Pick up her clothes? I'll have nun of that.
[Funny] xHamster blocks all porn in North Carolina.
- Thread starter Dave
- Start date
Hon, we need to talk.
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Straight sexual predators commit crime, let's punish transgender people who didn't.As callous as it sounds, I need to ask for citations on this one.
As for the other side of the coin...
Man Strips In Women’s locker room, Says New Transgender Rules Make It Legal
Sexual predator jailed after claiming to be ‘transgender’ to assault women in shelter
California Man Dressed as Woman Busted for Videoing in Women’s Bathroom
These are not transgender people, these are predators who would abuse the loophole that is created when you let anyone decide what bathroom they get to use with only themselves as judge.[DOUBLEPOST=1460506366,1460505832][/DOUBLEPOST]
"I'm a trans-ginger. I looked it up. It means I can use the girls' shitter."
Look, if there's some way someone can abuse an otherwise good law, it's clear the only way of recourse is to abolish the law, not to try and close the loopholes or crack down on those abusing it.
I'm being sarcastic for those who would fail to tell.
Which is the entire question. There are a number of people with different perspectives, and no one law is going to satisfy all their needs, so we have to figure out the best balance.
What you see as a "good law" might be viewed as a bad law by someone else with different priorities and life experiences.
For information on successful attempts to close loopholes, see corporations and the government regulation, or just read the IRS tax code.
See also every politician ever.
The origin of the laws around gendered bathrooms seems to be one of equality, actually. Workplaces often had bathrooms for their largely male workforce, and the women had to find other facilities as they entered traditionally male dominated work areas. So legislation was designed that required 50/50 split of male/female restroom facilities, and the capacity of the facilities based on the total workforce, not based on the actual gender split of the workforce. According to slate, that is.
GasBandit
Staff member
This is a highly suspect definition of "punish." Again, not peeing in the room you want to is the firstiest of first world problems.
But as I said, I'm all for making all bathrooms unisex and having done with it. I just don't think it'd go over well. But maintaining "This is the women's room only for women and this is the men's room only for men but you can use whichever one feels right to you" is asinine, and yes, it has already demonstrably enabled "straight sexual predators" (which vastly outnumber the transgendered) to be acting within the law.
If reality offends your sensibilities, so be it. Seems to be more and more of that going around.
A trend I've noticed is places (such as restaurants) having 2 gendered restrooms for mass use (multiple stalls, urinals, etc), and then a single-use "family" restroom that's gender neutral that anyone can use.
Seems like a fairly practical solution to a number of problems: taking your little boy/girl into the restroom of the opposite gender, for instance. Or having a safe single-person restroom to use no matter how you self-identify. Or, as in my case, being pee shy
Seems like a fairly practical solution to a number of problems: taking your little boy/girl into the restroom of the opposite gender, for instance. Or having a safe single-person restroom to use no matter how you self-identify. Or, as in my case, being pee shy
It seems like this could be easily solved in 20-50 years (as was suggested earlier).
1) Amend the legislation @stienman alludes to so that it mandates a minimum number of unisex rest rooms (with a minimum of 1).
2) As the years go by, increase the unisex minimum to 50%, and then higher.
3) Eventually, unisex rest rooms become the norm, and it'll be the weirdo "gender-rigid" (mostly old) people who have to have accommodations made for their special needs.
--Patrick
1) Amend the legislation @stienman alludes to so that it mandates a minimum number of unisex rest rooms (with a minimum of 1).
2) As the years go by, increase the unisex minimum to 50%, and then higher.
3) Eventually, unisex rest rooms become the norm, and it'll be the weirdo "gender-rigid" (mostly old) people who have to have accommodations made for their special needs.
--Patrick
GasBandit
Staff member
Well, the construction/renovation industry would sure thank you a lot.
So you've chosen to assume that unisex restrooms are the correct universal answer, and anyone who disagrees is simply wrong, and needs to be marginalized?
Dave
Staff member
I would think that's about right. But make sure that the stall doors are all sturdy and have locks like real doors, not like the pieces of crap that we have now. And while you think they are marginalized, disagreeing with a question of equality is something that I can get behind marginalizing. What I mean by that is, anti-gay marriage people feel marginalized but since it's a matter of equality I don't give a shit.
Without gender specific restrooms, where will women go to gossip about their dates?
GasBandit
Staff member
Explain to the class how the guardian of three preteen girls objecting to a straight, cisgendered man claiming trans status so that he has the legal right to be in the bathroom with them (because there's no acceptable "auditing" process for transgenderism) is "bigotry" against the transgendered. Or anyone else for that matter.
All you really gotta do is change the signs on the doors of existing construction.
Yes, I believe that people should not be allowed to urinate nor defecate in unisex kitchens, unisex bedrooms, unisex hot tubs, or unisex patios, only in unisex bathrooms.
--Patrick
GasBandit
Staff member
A lot of places don't have the third "family" restroom, and beyond that, changing two large and one small room to two small and one large room definitely would require some wall-knocking.
Well don't tell Ashburner that.
What really puts the lie to "We need a law!" is the fact that this is not a thing we do in our own homes. My wife and I do not have separate restrooms. "Oh but you are married and that's different," I might hear you say. Well, this is the same bathroom we allow to be used by other family members (kids, in-laws), their guests, or even strangers off the street (when the building was still a business). Clearly what I am hearing in this argument is not that we need bathrooms segregated by gender, we need our bathrooms to be separated into "Us" and "Them," where we and ours get to use the "Us" bathroom, and everyone else is forced to use the "Them" bathroom so We don't have to look at Them.
--Patrick
--Patrick
To be fair, home bathrooms tend to be single-occupancy, which does make gender separation kind of moot. When multiple people can use the bathroom at once is when people want segregated options, most often.
...I thought you said you were married and have kids?
Now you say a thing that makes me question this.
--Patrick
Dave
Staff member
My kids are 22 & 25. Maybe when they were little this was a thing, but when they were that age they'd go into whichever PUBLIC restroom we took them into as well.
Only by a gay* man, since this transgendered woman would have to be male to make it past the screening process to enter the mens room.
*or at least bi-curious[DOUBLEPOST=1460668443,1460668334][/DOUBLEPOST]Oh wait. Chuck's not in this thread. Please ignore my lame trolling.
Because you know goddamn well that the people who are passing these laws couldn't care less about that. They're the same people who were opposed to integration when that was socially acceptable. Then they moved on to gay people. Now that thats going out of vogue, they've moved on to trans people. You don't think its a coincidence that this has become a hot-button topic pretty shortly after gay marriage was legalized? As I posted earlier, the number of times what you're describing has happened in the states that have already passed laws allowing trans people to choose their bathroom is negligible. But by all means keep on touting that line.
GasBandit
Staff member
That sure is a whole lot of unsubstantiated non sequitur in one paragraph. And I posted news articles, you posted mediamatters propaganda that did not source its assertions.
By all means, keep on demonizing anybody who disagrees with you. Smiley Face Fascism 2016.
You mean the democrats?[DOUBLEPOST=1460683469,1460683399][/DOUBLEPOST]That's flippant and not worth replying to, of course, but you're strongly showing evidence that you are more interested in dismissing other people's experience and choices than you are in engaging and embracing their differences.
All I have to add to this is if public bathrooms go unisex using the same structure we have now (aka just removing the signs) I will never be able to poop in a public restroom again. I have a weird tick were I have trouble letting loose when another person is able to hear it, and this urge quadruple when a female is nearby. Not saying my tick is more important than Transgender equality, but that if we do go through with it we need a total revamp of how bathrooms are designed (I like the fully closed private stale idea) otherwise the whole system will cause more harm then good.