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S.H.I.E.L.D.

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Aug 28, 2012#1

evilmike

According to Deadline, ABC has ordered a pilot for S.H.I.E.L.D, a live-action series from The Avengers writer-director Joss Whedon, Marvel TV and ABC Studios.

Aug 28, 2012#2

sixpackshaker

Squee!

But who will they cast? And how can they make it affordable for TV?

Aug 29, 2012#3

Zappit

It also mentions a Hulk series, too. Lou's got his fingers crossed.

Aug 29, 2012#4

Covar

sixpackshaker said:
And how can they make it affordable for TV?

Barber Shop HQ. Calling it now, great visual, and far more affordable than the Helicarrier.

Who they'll cast? No idea. Characters? S.H.I.E.L.D.'s got plenty of them.

Sep 22, 2012#5

evilmike

Adam Levermore made an audition reel (?) to try to get hired as a graphic designer for the series

Sep 22, 2012#6

Yoshimickster

....a S.H.I.E.L.D television series. SQUEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE! Sweet Strawberry Jesus I can't wait!

Sep 26, 2012#7

Necronic

As long as they keep Micheal Chiklis in it I'm cool

Oct 2, 2012#8

Norris

So they've released preliminary character descriptions:

Skye:This late-20s woman sounds like a dream: fun, smart, caring and confident -- with an ability to get the upper hand by using her wit and charm.
Agent Grant Ward: Quite the physical specimen and "cool under fire," he sometimes botches interpersonal relations. He's a quiet one with a bit of a temper, but he's the kind of guy that grows on you.
Agent Althea Rice: Also known as "The Calvary," this hard-core soldier has crazy skills when it comes to weapons and being a pilot. But her experiences have left her very quiet and a little damaged.
Agent Leo Fitz and Agent Jemma Simmons: These two came through training together and still choose to spend most of their time in each other's company. Their sibling-like relationship is reinforced by their shared nerd tendencies -- she deals with biology and chemistry, he's a whiz at the technical side of weaponry.

I am a touch disappointed that there isn't a single comic book character on that list. I'd been hoping for Daisy Johnson or Monica Chang (admittedly hard since she's the second Black Widow in The Ultimates) or Eric O'Grady or at least Clay Quartermain.

Oct 2, 2012#9

Adam

Inara:This late-20s woman sounds like a dream: fun, smart, caring and confident -- with an ability to get the upper hand by using her wit and charm.
Jayne Cobb: Quite the physical specimen and "cool under fire," he sometimes botches interpersonal relations. He's a quiet one with a bit of a temper, but he's the kind of guy that grows on you.
River Tam: Also known as "The Calvary," this hard-core soldier has crazy skills when it comes to weapons and being a pilot. But her experiences have left her very quiet and a little damaged.
Kaylee and Wash: These two came through training together and still choose to spend most of their time in each other's company. Their sibling-like relationship is reinforced by their shared nerd tendencies -- she deals with biology and chemistry, he's a whiz at the technical side of weaponry.

Oct 2, 2012#10

Norris

Watch out, those comparisons are stretched so far they're bound snap and up out someone's eye.

Oct 2, 2012#11

Adam

Norris said:
Watch out, those comparisons are stretched so far they're bound snap and up out someone's eye.

So you couldn't see Adam Baldwin playing: "Quite the physical specimen and "cool under fire," he sometimes botches interpersonal relations. He's a quiet one with a bit of a temper, but he's the kind of guy that grows on you."

Oct 2, 2012#12

Tress

Adam said:

Wait, is that a sad face because this is too similar to Firefly in your opinion? Or a sad face because you want more Firefly, and this new show reminded you of it?

Oct 2, 2012#13

Frank

Necronic said:
As long as they keep Micheal Chiklis in it I'm cool

+1 internet.

Oct 2, 2012#14

Adam

Tress said:
Wait, is that a sad face because this is too similar to Firefly in your opinion? Or a sad face because you want more Firefly, and this new show reminded you of it?

A little bit of column A, a little bit of column B.

Oct 13, 2012#15

evilmike

A casting note from NYCC (via CBR)

And then, suddenly, Joss Whedon showed up onscreen amongst applause. "We all love Clark Gregg, there's no doubt about that," Whedon said. "From before we made 'The Avengers,' we discussed whether there was a way for him to be a part of the Marvel Universe, perhaps a part of a TV show even after his death. … The fact of the matter is, as much as we love him, now that I'm really running Marvel, I like to keep a type of artistic integrity, which means we don't stretch the bounds of reality."
"There was never going to be a 'S.H.I.E.L.D.' show without Agent Phil Coulson!" said Feige, who appeared behind Whedon, wearing a COULSON LIVES shirt. "
He's headlining the S.H.I.E.L.D. show and always was." said Whedon.
Loeb confirmed Clark Gregg is the first member cast in Whedon's "S.H.I.E.L.D."

Oct 13, 2012#16

Tress

evilmike said:
A casting note from NYCC (via CBR)

How... wait... what?

Oct 13, 2012#17

Norris

Tress said:
How... wait... what?

Presumably, all will be explained in the pilot. And part of me wants the series finale to end with

Clark Gregg waking up next to Julia Louis-Dreyfus, Newhart style. Just to fuck with people.

Oct 15, 2012#18

Frank

Oh, that's good news. That makes the show suddenly sound watchable.

Oct 15, 2012#19

Norris

Frank said:
Oh, that's good news. That makes the show suddenly sound watchable.

...And a Marvel Studios TV show set in the Marvel Cinematic Universe, co-created by Joss Whedon with Jed Whedon and Maurissa Tancharoen (most notably co-writers of Dr. Horrible, but with some respectable TV work since) didn't sound watchable in the first place?

Oct 15, 2012#20

Frank

No. It didn't. All the characters described thus far sounded generic as hell and the show itself sounded like it would end up being a waste of the property.

Clark Greg has literally been one of the best parts of all the movies, it's a fantastic thing.

Oct 15, 2012#21

ThatNickGuy

Nick Fury faked his death dozens of times with a Life Model Decoy (aka: robot/android copy). They could easily do the same here.

