Dave
Staff member
I've not read book 5 so I can't compare with the Bran and Dany chapters, but those parts of book 4 were a slog. We get a bunch of awful characters we don't care about with a POV character we don't care about--fine, that happens. You'd expect to grow to care as that character has their journey through the book. Except GRRM couldn't just pick a fucking POV character for his Iron Islands leadership subplot. The narrative jumps around and by the end of it, it doesn't feel like anything was accomplished. Just a bunch of pirates seeing who can shout loudest.
The Brienne chapters sucked too, but at least I give a shit about her.
Book 4 was probably half a boring mess, maybe more. There just seemed to be too much "Hey, here's what's going on in another part of Westoros. It's of little consequence, but I thought you'd like to know. 1200 page epic!"
The Brienne chapters sucked too, but at least I give a shit about her.
Book 4 was probably half a boring mess, maybe more. There just seemed to be too much "Hey, here's what's going on in another part of Westoros. It's of little consequence, but I thought you'd like to know. 1200 page epic!"
The whole series is sort of about knights fighting amongst one another, tearing each other to pieces, all the while oblivious to the bigger threat looming (the Walkers in the North).
In books 5 & 6, slowly, we're seeing some of them wake up and get a clue - even though it's still too little, too late, and still being seen through their own eyes and in far too limited a scope.
The Iron Islanders are, in a way, a retelling of a similar story, but one step further down. They're so cosnumed by their own, small and insignificant stories, that they fail to see anything beyond their own borders. We're not talking about the Vikings here - we're talking about, what, ten thousand angry men (and women) who feel they "deserve" to rule because of their ancestors. They are even more self-absorbed, petty and obnoxious than the Lannisters.
They take actions that have far-reaching consequences (sacking of Winterfell, spereading the belief that Bran etc are dead,...) but for all the wrong reasons - ill-considered, ill-informed, practically the sea version of rednecks messing about and annoying the US army in the middle of WWII (I don't mean to imply rednecks were ambushing the US army in 1945 - but if they suddenly did, it would be reckless, annoying and dumb).
That said, I could *easily* see them as the fleet that'll eventually bring Daeny back home. Even though the numbers, as given in the books, would say this is impossible - GRRM has had to fudge numbers quite a few times to make things work.
In books 5 & 6, slowly, we're seeing some of them wake up and get a clue - even though it's still too little, too late, and still being seen through their own eyes and in far too limited a scope.
The Iron Islanders are, in a way, a retelling of a similar story, but one step further down. They're so cosnumed by their own, small and insignificant stories, that they fail to see anything beyond their own borders. We're not talking about the Vikings here - we're talking about, what, ten thousand angry men (and women) who feel they "deserve" to rule because of their ancestors. They are even more self-absorbed, petty and obnoxious than the Lannisters.
They take actions that have far-reaching consequences (sacking of Winterfell, spereading the belief that Bran etc are dead,...) but for all the wrong reasons - ill-considered, ill-informed, practically the sea version of rednecks messing about and annoying the US army in the middle of WWII (I don't mean to imply rednecks were ambushing the US army in 1945 - but if they suddenly did, it would be reckless, annoying and dumb).
That said, I could *easily* see them as the fleet that'll eventually bring Daeny back home. Even though the numbers, as given in the books, would say this is impossible - GRRM has had to fudge numbers quite a few times to make things work.
North_Ranger
Staff member
BRILLIANT!
You guys are reading it wrong, that's just set up to show you Crow's Eye is bad and you should hate him. The whole problem with the last two books is that they're just background for the originally planned story that skipped 5 years, and he's unsure on how much info needs to be shown and in what way to show it so we don't miss anything...
So he shows us everything!
And I bet he made that same argument to his editors. With the show being a huge hit, no ones going to question him anymore.
I hope Winds of Winter doesn't feel bloated. I still haven't read Dance, but since it's really the other half of Feast for Crows, I'm not exactly in a hurry.
To be fair, it's mostly the better half. Even if it's still bloated.
But there will be many football updates written.
Well, he does have his priorities straight.
So let me get this straight. A small island nation of a few thousand people is going to sail across the world to steal away the most precious commodities in the world that are surrounded by a selfless unfeeling totally dedicated army of elite soldiers that number more than the island nations entire population and I am supposed to suspend my belief for a few more thousand pages?
I am quickly being ordered to suspend disbelief because "it's magic" and ignore logic an reasoning.
and the first book had such promise. This may be my new Highlander.
I am quickly being ordered to suspend disbelief because "it's magic" and ignore logic an reasoning.
and the first book had such promise. This may be my new Highlander.Not familiar with the vikings, are we? Small raiding forces can be quite effective. Not to mention how a island nation once owned the biggest empire known to man.
And and dont remember, but did they even know about the unsullied? Which, as i recall numbered around 9000 or so, not more, which is no way more then the pop. of the iron islands.
And and dont remember, but did they even know about the unsullied? Which, as i recall numbered around 9000 or so, not more, which is no way more then the pop. of the iron islands.
Welcome to "Why are the Iron Islands the msot hated chapters".So let me get this straight. A small island nation of a few thousand people is going to sail across the world to steal away the most precious commodities in the world that are surrounded by a selfless unfeeling totally dedicated army of elite soldiers that number more than the island nations entire population and I am supposed to suspend my belief for a few more thousand pages?
I am quickly being ordered to suspend disbelief because "it's magic" and ignore logic an reasoning.
3000 BC England had 10 x the population of the Iron Islands. England of the Golden Age had almost 500 times as much people. And I have yet to see an explanation how they became a military power so quickly after being routed and turned into serfs by Robert Baratheon.
Wait, does he actually ever give a number for their population, i dont remember that...
And they're not really a military power (Balon was an idiot for thinking he could have ever held what he took in the north, even Asha mentions that), but it makes sense that they would rebuild their fleets pretty fast considering that how much they depend on sailing economically (also, they probably capture ships from Essos and use them, they are pirates after all).
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Got book 5 for Christmas from my awesome wife, so now I can finally see what Jay enjoyed so much about Bran chapters.