USA Federal government: CLOSED
- Thread starter strawman
- Start date
Personally I think that anything other than this is ludicrous. Make the people in power use what they make for everybody else. Apply this to public transit (IE: if you promote public transit as "what people should use" then you lose your right to drive around for anything related to work) and you'll REALLY see the whining start. Let them use their own cars on their own time for driving their kids to baseball practice, or whatever, but just see how much they HATE having to go on the train and buses with everybody else. But make their health care the same as medicare (or whatever poor people are supposed to be happy with) and see how that goes.
Somebody proposed that a while back in a city I used to live in (Calgary) because city council was promoting the use of transit so much due to lack of parking in the downtown core. Said that they shouldn't get their parking spots at City Hall, and have to use transit every day, since they seemed to think it was such a great idea. Needless to say they did NOT vote that for themselves. Then mysteriously they stopped promoting transit as loudly! Gee I wonder why?
They should cave to the republicans demands! They always do!
GasBandit
Staff member
CNN Polling shows a not insubstantial portion of the country agrees, though the republican blamers are more numerous. The split went 46% blame republicans, 36% blame democrats. 57% of the nation oppose TAHA, but 60% of the nation would rather have TAHA than a shutdown.
So whether either of us agrees with one side of the other, the fact remains that there is a very real disagreement about not only the bill, but whose fault this mess is.
We love consistency.
Congress will never have to come down to the step of us peasants because they're the ones who control their pay and care. They won't vote against their own well-being, even if it's only the same well-being foisted by them on others.
Congress will never have to come down to the step of us peasants because they're the ones who control their pay and care. They won't vote against their own well-being, even if it's only the same well-being foisted by them on others.
Well congress and senators having to get their own health insurance through the exchanges is already a part of the healthcare bill. Democrats actually supported it full heartedly when a republican put it in as a sort of "poison pill."
The Vitter Amendment (Which I assume we're talking about) actually dealt with cutting off the money that would be spent buying congressional aides health insurance off the exchanges. Which would mean that Congressional aides would have to buy their own health insurance with no assistance from the government making it a de facto pay cut with no real benefit.
I do wish we could have rules like you are proposing for public transit. Maybe then America could actually come up with decent mass transit outside of New York. I honestly would love to take the train into work but it turns a 30 minute hellish drive into a 2 hour hellish experience.
Well, mass transit does have several advantages over private cars. Not perhaps for the individual, but for the society as a whole. For instance it is more fuel-efficient, more environment-friendly, and can transport more people per hour (relieving congestion). I think efficient mass transit is generally a good thing, and it's a shame if a possibly good idea gets killed like that.
Those percentages for blame seem to rather closely match support numbers for the parties (currently 42-38) . I wonder if there might be a correlation there.
The fact of the matter is that most US cities are simply not well suited for creating an efficient mass transit system. They tend to be spread out like a carpet, extending in all directions, which makes it difficult to provide adequate coverage, which means there are less resources and attention devoted to it's development. Cities where the habitation is concentrated into "strands" is a lot easier and cheaper to figure out a good mass transit scheme for.
It's America we put a man on the goddamn moon and were able to land multiple probes on Mars. I think we can come up with a way to create a good mass transit system if we put our minds to it.
It won't be cheap probably won't be a huge money maker but a good transit system is the greatest thing a city can have going for it.
figmentPez
Staff member
I find it highly annoying that people are talking about this like it's something that has never happened before. Uh, yeah, 17 times since 1977. It has happened before, don't act like this is some new tactic, or liken it to terrorism.
BUT TEH EVIL REPUBLICANS!
In all seriousness it's amazing what is being closed and what is staying up and running. It's also telling on how the executive branch wants this to be perceived.
But it has not been used in nearly 20 years because it ended a very popular GOP movement.
I don't understand what you're talking about. Can you explain what you mean? I assumed it hadn't been used in 20+ years because the federal government was, for some time, running a surplus (or at least not as huge a deficit).
GasBandit
Staff member
Not really. That's a (democrat aligned) media myth. Republicans lost 9 house seats, but gained 2 senate seats in the next election.
