[TV] S.H.I.E.L.D.

ScytheRexx

ScytheRexx

AshburnerX said:
Except we're right back into X3 territory: The existence of a cure means that it will inevitably be forced onto the public in one form or another to maintain the Status Quo. Yes, there are people out there who would want the cure... but is it right to allow that cure to exist as a threat to the Inhumans who like what they are and are otherwise law abiding citizens? Remember, the same tool that can be used to cure your problem can be used to unwillingly strip another of their life. To use your example, imagine a gay couple, married and with adopted kids, well into their prime... except the government shows up one day and shoots one with a syringe that that turns people into whatever the government decided was "normal". That person's life is effectively destroyed in the same way as your example. It's not like it couldn't happen ether, especially in the Marvel Universe. Fuck, there would be a huge push to do it RIGHT NOW in the real world. You think the religious right wouldn't be dumping their "cure" into food/water/everything in order to force the issue? At least the Inhuman community had the fucking courtesy to only do it to the willing.

Ultimately, this isn't even a choice between liberty or restoration: there is nothing inherently wrong with being gay/Inhuman and suddenly realizing it's what you are is nothing to be ashamed of. You aren't being forced to eat fish or fish oil pills ether. But it IS wrong to force someone to conform to your definition of "normal" when they aren't doing anything wrong, which is what inevitably happens when the government decides it can.
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The problem with your example is that the couple was BORN gay, and then changed by the government, which is different then what we are talking about here. Inhumans are BORN HUMAN, they only become Inhuman through a physical change that alters their DNA. The government would be using the vaccine to prevent further changes that the person may not even know could be possible, not force changes onto others as it would be keeping them at their natural state they have always lived, which is completely different.

The fact is, if I was given the chance to take a vaccine to prevent COMPLETELY RANDOM mutant alteration, I won't be mad at the government for helping me out on that. Yes, it will suck that I might not be able to fly or see through walls, but when I have a 50% chance my "super power" is basically breaking out into hives whenever certain people come near me (aka the hacker guy last season) or will cause my eyes to get devoured by the rest of my face, like Gordon, I think I would be pretty happy with the whole vaccine thing. We can't all be Daisy or Lincoln, and I was not born with a mutant power that I could learn to cope with when I hit puberty.

And that is the rub. What if an outbreak of ebola tomorrow started to happen in which 50% turned into gruesome abominations LITERALLY suffering in some way, and the other 50% gained amazing powers that improved their lives. It wouldn't be ethically acceptable to vaccinate and help retain the lives of that 50% because is impedes on the rights of those who gain wonderful super powers? Again, we are not talking "gay is a disease" here, we are talking LITERAL physical changes that occur that bring pain or suffering in some random capacity, later in life, that you won't know about until the change is permanent. Andrew is literally losing his entire personality to the "Lash" persona, and Lincoln says soon he will be "gone". How is that fair?

Also I wish you would stop using gay as a comparison in this, because it's really not the same. Going back to it, let's say you are born gay and a random virus made you straight. Let's say the government made a vaccine you can get that would prevent this from happening to you. Would it be ethically wrong to take it? I mean, if the virus MADE you straight, obviously that was in your DNA this whole time and just needed to be unlocked, so you might as well live with it. Right?
 
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AshburnerX

AshburnerX

I think the fundamental problem here is that Disney/Marvel wants to use Inhumans as stand-ins for Mutants, but they (and I) are applying the same story commentary across both broadly and it doesn't work that way. Manifestation of powers is different and thus has a few different issues involved, but it still ultimately comes down to whether or not you trust the government with the ability to strip the Lincoln's and Daisy's of the world of their powers as a policy decision, while still helping the people who genuinely want/need the cure.

Except we already know how that plays out: government loads guns with the stuff on Day 1 and just starts indiscriminately shooting mutants/Inhumans with it the moment they have cause. Magneto may be a terrorist, but he's been proven right about the government at every turn. How soon before this becomes an issue for Inhumans? I'm betting right around the time their movie comes out.
 
ScytheRexx

ScytheRexx

HCGLNS said:
Ok is the large headed hydra guy that runs everything the same as the shadow head guy in Avengers 1?
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Yes, Malick was one of the members of the Council that controlled SHIELD. He was the only one missing from Winter Soldier, which was a mystery up until he reappeared as one of Hydras "heads" this season.
 
AshburnerX

AshburnerX

Malick is currently the only surviving "head" of Hydra. This doesn't mean that their aren't other people who could become a Head but rather that anyone who could is sort of sitting in the background, following his lead, mostly out of fear of getting the axe if they piss off Malick. In fact, I'm expecting them to hint at a certain someone showing up in Civil War or on Shield to act as one in the weeks leading up to Civil War.
 
ScytheRexx

ScytheRexx

Ya I got something in my eye during that last scene. My wife thought someone on the show died when she walked into the room.

It will be interesting to see how well the show that spawns off this will be.
 
PatrThom

PatrThom

But they do offer an easy way to try out a character's "bad" side and then immediately follow up with, "just kidding!"

--Patrick
 
CynicismKills

CynicismKills

I guess I should point out that Jessica Jones was a prime example on how to handle mind control. One of the only shows where I didn't immediately roll my eyes when a character lost control of themselves.
 
HCGLNS

HCGLNS

Mind control silliness aside, I really like how the show demonstrated the fear and real concerns about who can by trusted with the emphasis on untrustworthy and dangerous people with powers.

It's almost as if the TV is prepping us to accept a theme that is explored in an upcoming movie...
 
