The Zoe Quinn sex-for-reviews scandal

fade

Staff member
If that's the case, then 1. he doesn't know that it's the cause, just an assumption, 2. shouldn't be applying it as a general rule, and 3. we're not the ones he should be talking to about it. As with others in this thread, my parents talked to me about this stuff. Not at length like they probably should have--Mom: "Hey honey, you know this isn't real/how it really works?" "Yup." "Okay."--but still, there was a dialogue.
Are you talking about me? I've done none of those. Of course it's an assumption, but I can trace it to specific times and places, and to outright comments from his friends with parents who permit them to play games I don't. I've also gone to great pains to point out that this is an anecdotal observation, but a very thought-inducing one. As for the third point, I already said it goes without saying that I've had this talk with my son. I just didn't think that had to be said explicitly.

To be clear again, I've not said "video games cause violence". I've said I've noticed that observing the realistic violence in newer games has definitely dulled their reaction to observations of violence in other media. That's all I said, and then I voiced some concern about what this could mean. I've also said, I don't know if there's any connection for certain, but I'm not quite willing to dismiss it outright.
 
Of course, there's the question of whether it's "desensitization", or being able to recognize it immediately as being fake because they're familiar with it's fictionalized presentation - ie "I can tell this is fake because it's just like in the games I play, and I know they're not real" as opposed to, "Eh, that guy just got shot 15 times? Big deal, I've seen worse." Then there's the issue of young boys tending to be fascinated with the grotesque...

As long as he doesn't start *acting* more violent and aggressive, it's probably fine. But I'd imagine as a parent you always wonder if you're doing the right thing no matter what you do.
 
I know you have disclaimers, but you seem really hung up on this as if it hadn't been brought up. And the dialogue does need to be said, it's not obvious--lots of parents don't bother, even when they're worried. Note again to my individual personal anecdotal example, my mother barely saying a few words to me. Hell, I never got the sex talk. Some people's parents don't want to make themselves uncomfortable by discussing uncomfortable subjects. I worry more about parents who just let their kids do whatever than those who are actively monitoring this stuff.

But on another note, you did do a short film where your son murders you and then you come back as a ghost and get revenge. It was funny. I think you are wringing your hands a little more than you need to if you have confidence in your kid to be doing that without issue.

Especially over that Skyrim opening, man. In God of War III, Kratos yanks off a god's head and it's drawn out, with him screaming and you can see the skin stretch, the tendons snap, and then every time you use that head as an item, the god screams again. That's some sick shit. But the Skyrim opening? You barely see a head roll. In fact, you see more from what you can do on your own later, with the sync kills that show blood splatter across the area and the head sever in slow-motion. Sometimes you'll just find them in places.

lydia.jpg
[DOUBLEPOST=1411831105,1411830943][/DOUBLEPOST]
But I'd imagine as a parent you always wonder if you're doing the right thing no matter what you do.
That's true. I'm often having to reaffirm for my aunts that they're doing a good job, because they have a hard time seeing it from the inside.
 

fade

Staff member
The skyrim thing was just an example. This must be one of those lack of tone things because you guys are putting a metric ton more weight on things than I'm actually expressing. In any case this is getting into one of those spiral things where we aren't making any progress so I think I will stop.
 
The skyrim thing was just an example. This must be one of those lack of tone things because you guys are putting a metric ton more weight on things than I'm actually expressing. In any case this is getting into one of those spiral things where we aren't making any progress so I think I will stop.
I'm ribbing you more than anything; it just jumped out at me as a weirdly low-key example. My post probably needed some lighthearted faces to get this across.

 

GasBandit

Staff member
There's been a lot of turmoil in the backer community for Mighty No. 9 again lately, centered around community manager "Dina," who some avid readers might remember being mentioned earlier in this thread.

http://techraptor.net/2014/10/01/might-no-9-lesson-manage-community/

FTA:
Mighty No. 9 – A lesson in how not to manage a community


The community surrounding Mighty No. 9, a game Kickstarted for promising to be a spiritual successor to Mega Man, has been in uproar recently – and not for the first time. And for some very similar reasons. Well, similar in the sense that the issues surrounding the first set of issues, and the issues now, all seem to stem from one person: the Mighty No. 9 community manager known as Dina. But, do not mistake that Comcept, the developers of the game, are equally at fault here for allowing what will be discussed here to continue to happen.