Oct 15, 2012#22

checkeredhat

ThatNickGuy said:
Nick Fury faked his death dozens of times with a Life Model Decoy (aka: robot/android copy). They could easily do the same here.

This is one great example of why NOT following the comics is a good idea.[DOUBLEPOST=1350356011][/DOUBLEPOST]

Adam said:
Inara:This late-20s woman sounds like a dream: fun, smart, caring and confident -- with an ability to get the upper hand by using her wit and charm.
Jayne Cobb: Quite the physical specimen and "cool under fire," he sometimes botches interpersonal relations. He's a quiet one with a bit of a temper, but he's the kind of guy that grows on you.
River Tam: Also known as "The Calvary," this hard-core soldier has crazy skills when it comes to weapons and being a pilot. But her experiences have left her very quiet and a little damaged.
Kaylee and Wash: These two came through training together and still choose to spend most of their time in each other's company. Their sibling-like relationship is reinforced by their shared nerd tendencies -- she deals with biology and chemistry, he's a whiz at the technical side of weaponry.

Black Widow:This late-20s woman sounds like a dream: fun, smart, caring and confident -- with an ability to get the upper hand by using her wit and charm.
Thor: Quite the physical specimen and "cool under fire," he sometimes botches interpersonal relations. He's a quiet one with a bit of a temper, but he's the kind of guy that grows on you.
Captain America: Also known as "The Calvary," this hard-core soldier has crazy skills when it comes to weapons and being a pilot. But [his] experiences have left [him] very quiet and a little damaged.
Bruce Banner and Tony Stark: These two came through training together and still choose to spend most of their time in each other's company. Their sibling-like relationship is reinforced by their shared nerd tendencies -- [he] deals with biology and chemistry, he's a whiz at the technical side of weaponry.

April O Neil:This late-20s woman sounds like a dream: fun, smart, caring and confident -- with an ability to get the upper hand by using her wit and charm.
Raphael: Quite the physical specimen and "cool under fire," he sometimes botches interpersonal relations. He's a quiet one with a bit of a temper, but he's the kind of guy that grows on you.
Casey Jones: Also known as "The Calvary," this hard-core soldier has crazy skills when it comes to weapons and being a pilot. But [his] experiences have left [him] very quiet and a little damaged.
Leonardo and Donatello: These two came through training together and still choose to spend most of their time in each other's company. Their sibling-like relationship is reinforced by their shared nerd tendencies -- [he] deals with biology and chemistry, he's a whiz at the technical side of weaponry.

Princess Leia:This late-20s woman sounds like a dream: fun, smart, caring and confident -- with an ability to get the upper hand by using her wit and charm.
Han Solo: Quite the physical specimen and "cool under fire," he sometimes botches interpersonal relations. He's a quiet one with a bit of a temper, but he's the kind of guy that grows on you.
Chewbacca: Also known as "The Calvary," this hard-core soldier has crazy skills when it comes to weapons and being a pilot. But [his] experiences have left [him] very quiet and a little damaged.
R2 D2 and C3 PO: These two came through training together and still choose to spend most of their time in each other's company. Their sibling-like relationship is reinforced by their shared nerd tendencies -- [he] deals with biology and chemistry, he's a whiz at the technical side of weaponry.

Jessie:This late-20s woman sounds like a dream: fun, smart, caring and confident -- with an ability to get the upper hand by using her wit and charm.
Woody: Quite the physical specimen and "cool under fire," he sometimes botches interpersonal relations. He's a quiet one with a bit of a temper, but he's the kind of guy that grows on you.
Buzz Lightyear: Also known as "The Calvary," this hard-core soldier has crazy skills when it comes to weapons and being a pilot. But [his] experiences have left [him] very quiet and a little damaged.
Ham and Rex: These two came through training together and still choose to spend most of their time in each other's company. Their sibling-like relationship is reinforced by their shared nerd tendencies -- [he] deals with biology and chemistry, he's a whiz at the technical side of weaponry.

Uhura:This late-20s woman sounds like a dream: fun, smart, caring and confident -- with an ability to get the upper hand by using her wit and charm.
Captain Kirk: Quite the physical specimen and "cool under fire," he sometimes botches interpersonal relations. He's a quiet one with a bit of a temper, but he's the kind of guy that grows on you.
Sulu: Also known as "The Calvary," this hard-core soldier has crazy skills when it comes to weapons and being a pilot. But [his] experiences have left [him] very quiet and a little damaged.
Bones and Spock: These two came through training together and still choose to spend most of their time in each other's company. Their sibling-like relationship is reinforced by their shared nerd tendencies -- [he] deals with biology and chemistry, he's a whiz at the technical side of weaponry.

Gandalf:This late-[2o0os] [man] sounds like a dream: fun, smart, caring and confident -- with an ability to get the upper hand by using [his] wit and charm.
Boromir: Quite the physical specimen and "cool under fire," he sometimes botches interpersonal relations. He's a quiet one with a bit of a temper, but he's the kind of guy that grows on you.
Aragorn: Also known as "The Calvary," this hard-core soldier has crazy skills when it comes to weapons and being a pilot. But [his] experiences have left [him] very quiet and a little damaged.
Merry and Pippin: These two came through training together and still choose to spend most of their time in each other's company. Their sibling-like relationship is reinforced by their shared nerd tendencies -- [he] deals with biology and chemistry, he's a whiz at the technical side of weaponry.

http://www.cracked.com/video_18260_which-ninja-turtle-are-you-lifes-most-important-question.html

What's your point?

Oct 16, 2012#23

@Li3n

Considering Fury lied about the trading cards (going as far as putting blood on them), the easiest way to do it is just having him not have died... fits Fury pretty well too.

Oct 24, 2012#24

evilmike

Ming-Na Wen has been cast as Agent Melinda May. (via Deadline)

Jan 12, 2013#25

evilmike

IGN spoke with ABC president Paul Lee and he offered some insight on how the television show ties into the movies:

“There is no question that it is part of the Marvel Universe. In fact, the story takes place after the battle for New York."

More here.