ScytheRexx

ScytheRexx

BananaHands said:
I really hope there's some Ward-Fu involved and Grant Ward manages to walk away from this.
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They seem to be showing that, while in control of the host, Hive does seem to retain memories of those he infested, and those memories seem to influence him. Remember when he killed Malicks daughter? Hive himself had no reason to do that, but the memories he kept of Malick's brother seemed to influence a need for revenge. Same with Simmons and Will. Hive had no reason to keep Simmons alive once he captured her, but yet he spoke to her like Will and even said she needed to let him go. Simmons saw it as Hive trying to influence her, but I actually do believe that these memories are driving Hive more then maybe even he realizes.

Could be, at some point, one of these personalities supplant hive itself.
 
AshburnerX

AshburnerX

On the subject of Ward trying to regain control of Hive...

I'd like to point out there is no reason that Hive shouldn't have known about Daisy's Kree Blood if he has total access to Ward's memories. That he didn't know from the start simply implies that Ward is withholding information from Hive. I suppose it might not have felt IMPORTANT to Ward and thus they didn't realize it, but that seems like a reach.

Also, I'm guessing that Coulson will try to sacrifice himself for Daisy because HE has the blood too.
 
ScytheRexx

ScytheRexx

AshburnerX said:
I'd like to point out there is no reason that Hive shouldn't have known about Daisy's Kree Blood if he has total access to Ward's memories. That he didn't know from the start simply implies that Ward is withholding information from Hive. I suppose it might not have felt IMPORTANT to Ward and thus they didn't realize it, but that seems like a reach.
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That is a good point.
This might also explain why he picked Daisy to influence out of the four inhumans taking part in the rescue. Ward always had a weird thing for her as we saw in past seasons, of course he still might be subconsciously pining for that connection. Goes a long way to explain why Daisy was suddenly laying her head on his shoulder.
As for the Coulson sacrificing himself theory, I have something similar...
I don't think Coulson will sacrifice himself, but that Hive will nearly drain Daisy of her blood, and then when she has nearly nothing left, she will mention Coulson has it too, and then Hive will want to capture Coulson to drain him. He will get captured, and watching Coulson slowly dying will be what finally leads to her breaking the control over her mind. I have a feeling the way she will do it is by vibrating her body at such an intense rate that it will destroy the parasite spores on her brain.
 
ScytheRexx

ScytheRexx

Looks like I was wrong for once. Good!

Though holy smokes was I yelling at the screen...
Lash is an Inhuman, they decided to send an Inhuman to kill a guy that can control Inhumans. Seriously, it was so damn lucky that Lashes energy ability could resist Hives spores, and EXTREMELY lucky that the same ability worked out for extracting said spores from Daisy. If they were wrong, they would have given Hive one hell of a minion. Next episodes is going to be dramatic though, just over the fact that Daisy is going to have to now cope with what she was doing, and May is going to have to deal with the fact Andrew is finally dead.
P.S. Where the fuck is Giyera?
 
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@Li3n

@Li3n

ScytheRexx said:
Though holy smokes was I yelling at the screen...
Lash is an Inhuman, they decided to send an Inhuman to kill a guy that can control Inhumans. Seriously, it was so damn lucky that Lashes energy ability could resist Hives spores, and EXTREMELY lucky that the same ability worked out for extracting said spores from Daisy. If they were wrong, they would have given Hive one hell of a minion. Next episodes is going to be dramatic though, just over the fact that Daisy is going to have to now cope with what she was doing, and May is going to have to deal with the fact Andrew is finally dead.
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Well, as fictional characters, they had the fact that their conjecture is actually exposition, on their side...

So obviously the fact that Lash felt the need to kill inhumans = he was made to counter Hive.

The Kree Supreme Intelligence seems to be way more competent in the movie-verse. I wonder if they'll ever touch on the "genetic dead end" thing with them.
 
Hailey Knight

Hailey Knight

Just finished season 3. It was a solid season with lots of good stuff, though I'd say season 2 was stronger. The last episode was great until ...

SIX MONTHS LATER

This couldn't have waited until the start of season 4? Not every season needs to end with a cliffhanger, especially with us going "what the fuck's happening?" I mean, yay, she's Quake now, and I guess there's a new Ultron being made because we've already tread this ground in the MCU.

It was just really jarring. There's this big emotional ending playing out, and they can't even let it breathe, have a denouement--nope, just gotta slam that teaser on there, clumsy as can be.

Overall a good episode, but that was just dumb.
 
Null

Null

That's a bit jarring to me. So far, SHIELD has been mostly weird science: the Inhumans are the product of alien DNA fragments activated by another alien substance; HYDRA experimented with extraterrestrial gateways and Hive is an alien in a human host; Deathlok is a cyborg; Dr. Hyde was chemical augmentation, that kind of thing. Does it make sense? Not necessarily, but it at least follows comic book mad science logic.

Ghost Rider is an explicitly supernatural character. It seems like an odd fit. I guess it's because Dr. Strange is about the supernatural and this is supposed to built up to it.
 
CynicismKills

CynicismKills

Null said:
That's a bit jarring to me. So far, SHIELD has been mostly weird science: the Inhumans are the product of alien DNA fragments activated by another alien substance; HYDRA experimented with extraterrestrial gateways and Hive is an alien in a human host; Deathlok is a cyborg; Dr. Hyde was chemical augmentation, that kind of thing. Does it make sense? Not necessarily, but it at least follows comic book mad science logic.

Ghost Rider is an explicitly supernatural character. It seems like an odd fit. I guess it's because Dr. Strange is about the supernatural and this is supposed to built up to it.
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I only worry that it might stall out like pre-Cap 2 episodes if the show ties in too much to the movies again.

I'm also curious to see how much of Reyes' story we get, as there's a twist to him being the Rider if I remember right.

The spirit giving him powers is actually his dead uncle that attempts to completely possess Reyes, and eventually his younger brother. If this is the case, we could see one of the old-school Riders come into play, too.
 
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