A recap of what happened last year:
In November, the Mighty No. 9 forums were started up and Dina as the community manager was eventually introduced. This was how she introduced herself. That started a curiosity about who she was and what she was doing there, was she qualified?




Regardless of what they found out about her personal politics, which some will focus on, what the community found out was troubling. Mighty No. 9 has been, since the beginning, advertised as the next game to revive the Mega Man franchise just under a different name. Well, Dina apparently has no experience with Mega Man, which would obviously rub that community in the wrong way, but most troubling is that she freely admitted that she only backed the project because her boyfriend (or best friend? still unclear here, regardless it is still a conflict of interest) is supposedly working on the project.

Now it gets a little confusing. That introduction she gave doesn’t really explain her role but it does seem she would be playing the community manager. However, some people were unsure about her role due to these tweets (more info that is just speculation, but helps explain the confusion). Eventually, Mark from 8-4, the localization developers for Mighty No. 9, responded (second email in image) saying that Dina was definitely not involved in the design process of the game.

That seemed to be a dead end and something that community members wouldn’t have to worry about anymore. However, the problems with Dina as the community manager don’t end there. The red underlined portions of Mark’s email are where many community members had, and continue to have issues.

Mark describes the role of the community manager was to be the “conduit between the community and the [development] team.” And that she is to be impartial. Obviously, she is not only going to pass on information as it is her job to also weed out spamming, trolling ,etc. But, Dina, as well as other moderators, don’t seem to be impartial when they start locking and deleting threads as well as banning backers from the forums for many reasons.

This was the original set of forum rules. People were banned, forums locked/deleted for: essentially saying goodbye to the community, voicing disagreement, and humor?

But the greivances against Dina don’t end there, the community is angry over not having their voice heard, not being directly spoken to by the mods but having their posts edited, and for how unprofessional they seem to act in some cases (Dina is Petitemistress).




The most frustrating thing is that when Mark said that Dina was essentially the “conduit between the community and the [development] team,” he was both right and wrong. It appears that nearly every bit of communication goes through Dina directly or indirectly. Various email addresses exist, but it appears that while Dina may not be in charge of them, she most assuredly has access to them. That’s an issue because who knows how aware Comcept truly is of what is going on in the community as their eyes and ears is in the position to manipulate, or leave out, what is said to them.

To top it all off, the worry that many community members had was not acknowledged by Comcept who refused to refund any backers – regardless of the legitimacy of their complaints about the community.
That more or less sums up what happened before (and is more or less still ongoing). Recently, the actions of the moderators of the Mighty No. 9 community, Dina first and foremost, have leaked over to the GamerGate issue. Dina disagrees with the GamerGate movement and seems to be silencing any discussion of it on the forums as well as blocking backers from the Mighty No. 9 official Twitter.

dinagg.jpg


One of the reasons she decided to remove a discussion of GamerGate is because it lacked sources. However, a community member did source their disagreements in a past thread long ago and the moderators still removed it. Dina claimed it to be harassment when the community member was criticizing her summation that a post should be allowed to stay because it was “middle of the road.” The evidence was to show just how the submitter was not middle of the road. Hypocritical to say the least, and seemingly censoring an opinion she disagrees with/bolstering one she does agree with at worst.

The latest controversy is over backers, some that have pledged hundreds of dollars, being blocked from the official Mighty No. 9 Twitter account. Dina claims that this is not happening. One also cannot help to notice how tactlessly she decided to respond to the issue. That kind of language and approach is common throughout her Twitter, and to a lesser degree on the Mighty No. 9 forums. That is worthy of note as this is just further evidence of the lack of professionalism that many community members have worried about for a long time.

It is also worth noting that many people blocked from the official Mighty No. 9 Twitter account are blocked from Dina’s as well.

The fact remains though: some Mighty No. 9 backers are being blocked, but why? So far I am still waiting for a reply from Comcept on the matter.

For many community members, silencing GamerGate discussion has been the final straw and they have started to issue chargebacks on their bank accounts, which essentially means that Comcept, if the chargeback is deemed correct, has no option in paying the person back. Some reports have come out that backers have received their money back through this method.