Jan 25, 2013#26

@Li3n

So that's pretty much confirmation that he's alive...

Unless they actually have the balls to risk going the LMD route...

Jan 31, 2013#27

BananaHands

@Li3n said:
Considering Fury lied about the trading cards (going as far as putting blood on them), the easiest way to do it is just having him not have died... fits Fury pretty well too.

Oh yeah. And would be a great way to open the show if it's Coulson waking up in a hospital recovering. "Ready to get back to work, sir." "Well, that's the problem. Considering you're dead, you've been reassigned."

Apr 2, 2013#28

evilmike

Clark Gregg Talks S.H.I.E.L.D.

May 12, 2013#29

evilmike

First glimpse of SHIELD in action

Second glimpse

May 12, 2013#30

Bowielee

Wait, was that Luke Cage?

May 12, 2013#31

Shawn

Consider me excited.

May 12, 2013#32

sixpackshaker

Don't touch Lola. :rofl:

[DOUBLEPOST=1368416264][/DOUBLEPOST]SWEET CHRISTMAS!

May 12, 2013#33

Frank

This is the first time I've been keen for this show.

May 13, 2013#34

ThatNickGuy

Sweet Christmas, I can't wait.

May 13, 2013#35

Tress

Frank said:
This is the first time I've been keen for this show.

Same here.

May 13, 2013#36

Shawn

It hasn't really caught my eye until now. I kinda figured it would just be a throw-away show for the sole purpose of bleeding out the franchise as much as possible. Buy hey. If they have Whedon working on it then I guess they kinda actually have some decent names involved. I'll bet the series has a strong tie into the 2nd Avengers movie.

May 13, 2013#37

Espy

Eeeeeeeh. I want it to be good but I really have this feeling that like most shows that need good fx but don't have the budget it's going to suffer and end up have a lot of, "Oh hey look, it's an amazing superpower over there! I mean, don't look at it! I'll describe it to you! Wow! It's awesome! I wish you could see what the Hulk just did! But you can't!"

May 13, 2013#38

Espy

See maybe this is the real worry I have: "They've got an entire universe to play with"

Everyone knows theres this huge marvel universe and if it turns out to be a generic police procedural that can't afford to actually explore that world then it's going to be a procedural version of "Heroes". And that sounds awful and will leave mainstream audiences going "When does Iron Man show up? He doesn't? Captain America? No? Scarlett Johansen? Oh. Well... is there a singing competition on somewhere?"

Don't get me wrong, I like the idea and I'd love it to succeed, but I think my concerns are valid.

May 13, 2013#39

Tress

Your concern can be boiled down to "Aren't most Americans too stupid to enjoy this, even if it's done well?"

Which is a concern for every show that isn't reality show trash.

EDIT: Just to be clear, I do think that's a valid concern. I just think it's a valid concern for most scripted shows, not just this one.

May 13, 2013#40

Shawn

The Marvel and DC universes NEVER made sense to me. EVER. Everyone is practically a super hero. You could walk down a busy street, and you'll probably see at least a few dozen super heroes (even ones who are in their secret identities). Yet crime still happens. Not just super-villain worthy crime. Street crime. Bank robberies. Purse snatchings. Some guy runs through the city mugging people and thinks to himself "I'll never get caught. Lalala". Then he's surprised when Green Arrow or Spider-Man runs in and stops him. Then there's the fact that so many of the heroes/villains are either over-powered or under-powered. It's rather convenient that the villains that Batman is capable of dealing with hang out in Gotham City. But it's always a big fight and sometimes can be a close call for the dark knight. Whereas Super-Man could probably just wander by, walk through all of Joker's traps unscathed, and fly the jerk off to jail. Heck. Might not even be a bad idea to send the guy off to an intergalactic lock-up rather than keep putting him into the one prison he keeps breaking out of. It begs the question; why do heroes with such lower powered abilities even make a difference when compared to the big boys? It's such a difference that even a

Personally I prefer the universes where super humans are very rare. This is why I often prefer movies over comics because typically the movie doesn't often acknowledge that there might be other people like the main hero out there. No where in the Spider-Man films is it hinted that the Fantastic 4, the X-men, or the Avengers might come to his aid. And you'd think they would given certain circumstances. "Oh no. The Lizard is about to turn all of New York into Lizard people. Where are the Avengers? Probably eating shawarma."

May 13, 2013#41

Ravenpoe

Shawnacy said:
The Marvel and DC universes NEVER made sense to me. EVER. Everyone is practically a super hero. You could walk down a busy street, and you'll probably see at least a few dozen super heroes (even ones who are in their secret identities). Yet crime still happens. Not just super-villain worthy crime. Street crime. Bank robberies. Purse snatchings. Some guy runs through the city mugging people and thinks to himself "I'll never get caught. Lalala". Then he's surprised when Green Arrow or Spider-Man runs in and stops him.

It's almost as if a purely top-down approach on the problem of crime isn't the solution. But that's another thread.

May 13, 2013#42

Bowielee

Shawnacy said:
Personally I prefer the universes where super humans are very rare. This is why I often prefer movies over comics because typically the movie doesn't often acknowledge that there might be other people like the main hero out there. No where in the Spider-Man films is it hinted that the Fantastic 4, the X-men, or the Avengers might come to his aid. And you'd think they would given certain circumstances. "Oh no. The Lizard is about to turn all of New York into Lizard people. Where are the Avengers? Probably eating shawarma."

It's more about character rights than it is about storytelling in that case.

May 13, 2013#43

Shawn

Bowielee said:
It's more about character rights than it is about storytelling in that case.

Like "Hey. Spider-Man's got this. I'm sure he'll take care of Venom before too many more innocents get killed"?

May 13, 2013#44

Espy

Tress said:
Your concern can be boiled down to "Aren't most Americans too stupid to enjoy this, even if it's done well?"

Which is a concern for every show that isn't reality show trash.

EDIT: Just to be clear, I do think that's a valid concern. I just think it's a valid concern for most scripted shows, not just this one.

That is absolutely not my concern. My concern is that they create a show built upon a certain expectation of quality and entertainment and cannot meet that expectation.

