I'm so confused.
[Movies] Talk about the last movie you saw 2: Electric Threadaloo
- Thread starter Dave
- Start date
I kinda disagree, because you can accuse Blade Runner and Firefly/Serenity of the same things. I don't think you're entirely wrong (in all of the above, white characters are the majority of positions of power, especially in the Firefly universe) but I don't think accents are a deal-breaker. Mr. Z has zero hint of an accent, and he was born and partly raised in Taiwan. I really enjoyed Big Hero 6 because it felt like a good superhero movie, as opposed to a Disney musical. I may also be biased, because I like that Disney has added Hapa leads like Hiro and Miles in Miles from Tomorrowland for Li'l Z to enjoy. Not that is stops him in the least from enjoying other characters, but kids do like to see "themselves" from time-to-time on-screen.
GasBandit
Staff member
I was primarily talking about the architecture, is what I was trying to get at. Charlie pulled me more into the "people" angle. Buuuut since that's where we are now...
Firefly at least has a believable reason for the melding of cultures (humans leave earth, the two most common languages being Chinese and English surviving the trip, etc). Blade Runner had accents though ("He say you brade runna!") and Firefly gets points for actually speaking (and fluently!) the non-english language, and bonus points for no subtitles. And note that even in his personal life, Hiro's authority figure was white. Why did "Aunt Cass" have to be white? I know it's a rule all Disney protagonists must be orphans, but it just smelled to me like saying, "it's ok, he may be a scary foreign devil, but he was raised civilized."
Regarding architecture, the backstory is that in an alternate universe, after the 1906 quake levels the city, Japanese immigrants helped rebuild the city. Falling back on their own expertise, they make the buildings more earthquake proof, and the city is renamed San Fransokyo to honor their contributions.
The premise of Firelfy's society (the blending of the two superpowers, being the US and China) wasn't bad, even believable, but the execution was terrible. I wouldn't call the Mandarin they were speaking "fluent" (usually it was butchered horribly and I've had fluent speakers watching with me go "What the hell are they trying to say?"), but also the fact that none of the leads, or most of the extras were Asian in appearance or even remotely looked mixed. Granted, not all biracial people are going to be obviously biracial, but Asian genes tend to be pretty strong. There was a lot more whitewashing going on in Firefly than Big Hero 6. I would guess Cass didn't have to be white, but if it's a "blended" society and Hiro* is reflecting that.
But I don't see the "accent" part as necessary. I know a number of people who were raised in Asia or other countries but when they speak English, they don't have an accent. In the case of San Frantoyko, it seemed like it was based in California, but unlike the usual sequestered "Japantowns" or "Chinatowns", they just out and out blended the city.
(*Most places I see site Hiro as being biracial, though I have yet to see anything that officially confirmed that's the case, including pictures of his parents.)[DOUBLEPOST=1425845763,1425845614][/DOUBLEPOST]
I was typing as you posted this, but good to know! It gave me that impression, although I didn't know the backstory behind it.
Firefly was incredibly lazy, just throwing in the non-english language, but then, no non-english, uh, people.
I thought one of Big Hero 6's biggest strengths was the diversity of this cast without relying on stereotypes. Both Hiro and Tadashi were half-asian (and voiced by Hapa actors) but not defined by their "asian-ness". They weren't science nerds because they were Asian and everyone ate with chopsticks. The team had two female leads that weren't defined by being women and we're just as much scientists as the rest of the team. No one was flirting with them or making a point to emphasize their femininity. Wasabi wasn't more athletic or less scientifically inclined because he was black. With the exception of Fred, it was like having an entire team of Tony Starks although I guess you could say a friend was the Tony Stark money. Even Aunt Cass was a female business owner, not just a waitress in someone else's restaurant, but they never made a huge deal out of it.
My only complaint for Sanfrantokyo is that it doesn't feel like a living, breathing city. The docks were almost completely deserted, as were the streets (which should have been full of cars). Outside of a few scenes, you hardly see anyone just walking around the city. I can forgive the comic-booky architectural design but I can't forgive a major east coast city for only have the working population of something like Columbus.
West Coast.
Yeah, my bad on that one.
GasBandit
Staff member
I know I'm quickly being shuffled into the role of "that guy" in this matter, but that sounds like ex post facto retconning. The golden gate bridge didn't start construction until 1933, and let's face it - turn of the century white people weren't exactly of appreciative of the contributions of asian laborers - they "made huge contributions" in building the transcontinental railroad, after all. What got renamed in their honor there, aside from graves?
