The Nolan trilogy was great though.
[Movies] The DC Cinematic Universe - The David Zazlav Dumpster Fire.
The Nolan trilogy was great though.
Ehhhhh, the first two were great. Dark Knight Rises, while good, had a LOT of problems. One of which was they tried to do too much all in one movie.
GasBandit
Staff member
The first one was alright, the second one was really good, mostly thanks to Heath Ledger's portrayal of the Joker, and the third one was just... ehhh. Ok, I suppose.
Ok, I can dig your point of view.
I did like the neck snapping scene, however. You can see that he's pained to do it. He realizes at that point that he's truly alone.
The trucker scene - you're spot on. It contrasts sharply with the scene in his youth were he was tempted to beat the shit out the bully.
I guess I'd like to see a Superman story that strays from the "all American conservative values" Clark Kent, and explores morality from more of an existential, nihilistic view. Maybe that's just not Superman, and I'm asking for something that's more Batman's realm? I'll have to stick to this:
It may seem silly, but that Five for Fighting song does explore the side of Superman I want to see.
I think here is the difference between Superman who spends his free time at the Fortress of Solitude or JLUHQ vs Superman who spends his free time visiting his mom or trying to/dating Lois. One of my favorite scenes from the animated stuff is in the Superman: Doomsday movie where Lois visits Ma Kent at the farm and Ma is about to shoo her off, until Lois breaks down on the porch and she realizes what Clark meant to her, that someone else exists who can grieve his loss. Superman meant a lot to many people, but Clark Kent had a connection to people close to him. And yet, he's also Superman.
Further down the line, I'm just waiting to see how they fuck up the Wonder Woman movie, which sucks because I really want a good Wonder Woman movie.
Yeah, see Superman is meant to be optimistic and hopeful. Nihilism is more Batman's thing, though Superman's existence and impact on the world has certainly been explored (Superman vs. The Elite, All Star Superman).
And the thing is, as much as I hated that Superman killed in Man of Steel, I know he's killed before. If it's done right, under the right circumstances, then I can maybe grudgingly accept it. He gave his life to kill Doomsday, for example (though in the previous issue, a telepath said Doomsday was an empty-headed monster bred only for destruction, which partly excuses this). Here's four things that bugged me about the neck snapping:
1) He could've flown Zod away, at the very least. Or blocked the heat vision with his hand. Or done a million other things to stop him.
2) Why did those people matter when the entire final fight sequence was just a hollow, nothing fight scene with a bunch of punching? I think it was Mark Waid or Kurt Busiek that said it would've worked better if you saw Superman constantly struggling to stop Zod from killing people throughout the whole fight, and then get to that scene with the family. It would've had so much more impact.
3) As I mentioned with the truck stop and the gas station, they didn't show Clark being careful or considerate before when that should've been his upbringing in the first place. Yeah, he saved the bus load of kids, but everything else didn't show that care for humanity.
4) He may have shown remorse immediately after, but what followed it? A cutesy scene where the military girl says he's hot, and then showing up at the Daily Planet in glasses. It went completely against the unremorseful scene because, as the writers mentioned in interview, the change to killing Zod came after the script was complete. Originally, Zod would go into the Phantom Zone with the rest of them. So it was a sloppy addition tacked on without thought of the after effect.
And I guess the reason I'm personally not looking forward to Superman vs Batman is because they're continuing down that bleak, dour, colour-washed aesthetic. In fact, it looks worse. Plus, they're rushing to do everything all at once rather than build their universe organically like the Marvel Universe did. They're trying to do in two or three movies what Marvel accomplished in over half a dozen (and continuing to grow as they work towards Infinity War).
@Mathias, if you're interested, here are five books that I think capture Superman best. They're the ones I enjoy re-reading more than others. I'm sure you've seen me mention them before:
1) All Star Superman proves you can tell engaging stories with such an overpowered character.
2) Superman For All Seasons really showcases the Clark side of him. Of anything else, he's the biggest farmboy here. He really struggles with the idea that he can't be everywhere at once or save everyone, no matter how much he tries. It's heartbreaking at times.
3) Superman: Birthright is basically an Ultimate Comics treatment of Superman, modernizing him as if he debuted today. There's some really neat insights, like that he's a vegetarian because he sees the life-force in all living creatures, or that his mother is a huge UFO nut, always researching UFO findings to maybe help her son find where he came from.