This is not condoning of that action but it brings up a question: why has Comcept continued to keep Dina as the Mighty No. 9 community manager if she is now undeniably making them lose money? A question that I hope to receive an answer to from Comcept some day.

A thing for all to consider: most of the information here was “leaked” from the Mighty No. 9 forums as the official forums are only accessible by backers, which I do not happen to be. Any information here was leaked, or given to TechRaptor, from users. That means that nobody here, unless you happen to be a backer, is seeing the full picture.

The saddest thing about all of this is that those actually developing Mighty No. 9 probably just want people to enjoy the game they are in the process of creating. This is one of those weird incidents where the controversy does not lie with the content of the game, or the people attached to its creation, but to simply a community manager.
 
I'm sympathetic to her situation, but from a non-backer's perspective (so I don't have access to the forums in question, so this is all conjecture), it certainly sounds like this is not a community where she can successfully act as a Community Manager. It's critically important for something like this for backers to feel like they have a reliable line of communication to the studio, and if she can't create/convey that atmosphere....
 
I'm sympathetic to her situation, but from a non-backer's perspective (so I don't have access to the forums in question, so this is all conjecture), it certainly sounds like this is not a community where she can successfully act as a Community Manager. It's critically important for something like this for backers to feel like they have a reliable line of communication to the studio, and if she can't create/convey that atmosphere....
From what Gas posted I don't think she can successfully act as a Community Manager period.
 
From what Gas posted I don't think she can successfully act as a Community Manager period.
Probably not, but I was being charitable. I know nothing about her work history or other qualifications she might have.[DOUBLEPOST=1412178648,1412178558][/DOUBLEPOST]These guys would not be the first (and won't be the last) to treat the Community Manager position as a throwaway joke position (if that's what happened). Riot, Blizzard, and Valve are all great examples of companies that took that position seriously, and surprise, surprise, they're known for having pretty strong ccompany-to-community relationships.
 
It sounds like she took a job she had no qualifications for and found her self out of her depth and in over her head. If she didn't still have the job and it seemed like she was dealing with it better I'd be more inclined to sympathize, instead I find myself thinking that she should step down or be fired.
 

GasBandit

Staff member
There is something to be said for hiring a media wonk. Mythic Entertainment in particular demonstrated their savvy when they hired two proto-social-media darlings to their staff for DAOC -

Sanya "Tweety" Thomas (now Weathers by marriage), the infamous EQ volunteer guide who frequently ranted about MMOs and those who play them, was hired to be their community manager, and did a very good job of it.

They also hired Scott "Lum the Mad" Jennings, website creator famous for his diatribes on the idiocy displayed by those at the helm of UO/EQ/etc, as a DB admin. He became the driving force behind the creation and expansion of the "Camelot Herald" website, an impressive compilation of statistics and reference data on the characters, guilds, patch notes and war status of the various servers and players for DAOC that quickly became the go-to source for all things DAOC while the "main" DAOC website languished forgotten by everyone.

But clearly Dina doesn't have the familiarity with what is supposed to be her wheelhouse that she would need for this position, and can't separate her politics from her profession - perhaps because, as a social media SJW, her politics basically WAS her profession. It begs the question again as to how exactly she got the job, and why - when she had no familiarity or affection for the subject matter other than her boyfriend being employed there.
 
From what Gas posted I don't think she can successfully act as a Community Manager period.
Even as a non-backer who can't get on the forums, that article has lot of holes in it just from looking at their own evidence.

One of the reasons she decided to remove a discussion of GamerGate is because it lacked sources. However, a community member did source their disagreements in a past thread long ago and the moderators still removed it. Dina claimed it to be harassment when the community member was criticizing her summation that a post should be allowed to stay because it was “middle of the road.” The evidence was to show just how the submitter was not middle of the road. Hypocritical to say the least, and seemingly censoring an opinion she disagrees with/bolstering one she does agree with at worst.
This for example. Just looking at the section of posts it's pretty clear that people from the forums are going to the twitter account that the community member posted tweets from and are harrassing the guy (otherwise there's no reason for the member to tell everyone "come on guys...There's no need to actually go to his account and bother him"), which is what Dina is referring to as the harrasment, not the community member disagreeing with her post.

