[Movies] The DC Cinematic Universe - The David Zazlav Dumpster Fire.

fade

fade

Staff member
Charlie Don't Surf said:
It's just. I dunno, some weird semantic denial of reality I see on y'alls side. If his name is Lex Luthor and he hates Superman, he's a take on Lex Luthor? Like you can call it bad and all the other things, but you can't say it doesn't exist.

I can more honestly see this reaction to Jimmy Olsen. I haven't seen the 3 hour take, but isn't he still just a random CIA agent undercover in the middle east? And not even Superman/Clark's friend?
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This is not counter to anything I said. Writers are of course free to do what they want. And I'm free to feel that this crosses the line of interpretation into a new character who happens to share a name. I think that neither denies reality, nor is a semantic detail. It's a discussion on the importance of established character histories vs. interpretation. What qualifies as interpretation? Can he love Superman and still be Luthor? Can we call him Francis Figbottom and say he's the same character? Where's the line? Or to ask another question (the way I did above), what's the point of calling him Luthor if your interpretation is so far off the established history? Why use the Luthor name to represent an interpretation that closely matches many other established DC villains more closely?

It's all discussions and opinions, man.
 
ThatNickGuy

ThatNickGuy

bhamv3 said:
If they wanted a kooky, unpredictable Superman antagonist, they could've just gone with Mxyzptlk.

Actually... I kinda wanna see how the grimdark DC cinematic universe would handle Mxyzptlk.
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Alan Moore grim-darked him in Whatever Happened to the Man of Tomorrow.
 
Ravenpoe

Ravenpoe

Charlie Don't Surf said:
It's just. I dunno, some weird semantic denial of reality I see on y'alls side. If his name is Lex Luthor and he hates Superman, he's a take on Lex Luthor? Like you can call it bad and all the other things, but you can't say it doesn't exist.

I can more honestly see this reaction to Jimmy Olsen. I haven't seen the 3 hour take, but isn't he still just a random CIA agent undercover in the middle east? And not even Superman/Clark's friend?
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I dunno, even the movie itself makes sure to point out this isn't Lex Luthor, but instead Lex Luthor Jr, with Eisenberg going out of his way to explain his father building the company.
 
Hailey Knight

Hailey Knight

Ravenpoe said:
I dunno, even the movie itself makes sure to point out this isn't Lex Luthor, but instead Lex Luthor Jr, with Eisenberg going out of his way to explain his father building the company.
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I was coming in to say that, and it goes directly to what Fade said. They not only changed him so much that it's practically a new character, they went ahead and changed it so he is a new character. Similar in regards to Godzilla 1998, changed the character so much that years later they renamed it Zilla so it is a new character.

Charlie Don't Surf said:
It's just. I dunno, some weird semantic denial of reality I see on y'alls side. If his name is Lex Luthor and he hates Superman, he's a take on Lex Luthor? Like you can call it bad and all the other things, but you can't say it doesn't exist.
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Logically, yes? But also logically, there have been robots/clones called Lex Luthor who hate Superman and are not Lex Luthor. In this case, it's implied to be the son of the actual Lex Luthor. So same name, hates Superman, but a generation later.

I can more honestly see this reaction to Jimmy Olsen. I haven't seen the 3 hour take, but isn't he still just a random CIA agent undercover in the middle east? And not even Superman/Clark's friend?
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That is what happened, and you're right, but I think the difference is that it's only in the ultimate edition and he's only in the movie for a couple minutes.
 
Ravenpoe

Ravenpoe

Zero Esc said:
That is what happened, and you're right, but I think the difference is that it's only in the ultimate edition and he's only in the movie for a couple minutes.
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I'm willing to bet they cut that because of bad test reaction, so in the theatrical cut it was no longer Jimmy.
 
Hailey Knight

Hailey Knight

Ravenpoe said:
I'm willing to bet they cut that because of bad test reaction, so in the theatrical cut it was no longer Jimmy.
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It's hard to say just because of how much footage was cut out of the movie. They were intent on a certain run time for the theatrical release and cut every corner they could think of to get there. Ultimately it adds nothing to the story.
 
Mathias

Mathias

Zero Esc said:
I was coming in to say that, and it goes directly to what Fade said. They not only changed him so much that it's practically a new character, they went ahead and changed it so he is a new character. Similar in regards to Godzilla 1998, changed the character so much that years later they renamed it Zilla so it is a new character.



Logically, yes? But also logically, there have been robots/clones called Lex Luthor who hate Superman and are not Lex Luthor. In this case, it's implied to be the son of the actual Lex Luthor. So same name, hates Superman, but a generation later.



That is what happened, and you're right, but I think the difference is that it's only in the ultimate edition and he's only in the movie for a couple minutes.
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I think the blurred line on this Lex is that typically Lex Luthor's main drive is pure Capitalist driven POWER! He literally wants to rule the world That's why he despises Superman. Superman represents an entire paradigm shift that focuses on bringing out the good in humanity that threatens everything Luthor is and stands for. Eisenberg's Luthor has none of those characteristics. He's just nuts. Granted Luthor's always been a little mad, but Eisenberg's performance suggests something similar to that of the Joker from Nolan's Batman - an agent of chaos.