The Contract with America was pretty much done at that point. Newt lost a lot of influence and was shown the door not too long afterwards.
Fun things I read today:
Boner is trying to turn it around and say Obama is the cause of the shutdown by not folding, disregarding that the majority of Congress is not against the president on this.
NASA's next Mars mission has a brief window to launch, but won't be able to unless the government gets up and running. It'll have to wait until 2016 to try if it misses the window, so millions of dollars and research will have been wasted.
One Senator has put forward a bill that says Congress doesn't get paid during a shutdown. Yeah, I see a lot of Congress members voting for that
.
The DC zoo is under federal budget, so even while being furloughed I can't fucking go to the zoo! BLARGH!*
*context: I've been wanted to spend a day at the zoo by myself, but haven't been able to get a weekday off. Now when I finally have time off, albeit forced, I can't go.
Boner is trying to turn it around and say Obama is the cause of the shutdown by not folding, disregarding that the majority of Congress is not against the president on this.
NASA's next Mars mission has a brief window to launch, but won't be able to unless the government gets up and running. It'll have to wait until 2016 to try if it misses the window, so millions of dollars and research will have been wasted.
One Senator has put forward a bill that says Congress doesn't get paid during a shutdown. Yeah, I see a lot of Congress members voting for that
.The DC zoo is under federal budget, so even while being furloughed I can't fucking go to the zoo! BLARGH!*
*context: I've been wanted to spend a day at the zoo by myself, but haven't been able to get a weekday off. Now when I finally have time off, albeit forced, I can't go.
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What do you mean? There are 287 republicans in the house and senate, and only 246 democrats in the house and senate.
It would take 21 republicans to cross over on this issue to make your statement true - this might be the case, but it would surprise me. Some have crossed over, but that many?
I thought they had; I must've misread the article. Never mind.
My favorite part of the GoP talking heads on this whole thing has been this:
-We don't know why the Democrats won't listen to the American people! The majority of Americans don't want Obamacare!-
3 seconds later
-Polls show that 43% of Americans are for Obama Care, 49% are against it-
The double talk coming out of the GoP camp is just daily entertainment.
-We don't know why the Democrats won't listen to the American people! The majority of Americans don't want Obamacare!-
3 seconds later
-Polls show that 43% of Americans are for Obama Care, 49% are against it-
The double talk coming out of the GoP camp is just daily entertainment.
This was in my email this morning from NIH regarding the shutdown (spoilered for length):
tl;dr
No grant for you! Next!
Dear Principal Investigator, Reviewer, or Signing Official:
The Government Fiscal Year (FY) 2013 ended on September 30, 2013 at midnight EST and an Appropriation Act for FY2014 has not been passed leading to a lapse in Federal funding. We are providing the following information to answer questions you may have on the impact this lapse in appropriation will have on your grant/cooperative agreement or the availability of NIH’s systems and services.
RESUMING OPERATIONS
You are encouraged to stay tuned to the national media to determine when the Federal Government will resume operations. Depending on the length of the funding lapse, once NIH non-excepted staff are authorized to resume operations it will take time for full operations to be resumed. Depending on the length of the funding lapse, the eRA system may require at least one business day after operations resume. We ask for patience when trying to contact NIH staff once operations resume since there will be a backlog of information to process.
CONTACT WITH NIH STAFF
E-mail, Phone, Fax, and Postal Mail Contacts: For the duration of the funding lapse, NIH extramural employees will be prohibited from working (remotely or in the office). Consequently, there will be no access to voice mail, e-mail, fax, or postal mail during this period. Mail requiring someone to sign/accept may not be received. All other postal mail, fax, and voice mail communications will not be acted upon until after operations resume. It is recommended that you delay sending such communications until after operations resume.
Help Desk Support: For the duration of the funding lapse, all help desks, central e-mail boxes, and web ticketing systems for questions related to NIH grants policy and electronic grants systems will not be available, including the eRA Helpdesk and Grants Information Services.
In the event of an emergency involving human safety, please contact Dr. Sally Rockey at rockeysa@od.nih.gov.
