Gas Bandit's Political Thread V: The Vampire Likes Bats

Well, Catholics, for one, as I said before. Though I know you were using "Who cares" colloquially to mean "nobody should care," instead of literally not being aware of anyone caring, but I'm proving a point here that there ARE people with other beliefs on the matter than you and I.
The fetuses also prefer life - when instruments enter the womb, the fetus reacts by pulling away from them, increasing their heart rate, and other typical fight or flight reactions.
 
And it should be the woman's option to choose these things in the same way people should be allowed to make other bad long term health decisions, like smoking, drinking, and working 70 hours a week.
Wait, are you a libertarian now, or a Mincome advocate? I'm super-hazy due to my chronically bad memory, but I remember you being in favor of a strong welfare state in the usual sense of the word, which is inevitably coupled with restrictions ("nanny state" as GB affectionally calls it) for the furtherance of public health. I'm likely wrong here on your beliefs.

Also, out of curiosity, what do you think of people who willfully/negligently damage a future person's quality-of-life through unnecessary actions during pregnancy? E.g. fetal alcohol syndrome, certain prescription drugs, environmental hazards, ...) For the purpose of this "aside", address those pregnancies that are brought to term, the aborted ones are not of concern.
 

GasBandit

Staff member
Wait, are you a libertarian now, or a Mincome advocate? I'm super-hazy due to my chronically bad memory, but I remember you being in favor of a strong welfare state in the usual sense of the word, which is inevitably coupled with restrictions ("nanny state" as GB affectionally calls it) for the furtherance of public health. I'm likely wrong here on your beliefs.

Also, out of curiosity, what do you think of people who willfully/negligently damage a future person's quality-of-life through unnecessary actions during pregnancy? E.g. fetal alcohol syndrome, certain prescription drugs, environmental hazards, ...) For the purpose of this "aside", address those pregnancies that are brought to term, the aborted ones are not of concern.
Oh, no, you remember correctly, Charlie's a die hard supersocialist who thinks the government needs to be in charge of everything from paying for health care to mowing his lawn. But he also thinks it's important to shield everyone from the consequences of their actions without judgement. So, yeah, booze it up, sex it up, drug it up, go wild, and then the government will pay to have you stitched back together so you can do it tomorrow.
 
Not really funny, so I'm not putting it there. @Denbrought posted it to tumblr, but the artist is from my neck of the woods...
*snip*
Same reason I didn't post it. agoodcartoon mostly posts unintentionally bad cartoons with redeeming captions. If his caption is "jfc" or nada, it's usually a sign it's something like this.
 

GasBandit

Staff member
So if life sucks and there's no fixing it, what's the point?
"No fixing it" is quite a leap. There are moments of joy, and fulfillment to be found if you are smart, lucky, and earnest in your endeavors. But to expect it to be nothing but non-stop fun and frivolity with no work, pain, or responsibility is folly of the highest order, and to be comfortably kept by a master who controls you is to surrender your humanity. A government which is powerful enough to give you everything you want is powerful enough to take everything you have.

This was my principal objection to socializing health care. Once the government controls your access to health care, they may as well have bought you for life. They own you as much as they own a completely domesticated animal that would no longer know how to survive in the wilds without its master providing for it.
 

Necronic

Staff member
@ Steinman

That is absolutely NOT how accounting works. It is not all "one big pot" (even if the bank account is), and absolutely no one with any accounting talent treats their books like that. This is accounting 101 here. And fungibility doesn't apply to accounting, trying to make it work like that in practice would be an excellent way to go to jail for tax fraud.

ed: If you follow the logic I think you are trying to apply here you should pretty much not be involved in the economy at all because your money will enter "fungible" accounts at the bank and could be used for immoral purposes.

Like if you deposit a 100$ bill in the bank and the bank gives that specific 100$ bill to someone else to go get an abortion and then when you come to retrieve your 100$ bill you get one that was deposited by a drug dealer.
 

