Depression

[fade]

So I went to the doctor at the urging of my wife. I was diagnosed with "severe depression" and am trying some antidepressants and therapy. I should say I do not like the idea of medication. I don't even feel like anything is wrong. I just went along.

The thing is I want to talk to my wife about next steps with our marriage, whether that be counseling or something more drastic (I think most of you probably knew that was me in the "wishing for divorce" thread, and I don't care about anonymity anymore). However, she refuses until I "help myself". I find this a bit insulting, as the insinuation is that the only way something is broken in this marriage is if something is broken in me. I also feel like I'm being held hostage to someone else's standard of health. However, I went along. I find the whole thing irritating, because I know what's wrong. I told this to my wife about 1000 times. Therapy is for when you don't know the root cause. I do. It's this marriage. Me treating me feels like putting a bandaid on an amputation, because it's the marriage difficulty causing the depression, not the other way around.

Anyway, I'm trying some things.

 

[Denbrought]

Best of luck. Do not medicate yourself unless it results in a better you. This can be hard to gauge while medicated. It sounds like your wife is playing a very unhealthy avoidance game.

(As I'm sure you've been told so no idea why I'm re-emphasizing here) Antidepressants can seriously mess up your general mental state, so try to play "brain passenger" very often over the next month, and try to compare/contrast your pre-meds mental state, your desired mental state, and your actual one. You might want your wife (or a close person that you actually trust and see often) to spot/act-as-confidant for you, in case you forget a habit (like eating) or develop a new one (that is undesirable).

 

[strawman]

I don't know, Fade. On one hand I want to slap you silly. On the other I want to hug you and let you know that things can get better. Not that they will, but that they can. On the third hand I want to throw up my three hands and say, "I could say/do anything and it won't make one whit of difference, except perhaps as a selfish act in re-enforcing my own drives and motivations."

I don't know. I've written, and re-written, and deleted thousands of words here trying to find a path of conversation that you might actually find useful, but I find myself at a loss. And now I've just deleted another missive.

Look. Your depression is absolutely controlling your interpretation of people and life around you, and you cannot trust your perception until the depression is under control. You must resolve the depression before you make any life altering decisions.

You must resolve the depression before you make any life altering decisions.

You must resolve your depression before you make any life altering decisions.

It will take years. This isn't something you get diagnosed with, get drugs and therapy, and suddenly are not depressed after a few months of work. This isn't something that once resolved you don't have to revisit it yearly. Like a cancer patient in remission, you must go back at least once a year and evaluate and adjust everything.

You've been depressed most of your life. You've found another person - your wife - who cares about you enough to push you in the direction that I think you know you need to go. While I wouldn't suggest you continue to be passive - you should be taking an active role in your treatment - I would suggest that you should believe she's trying to help you get to a better place and that you should place your trust in her for awhile. If you find you can't do that, then take charge and find a doctor you trust, and a friend you trust, and deal with your depression. At the moment, though, you've got a pretty easy path if you don't mind letting someone else drive for awhile. Nevertheless, take charge of your care, and actively work to make appointments, follow the doctor's orders, and read, study, and learn what you can about your condition. Find a depression support group. Encourage your wife to attend a depression support group.

I suppose it's possible, as you've suggested, that the marriage and relationship with your wife is the primary cause of your depression. I find it highly unlikely, but it's possible. If that's the case, then unless the marriage is abusive it's worth resolving the depression while you still have an unimaginably huge support system already built in before changing that situation. Because there's a very, very, very good chance that if you leave your depression will hang on well past the divorce and without a support system, and with the requirement that you maintain a relationship if only for the children, you will spiral into a mush worse situation. Resolve the depression first, then, and only then, will you have a clear view regarding how useful the marriage is to you or not.

Until then, hopefully you understand, even if you don't feel, that fixing the depression is your highest priority, and everything else can wait.

But I really don't know. I can only guess, and this is my best guess given limited information.

I really hope and want the best for you.

 

[Cajungal]

Depression confuses me sometimes. You have the people who feel depressed because of a really rough patch and need to make serious life changes, and then you have people for whom medication is necessary and it's not as simple as changing some things--although it's believed to help.