SUBMISSION OF GRANT APPLICATIONS
For the duration of the funding lapse, applicants are strongly encouraged not to submit paper or electronic grant applications to NIH during the period of the lapse. Adjustments to application submission dates that occur during the funding lapse will be announced once operations resume. For any applications submitted immediately prior to or during the funding lapse, here is what will happen.
a. For electronic submissions through Grants.gov: Grants.gov will be open and can accept electronic applications. However, applications will not be processed by NIH until the eRA Systems are back on-line. NIH will ensure that all applications submitted within the two business days before or during the funding lapse will receive the full viewing window once the systems are back on-line.
b. For electronic submission of multi-project applications through NIH’s ASSIST system: The ASISST system will not be available until NIH systems are back on-line.
c. Paper Submissions: Staff will not be available to receive paper applications during a funding lapse.
The safest course is to wait to submit any application to NIH until after operations resume and a Notice in the NIH Guide concerning adjusted submission dates is posted.
PEER REVIEW AND COUNCIL MEETINGS
Initial Peer Review Meetings: For the duration of the funding lapse, the NIH will not be able to conduct initial peer review meetings – whether in-person or through teleconferences or other electronic media. Also during this time, the NIH staff will not be able to send or receive email messages, or update website information, and NIH computer systems that support review functions will not be operational. When operations resume, those meetings will be re-scheduled and the pending applications will be processed and reviewed as soon as possible.
Also, the results, including final impact scores and summary statements, of some peer review meetings that took place prior to the orderly shutdown of operations may not be available until operations resume. Therefore, applicants with applications going through the peer review process should stay tuned to the national news to determine when operations of the government resume, and then check the NIH website for information on any review meetings that may have been extended or re-scheduled. The results of meetings held prior to a potential funding lapse will be released as soon as possible after resumption of operations.
Individuals who had agreed to serve on NIH review panels (”study sections”) that were scheduled to meet during the funding lapse will not be able to access the Internet Assisted Review (IAR) site or other NIH web-based systems during that time. Reviewers who were scheduled to travel for a review meeting on a day when operations are down will not be able to board a plane or train, and will be sent instructions on how to handle their reservations. Reviewers who are attending an NIH review panel on the day of orderly shutdown will be able to change their travel plans and return home. Therefore, peer reviewers should stay tuned to the national news to determine when operations of the NIH will resume, and then check the NIH website for information on meetings that have been re-scheduled. As soon as possible after operations resume, the NIH Scientific Review Officer in charge of the review meeting will contact those reviewers with more detailed information.
Advisory Council Review: The NIH will not be able to conduct Advisory Council review meetings – whether in-person or through teleconferences or other electronic media - during the funding lapse. Also during this time, the NIH staff will not be able to send or receive email messages, or update website information, and NIH computer systems that support review functions will not be operational. Therefore, no applications will be processed for Council review or be taken to Council meetings during that time. When operations resume, those pending applications will be processed, and meetings will be re-scheduled as soon as possible.
Applicants with applications pending Council review during that time should check the NIH website for information after operations resume. Advisory Council members should stay tuned to the national news to determine when operations of the government will resume, and then check the NIH website for information on Council meetings that have been re-scheduled. As soon as possible after operations resume, the NIH Executive Secretary in charge of the Council meeting will contact those Council members with more detailed information.
AWARDED GRANTS
Currently Active Grant Awards: For the duration of the funding lapse, all work and activities performed under currently active NIH grant awards may continue. However, see below for limits on performing many of the reporting requirements associated with NIH grant funding.
Progress Reports:
a. Electronically Submitted Progress Reports: For any progress reports due during the funding lapse, the eRA Commons will not be accessible. Users will need to wait until the eRA Commons is back on-line before these progress reports can be submitted.
b. Paper Submitted Progress Reports: No NIH staff will be available to receive paper progress reports. Therefore, institutions are encouraged to delay mailing all paper progress reports due during the funding lapse until after operations resume.
Notice of Awards (NoAs): No NIH grant awards will be processed for the duration of the funding lapse. For any awards processed before the funding lapse that have an issue date during the funding lapse, the awards will not be sent to the grantee on the issue date. Once operations resume, all pending NoAs will be sent. This will not affect the start date nor the issue date of these awards; it just affects the date the award document is actually sent to the grantee and available for access in the eRA Commons. In the absence of actually receiving the NoA, institutions may use pre-award costs authority at their own risk.