May 13, 2013#45

Bowielee

Shawnacy said:
Like "Hey. Spider-Man's got this. I'm sure he'll take care of Venom before too many more innocents get killed"?

No, I mean Sony has the movie rights to Spider-Man, Marvel Studios has the rights to the Avengers.

May 13, 2013#46

Shawn

Bowielee said:
No, I mean Sony has the movie rights to Spider-Man, Marvel Studios has the rights to the Avengers.

Ah, still. But either way the opportunity has been there for some franchises. The DC universe for example is owned by Warner Bros and they have yet to really link any of their character franchises beyond just animation. I think I've heard a nod or two on occasion, such as someone mentioning Gotham City in a Superman movie before, but other than that it's like each character resides in their own dimension where they are the most unique individual.

May 13, 2013#47

Tress

Espy said:
That is absolutely not my concern. My concern is that they create a show built upon a certain expectation of quality and entertainment and cannot meet that expectation.

Then I misunderstood. My apologies.

May 13, 2013#48

Espy

Like it or not, people are going to want The Avengers and if they get Heroes instead I don't know that it will succeed. Like I said, I hope I'm wrong.

May 13, 2013#49

Shakey

I don't know that it wouldn't succeed if it does end up being like Heroes. Sure, it won't be Avengers or Iron Man popular, but it'll do fine.

May 13, 2013#50

Espy

Like I said, I hope it does work, they have some good folks working on it, it's a hard world to translate to TV though so good luck to them.

May 13, 2013#51

Shakey

stienman said:
SHIELD: little bad guys bent on dominating THE ENTIRE TRI-STATE AREA!

I think the best route would be to focus on helping people first discovering their powers. Sure there's some out to hurt people that need to be dealt with, but more that just need help controlling it. Where this would work, and where Heroes went south, is that they can keep the powers minimal by shuffling out people with powers on a regular basis. Heroes fell into the trap where the heroes got too powerful, and they couldn't afford to show their powers. Plus the main characters pretty much became Gods, which sounds fun but is hard to make into a dramatic story.

May 13, 2013#52

Bowielee

I don't think anyone is going into this show expecting to see the Avengers. Even people who aren't familiar with the way in which films are made are going to expect Robert Downy Jr. to step down from movies to TV. On the plus side, they can easily introduce some Avengers who haven't shown up in the movies, like Luke Cage, Iron Fist, Wasp, Giant Man, etc... Some heroes powers are extemely easy to do on a low budget. How hard would it be to greenscreen someone to be giant or small?

May 13, 2013#53

Ravenpoe

stienman said:
SHIELD: little bad guys bent on dominating THE ENTIRE TRI-STATE AREA!

Today, a city block! Tomorrow... A SLIGHTLY LARGER CITY BLOCK!

May 13, 2013#54

Shawn

I feel that the real question is whether it can be pulled off if the emphasis is not on the Avengers. Not if people will watch it knowing the Avengers are not in it. You need to make a show based around a group of agents who, for the most part, do not have super powers, or perhaps a few who have some minor ones. While I don't suspect they will be fighting low level crime, they certainly will be looking into terrorist plots and saving the world on a smaller scale. But how do you pull off a show about people living in a world of Super Heroes? Characters development. And who knows how to do that better than Joss?

May 13, 2013#55

Ravenpoe

Shawnacy said:
Characters development. And who knows how to do that better than Joss?

Oh god, they're all gonna die!

May 13, 2013#56

klew

West Coast Avengers?

May 13, 2013#57

Shawn

Ravenpoe said:
Oh god, they're all gonna die!

Not all of them.
Just the funny ones that everyone likes.

May 14, 2013#58

fade

The worst Heroes sin it could commit is to start out well and peter out. (ooo mysteries! ooo Sylar is scary! Ooo the man with the glasses creeps the hell out of me! Hiro is... well Hiro is awesome! --later-- Oh. That's it?)

May 14, 2013#59

Covar

I just realized. Avengers was a huge success, and shows like Bones, Persons of Interest, and NCIS are huge successes. I really think ABC would have to work pretty hard to screw this up.

May 14, 2013#60

evilmike

Another Trailer

May 14, 2013#61

klew

new trailer makes the show look very Torchwood-y

May 14, 2013#62

CrimsonSoul

klew said:
new trailer makes the show look very Torchwood-y

Torchwood is awesome

May 14, 2013#63

Hailey Knight

klew said:
new trailer makes the show look very Torchwood-y

That looks way better than Torchwood.

May 15, 2013#64

Bowielee

CrimsonSoul said:
Torchwood is awesome

I'm one of the few people who actually enjoyed Torchwood, but even I think calling it awesome is a stretch, with the exception of Children of Earth.

May 15, 2013#65

Gryfter

SHIELD looks fun. You know... after seeing that latest trailer it occurs to me that it would be the perfect vehicle to introduce the Skrulls.

May 15, 2013#66

Bowielee

Gryfter said:
SHIELD looks fun. You know... after seeing that latest trailer it occurs to me that it would be the perfect vehicle to introduce the Skrulls.

They have been introduced. They were crawling all over New York in the Avengers.

May 15, 2013#67

Gryfter

Bowielee said:
They have been introduced. They were crawling all over New York in the Avengers.

No those were the Chitari. Skrulls are the shape-shifters.

May 15, 2013#68

Bowielee

Gryfter said:
No those were the Chitari. Skrulls are the shape-shifters.

The Chitari are the Skrulls of the Ultimate universe. Same thing, in the comics, the Chitari are also shape shifters.

May 15, 2013#69

Tress

What Bowielee said. So you probably won't get Skrulls... which is actually a good thing, in my opinion. The "He/she was a Skrull all along!" mechanic was overused to the point it just became stupid and lazy.

May 15, 2013#70

ThatNickGuy

Bowielee said:
The Chitari are the Skrulls of the Ultimate universe. Same thing, in the comics, the Chitari are also shape shifters.

They used the name and nothing else. In the Ultimate comics, yes, they were shape-shifters, but we didn't see a single bit of that in the movie.