I'd have said its biggest strength was the technical proficiency and artistic presentation of the medium, myself. They were diverse, yes, but they were all one-note. I suppose that's to be expected of an ensemble of supporting characters in a single movie. Not even particularly original designs - put one more colored stripe in Gogo's hair and she'd have been Wildstyle from Lego Movie.
Don't get me wrong, it's not a bad kid's movie. But when you put it alongside other marvel properties, it wouldn't have had much to make it stand out other than its adeptly handled CGI.
The execution was a little MEH but you know what, many series get better after a short first season. They just never had that chance. Breaking Bad wasn't great during the first season neither... but the premise was there. I'm sure it would have gotten better along the way.
Watched Maleficient tonight.
JESUS CHRIST PEOPLE.
Stop making these shitty movies already. I swear I've seen this 100 times.
Surely we've run out of Disney princesses/fairy tales?
You really think the Disney production team didn't put any thought into world building? They spent 2.5 years, hundreds of thousands of dollars and man-hours on thousands of design decisions and just decided after the fact, "uh, Asians did it?"
Given the alternate timeline where Japanese immigrants have had a profound impact on the city, it doesn't seem that farfetched that they decided to design the Golden Gate Bridge with a nod to Japanese aesthetics.
And yeah, it's really weird that the writers on a kid's movie would create a parallel world where people... aren't dicks to minorities?
If it was a matter of story-telling or pacing, I'd agree with you. But if the primary basis of your society is that it's become a blend of Chinese and American culture and you don't have anyone even remotely Asian in your cast, you're already starting off badly. I'm not sure more time was going to fix that unless they were planning on firing and recasting some of the main actors. They even had two people with a Chinese last name played by two actors who don't have any Asian ancestry whatsoever.
GasBandit
Staff member
That's my point. It's a kid's film. A decent kid's film, but that's all. I guess the hype and word of mouth had me ready for something special. But while it was technically proficient and visually pleasing, its guts were formulaic and by-the-numbers. It would not surprise me in the least to learn that the production team started with what they wanted their visual aesthetic to be, and then tacked on a thin shellac veneer of explanation when someone asked them for the in-universe "why."
You know, I was musing on the accent thing, and it occurred to me that Red Sonja, quite unintentionally I presume, ended up with a subtle inversion of expectations. The white lead had a thick accent, but the little Asian sidekick spoke flawless English. And this was a movie released around the time of The Goonies, Revenge of the Nerds, and Temple of Doom. I wonder if they thought it would be in bad taste to force Ernie Reyes, Jr. to cop an accent around the two stars with less than perfect English?
Might've had something to do with Prince Tarn being a prince, and thus audiences would expect him to speak with an air of royalty.
This is fucking bullshit and I hope you're being sarcastic.
Nope. Totally serious.
I mean, have you ever even heard some of the stories kids tell?
Sure, kids are interested in narrative, but they don't care whether there's any truth to it, whether it makes logical sense, or even if there are plot holes big enough to drive a Mack truck through. It just needs to be going somewhere, to be entertaining, and to be exciting.
...see?
--Patrick
Ok, so I finished the new Robocop. It's the story of a robotic, personality-less police officer who then becomes a cyborg.
I wasn't expecting much from this movie. I assumed it was going to be a dumb action movie, and it was, but it makes the sin of dumb action movies where too much of it is boring. Everything involving Alex Murphy before he becomes Robocop is dull and pointless. He's investigating a bad guy, the one who ultimately ends up responsible for his murder, who we only see twice throughout the entire film. Oh, he has a wife and son, who he has absolutely no chemistry with and the movie takes no time establishing, but we're supposed to feel for him because he has a family. Oh hey, he has his partner, Detective Lewis, who is a man in this version, which is fine, except he might as well be completely absent for all the purpose he serves in the story. We hardly ever get any interaction between them, and had they cut Lewis out completely nothing would have been changed.
And once the movie -finally- gets to the part it's at least semi-competent at, the action, it rushes to be over as quickly as possible.
There's some ideas here that could have worked. The original was a commentary on capitalism, privatization, corporate greed, and a man being lost within the corporate machine, mixed with some dark comedy moments and a little Verhoeven craziness. The remake -could- have become an interesting commentary on drone warfare, which is where I thought it was originally going, but the story ends up being completely toothless in that regard.