4) It's a Bird is a really weird one. It's actually a semi-biographical non-fiction tale about a writer who's been assigned to write the Superman comics. Except he hates Superman. So during his struggle, there are these one or two page breaks that explore parts of Superman from an almost academic viewpoint: his morality, his feeling of being an alien, the S, the bright primary colours, etc. I think of all of them, you might appreciate this one the most.
5) Superman: Secret Identity isn't even about the Clark/Superman of the DC universe. It's supposed to be about a Clark Kent from the real world. He's just a kid in Kansas who had cruel parents who named him Clark. And he's teased relentlessly about it. That is, until he discovers he actually has Superman's powers. Except it's in our world, where he'd be dissected and never be left alone. So the book explores the idea of hiding behind a secret identity and having to come to terms with that. It's the best Superman story without even using the "real" Superman.
1) All Star Superman proves you can tell engaging stories with such an overpowered character.
2) Superman For All Seasons really showcases the Clark side of him. Of anything else, he's the biggest farmboy here. He really struggles with the idea that he can't be everywhere at once or save everyone, no matter how much he tries. It's heartbreaking at times.
3) Superman: Birthright is basically an Ultimate Comics treatment of Superman, modernizing him as if he debuted today. There's some really neat insights, like that he's a vegetarian because he sees the life-force in all living creatures, or that his mother is a huge UFO nut, always researching UFO findings to maybe help her son find where he came from.
4) It's a Bird is a really weird one. It's actually a semi-biographical non-fiction tale about a writer who's been assigned to write the Superman comics. Except he hates Superman. So during his struggle, there are these one or two page breaks that explore parts of Superman from an almost academic viewpoint: his morality, his feeling of being an alien, the S, the bright primary colours, etc. I think of all of them, you might appreciate this one the most.
5) Superman: Secret Identity isn't even about the Clark/Superman of the DC universe. It's supposed to be about a Clark Kent from the real world. He's just a kid in Kansas who had cruel parents who named him Clark. And he's teased relentlessly about it. That is, until he discovers he actually has Superman's powers. Except it's in our world, where he'd be dissected and never be left alone. So the book explores the idea of hiding behind a secret identity and having to come to terms with that. It's the best Superman story without even using the "real" Superman.
I've posted about this before, but a large part of the problem with Dark Knight Rises are enormous problems with the villain's plans and lots of weird contradictions.
1) When Bruce Wayne goes to the doctor to get checked out, we're told he's all beat to shit, implied to be from his crimefighting as Batman. Except we're also told that he stopped doing that almost 8 years ago, pretty much right after Harvey Dent died, when he was still in top form. Nolanverse Batman was reported only active for a little over a year. Apparently retirement is what did all the damage.
2) He uses a powered-exoskeletal leg brace to compensate for his "bad knees" (see point 1) that allows him to kick through a brick wall. This never comes up during his actual fights with Bane or the League of Shadows. Ironically this idea would be later demonstrated brilliantly in Captain America: The Winter Soldier - count the number of times that Cap, Winter Soldier, or Falcon mule kick someone off a ledge, against a wall, or into a turbine or something.
3) The crux of Bane's plan is to bankrupt Bruce Wayne, and to that end, they commit a terror attack on the Gotham Stock Exchange, hack into his accounts, and trade away all his wealth. His lawyer says something to the effect of "Well, there's no way to prove you didn't do it..." Um, what the fuck? The MINUTE that an attack occurred on the stock market, the SEC would have put in an immediate trade stop because obviously all trades were potentially compromised. That is literally part of its job. The lawyer should have said, "Oh, yeah. All trades were considered invalid as of (time attack occurred) and won't restart until (probably start of business the next day). Since your account in particular was targeted, no trades from your portfolio are considered legitimate. We'll get this straightened out."
4) Fusion power cells aren't anything like thermonuclear bombs. A bomb is designed for maximum intensity and minimal duration; a power generator for low intensity over long term. In fact, they don't even use the same materials. Almost all fusion power generators use deuterium (aka Hydrogen-2 or heavy water), while a neutron bomb requires tritium (hydrogen-3). So the "Green Energy" program that Bruce shelved mysteriously because "it could be turned into a bomb", well... pretty much couldn't without taking it apart and starting over from scratch.
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To me, Superman was always boring because he had no personality. Furthermore, I can't relate to him at all. Ultimately, he has internal conflict. YAWN.
Batman on the other hand....
As for the Nolan Batman series, they aren't perfect. I loved the first two and felt the third largely failed to deliver. I ask myself everyday Ledger dying and not using Joker out of respect changed the story-line severely. Albeit loving the first 2, there are large plot holes, a few of which Null just pointed out excellently.