Also, a thought occurred to me. Marvel recently won back the rights to both Ghost Rider and Daredevil. I would love to see a court case episode and suddenly Matt frigging Murdock appears to represent.

May 15, 2013#71

Gryfter

ThatNickGuy said:
They used the name and nothing else. In the Ultimate comics, yes, they were shape-shifters, but we didn't see a single bit of that in the movie.

Also, a thought occurred to me. Marvel recently won back the rights to both Ghost Rider and Daredevil. I would love to see a court case episode and suddenly Matt frigging Murdock appears to represent.

Thought of that too... would be awesome. Make it so Whedon!

May 15, 2013#72

Hailey Knight

Daredevil is a perfectly doable hero on a TV budget.

May 15, 2013#73

ThatNickGuy

Quotemander Prime said:
Daredevil is a perfectly doable hero on a TV budget.

I've heard they're thinking of doing exactly that with the Daredevil property - making it a TV show. If so, I'm down.

May 15, 2013#74

Charlie Don't Surf

Despite my very public disdain for Avengers, I'm pretty cautiously hyped for this. Also I liked the Affleck Daredevil movie way more than everyone else in the world and am cool with as much Daredevil as they'll give me anywhere.

May 15, 2013#75

sixpackshaker

I concur, I liked Daredevil. But I was put off a bit by Bullseye.

May 15, 2013#76

ThatNickGuy

Charlie Don't Surf said:
Despite my very public disdain for Avengers, I'm pretty cautiously hyped for this. Also I liked the Affleck Daredevil movie way more than everyone else in the world and am cool with as much Daredevil as they'll give me anywhere.

Huh. I think you're the first person on here to agree with me on the Daredevil movie. Thought I was alone.

Also, I can't for the life of me understand your disdain for the Avengers movie.

May 15, 2013#77

Chad Sexington

ThatNickGuy said:
Huh. I think you're the first person on here to agree with me on the Daredevil movie. Thought I was alone.

Also, I can't for the life of me understand your disdain for the Avengers movie.

I liked the Daredevil film alright.

I can't speak for Charlie Don't Surf, but maaaaan I was bored during Avengers.

Coulson basically had to be the one who died; can't kill off a big hero with a franchise to go. Loki was a dull villain; I'd seen him be a jerk already, and then we just, like, put him some fancy handcuffs? We're not going to kill this guy? And are we all okay watching Iron Man... fix a plane? ACTION And the aliens! What the fuck What Like, how did they even know shooting the missile through the portal would make them all die? And how come he had to fly with the missile? It's a missile! Just point it at the portal, it'll go of it's own accord! Was it just so we could feel grim that Iron Man almost died? And why can he be the Hulk and also always angry? And why should we feel good about that? Anger isn't good. BLARGH But the shawarma scene was fucking gold. Loved it.

May 16, 2013#78

Bowielee

sixpackshaker said:
I concur, I liked Daredevil. But I was put off a bit by Bullseye.

He was the best part of the movie

PPP

May 16, 2013#79

AshburnerX

Chad Sexington said:
I liked the Daredevil film alright.

I can't speak for Charlie Don't Surf, but maaaaan I was bored during Avengers.

Coulson basically had to be the one who died; can't kill off a big hero with a franchise to go. Loki was a dull villain; I'd seen him be a jerk already, and then we just, like, put him some fancy handcuffs? We're not going to kill this guy? And are we all okay watching Iron Man... fix a plane? ACTION And the aliens! What the fuck What Like, how did they even know shooting the missile through the portal would make them all die? And how come he had to fly with the missile? It's a missile! Just point it at the portal, it'll go of it's own accord! Was it just so we could feel grim that Iron Man almost died? And why can he be the Hulk and also always angry? And why should we feel good about that? Anger isn't good. BLARGH But the shawarma scene was fucking gold. Loved it.

- I'll give you Coulson. They telegraphed it a mile away.

-Loki is the son of a foreign head of state. A country/world that is more than powerful enough to lay waste to the entire planet Earth if Odin ever had the desire to. Killing Loki would only lead to bad things, especially if you did it when Odin's OTHER son is there to take him home.

- Modern cruise missiles are self correcting. There was a not insignificant chance that the missile would turn away from the portal and then go off in New York City like it was intended to. You know... the nuclear missile. Which is probably why it was able to kill the massed army on the other side of the portal and deactivate the portal (it probably blew up the thing holding it open).

May 16, 2013#80

Hailey Knight

I thought the portal was already closing as Iron Man flew up into it. Can't remember; haven't seen it since it was in theaters.

May 16, 2013#81

Chad Sexington

AshburnerX said:
- I'll give you Coulson. They telegraphed it a mile away.

-Loki is the son of a foreign head of state. A country/world that is more than powerful enough to lay waste to the entire planet Earth if Odin ever had the desire to. Killing Loki would only lead to bad things, especially if you did it when Odin's OTHER son is there to take him home.

- Modern cruise missiles are self correcting. There was a not insignificant chance that the missile would turn away from the portal and then go off in New York City like it was intended to. You know... the nuclear missile. Which is probably why it was able to kill the massed army on the other side of the portal and deactivate the portal (it probably blew up the thing holding it open).

Quotemander Prime said:
I thought the portal was already closing as Iron Man flew up into it. Can't remember; haven't seen it since it was in theaters.

Wasn't the device Black Widow was deactivating the thing that opened the portal/kept it open? Plus, how did blowing up the ship kill all the aliens on the earth side of the portal?

May 16, 2013#82

Hailey Knight

Chad Sexington said:
Wasn't the device Black Widow was deactivating the thing that opened the portal/kept it open? Plus, how did blowing up the ship kill all the aliens on the earth side of the portal?

Because they're cybernetic and were controlled by the big "mothership" beyond the portal. Of course, Tony Stark couldn't have known that, but he had to have guessed that a nuclear weapon aimed at their army would put a dent in their ranks. At the very least, he was trying to get it out of New York and sending it into space worked for Superman twice.

