Where Do You Stand? (2016 Election)
- Thread starter AshburnerX
- Start date
Are we talking about the Democratic, Republican, or another party?
Have you tried reading the preceding posts?Are we talking about the Democratic, Republican, or another party?
I guess I kinda got my hopes up that you had more to offer. I regret trying to engage you in a discussion about it.I have, I was joking because this - or the reverse - pretty much applies to all party programs, not only to the Libertarian one
Dave
Staff member
Well, first I'm at work and don't really have time to parse everything out, but I'll put in some bullet points of stupidity.
- Complete deregulation of all businesses. Because we know that when we deregulate the businesses act in the public's behalf. And the employees are treated so well in deregulated industries. But hey, no government intervention is good, right?
- Elimination of the IRS and all social security and income taxes. But that's okay because there won't need to be any money coming in because we're...
- Eliminate all social safety nets. Rely on private donors to fund anything the poor need from charities. And give a 1-to-1 tax credit for people who give to charity. Wait, what? So if someone makes a shitload of money, pays no income tax, etc. suddenly gets a break from OTHER taxes as well? And who is going to figure out what they really owe or give them this benefit? The IRS has been abolished, if you remember.
- Privatize schooling. Yeah, this is a good idea. Make sure only the wealthy get educated.
- International Trade and the Military. This one boggles my mind. Strict isolationism for the military yet international trade agreements.
Anyone who professes to follow the libertarian platform needs to have their heads examined and go to the doctor to get a shot of empathy because it's the most self-absorbed and selfish platform I've ever seen. And that includes the terrible republican platform.
GasBandit
Staff member
Anyone who professes to follow the socialist platform is a stunted childmind who can't countenance things like actual freedom and the personal responsibility it entails, it's the most selfish and myopic platform the world has ever seen, and only works in places because, up until now, they had a superpower with an actual system that works foot the bill for all their defense.
Dave
Staff member
You're right, it's completely selfish to want to help people.
GasBandit
Staff member
Until the leftists and crony capitalists broke it by making sure people who couldn't afford a house were sold houses (and screaming racism constantly every time a republican brought up "hey maybe this isn't such a good idea"), this nation's economy had the highest economic mobility the world had ever seen, and more new millionaires were being created every year than the previous. This economic quagmire in which we currently find ourselves is the direct result of destructive leftist policies which stem from a frothing class envy because they can't be bothered to work for themselves - or from politicians who want to enrich themselves by exploiting those same.
Short version: Liberalism ruined America, libertarianism is what built it in the first place.[DOUBLEPOST=1469115224,1469115083][/DOUBLEPOST]
The war on poverty has spent trillions upon trillions since LBJ, and even before 2008 there were still the exact same number percentage of people in poverty.
Short version: Liberalism ruined America, libertarianism is what built it in the first place.[DOUBLEPOST=1469115224,1469115083][/DOUBLEPOST]
You want to help people using methods that never work and are paid for by other people's money. That's reprehensible.You're right, it's completely selfish to want to help people.
The war on poverty has spent trillions upon trillions since LBJ, and even before 2008 there were still the exact same number percentage of people in poverty.
I think WWII had a big hand in it, which involved a lot of government money and direction in conjunction with businesses. Prior to WWII, it may have been a libertarian utopia but the U.S. wasn't really a wealthy superpower like it was post WWII.
1.) protection against mass poverty like the great depression.
2.) hasn't the definition of poverty changed? I seem to recall that the present definition of poverty is one that some hardline conservatives feel does not reflect actual poverty as one might envision it.
GasBandit
Staff member
WWII did kick things into overdrive, granted, but so does every war, and that was the biggest one there ever was - and we were on the winning side and had no battles on our soil. But the libertarian ideology and ethic that was instilled in americans as a natural matter of course had a lot to do with it, too. Additionally, FDR's "new deal," the beginning of the death of the republic, extended the Great Depression by seven years. Much like the Obama's administration extended the economic suffering of americans today, and cook the numbers to make it look like everything's better. The fact of the matter is the American dream is dead, and those that thought they were entitled to comfort without effort are those that killed it.
