USA Federal government: CLOSED
- Thread starter strawman
- Start date
I think Gas had a good point that the Republicans won't try to grandstand this again.
That said, I have zero confidence that Congress could work out a real budget no matter how little or how much time was given under the current political climate, so I expect CR. No chance this would happen next October though--it'll be an election year.
I have no confidence in that. To make that assumption you'd have to assume those representatives who kept up with the charade have learned a lesson from this. I don't think they have, and if it was up to the leadership it wouldn't have gone on this long. There is NO power in John Boehner.
Ooo, I bet anyone (especially anyone who might've had definite prior knowledge of tonight's events) who made any large purchases in the stock market recently is reaping some sweet, sweet rewards about now.
--Patrick
But hey, at least Mitch McConnell got $3 Billion for a dam back home in Kentucky out of the deal he helped put together. So . . . yay?
GasBandit
Staff member
I'm sorry you took my personal post talking about what I'd get if I chose a certain path to insult you or others having difficulty in the job market. Of course I was focused on explaining what I thought universal healthcare meant, but I can see why you'd want to change topics since you really have no way to claim that the US has no form of universal healthcare coverage.
But since you've decided my statement cuts to the heart, how about you travel to a county with your idealized universal healthcare which undoubtedly has higher unemployment. Harder to get a job, still get free healthcare, but it'll be more the markets fault you can't get a job than your own, so you should be able to feel the burn of my unintentional but apparently hideous insult more keenly.
While I'm at it, why don't I give you a nice paper cut and pour lemon juice in it?
Since you've decided to be a huge dick, I'm gonna go ahead and call you on your bullshit.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_unemployment_rate
Notice how many countries with universal healthcare have lower or equivalent unemployment than we do.
So the EU as a whole has 11.1 percent unemployment rate, which is comparable to the US as a whole. I suppose we could start comparing individual states to individual countries, or we could compare particular countries against the US as a whole, for instance the UK, France, and Finland all have higher, or slightly higher unemployment.
But yes, there are many examples of countries with universal healthcare which have lower unemployment than the US. And there are many states with lower unemployment than many countries. I'd be annoyed to compare an Asian country with the US due to the different work ethic, but we have states beating Japan at it's 3.8 rate.
So my original point still stands. We now have universal healthcare, unlike what some people here seem to think.
No, I'm not going to argue with someone who has their own definition of "universal healthcare". Pretending that it's universal when it doesn't include everyone is comical, and not worth arguing.
Better go update wikipedia, Krisken. ACA does indeed involve gov't action aimed at extending access to healthcare as widely as possible and sets minimum standards.
I know a lot of liberals and socialists don't believe ACA counts as universal healthcare, but I believe we're just talking about semantics at this point.
Perhaps you'd instead like to check out the World Health Organization's definition:
http://www.who.int/universal_health_coverage/en/index.html
The ACA provides those things. There are groups within the US that are currently falling between the cracks. That's due to the effort of those who oppose the system, found existing small cracks, and widened them - such as the gap between medicare and ACA that the supreme court blew out as illegal. These are small minor cracks that will be patched up over time, but if this is what you're claiming means we don't have universal healthcare, then I suppose you're right.
But the law provides a health system, with financing, access to essential medicine and technology, and a sufficient capacity of workers, ensuring no financial hardship for necessary medical services to 99% of the population.
In what ways does your definition differ, or in what ways does the ACA (assuming it's fully implemented) fail?
Why don't you search for yourself? You might find 31 million people who aren't covered under the Affordable Care Act. Or maybe even children. But you don't have to take my word for it. It's not like undocumented immigrants are people. As Jesus said "Fuck the poor, the weak, the downtrodden, they're scum".
It doesn't cover everyone who needs it. It doesn't make it affordable for everyone. Try looking up 'everyone'. I'm done arguing what it means.
It doesn't cover everyone who needs it. It doesn't make it affordable for everyone. Try looking up 'everyone'. I'm done arguing what it means.
Yeah, that's exactly what I'm doing. Dink.
Call me cold-hearted, but it don't think the US taxpayer should be responsible for undocumented immigrants. Living abroad, I can't imagine Getting free services while living in a foreign country. I'd fully expect to be rightfully kicked out on my ass. ACA benefits should go to residents and documented immigrants. No one needs to tell me how unfair or what a pain in the ass legal immigration is. I just hired a lawyer to wade through the bullshit that is the K-1 fiancé visa for June. I'd rather have a streamlined immigration process than continue to give freebies out to illegals which I feel only encourages more illegal immigration.