May 17, 2013#83

Ravenpoe

Quotemander Prime said:
Because they're cybernetic and were controlled by the big "mothership" beyond the portal. Of course, Tony Stark couldn't have known that, but he had to have guessed that a nuclear weapon aimed at their army would put a dent in their ranks. At the very least, he was trying to get it out of New York and sending it into space worked for Superman twice.

Not to mention that a nuke that size would have been impossible for him to get far enough out to sea to not still destroy the city, so guiding it through the wormhole was really the only place to put it.

May 17, 2013#84

Espy

GUYS, stop arguing!

A wizard did it. Duh.

A wizard named Joss.

May 20, 2013#85

fade

May 20, 2013#86

SpecialKO

Espy said:
GUYS, stop arguing!

A wizard did it. Duh.

A wizard named Joss.

Now I want them to make a show about Dr. Strange solving street crimes with magic. And has Luke Cage and Iron Fist as his side-kicks. Because Dr. Strange is awesome.

May 20, 2013#87

BananaHands

I really want a Heroes for Hire TV show.

Jul 20, 2013#88

evilmike

The panel at SDCC

Aug 11, 2013#89

CynicismKills

Saw the pilot today.

It's glorious.

Aug 12, 2013#90

BananaHands

CynicismKills said:
Saw the pilot today.

It's glorious.

Is that guy Luke Cage???

Aug 12, 2013#91

CynicismKills

No spoilers for you!

Aug 12, 2013#92

BananaHands

CynicismKills said:
No spoilers for you!

AW COME ON

Aug 12, 2013#93

CynicismKills

BananaHands said:
AW COME ON

Sep 24, 2013#94

sixpackshaker

Well, today is the day. Of course I don't think there is anyway to not know that... ABC/Disney is in full advertising assault for this launch. Which kind of worries me.

Sep 24, 2013#95

Covar

Joss Whedon is showrunner. What's there to worry about?

Sep 24, 2013#96

figmentPez

Covar said:
Joss Whedon is showrunner. What's there to worry about?

Getting canceled?

Sep 24, 2013#97

Covar

Touche. At least it will be an enjoyable 13 episodes.

Sep 24, 2013#98

Frank

Covar said:
Joss Whedon is showrunner. What's there to worry about?

It being Dollhouse.

Sep 24, 2013#99

Tress

Relax people. ABC is much better than FOX. I'm sure they'll actually show all the episodes in chronological order before it gets cancelled.

Sep 24, 2013#100

AshburnerX

Tress said:
Relax people. ABC is much better than FOX. I'm sure they'll actually show all the episodes in chronological order before it gets cancelled.

Kevin Smith would disagree, considering what they did with Clerks: The Animated Series.

Sep 24, 2013#101

Tress

Instead of "Resident Boo Radley" under your name, it should say "Wet Blanket".

But hey, thanks for seriously responding to an obvious joke.

Sep 24, 2013#102

sixpackshaker

AshburnerX said:
Kevin Smith would disagree, considering what they did with Clerks: The Animated Series.

Someone at ABC was high when that was greenlit.

Sep 24, 2013#103

ThatNickGuy

Frank said:
It being Dollhouse.

Hey, I liked Dollhouse.

Sep 24, 2013#104

Ravenpoe

ThatNickGuy said:
Hey, I liked Dollhouse.

So did I.

Though, this helped (spoilered for size and possibly nsfw-ness)

Sep 24, 2013#105

Tiger Tsang

figmentPez said:
Getting canceled?

Well, he's on Disney owned ABC and not 'Fuck it, this is a quality show let's FUBAR it!' Fox.

Sep 24, 2013#106

Bowielee

stienman said:
The premise behind dollhouse was very interesting, but the post-apocalyptic nature of the ending just left me disappointed.

Reminded me very much of La Femme Nikita (well, until the ending), which was fine, but I'm not sure where they could have taken the show without boring us anyway. They did the typical ethical questions, the bureaucratic junk, the emotional drama, the experiment-gone-wrong, the who-am-I-really, the recursive doll. I don't know that the universe had much more to say about the dolls and the dollhouse, but it was a very good show nonetheless.

There's the fact that these people were essentially raped over and over again. That was touched on, but the trauma of that wasn't as much as it could have been. As far as the ending goes, they had to rush to it given that they were given one season to wrap it up. I liked the idea that the technology could essentially be used to control the world.

Sep 24, 2013#107

AshburnerX

Well... it's clear that Disney has a lot of faith in the show, because they dropped a pretty penny for the special effects. I really don't think it's going anywhere... unless Marvel movies stop making mad money anyway.

Sep 24, 2013#108

Zappit

My money's on Coulson being a Life Model Decoy, hence that "he can never know" bit.

Sep 24, 2013#109

Frank

It was a Whedon show alright, so take that how you want to.

Sep 24, 2013#110

rac3r_x

Sep 25, 2013#111

Bowielee

It was much better than I thought it would be.

However, I was fairly certain that it was going to be crap.

I'm glad I was wrong.

Sep 25, 2013#112

BananaHands

Coulson confirmed for Vision. Did you see him dodge that door!

Sep 25, 2013#113

Tress

I liked it. I need it to grow a little to keep watching over the long haul, though.

Sep 25, 2013#114

Bowielee

I'm kind of disappointed that the guy from the previews wasn't Luke Cage, though

Sep 25, 2013#115

Frank

Bowielee said:
I'm kind of disappointed that the guy from the previews wasn't Luke Cage, though

I hope the entire show doesn't become generic threat of the week thinly tied together by villainous organization made up for the show.

Sep 25, 2013#116

Tress

Frank said:
I hope the entire show doesn't become generic threat of the week thinly tied together by villainous organization made up for the show.

I find it hilarious you think there's a chance it won't play out exactly as you described.

Sep 25, 2013#117

Frank

If the threats of the week scrape the weird bottom barrel Marvel characters that will never be used in movies, cool. If the threats of the week are Jim Barnes, local guy who is Extremis powered! LAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAME.

Sep 25, 2013#118

AshburnerX

Well we have Joss Wheadon doing the show and he knows exactly what is going to be going into the next Avengers movie, as well as what is happening in all the movies between now and then. This means he's knows exactly what he should and shouldn't be developing and what won't be used. So I'd wager he'll find something good for the show.