Did the doctor say you definitely need meds?

I hope that you can get to the bottom of this somehow. It must be frustrating to not have your concerns addressed for so long. I know you've been thinking about this--and trying to communicate your feelings--for a while.

 

[Denbrought]

Depression confuses me sometimes. You have the people who feel depressed because of a really rough patch and need to make serious life changes, and then you have people for whom medication is necessary and it's not as simple as changing some things--although it's believed to help.

Language is imperfect. There's depression as in the type of mood, which can be caused by many things, and there's depression as in the commonplace name for a series of mental illnesses that cause a depressive mood as a major or minor trait of said illness.

 

[Cajungal]

Yeah, I'm just wondering if a doctor ever told someone they were depressed (clinically) when what's really happening is more of a situational, temporary depression.

 

[Ravenpoe]

I can't give any insight on the marriage part. I've never been married, and at this stage in my wife I don't particularly want to be married. But I can speak on depression. I've been there, the "I can't be depressed... I don't feel depressed" part, because I really never did consider myself depressed. I certainly wasn't sad, and the signs and symptoms of depression I was experiencing I thought were simply normal, because I'd never known how to feel any differently. But I will say that you owe it to yourself to try the meds. Give it a month or two, keep a journal of your mental state, write everything down. Talk with your therapist, trust me, you won't be the first person to ever say "but I don't feel depressed" to them, and they will have better insight than I on how to approach and explore that.


Will it save your marriage? I don't know, probably not. But you'll be in a much better state to take control of your life, and you'll come out the other side better for it. And I know that if you're anything like me, being told you can take control of your life will sound almost insulting, you're already in control of your life. And yes, you absolutely are. But if we use driving as a metaphor, you're behind the wheel, but there's a second half of the map that you didn't even know was there.


But whatever you do, I also suggest you share. Either to us here on the forum, or to a private support group, or whatever you're most comfortable with. Den already mentioned brain passenger, and you strike me as the kind of person that can evaluate things logically, and realize that while you find the treatment that's right for you, there will be times when you can't fully trust your own emotional judgment, and in those cases feedback from outside your own head is a huge help.


And if you do choose to share about it here, I promise to keep "fade doesn't like" memes to a minimum. Once per thread, max.

 

[fade]

I suppose it's possible, as you've suggested, that the marriage and relationship with your wife is the primary cause of your depression. I find it highly unlikely, but it's possible. .

I'm not really certain where you're making this claim from. I am me, and I know when the depression struck and can track the patterns of behavior that led to it. Not every relationship is supportive or golden.

Depression confuses me sometimes. You have the people who feel depressed because of a really rough patch and need to make serious life changes, and then you have people for whom medication is necessary and it's not as simple as changing some things--although it's believed to help.

Did the doctor say you definitely need meds?

I hope that you can get to the bottom of this somehow. It must be frustrating to not have your concerns addressed for so long. I know you've been thinking about this--and trying to communicate your feelings--for a while.

This is what I tried to discuss with my wife, but the discussion went nowhere. When she is sure she is right about something, there is no discussion. Just an infuriating period of her saying things like, "Okay", and "I hear what you're saying" ending with her repeating her initial assessment as correct.

I have tried to tell her that what she sees is a manifestation of extreme frustration rather than depression. Most of the same symptoms that led the doctor to diagnose depression I think can be attributed to plain old mounting frustration.

 

[Cheesy1]

I've had depression since childhood, and I've known that all too well. I've tried meds at different points, and they've made me "not sad" but I've not really felt happy, just "there". And the last time there were some harsh physical side effects. Not medicated at the moment, and it's a daily struggle. But I don't feel "artificially happy."

 

[strawman]

I know when the depression struck and can track the patterns of behavior that led to it.

I honestly believe you are living in denial, but I won't bother you any further about it. I do hope you find that happiness you're looking for.

