GasBandit
Staff member
"Libertarians scream, it's an Ayn Rand wet dream, and baby I mean SOAKING. I'm not even joking..."
Where Do You Stand? (2016 Election)
- Thread starter AshburnerX
- Start date
From Vault Tech makers of...
Other side of the coin, when you pass all control over to the "benevolent" government (or its subsidiaries).
But in all seriousness, there was a group of libertarians who wanted to make an artificial atoll in international waters off the California Coast (edit: I think it was called the Seasteading Institute, and one of the investors was Peter Theil, cofounder of PayPal), there's another group of extremely wealthy people who have taken up permanent residence on an opulent luxury cruise liner called "The World", and of course, we can't forget the complete and utter clusterfuck that was Gault's Gulch, Chile.
GasBandit
Staff member
True enough - but if we're being fair, there's plenty of failed experiments in communism and socialism as well. Most notably the USSR
which was a fair bit more of a disaster for millions upon millions of people, and kind of a threat to the world in general.Except in practice the USSR was a totalitarian nationalist state - industry was run by the state, agriculture was run on collectives, but the state was controlled by a small political elite that invested far too much of their GDP into the military and skimmed the majority of what was left for themselves. That's very different from democratic socialism, which retains private ownership and management of industry, with taxation to provide benefit to all levels of society: infrastructure, utilities, education, healthcare, etc - the sort of thing that all citizens require.True enough - but if we're being fair, there's plenty of failed experiments in communism and socialism as well. Most notably the USSR
GasBandit
Staff member
Or in other words, "It's just never been done right." Right?
... that we're really sure this time that the state won't be "controlled by a small political elite (SNIP, anything possible) skimmed the majority of what was left for themselves."
The counterargument to your point is the whole basis of less government Null. If nobody has that level of control, the less you can be screwed over in general. The more powerful the players, the more the individual and/or small player can get screwed over. The main function of government in the economy In My Opinion is to break up the biggest players, continually. The closer you get to the top, the greater the probability (approaching certainty) that you be broken up and forced to compete with your former pieces (this is, for example, the reason breaking up AT&T was done WRONG as it turned one big monopoly into a bunch of smaller ones, not promoting competition between them).
Anything with enough power to ruin lives will be used to ruin lives.
...so long as it benefits the ones doing the ruining, otherwise there's no incentive*.
This almost makes government sound like an institutionalized version of "Button, Button."
--Patrick
*and ensuring there's no incentive is the really tricky part of designing a successful system of government.
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I think a better example would be something line Jonestown, which went from "hippie religious commune" to "psycho murder/suicide cult camp" in record time.True enough - but if we're being fair, there's plenty of failed experiments in communism and socialism as well. Most notably the USSR
Really, I think the lesson we're all learning here is that removing yourself from society to rebuild society just generally doesn't work.
GasBandit
Staff member
Well, it worked for America. The problem is we've run out of reasonably priced frontiers to expand into.
Well, it worked for america for a couple hundred years anyway.
LOL! Tell that to the people who were already living here!
You call it genocide, they call it Manifest Destiny, potato, potahtoLOL! Tell that to the people who were already living here!
And most of Western Europe is a testament how that fails, too. Slowly, under a bunch of internal and external pressures, unmanageable debt, and institutionalized selfishness. Sadly. It's still the best we've got, I think, but it's not without its issues.
Canadian Perspective on Mrs. Clinton's email servers: U.S. report shreds Clinton’s secret server defence
It wasn't authorized, it was against the rules when it happened (rules were from 2005, obviously before her tenure by at least 3 years), and at least two people who raised questions were told to "shut up" about it.
There's a lot more. It's in the "very not good" category.
It wasn't authorized, it was against the rules when it happened (rules were from 2005, obviously before her tenure by at least 3 years), and at least two people who raised questions were told to "shut up" about it.
There's a lot more. It's in the "very not good" category.
TIL the book It Can't Happen Here.
And now I'm wondering why I haven't seen it referred to more frequently, what with Trump's current rhetoric.
And now I'm wondering why I haven't seen it referred to more frequently, what with Trump's current rhetoric.
--Patrick
Federal Judge relaxes protest rules set by Cleveland for Republican Convention.
It's gonna be be SHIT STORM OF THE CENTURY.
It's gonna be be SHIT STORM OF THE CENTURY.
GasBandit
Staff member
Ain't no violence like "democrats at a republican event" violence.
It was actually on behalf of a Trump-supporting protest group that the ACLU sued to get this change made. Along with whatever Organize Ohio is. Plus a homeless advocacy group because the rules originally banned people living in the zone from carrying bottles and stuff.
GasBandit
Staff member
Watch what happens.
The best way to protect the GOP Convention is to make it an open carry event.
Saw my first Trump bumper sticker while I was driving today.
It was in the back window of a brown & tan late 80's Chevy Silverado pickup being driven by a white male in his mid to late 60's wearing glasses and a white button-up shirt.
...soooo I guess I'm still waiting for my preconceptions to be challenged.
--Patrick
It was in the back window of a brown & tan late 80's Chevy Silverado pickup being driven by a white male in his mid to late 60's wearing glasses and a white button-up shirt.
...soooo I guess I'm still waiting for my preconceptions to be challenged.
--Patrick
Anecdotally, the one Chinese college classmate (originally from Hong Kong) I had is an ardent Trump supporter. Here are some excerpts from a conversation we had in January (my responses are mostly removed, as they dilute the delicious quotes):
He can't vote (yet), but he's quite politically active.
He can't vote (yet), but he's quite politically active.
GasBandit
Staff member
GasBandit
Staff member
Well, we've been doing that for quite a while now, without a declared war...
That doesn't make it anti-war, and you know goddamn well that the point of that was given Drumpf's statements, it's absurd to consider him anti-war, as Denbrought's example seems to.
Side note: Apparently the RNC is living up to the prediction that it would be the SHITSHOW of the CENTURY. Though of course we're not far into the century.
http://www.politicususa.com/2016/07/18/republican-convention-falls-starts-kasich-rips-trumpr.html
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