World War 3?
- Thread starter Jay
- Start date
Up to 100 attendees traveling to the HIV/AIDS conference, I believe, but only 6 among them were experts in the field.
So if I understand right, the basics are that the Ukrainian rebels/Russian Separatists used this rocket launcher without a radar, which would have detected that it was a civilian airliner flying overhead instead of a Ukrainian troop transport plane.
Which, to me, is like giving some five-year-old children a power drill to play with.
Which, to me, is like giving some five-year-old children a power drill to play with.
Alternatively, they fired the rocket and didn't care it was a civilian target, planning to blame the other side for it. Like is happening now.
Or they just didn't know how to read it was a civilian airliner because they only received bare bones training.
There's no way Russia is going to look at the situation and go "we didn't know what we were doing." That would go against the image they're trying to present now. So even if it was a matter of incompetence, they would still be blaming the other side.
Exactly. Ether Ukrainian Army did it because they weren't trained correctly in their Warsaw Pact weaponry, the Separatists did the same thing for the same reason, or Russia did it intentionally to place blame on the Ukrainians.
In the end though, none of this matters. Even if we can prove the missile came from areas controlled by the separatists or Ukrainians, the front is fluid and narrow enough that it could have just been forces sneaking over to enemy controlled areas to cause an incident. No one is going to be punished for this.
And scenario 1 is extremely unlikely because of 1 simple fact: the Rebels aren't flying anything. So there's no "friend or foe" for a Ukrainian missile squad. They literally don't shoot at anything, because there's no reason to until Russia "officially" gets into this fight (which is even more unlikely).
2 or 3 is all that's (reasonably) left.
Ukraine rebel commander acknowledges fighters had BUK missile - so the rebels had at least 1 BUK missile.
GasBandit
Staff member
Which is more egg on the face of the Russian ambassador who was vehemently swearing up and down that they never gave the rebels any missile launchers. Who did then, Turkey?
It's like the Russian national motto has become "You can't prove we did anything, and it's not like you'd do anything about it, anyway."
More like, "You can't prove we did anything, because we made sure to destroy all the photographs."
--Patrick
Considering they just shot down two Ukrainian planes, it's clear they are being armed.
And using the victims' phones
Wife says word around the naval base where she works is that some families of victims have been receiving prank calls from the deceased's phones of people laughing, but I haven't seen anything in the news of it.
Wife says word around the naval base where she works is that some families of victims have been receiving prank calls from the deceased's phones of people laughing, but I haven't seen anything in the news of it.
And possibly Russia has weapons of mass destruction.
(No, seriously, that's how Russia is trying to play the coverage of this, as if it's another Iraq.)
(No, seriously, that's how Russia is trying to play the coverage of this, as if it's another Iraq.)
What, like this one? Tsar Bomba
As I said before, Putin can and will do anything he wants there, because nobody is going to start WW3 over Ukraine. I believe he could send in the Russian army openly and people still wouldn't militarily intervene. Because he has nukes.
And that's why it's important that aggressive nations don't get them, because nobody is willing to risk going against them once they do. See: North Korea as an example. That is also IMO why Iran would be much more dangerous for the region/world if they get them.
GasBandit
Staff member
NATO is now saying it has the evidence to call a spade a spade, asserts Russian artillery units/personnel are fighting in Ukraine on behalf of the separatists -
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/23/w...says.html?partner=rss&emc=rss&smid=tw-nytimes
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/23/w...says.html?partner=rss&emc=rss&smid=tw-nytimes
Russia just got PUTIN their place by NATO!
GasBandit
Staff member
FTFY
GasBandit
Staff member
Most likely. Like we all said at the start of this, nobody's going to go to war with Russia over Ukraine.
Dave
Staff member
I guess we'll see.
http://www.cnn.com/2014/08/28/world/europe/ukraine-crisis/index.html
Looks like Russia is invading on several fronts.
http://www.cnn.com/2014/08/28/world/europe/ukraine-crisis/index.html
Looks like Russia is invading on several fronts.
And then there's this: Canada mocks Russia on Twitter with helpful map and geography lesson offer
Go Canada!
Go Canada!
Dave
Staff member
And they are violating Finnish airspace.
http://yle.fi/uutiset/third_russian_airspace_violation_in_a_week/7438235
http://yle.fi/uutiset/third_russian_airspace_violation_in_a_week/7438235
Non-coincidentally: Finland and Sweden to Strengthen Ties with NATO
I'll bet that everybody on that border now wishes they had become full NATO members long ago like Estonia, Latvia, and Lithuania are. Even now, Russia's still not stupid enough (yet) to overfly actual NATO members.
Just so that everybody remembers, under that treaty, a conventional forces invasion on any NATO member justifies a Nuclear response from NATO allies.
GasBandit
Staff member
There's a question though about how much of a paper tiger that clause is, especially given that it would be vs a nuclear-capable Russia.
True, but we also have some missile defense systems in NATO leaning countries. It might be enough to deter anyone from pushing a button.
GasBandit
Staff member
Even if those systems are 99% effective, that hundredth missile getting through would be the most cataclysmic event in human history.
I have not read back, but just last month Russia broke an important Nuke Treaty. I.N.F.
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/07/29/w...uise-missile-in-violation-of-treaty.html?_r=0
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/07/29/w...uise-missile-in-violation-of-treaty.html?_r=0
The point is that they know any conventional attack will be met with MAD. Which worked for close to 70 years. Let's hope that keeps working.
GasBandit
Staff member
Apparently it hasn't.
http://www.cnn.com/2014/08/28/world/europe/ukraine-crisis/index.html
Russian troops and tanks. Russian media has changed its story to "Ok, yes, there are russian troops on the ground, but they're all retirees or on vacation, doing what they want on their own, so who are we to stop them?"
And who are they to apparently let them bring their tanks along on vacation, too, I guess.