The latest controversy is over backers, some that have pledged hundreds of dollars, being blocked from the official Mighty No. 9 Twitter account. Dina claims that this is not happening. One also cannot help to notice how tactlessly she decided to respond to the issue. That kind of language and approach is common throughout her Twitter, and to a lesser degree on the Mighty No. 9 forums. That is worthy of note as this is just further evidence of the lack of professionalism that many community members have worried about for a long time.
Again, just going to the tweet of Dina that the article linked, you can see she's not denying that people are being blocked, just the idea that people are being blocked just for supporting gamersgate. When asked why that user was blocked, she freely admits he was and said it was because he was posting screenshots of the private forums, something that's against the stated rules. Which, if you go to his twitter account from the first link in this paragraph and look back, he certainly was.

So whatever problems Dina might have as a community manager, this article is pretty clearly twisting things around, whether intentionally or not I don't know, to make the facts match their narrative.
 
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I'm a backer and DO have access to the forums. Dina's just kinda bad at her job and should have been replaced long ago, but I get the feeling that the person would be able to make that decision is ether...

- Too busy actually helping develop the game to deal with it
or
- Someone who isn't going to do it (boyfriend/friend/etc)

Yes, this has been a thing since launch but I was fine letting it drop once they made it clear she wasn't going to be involved in the design process and what I've seen since tells me that this was ether true or her involvement hasn't radically changed anything. Honestly though, I don't go to the forums very often because I get updates on anything I care about via email because the company is pretty good about sending out updates every week. As such, I haven't been there since GamerGate started and can't comment on anything that's happened there since.

That said... she's a community manager. That's like one step above being a tester. Who the fuck cares what a community manager thinks?
 
Along the lines of what Poe and Fade are talking about, I wonder if the problem lies in context.
I for one was pretty shocked by the opening scene of Skyrim. My son saw it, despite my objections, and couldn't care less. Because it was nothing compared to the multiplayer CoD he plays at his friends' houses.
Context is everything. Ask @Jay how having a daughter changed his outlook on video game cutscenes, for instance.
That Dwyer video is another example. It may be a poor-quality B&W video, but my brain has no trouble classifying it as f(event)="real" even though I have seen much more detailed full-color photorealistic game models set on fire during a cutscene or a trailer. I mean, I get the effect, my brain processes it as disturbing, but it's like it has been flagged as only being "virtually" disturbing, which means that I will only go so far as to "virtually" throw up, or only "virtually" feel the pain of the other protagonists. It's like role-play.

--Patrick
 
The next episode of South Park is apparently about Gamergate. I'm gonna take a shot in the dark and say shits gonna get funny.
 

GasBandit

Staff member
The next episode of South Park is apparently about Gamergate. I'm gonna take a shot in the dark and say shits gonna get funny.
It usually is. Damn, I need to get back on the stick and get caught up on my South Park episodes! I hadn't even realized they'd started up again.

Despite the NFL clips I saw earlier in the week.
 
So I went ahead and logged into the Mighty No.9 forums... for a website that has over 67k members, very few of them are actually active and for a website with so many members, it sure doesn't have the kind of post numbers you'd expect, especially considering the site is a year in. So I did a bit more digging... apparently it IS true that Dina is banning people from the forums for things they say outside of the forums, including on Kickstarter (where she's MARDINAFUNE and is using Inafune's own fucking account to do it). Most of the community interaction is happening on other sites at this point, outside of her grips. The only stuff people come to the official forums for anymore are the "Design A..." contests.

So a couple of things are happening:
- Dina's boyfriend works at 8-4, which is the company running the web presence, managed the Kickstarter, and are doing the English localization of the game. He's apparently high up too.
- Dina herself has connections to Playism, who work with a lot of Japanese game devs (including the team behind La Mulana 2, which was directly advertised during the KS), and WayForward (who ran a simultaneous KS for Shantae: Half-Genie Hero that involved some heavy cross promotion between Mighty No. 9 AND La Mulana 2).