No-cost Extension Notifications: The eRA Commons will not be accessible during the funding lapse. Further, no-cost extension notification cannot be submitted via the Commons once the expiration date of the grant has passed. For any grants due to expire during the funding lapse that plans to be given a no-cost extension, a paper notification to the IC will be required after operations resume.
General Access to eRA Commons and Other OER-Supported Systems: The eRA Commons will not be accessible during the funding lapse. Therefore, no user will be able to access the Commons for viewing electronically submitted applications, accessing Internet Assisted Review, or processing such actions as Commons Registration, FSRs/FFRs, xTrain documents, Closeout documents, and/or FCOI notifications etc. Further there will be no ability to access Commons for query or other purposes. There also will be no access to the Interagency Edison or Electronic Council Books systems.
Prior Approval Requests and Other Communications: NIH extramural employees will have no access to voice mail, e-mail, fax, or postal mail during the funding lapse. All prior approval requests and other communications will not be received until operations resume. It is recommended that you delay sending such communications until after operations resume.
Access to HHS Payment Management System (PMS): For the duration of the funding lapse, the HHS PMS will be open; however, no Federal staff will be available to assist or process any requests. Therefore, drawdowns (payments) on accounts can be processed as long as no Federal staff action is required to finalize the payment. For most NIH grantees, this means drawdowns should be possible. However, if a particular grant is on a reimbursement basis for withdrawing funds or otherwise restricted, then these requests cannot not be processed until after Federal Government operations resume.
ANIMAL WELFARE
The Office of Laboratory Animal Welfare (OLAW) business processes are funded by annual appropriations and are not designated as excepted activities under the Antideficiency Act. No activities associated with the OLAW mission will continue for the duration of the funding lapse.
For the duration of the funding lapse, PHS-funded institutions are encouraged to delay sending all Assurance documents, preliminary or final reports of noncompliance or IACUC suspensions as required under the Public Health Service Policy on Humane Care and Use of Laboratory Animals IV.F.3, or other correspondence due to OLAW during the funding hiatus period until after operations resume. OLAW will extend deadlines for all reporting activities as necessary to compensate for the period of the lapse in funding and the unavailability of the website and OLAW operational support.
Institutions are reminded that their obligation under their Animal Welfare Assurance to ensure ongoing local support and oversight, and to address and correct all situations that affect animal welfare and compliance with the PHS Policy continues during this period.
Sally Rockey, Ph.D.
NIH Deputy Director for Extramural Research
The Government Fiscal Year (FY) 2013 ended on September 30, 2013 at midnight EST and an Appropriation Act for FY2014 has not been passed leading to a lapse in Federal funding. We are providing the following information to answer questions you may have on the impact this lapse in appropriation will have on your grant/cooperative agreement or the availability of NIH’s systems and services.
RESUMING OPERATIONS
You are encouraged to stay tuned to the national media to determine when the Federal Government will resume operations. Depending on the length of the funding lapse, once NIH non-excepted staff are authorized to resume operations it will take time for full operations to be resumed. Depending on the length of the funding lapse, the eRA system may require at least one business day after operations resume. We ask for patience when trying to contact NIH staff once operations resume since there will be a backlog of information to process.
CONTACT WITH NIH STAFF
E-mail, Phone, Fax, and Postal Mail Contacts: For the duration of the funding lapse, NIH extramural employees will be prohibited from working (remotely or in the office). Consequently, there will be no access to voice mail, e-mail, fax, or postal mail during this period. Mail requiring someone to sign/accept may not be received. All other postal mail, fax, and voice mail communications will not be acted upon until after operations resume. It is recommended that you delay sending such communications until after operations resume.
Help Desk Support: For the duration of the funding lapse, all help desks, central e-mail boxes, and web ticketing systems for questions related to NIH grants policy and electronic grants systems will not be available, including the eRA Helpdesk and Grants Information Services.
In the event of an emergency involving human safety, please contact Dr. Sally Rockey at rockeysa@od.nih.gov.