I wasn't expecting much from this movie. I assumed it was going to be a dumb action movie, and it was, but it makes the sin of dumb action movies where too much of it is boring. Everything involving Alex Murphy before he becomes Robocop is dull and pointless. He's investigating a bad guy, the one who ultimately ends up responsible for his murder, who we only see twice throughout the entire film. Oh, he has a wife and son, who he has absolutely no chemistry with and the movie takes no time establishing, but we're supposed to feel for him because he has a family. Oh hey, he has his partner, Detective Lewis, who is a man in this version, which is fine, except he might as well be completely absent for all the purpose he serves in the story. We hardly ever get any interaction between them, and had they cut Lewis out completely nothing would have been changed.
And once the movie -finally- gets to the part it's at least semi-competent at, the action, it rushes to be over as quickly as possible.
There's some ideas here that could have worked. The original was a commentary on capitalism, privatization, corporate greed, and a man being lost within the corporate machine, mixed with some dark comedy moments and a little Verhoeven craziness. The remake -could- have become an interesting commentary on drone warfare, which is where I thought it was originally going, but the story ends up being completely toothless in that regard.
Cinderella (2015 film)
First, let me get it out of the way: this is no deconstruction. This is no revisionist take. This is no modern spin on the story. This is a classic, traditional adaptation of a fairy tale. And it does so with conviction of heart. There are no winks, no nudges about its fairy tale nature. This adaptation clings to the magic of sincere belief in its story and it works all the more for it. Even better is how it adds to the story not by necessarily throwing some big change into it, but rather in how it showcases the characters and their interactions. We see how the Prince can fall for Cinderella after a brief meeting with her in the woods, by how she is kind and sincere, which is a major change from the shallow princesses the Grand Duke wants him to marry. We see how Cinderella, even though she goes about doing housework while heaped with abuse from Lady Tremaine, keeps herself up by making the most of a bad situation and following through with trying to treat others with kindness and not giving in to fear. We even see twinges of backstory for Lady Tremaine, offering a shadow of sympathy even with how cruel she is. The adaptation may be traditional, but it offers substance for the characters.
Even better is how the cast and crew play ball with capturing that joy and love. The film is wonderfully shot, the sets and costumes and beautiful with a life and color akin to the old Technicolor visuals, and the cast is high wattage. From Lily James and her quiet strength as Cinderella to Cate Blanchett and her sorrowful yet cold bitterness as Lady Tremaine, the cast is game for working with this story. It is like all members were tuned together in capturing the magic of this fairy tale, all under the directing work of Kenneth Branagh.
It may be traditional. It may be old-fashioned. However, this adaptation of Cinderella captures the heart and magic of what can make a fairy tale so...well, magical.
First, let me get it out of the way: this is no deconstruction. This is no revisionist take. This is no modern spin on the story. This is a classic, traditional adaptation of a fairy tale. And it does so with conviction of heart. There are no winks, no nudges about its fairy tale nature. This adaptation clings to the magic of sincere belief in its story and it works all the more for it. Even better is how it adds to the story not by necessarily throwing some big change into it, but rather in how it showcases the characters and their interactions. We see how the Prince can fall for Cinderella after a brief meeting with her in the woods, by how she is kind and sincere, which is a major change from the shallow princesses the Grand Duke wants him to marry. We see how Cinderella, even though she goes about doing housework while heaped with abuse from Lady Tremaine, keeps herself up by making the most of a bad situation and following through with trying to treat others with kindness and not giving in to fear. We even see twinges of backstory for Lady Tremaine, offering a shadow of sympathy even with how cruel she is. The adaptation may be traditional, but it offers substance for the characters.
Even better is how the cast and crew play ball with capturing that joy and love. The film is wonderfully shot, the sets and costumes and beautiful with a life and color akin to the old Technicolor visuals, and the cast is high wattage. From Lily James and her quiet strength as Cinderella to Cate Blanchett and her sorrowful yet cold bitterness as Lady Tremaine, the cast is game for working with this story. It is like all members were tuned together in capturing the magic of this fairy tale, all under the directing work of Kenneth Branagh.
It may be traditional. It may be old-fashioned. However, this adaptation of Cinderella captures the heart and magic of what can make a fairy tale so...well, magical.