Civil Forfieture. WTF.

jwhouk

jwhouk

Isn't this like the first thing they teach you when you become an officer or (in my case) YC?

"Don't take stuff from the offenders, and don't play favorites. You will get burned in the end."
 
Terrik

Terrik

GasBandit said:
Because governments will take whatever the people don't actively stop them from taking, and feel justified in doing so.
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What bugs me more is the police officers that are actively encouraging it. Is that the kind of country they want to live in? Is it the "I'm part of the power structure so it won't harm me" mentality showing up here, or what?
 
Terrik

Terrik

Charlie Don't Surf said:
It's really hilariously awful that we have separate megathreads for the Police physically beating and then also outright stealing.
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I have to agree. I have no real desire to be antagonistic towards police, police departments or law enforcement in general. Actually, I generally support them. However abuse of power by an entity like this which carries the ability to ruin your life or outright end it is a scary thing. Thankfully, in the grand scheme of things, this kind of stuff is happening on a limited scale---but it is happening. And it shouldn't.
 
Charlie Don't Surf

Charlie Don't Surf

And also, let me be clear: I support police officers, lowercase, collective noun. Fuck the Police, uppercase, the entity.


and I am also a fan of The Police, both words of the proper noun capitalized.
 
GasBandit

GasBandit

Staff member
Civil Forfeiture should not be a thing. I'm pretty sure this is part of what the founding fathers were thinking of when they said "unreasonable search AND SEIZURE." As in, the government just taking your shit.

I don't care how many "drug dealers it helps take down." This is explicitly the kind of shit we started throwing tea in harbors over. Better 100 guilty go free than one innocent etc etc.

Anyone who participates in the practice should be drawn and quartered on the national mall.
 
PatrThom

PatrThom

Yay! Arizona passed a law making it illegal for State and local authorities to seize money from people without due process.
Boo, it doesn't affect federal agencies like the DEA.

--Patrick
 
Dave

Dave

Staff member
If I could I'd buy it and find out whose it was, then give it back to him. Can you imagine having that resource in your back pocket?

"Oh? You want to keep letting your dog shit in my yard? Let me call my friend, T-Bone and we'll see what happens next."
 
PatrThom

PatrThom

This one has been making the rounds lately, too: IRS Seizes $107,000 From Man’s Bank Account
The federal agents...showed McLellan paperwork that included deposits to the store’s account at Lumbee Guaranty Bank. The statements showed two deposits made within a 24-hour period totaling $11,400. The statements, they said, indicated he had a history of consistent cash deposits of less than $10,000, which is illegal. Then, the agents told the small business owner [that] The Internal Revenue Service had seized all of the money in L&M’s bank account: $107,702.66.
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Months after seizing McLellan’s money, the federal government offered him 50 percent of his money back if he agreed to a settlement deal by March 30.
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Well, that's mighty generous of them. Fortunately this story had a somewhat happy ending, where the case was dismissed...just three days after the above story was published.

Hrmm.....

--Patrick
 
PatrThom

PatrThom

PatrThom said:
"Yesterday, two landmark reforms took effect in Montana and New Mexico [...] Both states now require a criminal conviction for civil forfeiture, while New Mexico went even further and banned the practice outright."
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Law preventing property seizures cutting into police budgets
New Mexico law enforcement agencies say a new state law that prevents authorities from seizing assets from people unless they are convicted of a crime will devastate their budgets.
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Boo-
-fucking*-
-Hoo.

EDIT: Read the story to Kati, her comment? "If the Republicans want to cut back on crime in their state, they might want to fork over some money to their local constabulary. This might mean having to institute/raise taxes. I know that's a dirty word there, but that is what they're for."

--Patrick
*I don't swear often. By choice. I felt this time it was appropriate.
 
AshburnerX

AshburnerX

This is entirely the police's fault: for years they have used projected civil forfeiture proceeds to adjust their budgets and now that they can't afford the latest training and gear. If they want to keep their toys, they'll need to get a tax levy like everyone else... oh who am I kidding, they're just gonna shift more guys to traffic enforcement instead.

This isn't going to stop until the police lose their ability to issue fines (that they get a cut of) completely. Then again, it's almost a sure bet that they'll just shift back to shakedowns again. Wasn't it a former NYPD chief that lamented that he'd be a millionaire if it wasn't for guys like Frank Serpico exposing their grift?
 
Bubble181

Bubble181

Police getting a cut of the fines they write is a horrible thing only around in countries known for their corrupt administration, police states, and the USA. Much as I'd like more cops around here giving out fines for little crap occasionally (the amount of dangerous driving on Belgian roads is beyond help), it's a horrible faux solution.
 
AshburnerX

AshburnerX

Bubble181 said:
Police getting a cut of the fines they write is a horrible thing only around in countries known for their corrupt administration, police states, and the USA. Much as I'd like more cops around here giving out fines for little crap occasionally (the amount of dangerous driving on Belgian roads is beyond help), it's a horrible faux solution.
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The issue isn't even that they can write fines. The issue is they get a cut of it. This incentivizes them to write as many fines as they can for profit. I have no problem with the police writing fines for drunk driving or just generally improper vehicle behavior, but those fines should be going towards road and bridge maintenance.
 
Gruebeard

Gruebeard

If The Dukes of Hazzard taught me anything, it was how to jump a creak. Wait, I mean it was that the fines go to the county, and the corrupt sheriff gets 50% of 50%.

Also, that the Confederate flag stands for moonshine and bootlegging. And thus, NASCAR.
 
MisterSteve

MisterSteve

It's common practice in every state. So common, in fact, that many countries post travel warnings to vacationing citizens headed for the US, basically warning them of the practice. Anything over $100 is grounds for civil asset forfeiture in most areas. John Stossel - Policing For Profit


Obviously, the legal costs to recover the funds are generally higher than the amount seized, making it a pointless effort in futility.
 
Tinwhistler

Tinwhistler

https://boingboing.net/2015/12/27/doj-shuts-down-asset-forfeitur.html?fk_bb

DoJ shuts down asset forfeiture program after Congress slashes its budget
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States have been trying to curb this practice, changing state law so that law enforcement agencies wouldn't get to keep the stuff their seized. But the DoJ wouldn't play along, meaning that cops could still keep stuff by confiscating it under federal, not state law.

Attempts to get the DoJ to play along have proved fruitless. After all, the DoJ got to split the take with local law-enforcement.. So in last week's budget bill, Congress took $1.2 billion away from the DoJ, money that they used to administer the program. Without that subsidy, the program became a money-loser. It is dead.
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