GasBandit

Staff member
@ Steinman

That is absolutely NOT how accounting works. It is not all "one big pot" (even if the bank account is), and absolutely no one with any accounting talent treats their books like that. This is accounting 101 here. And fungibility doesn't apply to accounting, trying to make it work like that in practice would be an excellent way to go to jail for tax fraud.
Leftists don't go to jail.
 

Necronic

Staff member
Of course not, why would the state punish it's biggest allies? If you were a democrat you would have gotten your government issued decoder ring which is used to get out of any crime. Serves you right for being a libertarian.
 

GasBandit

Staff member
Of course not, why would the state punish it's biggest allies? If you were a democrat you would have gotten your government issued decoder ring which is used to get out of any crime. Serves you right for being a libertarian.
Don't worry, I stole one from Bill Ayers. I'm untouchable now!
 

Necronic

Staff member
Just to give another example of what I'm talking about what you're describing would be akin to using the company credit card for personal use and then immediately repaying it out of your personal account.

Which is a firable offense in most major companies.[DOUBLEPOST=1447959067,1447958978][/DOUBLEPOST]Do we have any accountants here that could clear this up because now I'm questioning my own logic.
 

GasBandit

Staff member
Just to give another example of what I'm talking about what you're describing would be akin to using the company credit card for personal use and then immediately repaying it out of your personal account.

Which is a firable offense in most major companies.[DOUBLEPOST=1447959067,1447958978][/DOUBLEPOST]Do we have any accountants here that could clear this up because now I'm questioning my own logic.
Well... I'm not an accountant... buuuuut I can tell you that happens in more than one place I've worked.

Heck, there was even this one time at my first full time IT job that I unwittingly used the company's mail meter to send a personal package. Because I used my own credentials to do it, the accounting department tracked me down, just had me write a check for the postage I used, and that was the end of the matter.
 
I'm fine if you believe that the current system works, and that the laws are being absolutely upheld, and that there's no reason to further separate government funds from a company that performs abortions.

I, and others, disagree and would like to see a much more clear line and increased transparency and accountability that would give me more confidence that the existing law is actually, in fact, being upheld within Planned Parenthood.

It must be nice to have such a great deal of faith that both the government and planned parenthood are following the law to the letter. Perhaps I've seen too much of how corporations and governments work to permit myself to trust them without accountability.

Trust, but verify. Since we cannot verify, then let's remove funding until we can, or until it's clear that the two operations are completely separate.
 

Necronic

Staff member
I agree that we should ensure that they are following the law with their accounting practices. Does anyone know how the Hyde amendment is actually enforced? I have a hard time believing that they would risk the overwhelming censure that would follow if they were to get caught violating the Hyde amendment seeing as they easily have enough private donations to cover all abortion procedures. It simply makes no sense for them to cross that line since there is zero motivation/need to do so and a million reasons not to.

But yeah, I do agree that the books should be more transparent, and this isn't just for PP, it's for any organization that enjoys a tax exempt status, including SuperPACs and churches.[DOUBLEPOST=1447965780,1447965630][/DOUBLEPOST]Actually yeah I think that would be my question though, why would they even consider violating the Hyde amendment. There is absolutely no reason to do so. They have enough private funds to cover all of the abortions they provide.
 

GasBandit

Staff member
I agree that we should ensure that they are following the law with their accounting practices. Does anyone know how the Hyde amendment is actually enforced? I have a hard time believing that they would risk the overwhelming censure that would follow if they were to get caught violating the Hyde amendment seeing as they easily have enough private donations to cover all abortion procedures. It simply makes no sense for them to cross that line since there is zero motivation/need to do so and a million reasons not to.

But yeah, I do agree that the books should be more transparent, and this isn't just for PP, it's for any organization that enjoys a tax exempt status, including SuperPACs and churches.[DOUBLEPOST=1447965780,1447965630][/DOUBLEPOST]Actually yeah I think that would be my question though, why would they even consider violating the Hyde amendment. There is absolutely no reason to do so. They have enough private funds to cover all of the abortions they provide.
They have enough private funds to cover the abortions because the incidental overlaps are paid for by the subsidized portion. It's actually possible without violating the Hyde amendment at all. You have to buy the medical supplies and pay the doctors explicitly from the "abortion" side's money, but you can pay for unified facilities, advertising, office and administration staff, furniture, legal expenses, so on and so forth from the side that is able to be subsidized. If you had to spin off the abortion practice, as Stienman suggested, into its own independent entity, you'd have a lot of increased expenses that would be redundant in a unified organization, and then the "private funds" might not be sufficient.
 

