GasBandit
Staff member
World War 3?
- Thread starter Jay
- Start date
I wouldn't. I'd imagine it'd be pretty hard to find parking for it.
GasBandit
Staff member
Dave
Staff member
You could park anywhere you want.
Ukraine isn't part of NATO. Neither is Finland. That's my point about Estonia, Latvia, and Lithuania. They were even parts of the USSR if I remember correctly, but Russia isn't even overflying them, because they are full NATO members. Not actually a part of NATO? Russia can do whatever the fuck it wants because the West is NOT going to risk it.
I believe I said the same a number of pages ago.
GasBandit
Staff member
That's true, and I agreed with that. Nobody's going to go to war with Russia over Ukraine. I guess that means the question is will Ukraine be enough to sate the bear in the woods?
Just like Austria was, and the Czech Republic (or whatever it was at the time), and... Oh was that somebody else? Appeasement works SO well against bullies/murderers.
+1 Godwin
GasBandit
Staff member
You just know Russia's salivating over the Baltic states that broke away first. No wonder they were so hot to join NATO. Russia would climb over a surprisingly large pile of dead babies if it meant more warm water ports.
Hey, not every country can have Halifax in it. Deep water harbour. Never freezes. Narrow (but not too much) of an entryway that can be easily defended.
GasBandit
Staff member
What exactly do these people think doing this will accomplish? Make us say "sorry" and go away?
See... I don't see how we look weak over Ukraine. It's more that we simply don't care.
That doesn't surprise me.
fade
Staff member
It would really surprise me if Russia's failure to comply with disarmament wasn't anticipated and considered heavily by the current administration and the massive associated advisory team. I can guess that there was some reasoning beyond ignorance behind the decision. I would venture a guess that someone is trying to play the game like chess rather than football, and is attempting to position the US on the world political field. Whether that's right or not is a different story, but I doubt it was a decision made without considering that Russia wouldn't reciprocate.
We never really had it to lose. What makes it something we, the US, need? If it's for the benefit of Europe, why not let them deal with it?
GasBandit
Staff member
Because they pretty much can't. It is in our interests, however, to support western civilization and democracy where it is trying to bloom.
I'm sorry, I can't hear you over the deafening silence of the West over the recent proclamations of Beijing in regards to Hong Kong's democracy. Get on the ball, Western civilization.
GasBandit
Staff member
Frankly I'm surprised it took Beijing as long as it has. But Hong Kong isn't the same as Crimea - China has plenty of warm water ports, and not very many ships.
I think it's in our best interests to push our allies to be a bit more self reliant and not wait for us to fix it. A strong Europe willing to put their soldiers in harms way when threatened by a neighbor is a much better deterrent than one across the ocean who is expected to be everywhere.
This is something Europe can and should handle. They're not helpless.
GasBandit
Staff member
They have been for almost the entirety of living memory, what has changed?
I'd qualify that: not-Britain in Europe qualifies for that statement. Britain is an exception to your statement there.
I don't buy it. Even if they are, it's because we insist on taking care of everyone else's problems. We're enabling them, and it's a good reason for them to change it.
I think the fundamental issue at hand is that Europe isn't willing to fight anymore, as they basically had a thousand years of looming war before the end of World War 2. They are tired of sending people off to die. But Russia? It's been getting the shit kicked out of it for almost as long. Russians are paranoid of other powers trying to take what is there and it's basically made them a bit crazy. So now they are willing to just take whatever they want because they know NO ONE will ever have there back.
GasBandit
Staff member
Russia - the psychotic homeless guy of the world.
Does anyone else find this disturbingly similar to how Nazi Germany began using a minority to direct blame and scorn onto as a way of distracting the people?
GasBandit
Staff member
It's not unique to the Nazis - "All our problems are the fault of the (scapegoat people)" is a common thread in the rise to power of a lot of tyrants and murderers.
The Nazis were actually rougher on the gays than the Russians are now. Even though the first head of the Nazi party's secret police was gay. Until the day the party took power and had him killed for his gayness.
GasBandit
Staff member
I've actually read that the cold war was de facto WW3, and the war on terrorism is the de facto WW4. Though, if we're going to split hairs here, 9/11 was the trigger, but not the start of the actual war. Austria didn't declare war the very day Archduke Franz Ferdinand was assassinated (that came about a month later, IIRC). So, probably something more akin to March 20, 2003.
What does that make North Korea then?