Verizon & Obama: all your calls are belong to us.

Gared

Gared

What's that Microsoft? You like to trade details about 0-day vulnerabilities in your software products to the FBI, NSA, CIA, and various branches of the US Military before you make a fix for the vulnerability available publicly, in exchange for benefits including access to classified data? Oh, and along with Google, Apple, Intel (McAfee), and just about everyone else, you also like to provide those same agencies with detailed information about the hardware that all of your customers use?

Man, I did not see that coming. /Sarcasm
 
strawman

strawman

Tress said:
I wouldn't want to give those people more ammo.
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Then don't do stupid stuff you have to mark "SECRET."

Keep in mind that he promised a period of public comment before he signed any bill. Not only has be broken that by signing bills the same hour they pass congress, but he's signing bills in secret that congress is passing in secret.

Open and transparent cannot in any way describe this situation.[DOUBLEPOST=1371238901][/DOUBLEPOST]On another note, I love how so many companies are coming forth with public letters requesting the gov't release them from some of their gag orders.

They are skirting the law - revealing to the public that they are under a similar order to Verizon without breaking the gag order is quite interesting.
 
GasBandit

GasBandit

Staff member
stienman said:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jun/30/nsa-leaks-us-buggingeuropean-allies

BTW, we're bugging the embassies of our allies.

Not that this isn't standard practice, but now that it's in the open (and their efforts to bug our embassies aren't under scrutiny) various countries in the EU are acting all huffy.
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There's doing it, and there's getting caught doing it. When it comes to other nations, everybody spies on everybody. I have a harder time getting worked up over that than the political misuse of snooper data being used by a government against its own populace.
 
Bubble181

Bubble181

True enough, but with your allies, you're supposed to be working together and just sort of keeping tabs on things about one another. It seems they've been listening to all kinds of odd shit for years - I mean, why the f*ck would you even CARE what goes on in the Belgian embassy in Paris, for example?
I don't mean "oh, I thought since we were friends you wouldn't look my way" - obviously the US is going to be keeping tabs on GB, France, Germany, the EU, Israel and so on. It just seems they've been doing it a lot more than we were thinking, in ways we weren't expecting and were illegal, and often on subject matter where US national security really doesn't enter into it.

The whole "hiding it from the populace" is bad. The whole "hiding it from your allies" may be less ethically wrong, and I agree, but it's still pretty shitty and gives a bad image. You may or may not believe so, but anything the US does is considered a "see, they do it so so can we" by every other country in the world. This can be seen as greenlighting covert operations, not sanctioned by the country where it's taking place, even in peacetime and on allied soil, from countries such as Saudi-Arabia, Turkey and Syriah. Yet another thing we won't be able to use to paint them as "evil" or "wrong" since you're doing it too.

I do agree that it's not as big an issue as the other bit, mind.
 
Ravenpoe

Ravenpoe

Bubble181 said:
True enough, but with your allies, you're supposed to be working together and just sort of keeping tabs on things about one another. It seems they've been listening to all kinds of odd shit for years - I mean, why the f*ck would you even CARE what goes on in the Belgian embassy in Paris, for example?
I don't mean "oh, I thought since we were friends you wouldn't look my way" - obviously the US is going to be keeping tabs on GB, France, Germany, the EU, Israel and so on. It just seems they've been doing it a lot more than we were thinking, in ways we weren't expecting and were illegal, and often on subject matter where US national security really doesn't enter into it.

The whole "hiding it from the populace" is bad. The whole "hiding it from your allies" may be less ethically wrong, and I agree, but it's still pretty shitty and gives a bad image. You may or may not believe so, but anything the US does is considered a "see, they do it so so can we" by every other country in the world. This can be seen as greenlighting covert operations, not sanctioned by the country where it's taking place, even in peacetime and on allied soil, from countries such as Saudi-Arabia, Turkey and Syriah. Yet another thing we won't be able to use to paint them as "evil" or "wrong" since you're doing it too.

