[Movies] Guardians of the Galaxy

A preview for tonight's trailer
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I don't think the conflict is that it's a live action movie, because Jim Carrey movies have contained elements every bit as ridiculous as a talking Raccoon, and many of those were box office successes. I think the problem is that Guardiands of the Galaxy is action, Sci-Fi and trying for a serious tone. The same problem would arise if you had any character who doesn't look like they're tough enough. Can you imagine pitching "The Expendables" if Peter Dinklage were going to be one of the headline actors?
I don't watch the show, but isn't he kind of badass in Game of Thrones? With the right context, Peter Dinklage could be badass.

And who ever said Guardians of the Galaxy had a 100% serious tone? It's got a raccoon and a tree as main characters for cripes sakes.
 

GasBandit

Staff member
I don't think the conflict is that it's a live action movie, because Jim Carrey movies have contained elements every bit as ridiculous as a talking Raccoon, and many of those were box office successes. I think the problem is that Guardiands of the Galaxy is action, Sci-Fi and trying for a serious tone. The same problem would arise if you had any character who doesn't look like they're tough enough. Can you imagine pitching "The Expendables" if Peter Dinklage were going to be one of the headline actors?
Actually I think I'd pay to see that.

But I think, the comparison here should be, it'd be more along the lines of The Expendables with Peter Dinklage in an Ewok costume in the lead.

In a sci-fi action movie, even one based on a comic, for most moviegoers a talking anthropomorphic raccoon, especially one named "Rocket Raccoon," is going to just be beyond the pale for them and it will cause them to write off the movie as soon as they hear about it. Because they'll be thinking "Avengers Avengers Avengers" and then hear "talking raccoon" and then they'll grind "avengers" gears against "Over the Hedge Over the Hedge Over the Hedge."

I still say this movie is probably going to flop.
 
And who ever said Guardians of the Galaxy had a 100% serious tone? It's got a raccoon and a tree as main characters for cripes sakes.
That, and remember that James Gunn is writing and directing this. Considering his previous work, I'd expect him to not be totally serious and engage in some fun with the crazy that's there.
 
I still say this movie is probably going to flop.
I don't know if it'll flop, but I'm worried it won't do gangbusters sales like some expect. I think it'll do well enough just for flying under the Marvel and Avengers banners. All they have to do is say, "From the studio that brought you The Avengers!" and that gets asses in seats.
 

figmentPez

Staff member
I don't watch the show, but isn't he kind of badass in Game of Thrones? With the right context, Peter Dinklage could be badass.

And who ever said Guardians of the Galaxy had a 100% serious tone? It's got a raccoon and a tree as main characters for cripes sakes.
Yes, I think Peter Dinklage would be pretty awesome in an Expendables movie, but put him alongside Stallone, Statham, Lundgren, etc. and you'd struggle to have him seen as anything but comic relief if it were the first movie and you're still selling the concept. Put him in the third, or fourth, movie, and you can use him to mix up expectations. Putting him in the first movie's trailers, however, would be a much more difficult sell.

I, personally, don't think that the movie should have a 100% serious tone, but movie audiences have a really strange relationship with SciFi, and the public doesn't react well to SciFi that mixes comedic elements into it's seriousness. Maybe it's too much association with B-movies, but it's hard to get audiences to see that comedic elements can work as well in SF as they do in buddy cop movies.
 
Yes, I think Peter Dinklage would be pretty awesome in an Expendables movie, but put him alongside Stallone, Statham, Lundgren, etc. and you'd struggle to have him seen as anything but comic relief if it were the first movie and you're still selling the concept. Put him in the third, or fourth, movie, and you can use him to mix up expectations. Putting him in the first movie's trailers, however, would be a much more difficult sell.

I, personally, don't think that the movie should have a 100% serious tone, but movie audiences have a really strange relationship with SciFi, and the public doesn't react well to SciFi that mixes comedic elements into it's seriousness. Maybe it's too much association with B-movies, but it's hard to get audiences to see that comedic elements can work as well in SF as they do in buddy cop movies.
Star Trek IV: The Voyage Home? Galaxy Quest? And of course Men In Black was pretty much a sci-fi buddy cop movie. I mean, we can debate how comedic vs serious they are, but they're not Spaceballs level pure parody.
 
Or how about The Fifth Element?

Hell, even Star Wars is pretty light-hearted. Sure, it has plenty of serious moments, but there are many comedic moments (usually from Han, Chewie, and the droids). I think that might be exactly what they're aiming at here: a fun, not too serious space romp. And I'm down for that.[DOUBLEPOST=1392743168,1392743125][/DOUBLEPOST]
Fuck yeah I can imagine that, it'd be awesome.
Peter Dinklage in The Expendables would certainly give me a reason to bother watching those crap movies. I've only seen the first one and couldn't be bothered with the others.
 

figmentPez

Staff member
Star Trek IV: The Voyage Home? Galaxy Quest? And of course Men In Black was pretty much a sci-fi buddy cop movie. I mean, we can debate how comedic vs serious they are, but they're not Spaceballs level pure parody.
Star Trek was an established franchise, and survived a very bland first film, it's definitely an exception. Galaxy Quest was billed as mainly a parody of SciFi. Men in Black is actually a good example, though I think it's more the exception than the rule. If I had more time it'd be interesting to try to figure out why it worked, and audiences still bought into it.