GasBandit

Staff member
How about decriminizalize non-violent drug possession/sales. Bet that would take some of the strain off the penal system.
 

Necronic

Staff member
It's true that if you spun it off you would see increased costs, but that doesn't necessarily mean that the subsidized portion is covering the restricted portion, it could also mean that costs for both sides went down. I don't think good accounting practices would allow you to cover the entire overhead with subsidized capital, but without any kind of transparency (and I don't really know what transparency exists) it would be hard to know for sure if they did this.

Still though, at the end of the day I don't really see how this whole funding discussion is even germane. The issue at hand isn't a restriction or reallocation of funding, or even any substantiated claims of malfeasance or requests for investigation of fund missapropriation. This issue is a ridiculous requirement for on hand surgical facilities that has led to all of these clinics to be shut down. I haven't heard a single one of you make a claim to the necessity of this requirement. It's been more a general dissatisfaction with the simple existence of the organization. I'm curious if any of you could actually defend this law in good faith.
 

Dave

Staff member
Jared from Subway gets 15.6 years in prison, not eligible for parole until at least 13 have passed.

Dude had 5.6 TB of child porn on his computer. 5.6 TERABYTES. That's...a lot of child porn.

I think it could and should have been a longer sentence, considering his partner was actually shown in some of the videos. But I guess they couldn't prove any of that included Jared. But his partner is going to go away for a long, long, *long* time.
 
Jared from Subway gets 15.6 years in prison, not eligible for parole until at least 13 have passed.

Dude had 5.6 TB of child porn on his computer. 5.6 TERABYTES. That's...a lot of child porn.

I think it could and should have been a longer sentence, considering his partner was actually shown in some of the videos. But I guess they couldn't prove any of that included Jared. But his partner is going to go away for a long, long, *long* time.
I thought they gave him a deal in order to get his testimony on the partner.
 
"Life is pain. Anyone who tells you differently is selling something." -The Dread Pirate Roberts

"Nothing is free. If you're not the one paying, you're what's being sold." - The Gas Bandit
I'll add one-
TANSTAAFL, "There ain't no such thing as a free lunch." - The Moon is a Harsh Mistress, Robert Heinlein
 
I thought they gave him a deal in order to get his testimony on the partner.
I thought the deal was because he owed up to it and agreed to up-front 6-figure reparations for the victims. Haven't been following this closely though, can't say it's my preferred light reading.
 

GasBandit

Staff member
It's true that if you spun it off you would see increased costs, but that doesn't necessarily mean that the subsidized portion is covering the restricted portion, it could also mean that costs for both sides went down. I don't think good accounting practices would allow you to cover the entire overhead with subsidized capital, but without any kind of transparency (and I don't really know what transparency exists) it would be hard to know for sure if they did this.

Still though, at the end of the day I don't really see how this whole funding discussion is even germane. The issue at hand isn't a restriction or reallocation of funding, or even any substantiated claims of malfeasance or requests for investigation of fund missapropriation. This issue is a ridiculous requirement for on hand surgical facilities that has led to all of these clinics to be shut down. I haven't heard a single one of you make a claim to the necessity of this requirement. It's been more a general dissatisfaction with the simple existence of the organization. I'm curious if any of you could actually defend this law in good faith.
I don't know enough about this law or the medical ramifications of the abortion process to opine as to whether the law has merit or not. But my initial assumption is that this is an end run to reduce the number of abortion clinics on a technicality rather than overtly. My comment about the funding was meant as a tangential footnote, but it kinda took the discussion in a new, somewhat unrelated direction.
 
please ignore ghost text
Just to give another example of what I'm talking about what you're describing would be akin to using the company credit card for personal use and then immediately repaying it out of your personal account.