So... yeah. This is definitely a case of a community manager who doesn't know how to do her job and is instead just doing whatever she wants. Unfortunately, she's likely untouchable because Inafune likely can't afford to piss off 8-4 this close to release... or he's just so busy that he doesn't care/know.

The next episode of South Park is apparently about Gamergate. I'm gonna take a shot in the dark and say shits gonna get funny.
It's not tonight's. Tonight is "Gluten Free Ebola". Must be next week's.
 
Inafune, like most Japanese devs, probably doesn't have clue one what's going on in their English community.
 

GasBandit

Staff member
Inafune, like most Japanese devs, probably doesn't have clue one what's going on in their English community.
This is my opinion as well. As far as most Japanese devs seem to know or care, the US market just doesn't exist.
 
Inafune, like most Japanese devs, probably doesn't have clue one what's going on in their English community.
That would be incorrect in this case. Mighty No.9 was announced and launched during a panel at PAX, where everyone in attendance was given their very own Mighty No. (all backers get one) and a beta invite. The vast majority of the backers on KS are from the West because KS wasn't a thing in Japan yet (they later added a paypal account to donate to for the Japanese folks who didn't get it).

Why did Kenji Inafune choose to start his work in the West? It's because he's been quite vocal about the stagnation of Japanese development and he's been working closely with Western developers since the initial development of Dead Rising 2 (Blue Castle did most of the work). He's got more than a few working at comcept. He was also behind the push for Capcom to release more titles outside of Japan. Hell, he QUIT CAPCOM so he could work with more Western devs.

So... no, Inafune is quite aware of the Western market. I honestly believe this is probably a situation where he just can't afford to get rid of Dina without causing a shitstorm with 8-4.

EDIT: 8-4 is also kind of shit at what they do. For example, these are from the recently released game Gunvolt, which they also translated. This makes me think Inafune might be locked into a shit contract.



 
That would be incorrect in this case. Mighty No.9 was announced and launched during a panel at PAX, where everyone in attendance was given their very own Mighty No. (all backers get one) and a beta invite. The vast majority of the backers on KS are from the West because KS wasn't a thing in Japan yet (they later added a paypal account to donate to for the Japanese folks who didn't get it).

Why did Kenji Inafune choose to start his work in the West? It's because he's been quite vocal about the stagnation of Japanese development and he's been working closely with Western developers since the initial development of Dead Rising 2 (Blue Castle did most of the work). He's got more than a few working at comcept. He was also behind the push for Capcom to release more titles outside of Japan. Hell, he QUIT CAPCOM so he could work with more Western devs.

So... no, Inafune is quite aware of the Western market. I honestly believe this is probably a situation where he just can't afford to get rid of Dina without causing a shitstorm with 8-4.

EDIT: 8-4 is also kind of shit at what they do. For example, these are from the recently released game Gunvolt, which they also translated. This makes me think Inafune might be locked into a shit contract.



Those aren't typos; they're gender-neutral pronouns. EDIT: Ninja'd.

Really, the translation isn't one of Gunvolt's bigger problems. The game gets kind of boring.[DOUBLEPOST=1412211962,1412211730][/DOUBLEPOST]
Nope, just tumblr ethics trying to make a game suck.
Eh, I wouldn't go that far. Certain countries have those as official pronouns, and I don't know what you'd call someone both genders--"it" doesn't really work. It may not even be an issue outside of English; I know Mandarin doesn't use gendered pronouns, which is really annoying in immigration cases, so perhaps Japanese is the same. No idea; I know almost nothing about the language.
 
Those aren't typos; they're gender-neutral pronouns. EDIT: Ninja'd.

Really, the translation isn't one of Gunvolt's bigger problems. The game gets kind of boring.[DOUBLEPOST=1412211962,1412211730][/DOUBLEPOST]

Eh, I wouldn't go that far. Certain countries have those as official pronouns, and I don't know what you'd call someone both genders--"it" doesn't really work. It may not even be an issue outside of English; I know Mandarin doesn't use gendered pronouns, which is really annoying in immigration cases, so perhaps Japanese is the same. No idea; I know almost nothing about the language.

Chinese doesn't? Well it does...written anyhow: 他-He

她(complete with female radical on the left)-She

它-It

The pronunciation on the other hand is all the same: "Ta"
 
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