SUBMISSION OF GRANT APPLICATIONS
For the duration of the funding lapse, applicants are strongly encouraged not to submit paper or electronic grant applications to NIH during the period of the lapse. Adjustments to application submission dates that occur during the funding lapse will be announced once operations resume. For any applications submitted immediately prior to or during the funding lapse, here is what will happen.
a. For electronic submissions through Grants.gov: Grants.gov will be open and can accept electronic applications. However, applications will not be processed by NIH until the eRA Systems are back on-line. NIH will ensure that all applications submitted within the two business days before or during the funding lapse will receive the full viewing window once the systems are back on-line.
b. For electronic submission of multi-project applications through NIH’s ASSIST system: The ASISST system will not be available until NIH systems are back on-line.
c. Paper Submissions: Staff will not be available to receive paper applications during a funding lapse.
The safest course is to wait to submit any application to NIH until after operations resume and a Notice in the NIH Guide concerning adjusted submission dates is posted.
PEER REVIEW AND COUNCIL MEETINGS
Initial Peer Review Meetings: For the duration of the funding lapse, the NIH will not be able to conduct initial peer review meetings – whether in-person or through teleconferences or other electronic media. Also during this time, the NIH staff will not be able to send or receive email messages, or update website information, and NIH computer systems that support review functions will not be operational. When operations resume, those meetings will be re-scheduled and the pending applications will be processed and reviewed as soon as possible.
Also, the results, including final impact scores and summary statements, of some peer review meetings that took place prior to the orderly shutdown of operations may not be available until operations resume. Therefore, applicants with applications going through the peer review process should stay tuned to the national news to determine when operations of the government resume, and then check the NIH website for information on any review meetings that may have been extended or re-scheduled. The results of meetings held prior to a potential funding lapse will be released as soon as possible after resumption of operations.
Individuals who had agreed to serve on NIH review panels (”study sections”) that were scheduled to meet during the funding lapse will not be able to access the Internet Assisted Review (IAR) site or other NIH web-based systems during that time. Reviewers who were scheduled to travel for a review meeting on a day when operations are down will not be able to board a plane or train, and will be sent instructions on how to handle their reservations. Reviewers who are attending an NIH review panel on the day of orderly shutdown will be able to change their travel plans and return home. Therefore, peer reviewers should stay tuned to the national news to determine when operations of the NIH will resume, and then check the NIH website for information on meetings that have been re-scheduled. As soon as possible after operations resume, the NIH Scientific Review Officer in charge of the review meeting will contact those reviewers with more detailed information.
Advisory Council Review: The NIH will not be able to conduct Advisory Council review meetings – whether in-person or through teleconferences or other electronic media - during the funding lapse. Also during this time, the NIH staff will not be able to send or receive email messages, or update website information, and NIH computer systems that support review functions will not be operational. Therefore, no applications will be processed for Council review or be taken to Council meetings during that time. When operations resume, those pending applications will be processed, and meetings will be re-scheduled as soon as possible.
Applicants with applications pending Council review during that time should check the NIH website for information after operations resume. Advisory Council members should stay tuned to the national news to determine when operations of the government will resume, and then check the NIH website for information on Council meetings that have been re-scheduled. As soon as possible after operations resume, the NIH Executive Secretary in charge of the Council meeting will contact those Council members with more detailed information.
AWARDED GRANTS
Currently Active Grant Awards: For the duration of the funding lapse, all work and activities performed under currently active NIH grant awards may continue. However, see below for limits on performing many of the reporting requirements associated with NIH grant funding.
Progress Reports:
a. Electronically Submitted Progress Reports: For any progress reports due during the funding lapse, the eRA Commons will not be accessible. Users will need to wait until the eRA Commons is back on-line before these progress reports can be submitted.
b. Paper Submitted Progress Reports: No NIH staff will be available to receive paper progress reports. Therefore, institutions are encouraged to delay mailing all paper progress reports due during the funding lapse until after operations resume.