I do agree that it's not as big an issue as the other bit, mind.
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They have always done it, and every other nation has always done the same thing. They even know the other is doing it, but now that one's been caught, they have to pretend to not have already known that, and act outraged.
 
strawman

strawman

During the weeks of debates triggered by Edward Snowden and his release of information about a classified National Security Agency spying program, the story has moved further and further from the actual surveillance and centered instead on the international cat-and-mouse game to find him.

...

The loss of a Democratic opposition to the framework of counterterrorism policy has been one of the most notable aspects of Obama's term in office. Although Obama ran in 2008 as a candidate who would change the way the government conducted its business and restore a better balance with civil liberties, it has not turned out that way. Obama has barely dismantled any of the Bush programs, and sometimes even expanded their reach in the use of drone strikes and the targeting of American citizens. He has also undertaken an aggressive posture toward those who criticize his program.
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http://www.cnn.com/2013/07/08/opinion/zelizer-democrats-nsa-spying/index.html?hpt=hp_t4

Note - this is opinion published by CNN, not an article.

It is notable how quickly the story evolved from "US government is spying on every single citizen" to "What is Snowden's next move?"

It is sad that those people who decried Bush's policies are now silent, and in some cases defending those same policies under Obama.
 
Dave

Dave

Staff member
Reverent-one said:
So there's an admendment up for a vote today to end funding for the NSA to use blanket phone surveilance under the Patriot Act. Might be something you want to call your representative about.

http://defundthensa.com/
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Already have. The answer was basically, "Thanks for contacting us! Your views are important to us. In the interest of national security, blah blah blah..." So thanks for contacting me, but I don't care about your views because they are not the ones that my corporate and party owners say I should hold.
 
Gared

Gared

Really lovin' the fact that the Obama Admin wants to shut this amendment down based on the fact that this "isn't the product of an informed, open, or deliberative process." That's right folks... holding a congressional debate on a proposed amendment is not a deliberative process.
 
strawman

strawman

Dear Obama,

When you act on a law that congress can't easily undo, defunding it is one of the checks and balances they have to effectively remove the teeth from the bad law.

Keep in mind that you did the same thing when you told the AG not to defend DOMA.

It's just another loophole that makes sure you all have hold of the reins collectively.
 
GasBandit

GasBandit

Staff member
That half the country still approves of him is further illustration of our manifest decline and inescapable doom.

The intelligence of Carter and the integrity of Nixon.
 
sixpackshaker

sixpackshaker

AshburnerX said:
No, he'd need the reverse. The integrity of Carter (the man is a SAINT) and the intelligence of Nixon (who ALMOST got away with some very serious shit).
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Carter was a Nuclear Physicist, when he went to Three Mile Island - he was not there to tour, he was there to help.

Nixon was a Quaker... he kinda did not live up to that though.
 
Gared

Gared

And the Amash/Conyers amendment fails, but only by a margin of 217-205. Standing strong with the White House were none other than Supreme Leader Pres. Obama's The Messiah's staunchest political allies, John Boehner and Michele Bachmann (as well as Nancy Pelosi and 214 other congresspersons, full list here). As for Washington state? Apparently our mostly "liberal" democratic congressidiots think that spying on all of America is far more valuable than upholding the constitution, by a margin of 6 - 3, with one abstention.


Yes: Susan DelBene (D), Cathy McMorris Rogers (R), and Jim McDermott (D) - this guy's a real idiot, but it's still nice to see him vote for this one.
Noes: Doc Hastings (R), Dennis Heck (D), Derek Kilmer (D), Rick Larsen (D), Dave Reichert (R), Adam Smith (D)
Did Not Vote: Jaime Herrera Beutler (R)
 
Krisken

Krisken

Yup, it's crap like this I'm talking about when I say there is plenty of real stuff to be mad at this administration about.
 
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