I'm trying to find an example of a good SciFi movie that has an outlandish character like Rocket Raccoon... and I can't. I mean, there are crazy characters in Men in Black, but they're not the heroes, they're comic relief, and not taken seriously. Will Smith may be slapstick, but otherwise he's an action hero; strong, confident and handsome. Star Wars is the closest thing I can think of right now, with Yoda, but those movies were a surprise success, and Yoda wasn't part of selling the first movie.

Assuming that Guardians of the Galaxy is actually a good film, are there any close comparisons to be made?
 
Assuming that Guardians of the Galaxy is actually a good film, are there any close comparisons to be made?
I mentioned Fifth Element above. That's probably closest to what we can expect, I think.

Something I just realized when I looked at the official team line-up picture: Rocket Raccoon is front and centre. I think that shows how much faith the studio has in him being the most popular character out of this. The strange thing is that aside from Dill (because you know, bias), I can't think of very many trigger happy anthropomorphic characters. ESPECIALLY in film. I mean yeah, Howard the Duck's anthropomorphic, but he's not this planet-saving badass.

Unlike Ewoks, Raccoon looks more badass than cute. In my opinion, anyway. And that's incredibly rare for what would normally be such a kid-friendly character.
 

GasBandit

Staff member
Unlike Ewoks, Raccoon looks more badass than cute. In my opinion, anyway. And that's incredibly rare for what would normally be such a kid-friendly character.
See, I look at it, and I just see yet another dreamworks face. Marketing always tries to put a "badass" slant on their characters. You know Rocket's a hardass, I know he's a hardass, but Joe Moviegoer who thinks the rest of us are (at least) kinda nerdy will see rocket and think this:

overthehedge.JPG


Look at him. Look at that raccoon we are to believe is a badass.
 
See, I look at it, and I just see yet another dreamworks face. Marketing always tries to put a "badass" slant on their characters. You know Rocket's a hardass, I know he's a hardass, but Joe Moviegoer who thinks the rest of us are (at least) kinda nerdy will see rocket and think this:

Look at him. Look at that raccoon we are to believe is a badass.
Except the two pictures aren't similar at all. One is on a poster for an animated movie with a bunch of other animal critters. And he's wielding a giant wagon full of food. BADASS!
 

GasBandit

Staff member
Except the two pictures aren't similar at all. One is on a poster for an animated movie with a bunch of other animal critters. And he's wielding a giant wagon full of food. BADASS!
To Joe Sixpack on the street, there is no difference. Talking racoon here, talking racoon there. Dreamworks face. Judgement call made in less than half a second. The moviegoing public is not in a place where they can see/hear about a talking raccoon with attitude in a movie and not put it in that category.
 

figmentPez

Staff member
I mentioned Fifth Element above. That's probably closest to what we can expect, I think.
Which is a fair comparison in a lot of aspects. It did well at the box office, and the villains were plenty cartoony. The hero, however, was straight up Bruce Willis. While The Fifth Element does show that you can manage to sell a comedic Sci Fi movie, that still leaves the problem that I think it's really true that convincing an audience that a Raccoon can be a hero would be a lot easier in a Disney movie, a straight up fantasy movie, or a Sci Fi film being marketed as a comedy, than it will be to convince audiences of that in a Sci Fi action hero movie.
 
The thing with GotG books is they're not all that serious most of the time either. Star Lord's kind of a smart-ass prick, Drax doesn't talk much, Groot is pompous, RR is like a haggard old war vet, and Gamora spends a lot of dialogue making fun of Star Lord. I think the only guys on the team that really even get along are RR and Groot.
 

GasBandit

Staff member
One has to remember, this movie will be viewed and judged without the context of the comic book. It's not a top tier title (even arguable if it's a B-list title), so for most movie consumers it's exponentially more obscure, to the point of pretty much might as well having never existed in the first place, as far as they're concerned.
 
One has to remember, this movie will be viewed and judged without the context of the comic book. It's not a top tier title (even arguable if it's a B-list title), so for most movie consumers it's exponentially more obscure, to the point of pretty much might as well having never existed in the first place, as far as they're concerned.
This.

Don't bother talking about how weird the comic is, or how light/dark the comic is. No one will care outside of comic nerds, and they represent just a faction of the larger audience. Most people will see this, think "WTF?!", and skip it. Whatever happens in the comic or larger Marvel universe won't matter to most people.
 