In the end though? Much better than the Batman shit we got in the 90ies and Superman is still boring as fuck.
Batman on the other hand....
As for the Nolan Batman series, they aren't perfect. I loved the first two and felt the third largely failed to deliver. I ask myself everyday Ledger dying and not using Joker out of respect changed the story-line severely. Albeit loving the first 2, there are large plot holes, a few of which Null just pointed out excellently.
In the end though? Much better than the Batman shit we got in the 90ies and Superman is still boring as fuck.
I'd like to point out that even short term use of this power armor in this fashion would basically shatter his bones from the stress unless the entire leg was encased in a shock absorbing metal brace. Especially if he's in as bad of shape as his doctor says. Even WITH the brace, he's going to take some damage.
Great acting and characters definitely. If they had just avoided the Batmobile it would have been great. In the age that it was released there is no way the plethora of US Law enforcement doesn't track down a man with a tank.
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Nolan can't write an ending to save his life, and Dark Knight Rises really highlights this problem not just with its own awful ending, but by being the ending for the "trilogy" I'd call it 2+ hours of well shot garbage, but they couldn't even cut out the second most recognizable building in the NYC skyline when doing establishing shots of their fictional city.
I guess since I'm the old fart around here who actually saw the original Superman movie in theaters (yes, you read that right), I have to defend the genesis of the character.
He was written by two Jewish boys during the height of anti-Semitism and the rise of Fascism. The idea that someone could be a literal ubermensch - "super man" - and overcome those who would do wrong in the world was something that many in the US embraced. The character that arrived on the scene for Detective Comics was the right character at the right time.
Too many characters and stories in the comics at the time were about criminals and anti-heroes. True Crime comics featuring people being killed and the bad guys always winning were what led to the Comics Code Authority - and made Superman (the comic and the character) a breath of fresh air. He didn't believe in killing, and the whole "Truth, Justice, and the AmericanWay" was seen as something revolutionary in the comics.
Yes, the 1950's and 1960's got Supes way out of whack, powers-wise. That led to the first Crisis on Infinite Earths in the 1980's. But, the basics of what makes Superman Superman is based around his background: a Kansas farmboy who believes in hard work, doing what's right, acting justly, and letting democracy rule the day.
A Superman who dispenses justice like in Man of Steel... goes completely and totally against that.
I still contend that there's some idiots in charge at Marvel and DC that hate comic books and are trying to do everything they can to destroy the most beloved characters in both universes - but keep screwing up because fans insist on throwing money at them, no matter how crappy the product.
I don't even think Lex Luthor would buy a plot like that.
He was written by two Jewish boys during the height of anti-Semitism and the rise of Fascism. The idea that someone could be a literal ubermensch - "super man" - and overcome those who would do wrong in the world was something that many in the US embraced. The character that arrived on the scene for Detective Comics was the right character at the right time.
Too many characters and stories in the comics at the time were about criminals and anti-heroes. True Crime comics featuring people being killed and the bad guys always winning were what led to the Comics Code Authority - and made Superman (the comic and the character) a breath of fresh air. He didn't believe in killing, and the whole "Truth, Justice, and the AmericanWay" was seen as something revolutionary in the comics.
Yes, the 1950's and 1960's got Supes way out of whack, powers-wise. That led to the first Crisis on Infinite Earths in the 1980's. But, the basics of what makes Superman Superman is based around his background: a Kansas farmboy who believes in hard work, doing what's right, acting justly, and letting democracy rule the day.
A Superman who dispenses justice like in Man of Steel... goes completely and totally against that.
I still contend that there's some idiots in charge at Marvel and DC that hate comic books and are trying to do everything they can to destroy the most beloved characters in both universes - but keep screwing up because fans insist on throwing money at them, no matter how crappy the product.
I don't even think Lex Luthor would buy a plot like that.
Nope and I won't with that sad sack attitude.
Geez, I guess people with a different opinion isn't welcomed by Nick, excuuuuuuse me.[DOUBLEPOST=1456707944,1456707863][/DOUBLEPOST]I CAN'T WAIT TO WATCH THIS MOVIE NOW
Compare your approach with Mathias'. Mathias seemed willing and open to discussing the character, listening to and respecting others' opinions. Your approach was basically Charlie-like: just looking to get a rise. You don't give two shits about maybe - just maybe - changing your opinion on a character that many people greatly enjoy. Instead, you're just trying to start a flame war.