I'm also betting that we're going to see a lot of high quality props in the TV show, if only because Disney will be able to reuse them for the movies. I'm sure that helps the budget.

But yeah... It's probably going to be these guys going up against AIM or HYDRA or something. I'm fine with that.

Sep 25, 2013#119

Covar

I'm really hoping for some bee keepers.

Sep 25, 2013#120

Ravenpoe

I totally dig this show so far.

Sep 25, 2013#121

Officer_Charon

Just caught it on On-Demand.

Much approved, all around. Ron Glass as head Medico? Yes please! More Cobie Smulders? Fuck the hell yes. Coulson's Comeback (even if he might not be the original model)? I'll take that.

This one's going into the weekly viewing rotation.

Sep 25, 2013#122

Gryfter

Pilot was good... I'm in.

Sep 25, 2013#123

IronBrig4

I enjoyed it. Anybody else catch the references such as "tales to astonish"? I'm hoping they bring in some of the lower-tier heroes such as Speedball and Night Thrasher. Maybe they could have an episode set in Canada where they work with Alpha Flight.

Sep 25, 2013#124

ScytheRexx

Bowielee said:
I'm kind of disappointed that the guy from the previews wasn't Luke Cage, though

Who says?

Remember, they don't have to go with the same origins as the old comics. Pretty sure all we knew about Luke Cage before he became "Luke Cage" was that he was a thug named Carl Lucas. The origin as shown in the show was pretty close to the Luke Cage origin in the comics.

Comics: Lucas volunteers while in prison to undergo a variation of the super-soldier serum, with a doctor researching cell regeneration.

Show: Michael volunteers while on disability to undergo a variation of the super-soldier serum mixed with Extremis, with a doctor researching cell regeneration. (Project Centipede)

Near the end of the show he has "Sky" remove all records of his existence from the world, believing he was "no longer Michael" and wanting to start over. We watch as his son in dropped off with what seems to be a foster family after he is captured and his Extremis instability is neutralized.

Don't be surprised if next time we see him, he has lost all memories of his past life, decides to call himself "Luke Cage", and breaks out to have that new better life he dreamed about, by being a Hero for Hire.

At least, that's how I see it going.

Sep 25, 2013#125

Ravenpoe

They need to bring in The Avengers!

Or... at least the Great Lakes Avengers.

Sep 25, 2013#126

ThatNickGuy

ScytheRexx said:
At least, that's how I see it going.

Doubtful. Going by what they presented in the episode, I get the feeling the thing attached to his arm is the source of the power. So once it's removed, boom goes the power. I'd prefer Cage to have the powers without the arm bug. But then again, your explanation is solid enough. Maybe he keeps the powers after they remove it or something.

So I watched it tonight, myself. And it was...okay. It was good, just not out of the gate great as I'd expected. I thought there were a few too many cutsie nerd references. Most of them thankfully didn't feel too forced. The "great power..." line felt really forced that I just rolled my eyes.

Also, I didn't really think many of the characters were very interesting. The main spy guy they brought on board is dull as hell, for example. The hacker girl feels like your typical spunky nerdy character in every Whedon show. Fitz & Simmons' introduction felt a little forced with their back and forth bickering and a little too fast-talk for me (especially without subtitles). I think the episode as a whole had the problem of trying to introduce too many characters all at once on top of doing the story with Not Luke Cage.

And honestly, the story as a whole felt kind of ho-hum. Not horrible, just...okay. I honestly expected better. There's still enough to like that I'll tune in again next week, though.

Oh, and @Ravenpoe? That's the GLX (Great Lakes X-Men), not the GLA.

Sep 25, 2013#127

ScytheRexx

ThatNickGuy said:
Doubtful. Going by what they presented in the episode, I get the feeling the thing attached to his arm is the source of the power. So once it's removed, boom goes the power. I'd prefer Cage to have the powers without the arm bug. But then again, your explanation is solid enough. Maybe he keeps the powers after they remove it or something.

The arm bug was slowly applying the powers by soaking a liquid into his body, but it never said it was the driver of them. Remember, it was made of reverse engineered byproducts of the super-serum, mixed with some gamma radiation and a nice helping of Extremis from IM3. Were any of those things "temporary"? (Pepper Potts does not count, we have no idea what Tony did to her to get rid of the Extremis.)

If removing the "centipede" removed the powers, then the "third option" Coulson so desperately wanted would have been removing the arm thing rather then putting Fitzsimmons on that mission to find a neutralizing agent to the Extremis. The two said the only way to stop him by that point was to kill him by containing him long enough to explode or kill him by putting a bullet through his head, removing the arm thing was not even put onto the table if it simple removed the powers.

The final speech, when Michael says how he wanted to be a hero, Coulson said something to the effect "We want you to be one too" before they shot him with the neutralizing agent (at least as far as I remember). If they knew removing the arm thing or using the agent would "remove" his powers, why say that? Why put his kid into some idealic foster care? There has to be more to it then that, and I am sure the character will come back for another round down the line having retained his super strength and implied indestructibility.

Sep 25, 2013#128

Zappit

Nobody else sees the shadowy organization being a revival of HYDRA, SHIELD's long-standing enemy? Or AIM? Both of those groups have the resources and tech to pull it off.

Sep 25, 2013#129

ScytheRexx

Zappit said:
Nobody else sees the shadowy organization being a revival of HYDRA, SHIELD's long-standing enemy? Or AIM? Both of those groups have the resources and tech to pull it off.

Pretty sure it will be AIM. It's even implied that they were the ones that provided the doctor with Extremis. Though I would love for it to be HYDRA.

Sep 25, 2013#130

Frank

Maybe they can redeem AIM from being as lame as it was in Iron Man 3, hopefully by making it as delightfully silly as it is the MCU.

Sep 25, 2013#131

ScytheRexx

Frank said:
Maybe they can redeem AIM from being as lame as it was in Iron Man 3, hopefully by making it as delightfully silly as it is the MCU.