 

[fade]

See, I don't get where you are making that claim from though. I know when I was happier, and when I ceased to be. I know what triggers those feeling every time it happens. Nothing else in my life bothers me beyond normal amounts. Job is good, kids are good, physical health is good. The only thing I am unhappy about is being a ghost in my own house. Being left out of family things constantly by my wife. Being marginalized in the major decisions. My kids have more say in major family decisions than I do. They go off on trips and make plans without me all the time. I distinctly remember this growing from a needle to a dagger to a sword, and getting more and more miserable about it. I try constant communication about it, and she literally does not say anything back. I mean, not a word. Every emotional complaint I make has been met with the retort that it's my problem and I need to change.

 

[strawman]

Nevermind.

 

[Ravenpoe]

I'd like to point out that this is not an either/or scenario. It's not "either I'm unhappy with my marriage, or I'm suffering from clinical depression." It could very well be both. They could be unrelated. But I still encourage you to explore depression treatment just to see where it goes.

 

[fade]

I have every intention to see the treatment through, and I will not treat it as a joke or a checkbox.

Let me step back for a second. I don't doubt that there is depression as well. There always has been. My contention is that I don't think this is the cause of the things my wife is calling attention to and wants taken care of. Maybe that's the part that I forgot to say. These are--even in her words as an external observer--new behaviors from me. Grumpiness and anger, for example. No doubt any depression does not help, but it's also very possible that I'm not crazy, and that these marriage issues are actually happening, and correlate to the onset of those things my wife doesn't like.

 

[fade]

All I know is that my observations should not be invalidated because I see them colored through the filter of depression. Especially objective, non-opinion observations.

 

[Cajungal]

All I know is that my observations should not be invalidated because I see them colored through the filter of depression. Especially objective, non-opinion observations.

Paired with the frustration of someone saying they "hear" you when they don't.

 

[Anonymous]

The worst kind of depression is when you can't see a light at the end of the tunnel - and neither can anyone else around you.

 

[PatrThom]

The worst kind of depression is when you can't see a light at the end of the tunnel - and neither can anyone else around you.

I would counter (and I came here to say this BEFORE reading the big posts above) that it is also horrible to know exactly what it is that you need in order to pull out of your depression, yet you are unable/not allowed to have it.

--Patrick

 

[Anonymous]

That too.

 

[ScytheRexx]

I would counter (and I came here to say this BEFORE reading the big posts above) that it is also horrible to know exactly what it is that you need in order to pull out of your depression, yet you are unable/not allowed to have it.

Yes, this is the worst.

I have been suffering from depression myself, and even though I know what I have to do to get out of it, I can't, because I have responsibilities to my wife and children that sit as the highest part of the totem pole that is my life. As such, I had to cut back on all my dreams and hobbies and personal happiness (my wife and kids fill part of this need, but they can't fill the entire void.) I now go every day more stressed and out of touch with myself then the last, and while I know how to dig myself out of it, I don't think my wife would ever accept it.

 

[Shakey]

My personal 2 cents. You may think you know what you need, but if it is truly depression that you have, it's most likely not. It could be that you're feeling lonely and all you need is someone to be with and it will be better. It could be that you don't have time for the things that used to make you happy, and if you could just do them again it would be better. Or that the people around you are causing negativity that is making you depressed, and you just need to be away from them.

Getting what you think you need, won't usually change anything, and can even make it worse. Depression is a medical condition, and should be treated like one. And just because you started feeling depressed around the time that X happened, doesn't mean that is what the source of it is.

I know I have felt really low ever since our baby was born. I get the urge to dissappear, and look back at when I was single and could go backpacking alone whenever I wanted to and wish I could have that again. That doesn't mean that he's the problem, and he isn't. It's the lack of sleep, stress of working on our addition, and having some close family members pass away recently. I forget about how lonely I really was back when I was single. I was a mess. When I really think about my life now, I wouldn't trade it for anything. Even if it has it's bad times seeing the family I have now is worth it.

I guess the point of this rambling mess is that it's easy to lose focus of the important things in your life when depression takes hold. You blame the big things in your life, and want to go back to what's familiar and easy. That's not usually the best way out though. Get medical help and find someone to talk to.

 

[PatrThom]

Yes, this is the worst.