Because saying Superman is boring or unrelatable? Completely untrue, especially when you not only have several posters on here - not just me - that firmly believe otherwise, but millions of people around the world. There's a reason the character has lasted 75+ years. Just because YOU don't like him doesn't mean other people do. Why do you feel the need to complete shit on and disrespect people for that?
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Dude, you're talking to Jay here, you're not going to change his mind. Being french (canadian) and surly is his thing.
Supes isn't everyone's cup of tea, Nick. I'll always give a person that.
I do think the biggest mistake that DC ever made was trying to turn him into someone other than Superman. Despite that one little Elseworlds comic (which, for some reason, I really enjoyed), Superman is not Batman, and never should be.
I do think the biggest mistake that DC ever made was trying to turn him into someone other than Superman. Despite that one little Elseworlds comic (which, for some reason, I really enjoyed), Superman is not Batman, and never should be.
And that's fine. I don't get why some characters are popular, like Wolverine or the X-Men in general, but I wouldn't flat out say they suck. Hell, Batman's probably not even in my top 20 favourites. But I'm not going to shove it in someone's face. There's respectfully disagreeing or agreeing to disagree (like Mathias did), and then there's just being a dick for no reason.[DOUBLEPOST=1456720029,1456719847][/DOUBLEPOST]
He wasn't this bad a few years ago.
I'll give BvS this: that Batman fight against those gunmen looks really fucking good.
It's called parenthood.
Anyways as I previously stated, to me, Superman is what he is.
Don't expect to have my opinion of him change, respect it and just move on.
I don't expect people to understand me nor do I give a damn about popular opinion of me, at least, on this forum.
However, I stated an opinion to the topic on hand, which is wholly mine and it that's pretty much the point of this forum... is it not?
What I get in return is a negative feedback and "you obviously didn't read my opinion", which should be canon for everyone.
I wasn't even responding to the individual but to the subject on hand, in a thread of the movie to which I was discussing and looking forward to.
Then I get berated by others and be called Charlie-like.
Seriously Halforums?
Enfin, I'm definitely looking forward to the movie, I think Afflect will be a good Batman. Cavill will be a competent Superman.
Anyways as I previously stated, to me, Superman is what he is.
Don't expect to have my opinion of him change, respect it and just move on.
I don't expect people to understand me nor do I give a damn about popular opinion of me, at least, on this forum.
However, I stated an opinion to the topic on hand, which is wholly mine and it that's pretty much the point of this forum... is it not?
What I get in return is a negative feedback and "you obviously didn't read my opinion", which should be canon for everyone.
I wasn't even responding to the individual but to the subject on hand, in a thread of the movie to which I was discussing and looking forward to.
Then I get berated by others and be called Charlie-like.
Seriously Halforums?
Enfin, I'm definitely looking forward to the movie, I think Afflect will be a good Batman. Cavill will be a competent Superman.
Except that opinion basically shat on everything that we were discussing in the most disrespectful, close-minded way possible, blatantly ignoring the things that were discussed. Hence, Charlie-like. We were discussing Superman and you flew in saying basically "Nope! He sucks, he's boring and you can all suck it!" That's the way I took it.
Look, Superman means a lot to me, okay? I got into the comics right at the height of when I was bullied. When my so-called best friend betrayed me for said bullies. When I didn't have anyone. When I had no one to look up to. Yeah, he's some dumb fictional character to most everyone, but to me, he was the exact escapist fantasy I needed at that time. So it honestly bothers me when someone just flat out says he sucks or he's boring or you can't relate to him. Because I relate to him. I felt like such an outsider or an alien myself while almost every other male in my class acted like a complete dick and bullied me. Like Superman, I heavily questioned what was wrong with me and where I fit. Or even just questioning why people needed to be so cruel when I did nothing to them.
And for someone to wholly dismiss the character and not even take the time to read the things I wrote even though they joined into the conversation, anyway? I find that disrespectful. Not to the character, but to me. I don't give a damn if you're a parent or not. Sure, parenthood changes you, but that's not some excuse to jump into a conversation and say those things without at least - AT LEAST - taking the time to read some of the things people have said. Saying "It's called parenthood" like it's some excuse is ridiculous because I know scores of parents who haven't become as untactful and disrespectful as it seems you have over the years.
You don't like the character. Fine. But at the very least consider the manner in which you approach discussing things like this. You want to be excited for the movie? Fine. Don't expect me to share the sentiment.
See one of the big problems in talking about movies is the separation of source material. You can't make a movie for solely the fans of source material, it needs to be for the masses and once created the new movie replaces the source material.
