I'm writing a big lecture this morning so I am not providing you with links, but he's basically right. Eyewitness testimony shouldn't even be admissible it is so bad.
Yeah, I agree.
[News] The Trayvon Martin Discussion Thread
- Thread starter Charlie Don't Surf
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I'm writing a big lecture this morning so I am not providing you with links, but he's basically right. Eyewitness testimony shouldn't even be admissible it is so bad.
I'm tempted to just do a "LMGTFYS" response but you get far better results when using Google Scholar, for which I don't think that exists. So, go knock yourself out.
But heck, the green-cab-blue-cab-fallacy alone should be enough to decide against trusting eye witnesses.
I SWEAR I saw a ninja somewhere! Hmm, nope, must just be me....
But heck, the green-cab-blue-cab-fallacy alone should be enough to decide against trusting eye witnesses.
I SWEAR I saw a ninja somewhere! Hmm, nope, must just be me....
Otherwise I could tell you UFOs are real and then when you asked for proof, provide you with a LMGTFY.
Stop using your proven science to support your position. Merica has no use for that!
I once heard a man testify about how untrustworthy other witnesses were, and I believe him 110%.
I once heard a man testify about how untrustworthy other witnesses were, and I believe him 110%.
84% of what you believe is made up. 100% true story.
95% of statistics are made up on the spot anyway.
figmentPez
Staff member
62.1% of statistics that aren't accurate to 3 significant figures are based on flawed data.
Necronic
Staff member
As someone who has been on the recieving end of a serious beatdown I have to say that the most damning evidence against the idea of a severe beating are the pictures of the injuries. Those in no way look like someone who has been punched more than once or twice. In one fight I was punched ONCE in the face and it looked worse than his broken nose picture. (I got a ride home in the back of an angry policemans car that night!)
Also:
Also:
BananaHands
Staff member
So, listening to these closing statements...
I don't know. I think Zimmerman is a piece of shit. I think he was actually malicious in killing Trayvon Martin. I just don't like him.
But, that's not how our legal system works. If you say that there is absolute proof that Zimmerman killed Martin, then you're fooling yourself. It sucks. I hate it. But I also acknowledge that there's no real way of knowing what happened. He's not guilty beyond a reasonable doubt.
So yeah. That's my $0.02.
Also, someone take the prosecutor to a public speaking class or something. He needs more gusto.
I don't know. I think Zimmerman is a piece of shit. I think he was actually malicious in killing Trayvon Martin. I just don't like him.
But, that's not how our legal system works. If you say that there is absolute proof that Zimmerman killed Martin, then you're fooling yourself. It sucks. I hate it. But I also acknowledge that there's no real way of knowing what happened. He's not guilty beyond a reasonable doubt.
So yeah. That's my $0.02.
Also, someone take the prosecutor to a public speaking class or something. He needs more gusto.
There is absolute proof that Zimmerman killed Martin. Literally that fact isn't in contention.
Now if he murdered him or if he killed Martin in self-defense is where it gets murky.
And actually the burden of proof has actually been flipped here. It's up to Zimmerman and his defense attorneys to prove that Zimmerman's killing of Martin was justified. Which maybe they have to the jury but honestly I don't think it's possible.
Essentially this. Ether Zimmerman does time or he's dead within the week. This case is simply too emotionally charged.
BananaHands
Staff member
Er, yeah. I meant murdered. But Pon Pon has been playing in my head all day and I'm all jumbled up.
People say things like this, but I'm not that cynical. Remember the case where a young (21?) mother allegedly murdered her own baby, wrapping it in duct tape and throwing it in a dumpster? She was not found guilty, and people speculated the same thing before the verdict was out: either she's guilty, or there will be 'street justice.' It did not come to pass.
Necronic
Staff member
One other point about the seriousness of the fight that led to the gunshot. Martin has been described as having only a small abrasion on his left ring finger below the knuckle. Anyone who has thrown a bareknuckle punch at someone knows how easy it is to completely trash your hands.
I don't think I will ever buy the description that he was beaten.
I don't think I will ever buy the description that he was beaten.
Yes, but that wasn't promoted/built into a race issue.
No, certainly, and I'm not trying to draw that parallel. Any time people get emotionally charged, there is very often the suggestion that there will be some kind of mob-justice if a certain verdict isn't chosen, and that I'm sceptical this prediction will hold true. I admit, I could be ill-considering how the racial feelings may encourage some to act violently, but I remain either stoically hopeful people are better than that, or stupidly doubtful that people aren't better than that, depending on how one chooses to see it.
Chad, dude, I love you like a brother, but that was perhaps the most naive thing I've ever read from you.
In the event of an acquittal, there _WILL_ be a riot. I promise you. Whether it's confined to down there or if there's spillover in other major metropolitan areas is something else. But I guarantee you that folks will run riot down there.
In the event of an acquittal, there _WILL_ be a riot. I promise you. Whether it's confined to down there or if there's spillover in other major metropolitan areas is something else. But I guarantee you that folks will run riot down there.
Fair enough.
I live relatively insulated from 'racial tension' (I can't pretend there isn't any, but I also can't pretend it's on a level as it is in some cities) so my estimation for people's behaviour when that sort of feeling runs high may be way off.
Also, despite my regular plumbing the depths of hopeless despair, I do view people as generally good and hope they won't, you know... riot.
GasBandit
Staff member
See, you've got everything backwards. I'm subjected daily to a racial crucible in which bigotry is arguably worse than it was 20 years ago, am a complete stranger to depression, yet consider the vast majority of what passes for humanity to be on par with the smelly stuff I dig out of the treads of my shoes after walking where there isn't a sidewalk.
Just flip allllll that around, man.
I can practically hear the cars being overturned already.
Just flip allllll that around, man.
I can practically hear the cars being overturned already.
Then he shook 2 cans of beer at the jury.
Now that would be good TV.
It is interesting, I think, the difference in what we see. I'm lucky, I guess, to find it so strange that racial tension could be that open and dangerous today. :/
I don't invite you to be depressed, but try to be cheerier about people. Sometimes it's worth it.
Man, people riot after BASKETBALL games, and no one died in any of those.
Sigh. That's true.
Vancouver rioted after they lost the Stanley Cup, I'm still disappointed about that. The riot, not the loss. I don't know hockey really. I'm a bad Canadian.
From the little that I know, it seems that Zimmerman:
1. Should not have chased after Martin.
2. After the "fight", he should have run away.
3. Should have only shot someone if he was trapped (i.e. could not run away), and afraid for his life.
I think carrying the gun gave hime some false bravado, and led to a really stupid and unnecessary event.
Did he go with the intent to kill? I'd say it's likely, but not easy to prove.
1. Should not have chased after Martin.
2. After the "fight", he should have run away.
3. Should have only shot someone if he was trapped (i.e. could not run away), and afraid for his life.
I think carrying the gun gave hime some false bravado, and led to a really stupid and unnecessary event.
Did he go with the intent to kill? I'd say it's likely, but not easy to prove.
Clearly. A good Canadian would have apologized.
A good Canadian would have apologised.
How does assaulting a man, make you innocent?