Which is a firable offense in most major companies.[DOUBLEPOST=1447959067,1447958978][/DOUBLEPOST]Do we have any accountants here that could clear this up because now I'm questioning my own logic.
Wow. Yes, companies monitor the credit cards of employees very closely. An accident here or there is understandable but because expenses on cards are used to track things like office expenses and cost of goods/freight, it makes the company numbers look bad if people do this.

In short, very frowned upon. Especially by the auditors who come in every year.


I can understand why people think the money goes into one pool and it is easy to mix it up, but accounting is a very particular field. There are always paper trails and auditors and accounting in general ears on the side of caution, especially when laws are involved. Otherwise there ends up being jail time or worse, huge fines.
 
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This was my principal objection to socializing health care. Once the government controls your access to health care, they may as well have bought you for life. They own you as much as they own a completely domesticated animal that would no longer know how to survive in the wilds without its master providing for it.
Yes, but now our lives are currently owned by insurance companies that believe that protecting their profit margin is more important than protecting the lives entrusted to them and it's not simply a matter of finding the one company that is legit when all of them are run in this manner. At least the government has greater societal reasons to consider when it denies care; the insurance companies mainly do it to protect their jobs and to enrich a few wealthy share holders. It's basically feudalism, except the mechanism of control is medicine, not land, food, or security. Fuck, it's LITERALLY a protection racket but it works by denying you coverage instead of breaking your legs. Why do you think gangsters call it "buying insurance"?
 
Yes, but now our lives are currently owned by insurance companies that believe that protecting their profit margin is more important than protecting the lives entrusted to them and it's not simply a matter of finding the one company that is legit when all of them are run in this manner. At least the government has greater societal reasons to consider when it denies care; the insurance companies mainly do it to protect their jobs and to enrich a few wealthy share holders. It's basically feudalism, except the mechanism of control is medicine, not land, food, or security. Fuck, it's LITERALLY a protection racket but it works by denying you coverage instead of breaking your legs. Why do you think gangsters call it "buying insurance"?
One fairly rehearsed counter-argument to this is to say that the root issue is the permeability of outside money in U.S. politics, which leads to legislation that regulates industries in a way that hurts the consumer by limiting their choices (e.g. you can't easily start your own insurance company due to the existing regulation). If regulation were removed, or limited to basic/benign principles, more choices would appear in the marketplace and people would hopefully choose the company that functions best for them, leading it to flourish. Or maybe they'll choose wrong because humans are idiots, but I digress.

Then again, I've been listening to a lot of people lately whose problem-solving algorithm seems to only consist of "STEP 1: DEREGULATE" so eh.
 

GasBandit

Staff member
Yes, but now our lives are currently owned by insurance companies that believe that protecting their profit margin is more important than protecting the lives entrusted to them and it's not simply a matter of finding the one company that is legit when all of them are run in this manner. At least the government has greater societal reasons to consider when it denies care; the insurance companies mainly do it to protect their jobs and to enrich a few wealthy share holders. It's basically feudalism, except the mechanism of control is medicine, not land, food, or security. Fuck, it's LITERALLY a protection racket but it works by denying you coverage instead of breaking your legs. Why do you think gangsters call it "buying insurance"?
At least the insurance companies ostensibly are beholden to oversight, and there are competing insurance companies - there aren't competing federal governments. And I don't agree that "all the insurance companies are the same," we just had a great big upheaval in our office because, to try and shave a nickel's profit, our owner tried to move us from Blue Cross/Blue Shield to Scott & White health insurance, which is well known here in Texas for being utterly awful. Thankfully, the pushback was enough to prevent the move.

Let's also not pretend that how things have been in the health insurance/health care market has actually been something you could call "free market capitalism" for quite some time. And the chickens are starting to come home to roost on Obamacare, as people are starting to notice rate hikes and/or coverage drops. But that's what happens when you try to budget 6 years with 10 years worth of money.
 
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