Notice of Awards (NoAs): No NIH grant awards will be processed for the duration of the funding lapse. For any awards processed before the funding lapse that have an issue date during the funding lapse, the awards will not be sent to the grantee on the issue date. Once operations resume, all pending NoAs will be sent. This will not affect the start date nor the issue date of these awards; it just affects the date the award document is actually sent to the grantee and available for access in the eRA Commons. In the absence of actually receiving the NoA, institutions may use pre-award costs authority at their own risk.
No-cost Extension Notifications: The eRA Commons will not be accessible during the funding lapse. Further, no-cost extension notification cannot be submitted via the Commons once the expiration date of the grant has passed. For any grants due to expire during the funding lapse that plans to be given a no-cost extension, a paper notification to the IC will be required after operations resume.
General Access to eRA Commons and Other OER-Supported Systems: The eRA Commons will not be accessible during the funding lapse. Therefore, no user will be able to access the Commons for viewing electronically submitted applications, accessing Internet Assisted Review, or processing such actions as Commons Registration, FSRs/FFRs, xTrain documents, Closeout documents, and/or FCOI notifications etc. Further there will be no ability to access Commons for query or other purposes. There also will be no access to the Interagency Edison or Electronic Council Books systems.
Prior Approval Requests and Other Communications: NIH extramural employees will have no access to voice mail, e-mail, fax, or postal mail during the funding lapse. All prior approval requests and other communications will not be received until operations resume. It is recommended that you delay sending such communications until after operations resume.
Access to HHS Payment Management System (PMS): For the duration of the funding lapse, the HHS PMS will be open; however, no Federal staff will be available to assist or process any requests. Therefore, drawdowns (payments) on accounts can be processed as long as no Federal staff action is required to finalize the payment. For most NIH grantees, this means drawdowns should be possible. However, if a particular grant is on a reimbursement basis for withdrawing funds or otherwise restricted, then these requests cannot not be processed until after Federal Government operations resume.
ANIMAL WELFARE
The Office of Laboratory Animal Welfare (OLAW) business processes are funded by annual appropriations and are not designated as excepted activities under the Antideficiency Act. No activities associated with the OLAW mission will continue for the duration of the funding lapse.
For the duration of the funding lapse, PHS-funded institutions are encouraged to delay sending all Assurance documents, preliminary or final reports of noncompliance or IACUC suspensions as required under the Public Health Service Policy on Humane Care and Use of Laboratory Animals IV.F.3, or other correspondence due to OLAW during the funding hiatus period until after operations resume. OLAW will extend deadlines for all reporting activities as necessary to compensate for the period of the lapse in funding and the unavailability of the website and OLAW operational support.
Institutions are reminded that their obligation under their Animal Welfare Assurance to ensure ongoing local support and oversight, and to address and correct all situations that affect animal welfare and compliance with the PHS Policy continues during this period.
Sally Rockey, Ph.D.
NIH Deputy Director for Extramural Research
tl;dr
No grant for you! Next!
43% that want it (ie, are for it) implies that 57% don't want it. That doesn't mean they want it to go away, it just means they aren't supporting, interested in, or perhaps even care about it.
So the headline may be splitting hairs, but it isn't any less correct than some of the lines the democrats are using. "47 million uninsured" for instance.
So the headline may be splitting hairs, but it isn't any less correct than some of the lines the democrats are using. "47 million uninsured" for instance.
GasBandit
Staff member
The polls I've seen show 57-60% oppose it.
Between the House and the Senate there are 252 Democrats, 278 Republicans, and 2 Independents. Assuming all the Democrats and the Independents are in agreement, unless at least 12 Republicans are siding with the Democrats (which may be the case), the majority of congress is against him. Unless you mean majority in a per branch of congress sense, but in that case why would Bohner think the majority is against Obama when they're obviously spilt?
EDIT: And I see @stienman beat me to the punch, never mind.
Which includes all the people who also oppose it because they want single payer. The very CNN poll you mentioned earlier makes this clear. The portrayal of that 60% as some kind of unified voting bloc behind the House Republicans is a complete fabrication.
GasBandit
Staff member
And George W. Bush's approval rating also counted against him the people who thought he wasn't conservative enough. Doesn't mean they still didn't like him.
And I still can't go to the DC zoo.