There are tons of great Super Man comics but none of them mean spit since the world of movies doesn't know about them or care.
Like it or not to the movie audience and people in general Superman kills people now and gets into city destroying fist fights. But he did save the earth so he's got that going for him, which is nice.
Also Habs sweep Buds for 2nd straight year, first time in history, so fuck you @Jay
There are tons of great Super Man comics but none of them mean spit since the world of movies doesn't know about them or care.
Like it or not to the movie audience and people in general Superman kills people now and gets into city destroying fist fights. But he did save the earth so he's got that going for him, which is nice.
Also Habs sweep Buds for 2nd straight year, first time in history, so fuck you @Jay
figmentPez
Staff member
All the more reason to be upset that Man of Steel was a good action movie, but a terrible Superman movie.
Imagine if they made a Nancy Drew movie where she didn't solve the crime at the end. Even if it were a great mystery movie, it would be a terrible Nancy Drew (origin) tale. Why use the character at all?
I'd say "While we're at it, let's make a western where the damsel on the train tracks gets run over before she can be saved" but that has either been done, or could be done, as a deconstruction because westerns are so established as a genre that we know how the typical cowboy hero is supposed to act. There must be construction before there can be deconstruction and, as you've noted, the movies don't know spit about the character of Superman. Moreover, many of the comic book heroes in film have been the morally gray heroes that are from a different era than Superman.
I think that's why I am looking forward to BvS, in a way. I agree with Bruce Wayne's skepticism of Superman's intentions. "If there's a 1% chance he's dangerous then that's all the reason he needs. (you can see the allegory building to preemptive wars)". I like that humanity is divided between seeing Superman as a god and some as a false Messiah. All these nihilistic themes I guess are why test audiences are positive with Batman. I like the idea of Superman's faith in humanity being tested. I like that his integrity and morals are being put on the chopping block and tested as well. You gotta give the character credit as to why he even bothers at all. That said, I have no idea how WonderWoman plays into any of this... You guys could be right, it might flop big time. Anyway, Superman was largely popular in the 1950's, where the public outlook on the future was waaaaay more positive. I think that's largely why Man of Steel turned out the way it did. The optimistic Superman - guy humanity should try to aspire to; the guy you admire - doesn't really fit into the current notion of the troubled hero that most others have come to expect. Going back to the trucker example you mention. I 100% agree now, that it was completely out of character for Superman to have fucked up the guy's truck. But a modern audience in 2012 wouldn't find it believable if he didn't retaliate, where a 1955 audience would.
One thing you gotta understand is the overall current zeitgeist in entertainment is bleak, dour, and colour-washed and distopian. Audiences like that because it really reflects the real public perception of where society is heading. There are numerous genres that reflect the notion due to their popularity: zombies are huge right now, as are survivalist movies, cyberpunk, and gritty superheroes. Hell, I bet Suicide Squad will end up bein more popular than BvS. Honestly, I'm hugely surprised at how popular the Marvel flicks are, but I think it's because they don't take themselves very seriously to begin with. Then again Marvel might answer back with Sinister Six (or is that Sony?). Maybe the issue we're all having in these comparisons is we're comparing comedies to dramas?
That's not what I am saying.
I am saying that source material is irrelevant once the material has been established for the masses because what has been produced for the masses supplants it.
Superman has established mass media references and they are what defines it for that media.
While people familiar with the source material argue about how horrible it is that Superman kills now, the general public is shocked that Lois Lane doesn't look like Teri Hatcher.
With BvS we will see a change for Wonder Woman, as she will no longer be defined for the public by Linda Carter.
I am saying that source material is irrelevant once the material has been established for the masses because what has been produced for the masses supplants it.
Superman has established mass media references and they are what defines it for that media.
While people familiar with the source material argue about how horrible it is that Superman kills now, the general public is shocked that Lois Lane doesn't look like Teri Hatcher.
With BvS we will see a change for Wonder Woman, as she will no longer be defined for the public by Linda Carter.
I'd say you're partially right about the bleak entertainment angle, but some of those things, like zombies, feel like leftovers from the earlier 2000's. Networks and studios aren't really known for jumping on trends when they're fresh, just when they've proven to make money. Even Mad Max, while dystopic, wasn't afraid of color or a hopeful ending. As for gritty superheroes, I wouldn't say it's really how all audiences want their heroes, like the recent "gritty reboot" failure of the Fantastic Four. I think the success of the MCU movies show there is an audience that likes hopeful heroes. I feel like the dour, color-washed trend was really more of 2000's attitude, and there has been a shift towards a funnier, brighter hero, in the late 2000's-2010's. Sometimes we don't notice a cultural shift until it already happened.
