "found" it, because there's kind of a major plot point in it with Dean.
 
AshburnerX

AshburnerX

Bowielee said:
Prior to looking up the new episode, I didn't even know that A Very Venture Halloween even existed. I'm glad I ... um... "found" it, because there's kind of a major plot point in it with Dean.
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Yeah, they showed it in Oct. to tide over the fans. I think it's kinda weird how it happens DURING the hour long opener, but I guess they had to fit it in somehow. Still, at least it's up on the website.
 
blotsfan

blotsfan

My nitpicky plot hole from that:

Dean references halloween before Sgt Hatred grows boobs, but he has them in the special.
 
GasBandit

GasBandit

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When Pete White burst into flames at the slightest touch of the morning sun, I had a surprised yet hearty guffaw.
 
AshburnerX

AshburnerX

GasBandit said:
When Pete White burst into flames at the slightest touch of the morning sun, I had a surprised yet hearty guffaw.
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Pete wasn't shitting around when he said he shouldn't be in the sun.

And this episode confirmed what we always knew about Jonas Venture: He was a colossal asshole whenever the mood struck him. It really does explain why Rusty acts the way he does.

Honestly, I can't even feel bad about how this is all worked out. Rusty gets to visit a fun little island for a few days a year, the natives make a mint off him and seem to legitimately like him if they are willing to go to this much trouble for such a small scam. It almost makes me wonder why they haven't turned the entire island into a resort...

Also, Brock's illegitimate kids were awesome.

It's only episode 3 of the season and they've ALL been amazing.
 
GasBandit

GasBandit

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You know, it occurs to me there are interesting parallels between "Spanakopita" and "Ghosts of the Sargasso." Both make reference to neglected children causing minor "villains" to turn face (and later get kicked around), though the former is Rusty and the latter is Dean.
 
AshburnerX

AshburnerX

GasBandit said:
You know, it occurs to me there are interesting parallels between "Spanakopita" and "Ghosts of the Sargasso." Both make reference to neglected children causing minor "villains" to turn face (and later get kicked around), though the former is Rusty and the latter is Dean.
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It might have to do with what causes villains to go into the costume work. The Monarch claims that he was abandoned by his parents at a young age and raised by butterflies but some events have put that into question. The Monarch also tried to bound with Hank and Dean during that one episode. Doctor Killinger said that Rusty was a perfect fit for the super villain work and we KNOW that his dad was a neglectful monster. Dr. Zin had his own abandonment issues as well.

Basically, it might be that villains see a lot of them of themselves in their captives and undergo a kind of reverse Stockholm syndrome because of it.
 
Shawn

Shawn

I'm interested to see what kind of personal connection that the Monarch has with Rusty now that it's been revealed that they were possibly good friends in their youth. The Monarch has clearly fabricated and forgotten a lot of his past, likely through personal trauma. If Dr. Venture knows he obviously doesn't care to mention or is at least ashamed to mention it.
Something I appreciated about the most recent episode (Spanikopita) is how, on rare occasion, the series manages to be surprisingly uplifting, despite the fact that it's main theme (according to the creators) is failure. Dr. Venture had such a troubled childhood that it's nice to see when someone actually wants to do something to make it better. Yes the islanders had intended to use him for ransom, but in the end they felt so awful that Rusty could have such a neglectful father that they created the holiday for him just to try and salvage some part of his trip to Greece. Yes they also do appreciate getting as much money from him as possible, but I think it's clear that they don't harbor a particular grudge against Rusty himself for what his father did to them after returning Rusty. They actually clearly like him and want him to have a good time. Yes there is some personal gain involved again, but still. It's actually rather touching.

The series has done this in other episodes too. I found The Dr is Sin and Everybody Comes to Hank's to be wonderful episodes just for that fact that they highlight some of Dr. Ventures few respectable traits. He's hurt by the thought that he actually has the disposition to become a villain and lets the chance of money and power slip away from him because it's not who he wanted to be. And he's shown care and responsibility when all he wanted was to be part of Dermot's life when he found out he got the mother pregnant. Only getting that torn from him when he was threatened to stay out of their lives forever.

Unlike so many shows the characters of Venture Bros evolve so much that hands down it has to be one of the best scripted animated series in recent times.
 
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fade

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That's the beauty of Rusty Venture. You really, really want to like him. They've made you care about him in spite of the fact that he grew up to be a real dick. You realize what an self-centered ass his father was, and he makes a nice counterpoint. It's really well done, which is why a 15 minute animated show on late night cartoon network is my favorite on television right now.
 
Frank

Frank

Yeah, when a new season finally boots up, it continues to justify the wait in years in between them.

Best animated series (and in the short list of best series) of all time.
 
Bowielee

Bowielee

For the record, Shoreleave and Ray Gillette from Archer are the most positive gay male representations in media today.

I've been wanting to post that for a while now, and this seemed like the most appropriate place for it.
 
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fade

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Bowielee said:
For the record, Shoreleave and Ray Gillette from Archer are the most positive gay male representations in media today.

I've been wanting to post that for a while now, and this seemed like the most appropriate place for it.
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Kind of sad they're on niche adult cartoons most people don't watch instead of mainstream TV.
 
Bowielee

Bowielee

fade said:
Kind of sad they're on niche adult cartoons most people don't watch instead of mainstream TV.
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I like the fact that they're unapologetically swishy, but are just as badass, if not more badass, than their straight male counterparts.

Unfortunately in mainstream media we have to date the WORST representation of gay men in that douchebag from Happy Endings.
 
AshburnerX

AshburnerX

BananaHands said:
Also, can't wait for this to come to a head:
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I really don't see how Dean gets to complain to his dad about this. He would be dead if his dad hadn't cloned him a billion times, neither of the boys had a lick of common sense until bad stuff happened to them that didn't revolve around guys in butterfly suits, and its not like their dad knew how to raise them any better. He had their life but worse. If you look at their lives and compare them to his, they got off easy.

Say what you will, but at least Rusty understood what he was getting his sons into. His own father didn't.

Besides, hasn't Rusty loved all his clone sons? He even said it himself, they have all of Hank and Dean's memories. As far as he's concerned, they are Hank and Dean, even if they aren't the first.
 
BananaHands

BananaHands

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AshburnerX said:
I really don't see how Dean gets to complain to his dad about this. He would be dead if his dad hadn't cloned him a billion times, neither of the boys had a lick of common sense until bad stuff happened to them that didn't revolve around guys in butterfly suits, and its not like their dad knew how to raise them any better. He had their life but worse. If you look at their lives and compare them to his, they got off easy.

Say what you will, but at least Rusty understood what he was getting his sons into. His own father didn't.

Besides, hasn't Rusty loved all his clone sons? He even said it himself, they have all of Hank and Dean's memories. As far as he's concerned, they are Hank and Dean, even if they aren't the first.
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I think it's the repeated lying that bugged Dean, especially since they found the clones in Season 3 and proceeded to kill most of them. Also, Dean probably realizes that it was his clone that attacked him in Season 4. But yeah, he's being an overall grump this season, but knowing that there were clones and that he had died several times probably made Dean realize what his father was putting them through.
 
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