That's not really Luthor. That's Joker.
 
Hailey Knight

Hailey Knight

Mathias said:
I think the blurred line on this Lex is that typically Lex Luthor's main drive is pure Capitalist driven POWER! He literally wants to rule the world That's why he despises Superman. Superman represents an entire paradigm shift that focuses on bringing out the good in humanity that threatens everything Luthor is and stands for. Eisenberg's Luthor has none of those characteristics. He's just nuts. Granted Luthor's always been a little mad, but Eisenberg's performance suggests something similar to that of the Joker from Nolan's Batman - an agent of chaos.

That's not really Luthor. That's Joker.
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Exactly. In other continuities, Lex Luthor has become President of the United States, and that's believable. I couldn't see Lex Jr accomplishing that. In the comics right now, an explosion destroys a block of Metropolis, and Lex in despair shouts "My city!" Not the kind of Lex who'd intentionally unleash a monster to destroy it; because he sees Metropolis as his possession.

But imagine Luthor Sr. in the DC movies is like in every other thing, and has a kid like Eisenberg's Lex Jr? No wonder he doesn't show up here; he's probably hiding in a cave out of shame.
 
ThatNickGuy

ThatNickGuy

From the Superman Animated Series:
"Oh, I'm sorry. I already have a window washer. *Superman says nothing* Ooh, the silent treatment, eh? Well, I don't know what you thought you heard out there, but I know what you can prove...and it's nothing.

You see, Superman, I own Metropolis. My technology built it, my will keeps it going, and nearly two-thirds of its people work for me, whether they know it or not. Even you have to admit, it's a model of efficiency. And I thought, why limit myself to just one city? A being with your abilities could be very useful to me on a, shall we say, GLOBAL scale? Why don't you float on in and we can discuss it."

(Superman doesn't respond.)

"SAY SOMETHING!" *throws something on his desk at him*
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This, in my mind, PERFECTLY encapsulates everything about Lex Luthor. His superpower isn't his brilliance or his money, it's his EGO. Look how glib he is at first. He doesn't care if Superman heard his "evil plan," because he can't prove anything. When Superman doesn't say anything, he keeps talking. Because he loves hearing himself talk. He firmly believes that he's entitled to Metropolis because of all he's done for it. He doesn't care about the people, only that most of them work for him. They're all disposable pawns for him to use to feed his own ego.

And then this flying freak comes in and starts messing up with that model of efficiency! He's the one thing that Luthor can't control and that drives him absolutely mad. He can make any excuse in the world, like that Superman is hindering humanity's progress or making us look bad, but no. It's all about how he makes LUTHOR look bad.

That he immediately gets angry when Superman not only doesn't put up with his shit and actually NO-SELLS his entire speech by ignoring him? That shows just how fragile Luthor's ego is. It's so brilliantly written.
 
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Hailey Knight

Hailey Knight

And it doesn't have to be perfect on-point Lex Luthor either. There are gradients with any character. But Jr didn't manage that.

So, who do we think is Lex Jr's mom?
 
fade

fade

Staff member
I'm all for reinterpretations. Most of the good superhero films reinterpret the characters from their comic book origins. Sometimes heavily. But the good ones still keep the bones.
 
Celt Z

Celt Z

filmfanatic said:
Here is the trailer for Wonder Woman.

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I've watched this 5 times already, but I just came here to say EEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!! :D:D:D:D:D

(I could do with the Snyder-slow-downs, but color! Real color!)[DOUBLEPOST=1469304920,1469304573][/DOUBLEPOST]Not as psyched as Wonder Woman, but here's some Justice League:
 
Sara_2814

Sara_2814

Celt Z said:
I've watched this 5 times already, but I just came here to say EEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!! :D:D:D:D:D

(I could do with the Snyder-slow-downs, but color! Real color!)[DOUBLEPOST=1469304920,1469304573][/DOUBLEPOST]Not as psyched as Wonder Woman, but here's some Justice League:
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I actually want to see both of those. Maybe DC really has gotten a clue about the GrimDark shit?
 
Celt Z

Celt Z

Sara_2814 said:
I actually want to see both of those. Maybe DC really has gotten a clue about the GrimDark shit?
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Justice League is still looking a little brown/gray/dark for my tastes, but Snarky Batman is winning me over. I think it's nice to see him so unwooden.
 
CynicismKills

CynicismKills

I'm pretty well-sold on Ezra Miller Flash, I think. Not so sure about his weird plastic suit, but it's still early.

Also, this might be the most intimidating Aquaman I've seen, like, ever.

Also also, Wonder Woman looks pretty promising! I hope they've learned it doesn't all need to be so dour and grim.
 
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