Well, republicans lost the battle, but they prevented Obama from bringing up the immigration bill it sounds like he wanted to deal with before next year, they forced everyone to focus on the issues they wanted to talk about, they set the timer for the next fight, and they normalized the idea of shutting the government down a little more. People aren't really talking about sequestration anymore like it's an abnormal and terrible way to deal with budgeting, but it still is abnormal and terrible. The public don't seem to notice or care, though. The next time they threaten to shut down the government, they may be taken a little more seriously before they actually do it, though I doubt negotiations will happen.
If the democrats don't bend between now and January, though, they're going to be forced to accept the next round of timed sequestration cuts, and another possible shutdown. That shutdown won't be shortened by the debt ceiling, though, so knowing what the republicans are willing to do hopefully they'll make some concessions between now and then.
The republicans will succeed in keeping their fiscal issues front and center for some time.
Chances are good the ACA will have numerous problems, big and little, as it's rolled out and people actually try charging their bills to it, insurance companies try getting reimbursed for subsidies, etc.
Even though the republicans fell on polls and have been demonized by the public, the democrats have numerous problems leading into the 2014 elections that won't be easy for them to submerge.
If the democrats don't bend between now and January, though, they're going to be forced to accept the next round of timed sequestration cuts, and another possible shutdown. That shutdown won't be shortened by the debt ceiling, though, so knowing what the republicans are willing to do hopefully they'll make some concessions between now and then.
The republicans will succeed in keeping their fiscal issues front and center for some time.
Chances are good the ACA will have numerous problems, big and little, as it's rolled out and people actually try charging their bills to it, insurance companies try getting reimbursed for subsidies, etc.
Even though the republicans fell on polls and have been demonized by the public, the democrats have numerous problems leading into the 2014 elections that won't be easy for them to submerge.
You're cold-hearted.
The republicans are going to be hurting if they keep pushing back on any type of immigration reform. They're weak spot is minorities, and they have done nothing except make it worse. Delaying immigration reform won't help them, and will most likely hurt more than anything.
One of the most telling polls shows moderate ruplicans views on the tea party now.
One of the most telling polls shows moderate ruplicans views on the tea party now.
So go ahead and keep hammering away on those tea party ideals in the most obstructionist way possible republicans. It can only end well for your party. I'm guessing the primaries for the next presidential election will be brutal if the tea party still has significant sway.
GasBandit
Staff member
Non-tea party republicans are part of the problem. A more accurate term would be diet democrat.[DOUBLEPOST=1382023540,1382023434][/DOUBLEPOST]
Nobody listens to the equivalent on the liberal side, according to the ratings. But to answer your question, they have such listenership because until fox news came along, the mainstream media was all liberalism all the time, with a hefty side of America-bashing. Right now half the country calls themselves conservatives, and these talk hosts trumpet ideas that they largely agree with, and it feels like fighting back to them.
One of the reasons they want to keep people focused on budget and fiscal policy, which is more important than immigration reform anyway.
Budget and fiscal policy should not take up 100% of a lawmakers time. There is no reason it can't be worked on. The reason they don't want to is because, once again, it's a "Democrat" issue. It would be a sign of the dems winning.[DOUBLEPOST=1382023879,1382023809][/DOUBLEPOST]
That's fine. Like I said, they can keep it up. It will only push more people away from their party.
I'm willing to bet there are millions of Americans with friends and relatives trying to immigrate that would disagree. Immigration reform is something you can put a face on... but budget and fiscal policy? Not so easy.
GasBandit
Staff member
I'd make the argument that the "pushed" were never really there in the first place. That mythical 20%. Every time the Republicans try to be the center, they lose. When they push right, they start winning.
But if you turn out to be right, there's also a silver lining to the breakup of the republican party. Once they roll that whale's carcass out, it can make room for something new.
They don't have to go to the center. They just need to be a bit less end of the world and try to be a little more open to compromise. It's the obstructionist behavior that's souring people to the Tea Party.
Immigration reform, as currently discussed by the democrats anyway, won't help people outside the country. It's really only aimed at people already here illegally.
But I suppose we need an immigration thread to hash that out. Regardless, I don't recall anyone talking about immigration reform over the last 60 days, so whether it was intentional or not, it's on the back burner for now.
GasBandit
Staff member
The whole point of the tea party is these people believe the end IS nigh, something's got to give, and a line must be drawn right here, right now if the nation is to survive. There's no compromising that without the movement losing its very identity. The knife must stop cutting. Any compromise is just pushing the knife in slower instead of faster. And if it takes obstructionism to do it, then so be it - that is what their constitutents sent them to do, after all - to stop with gridlock if necessary, to reverse if possible, but definitely not to do the same stabbing just slower.