But like you said, this could also be comparing apples to oranges. I really don't think characters like Batman would work scripted like Iron Man or Captain America. Maybe, in the current state of things, someone like Superman would really work better in a more Marvel-like universe.
EDIT: Would Deadpool be considered bleak or dystopic? I haven't seen it yet, but I got the impression that despite the violence, it was rather up-beat. .....up-beat in that Deadpool-kind-of way. Snarky but not necessarily nihilistic. It didn't look washed-out in the commercials, either, but you guys can correct me if I'm wrong.
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This makes sense in that the movie seems to be taking Batman's point of view on the situation.
Also, Jay's enthusiasm may go down a notch once he realizes Russel Crowe isn't in this one.
Squirrel Girl has been so gross and bad since Now! started that all I want is to see it rebooted with an artist that won't make her look like a rejected JohnK drawing.
Here's my issue with BvS / MoS.
@Jay & @Mathias don't "get" Superman. This isn't a criticism. No character appeals to everyone, and to make Superman appeal to them you have to change his character to the point where he's not Superman anymore. At which point why even call him Superman? Just make him another character or an OC. Nope, much better for Jay & Mathias to shrug their shoulders, say "sorry the Superman character just doesn't interest me" and go off and find something that does appeal to them. Plenty of other media out there.
What's this got to do with the Zack Snyder movies? Snyder doesn't "get" Superman either. In the run up to Man of Steel he talked about his utter bewilderment that people held any attraction to the Christopher Reeves version of the character. If when Marvel were making the Captain America movies they talked to a director who said to make Cap interesting they needed to turn him into a My Country, Right or Wrong type of character they'd have gone "Nope, that's not Cap, you're clearly the wrong fit for this movie. Goodbye". If when Sony were making the Spider-Man movies they talked to a director who said to make Spidey interesting they needed to turn him into a frivolous, do whatever seems funny at the time character like Deadpool they'd (hopefully) go "Nope, that's not Spidey, you're clearly the wrong fit for this movie. Goodbye".
When DC/WB approached Zack Snyder to make Superman movies and he apparently told them to make Supes interesting he needed to use his powers for petty revenge, question if he should even use his powers to help people, and when he does set out to be a hero show a complete disregard for the safety of innocent bystanders near his fights, WB/DC should have said "Nope, that's not Superman, you're clearly the wrong fit for this movie. Goodbye". The fact they didn't just shows how the people that own the character don't "get" him either.
Compare that to the way the makers of Arrow / Flash treat their title characters and, well, their's a reason the Arrowverse is the only currently running DC property that's holding my interest right now.
@Jay & @Mathias don't "get" Superman. This isn't a criticism. No character appeals to everyone, and to make Superman appeal to them you have to change his character to the point where he's not Superman anymore. At which point why even call him Superman? Just make him another character or an OC. Nope, much better for Jay & Mathias to shrug their shoulders, say "sorry the Superman character just doesn't interest me" and go off and find something that does appeal to them. Plenty of other media out there.
What's this got to do with the Zack Snyder movies? Snyder doesn't "get" Superman either. In the run up to Man of Steel he talked about his utter bewilderment that people held any attraction to the Christopher Reeves version of the character. If when Marvel were making the Captain America movies they talked to a director who said to make Cap interesting they needed to turn him into a My Country, Right or Wrong type of character they'd have gone "Nope, that's not Cap, you're clearly the wrong fit for this movie. Goodbye". If when Sony were making the Spider-Man movies they talked to a director who said to make Spidey interesting they needed to turn him into a frivolous, do whatever seems funny at the time character like Deadpool they'd (hopefully) go "Nope, that's not Spidey, you're clearly the wrong fit for this movie. Goodbye".
When DC/WB approached Zack Snyder to make Superman movies and he apparently told them to make Supes interesting he needed to use his powers for petty revenge, question if he should even use his powers to help people, and when he does set out to be a hero show a complete disregard for the safety of innocent bystanders near his fights, WB/DC should have said "Nope, that's not Superman, you're clearly the wrong fit for this movie. Goodbye". The fact they didn't just shows how the people that own the character don't "get" him either.
Compare that to the way the makers of Arrow / Flash treat their title characters and, well, their's a reason the Arrowverse is the only currently running DC property that's holding my interest right now.