Get medical help and find someone to talk to.

While I agree that isolation is a helpful tool, what I was mainly referring to is the lack of funds to seek treatment, the lack of availability of that treatment, and the lack of time to seek said treatment, among others.
Being hungry and penniless is one thing. Being hungry and penniless while staring through the window in front of the closed bakery is something else entirely.

--Patrick

 

[fade]

Well, I've been taking medication. I don't know how much it's helping the depression, but it did have a beneficial side effect. My knees have been in fairly bad pain for years, though there doesn't seem to be anything physically wrong with them. They stopped hurting. Completely.

On the other hand, the negative side effects are pretty gross. General discomfort, nausea, etc. I read about side effects before I started, but I didn't expect to have any. Guess I was wrong.

 

[Bubble181]

Personal experience says the physical side effects are worst in the beginning and they get slightly better. Good luck.

 

[Denbrought]

Thanks for updating us, please keep doing so. We care.

Personal experience says the physical side effects are worst in the beginning and they get slightly better. Good luck.

Opposite experience here, but the plural of anecdote isn't data.

 

[GasBandit]

the plural of anecdote isn't data.

I am stealing the fuck out of that line.

 

[PatrThom]

I am stealing the fuck out of that line.

Search function says it's the first time that line's been used on the forum.

--Patrick

 

[Denbrought]

I forget where I stole it from, but I know I didn't come up with it. It's a useful thought to keep handy.

 

[Squidleybits]

Well, I've been taking medication. I don't know how much it's helping the depression, but it did have a beneficial side effect. My knees have been in fairly bad pain for years, though there doesn't seem to be anything physically wrong with them. They stopped hurting. Completely.

On the other hand, the negative side effects are pretty gross. General discomfort, nausea, etc. I read about side effects before I started, but I didn't expect to have any. Guess I was wrong.

My pain specialist has prescribed low dose anti depressants on occasion. In addition to their primary function, they also apparently alter how your brain interprets pain.

 

[fade]

My pain specialist has prescribed low dose anti depressants on occasion. In addition to their primary function, they also apparently alter how your brain interprets pain.

I have been to doctors several times about my knees, and their answer is usually that no one really knows what causes most knee pain. Often, there's no clear physical damage, though anti-inflammatories and braces seem to help. The recommendation is usually to stop martial arts, which are notoriously bad on joints, but that ain't happening. So this is a welcome side effect.

 

[Hailey Knight]

I just want to throw in that therapy isn't just about finding the cause of the problem. That's looking at it from a more mathematical angle. Therapy/counseling is also about behavior approaches, adjustment, introspection. Example, my wife knows her problems stem from her abusive parents, but knowing that isn't really enough. She needs counseling because the issues from that don't go away, even though she's not around her parents anymore. Likewise, let's say your marriage and homelife is the source of this? Even if those problems were gone, you might still need therapy to help deal with the effect that's had on you, its aftermath.

Best of luck, Fade.

 

[fade]

Side effects have mostly abated, but I have found that exercising heavily makes the side effects come back with a vengeance. Not sure why. Hopefully that will calm.

 

[PatrThom]

Side effects have mostly abated, but I have found that exercising heavily makes the side effects come back with a vengeance. Not sure why. Hopefully that will calm.

Are they fat-soluble? Have you been unintentionally stockpiling them in your adipose tissue? Does the dehydration of exercise cause the medication concentration in your system to increase?

--Patrick

 

[fade]

I assumed it was something along these lines as well, but I have not looked into the mechanism.

 

[fade]

So, I haven't updated this in a while. I actually figured out the cause of the side effects, and I haven't experienced them in a long time. I accidentally let one of the pills dissolve in my mouth, and it was rather uncomfortable. It was kind of burning my mouth. I put 2 and 2 together and realized I'd been dry-swallowing the pills, and they were getting most of the way down and doing the same thing in my throat. I realized this because the discomfort was similar. On another hand, how the hell can that be good for your body?

Anyway, the pills seem to be working. Hasn't changed the way I feel about the original issues at all, but I guess it's a start.