Is "Who Framed Roger Rabbit" a fair comparison? It made over $150 million in the US back in 1988, and with today's higher ticket prices and thousands of screens (is there 3D for this?), it's safe to say GotG could reach that in less than 3 weeks. Would Marvel Studios be happy with less than $200 million in the US? Replace detective story with sci-fi action, and the slapstick cartoon antics with modern snark and one-liners to pull in the people who loved that film; you've already got the comic and Marvel film fans.
 

GasBandit

Staff member
Is "Who Framed Roger Rabbit" a fair comparison? It made over $150 million in the US back in 1988, and with today's higher ticket prices and thousands of screens (is there 3D for this?), it's safe to say GotG could reach that in less than 3 weeks. Would Marvel Studios be happy with less than $200 million in the US? Replace detective story with sci-fi action, and the slapstick cartoon antics with modern snark and one-liners to pull in the people who loved that film; you've already got the comic and Marvel film fans.
Who Framed Roger Rabbit was marketed as a kid's movie, and all the hype was built around the technological marvel of having cartoons interact with live actors. Nowadays we're not even impressed by good CGI any more - in fact, we expect it - take it for granted even, and "bad CGI" that would have been mindblowing 25 years ago is a major strike against a movie. They even had half hour "making of" specials running on network television in advance to pump it up to the people. That's not happening with GotG. It's being marketed as an action blockbuster a-la The Avengers with their own gun-toting Scrappy Doo. It's a question of "can the marketing convince dad's coworkers down at the office." It'd be a tall order to begin with, and I'm not sure they're doing so.
 

figmentPez

Staff member
Is "Who Framed Roger Rabbit" a fair comparison?
Mickey Mouse and Bugs Bunny appeared in the same movie. No, it's not a fair comparison at all. It's not a SciFi action drama. It's a slapstick comedy that is mostly a play on the film noir genre.

The closest analogues to Guardians of the Galaxy are all animated films. Titan A.E. and Rise of the Guardians are both closer than WFRR. Despite being an amazing film, Rise of the Guardians failed at the box office, probably in large part because people couldn't see past the goofiness of the concept; and it's an animated fantasy film, which I think is an easier sell for goofy concepts than SciFi action with a more realistic visual style.
 

GasBandit

Staff member
Mickey Mouse and Bugs Bunny appeared in the same movie. No, it's not a fair comparison at all. It's not a SciFi action drama. It's a slapstick comedy that is mostly a play on the film noir genre.

The closest analogues to Guardians of the Galaxy are all animated films. Titan A.E. and Rise of the Guardians are both closer than WFRR. Despite being an amazing film, Rise of the Guardians failed at the box office, probably in large part because people couldn't see past the goofiness of the concept; and it's an animated fantasy film, which I think is an easier sell for goofy concepts than SciFi action with a more realistic visual style.
That's a really good comparison and salient point.
 
It's a question of "can the marketing convince dad's coworkers down at the office." It'd be a tall order to begin with, and I'm not sure they're doing so.
Well, they're certainly not doing so right now, but then, they also haven't begun any real marketing push yet. It's hard to judge how successful their marketing is going to be without knowning what they're doing for it. A month or two from now, when there's actually been something (assuming they don't just release the trailer tonight and that's it), it'll be another matter.
 
I think what's most confusing about this movie's release is the absolute lack of marketing push. Usually you can't get away from Marvel movie ads, especially online, but this one's barely been a blip on the radar. It makes me think Ant Man's marketing is going to be pretty lackluster as well.
 
Another problem is that GotG is a MCU film, ostensibly in the same universe as all the other MCU films. The contrast in tone is massive. Imagine Captain America fighting the Nazis alongside a raccoon.
 
Another problem is that GotG is a MCU film, ostensibly in the same universe as all the other MCU films. The contrast in tone is massive. Imagine Captain America fighting the Nazis alongside a raccoon.
This is legitimately why I'm excited. I won't say that the marvel movies have gotten bad, because that would be a bald faced lie, but they have felt pretty by the numbers for awhile now. I'm hoping Guardians has enough to breath some new life into them.
 
Another problem is that GotG is a MCU film, ostensibly in the same universe as all the other MCU films. The contrast in tone is massive. Imagine Captain America fighting the Nazis alongside a raccoon.
Yeah, that would be like having a WWII supersoldier, guy in powered armor, Norse god, and giant green rage monster fighting against an army of aliens led by another Norse god. Who'd watch that? :p
 
A comic book movie with anthropomorphic talking animals in it?!

Which was for quite some time the highest grossing non-studio film of all time.

HOWEVER, it also had the strength of being tied to an insanely popular franchise at the time.

Like other people have said, the lack of marketing this close to premier is troubling. It shows an extreme lack of faith from the studio.
 

figmentPez

Staff member
Another problem is that GotG is a MCU film, ostensibly in the same universe as all the other MCU films. The contrast in tone is massive. Imagine Captain America fighting the Nazis alongside a raccoon.
Stranger than Iron Man fighting Extremis goons alongside a 10 year-old?
 
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