Dave
Staff member
And this is why I don't post here often. I don't have the energy to deal with bullshit. Libertarianism built the nation? Yeah, using child labor, genocidal attacks on the native population, slave labor, and unsafe working conditions that took advantage of the poor. And where did that get us? The great depression. And labor laws. And unions. These things were put in place because libertarianism does not work. Sure, it works for big business, but for citizens not so much. Until the government steps in with regulations. Necessary regulations. Has government grown too much? Yes. But that doesn't mean that there's not a need for it. You say that liberal policies don't work? Liberal policies like OSHA, civil rights, worker rights, public education, national parks, the interstate system, the ADA. I could go on. Some of these could be considered socialist. The difference between the democratic platform (which has issues of its own) and the libertarian platform is that the libertarians think that everyone will act in the best interest of the country instead of themselves only, which is utter crap. You of all people know that people are terrible and yet you have faith in the altruism of others? Please.
GasBandit
Staff member
This is the true attitude of the contemporary leftist. "America is bad and was built on horrible things and needs to be put in its proper place, America deserves to be taken down a notch." And as I posted before, the great depression was only that great because of the unconstitutional big government acts of FDR to "fix" it.
What really works is competition, and unless there is profit motive, there is no drive to compete. A person doesn't deserve to own a nice house, a nice car, a big TV and all that other stuff just by virtue of being born American - that's not the American dream, it's the perversion that is sold by class warfare dealers who want us to believe that we can live in comfort without effort because the rich will pay for everything. The true American dream was economic mobility - the chance to not remain a serf your whole life if you were smart, worked hard, and took advantage of the opportunities before you. Every time leftists get into power, the economy gets more anti-competitive and economic mobility vanishes. They need a permanent underclass to maintain their power. And that's the big truth behind liberalism.[DOUBLEPOST=1469116929,1469116847][/DOUBLEPOST]
If you can't stand the rebuttal, don't smugly join in the circlejerk. I don't see why I'm expected to not speak my mind when you and Charlie and Frank and whoever else get to loudly proclaim your mutual superiority of idealism in a political thread, quoting eachother and chuckling about how those who don't agree with you are selfish, inhuman and monsterous.
GasBandit
Staff member
You don't even know what America is.Yup. I sure do hate America. That's me.
Dave
Staff member
Says the man who never put on a fucking uniform.
GasBandit
Staff member
I've often said that I would limit the right to vote and run for office to those who have, though, haven't I? Yes, that would disenfranchise myself. But by all means, try to bludgeon and silence me with your past military service, I'm sure that my growing up with both parents and both step-parents in the Army means I was completely shielded from learning anything about service, sacrifice and duty. You might be a socialist, but I know you're better than this.[DOUBLEPOST=1469117722,1469117690][/DOUBLEPOST]
We don't have any talk stations here where I work. Well, except for sports.
GasBandit
Staff member
I bite my tongue every day. Every. Day. But today the "wow aren't all libertarians evil idiots? hur hur" finally got to be too much for me. I'm not an evil idiot. Well, ok, I'm not an idiot, and I'm not the kind of evil they mean. And I'm not the only person on these forums with right-leaning political views who feels tired of the insipid mutual-appreciation leftist snarkfest hugboxes that pop up like zits on a teenager lately.
Dave
Staff member
Like I'm not going to respond to telling me that I don't know what the country stands for? Really? And no, you really don't know until you've done it. Your parents made the sacrifice you didn't. You can watch people parenting all you want, doesn't mean you know shit about how to do it.
And silence someone? Me? Right. I just pointed out how fucking insulting your comment was. And let's be completely clear. I like some socialist ideals and some conservative ones. So you continuing to call me a socialist like it's some sort of insult is nothing more than you trying to belittle and deflect.
*last paragraph removed by Dave. Calming down. Saying things I should not and will regret.*
GasBandit
Staff member
How petty of you. You're the one that started the insults.
I just finally had enough of the veiled, careless insults and started responding in kind, and you couldn't stand the same treatment you were dishing out.
GasBandit
Staff member
I'm willing to stand down and apologize if you are.
I'm all up for calling an idea, or a platform, stupid and destructive, and debating their merits. But perhaps it is best we agree not to talk shit about the people who have ideas and platforms.
GasBandit
Staff member
I can accept that. People disagree.