We need some MODOK. Let's see the special effects guys get that right.

Sep 26, 2013#132

MindDetective

Just watched it on Hulu.

Frank said:
It was a Whedon show alright, so take that how you want to.

I felt like there was very little Whedon in it, personally, even though he, his brother, and Maurissa Tancharoen were in fact the writers for it. It felt like a SyFy show that was given an actual budget. The tech-magic was off-putting for me and the characters, except Coulson and maybe Melinda May (Ming-NaWen), were little more than pretty faces. I wasn't wowed. I'll watch another one or two and see if it grabs me. Whedon likes a slow boil, which I can appreciate, but I don't want to keep thinking about Alphas when I'm watching this.

Sep 26, 2013#133

Bowielee

I'd say the hacker girl was extremely "Whedon-esque".[DOUBLEPOST=1380219058,1380219026][/DOUBLEPOST]

ThatNickGuy said:
Oh, and @Ravenpoe? That's the GLX (Great Lakes X-Men), not the GLA.

They're the same team, they just keep changing their name.

Sep 26, 2013#134

Fun Size

I thought it was fine. Best thing I ever saw? Oh Hell no. But go back and watch the first couple episodes of Buffy. It's...difficult.

I'm sure once it gets going it will be well worth the time.

Sep 26, 2013#135

Bowielee

I think that it will eventually pick up. Like I said earlier, I thought it was going to be a trainwreck and at least it wasn't that. Also, I think that people are starting to realize in general that you can't judge a TV show usually by its first couple of episodes.

Sep 26, 2013#136

Tress

Bowielee said:
Also, I think that people are starting to realize in general that you can't judge a TV show usually by its first couple of episodes.

MASH was almost cancelled after its first season.

Every show has some parts that don't work at first. The good ones, with good writers, improve and tweak it constantly. So I would say this particular show has potential... but they need to realize that potential if they are going to make it. As-is, the show has some issues that will keep it from being worthwhile without improvement.

Sep 26, 2013#137

IronBrig4

True, the first few episodes of Big Bang Theory aren't particularly good. It took four or five episodes for the series to find its footing.

Sep 26, 2013#138

Shakey

I really enjoyed it. This is definitely a show that needs time to develop, but it has potential and some really good people behind it. The ending was kind of cheesy, and felt very men in black, but I'm definitely looking forward to next week.

Sep 26, 2013#139

ScytheRexx

I think one of the issue with me for the start of a Whedon show is that his shows are always very ensemble-based, and it's impossible to get us to know everyone on a level we really start to care on the first episode.

We already know Coulson for the most part, so he is the familiar face, but now we got...

A loner, by the book agent with a troubled past and a chip on his shoulder. Does not work well with others.
An older agent who pulled herself out of the "business" only to be pulled back in. Deceptively skilled.
A hacker and former SHIELD enemy who turns to their side in the first half hour. Previously erased her existence for reasons unknown.
A duo of akward British brainaics who make all the crazy stuff the team uses, so close they are literally named together as Fitzsimmons.

That is a lot of people to get to know, and so the first episode was basically just telling us "Hey, these people exist, we will go more into their troubled pasts and dramatic arcs later."

Sep 29, 2013#140

evilmike

I was pleasantly surprised by one thing at the end of the episode.

Sep 29, 2013#141

Shawn

I'm not sure what to say. I liked it enough that I'm going to continue watching, but is this the epic Marvel universe series we've been waiting for?
I'm always disappointed by a series that promises more than it delivers. When you think S.H.I.E.L.D you think high level homeland security risks that require expert tactical response. Coulson leads a team that is supposedly one of the highest security levels that the other six don't even know exist. And yet things just don't seem epic enough to warrant it. Take the first episode: Their team is challenged with the mission of finding a rookie super hero. And they kinda fumble their way to their objective. They have to track down a hacker who, for some reason, is one step ahead of the organization for years until they... actually start looking for her? She's in a van.... by a coffee shop... using their wifi.
This team hacks Tony Stark's shit all the time... and I'm supposed to believe that "The Rising Tide" gives them a run for their money?

Maybe I'll watch it again. Try and soak it in. It has some great lines as per Whedon's usual writing. I'm sure I'll like watching it. But it's likely going to continue to feel like it didn't live up to the hype.

Oct 2, 2013#142

Covar

Good second episode. Lots of great little things were addressed, and you get to see the team work together in a manner that implies that this is going to be a fairly balanced team show, much more so than Firefly. Not in the everyone can do everyone's job, but that everyone's role matters, and is of importance.

Things continue to be a fun ride.

We're going to have to cancel the fish tank.

Oct 2, 2013#143

sixpackshaker

"Don't talk to me about authority..."

Oct 2, 2013#144

IronBrig4

"You've got a bar..."

Oct 2, 2013#145

ScytheRexx

The one thing getting on my nerves a little is how much they are attempting to tie in with the movies. It's fine in moderation, but the first episode went a little overboard with how Michael got his power (Chitari tech mixed with super-serum, gamma rays, AND Extremis!? Jeesus), and in the second one we had a comment about Thor's Hammer, Hydra, Captain America, etc.

Also is it just me, but does Melinda feel like a huge attempt by the writers to get Black Widow into the show WITHOUT Black Widow? It's like they assumed they could use Black Widow in the show, but then realized they couldn't, and so changed the name on the script to Melinda, added a bit of a "Does not want to fight" angle to her background and called it a day.

Oct 2, 2013#146

sixpackshaker

At least this show was not the monster of the week...

Just the super weapon of the week.

Oct 2, 2013#147

ScytheRexx

Don't get me wrong, I would love Hydra to come back and become the main villain force, I just don't need Coulson adding "remember the movie Captain America?" every time it happens.

Oct 2, 2013#148

Reverent-one

ScytheRexx said:
Also is it just me, but does Melinda feel like a huge attempt by the writers to get Black Widow into the show WITHOUT Black Widow? It's like they assumed they could use Black Widow in the show, but then realized they couldn't, and so changed the name on the script to Melinda, added a bit of a "Does not want to fight" angle to her background and called it a day.

I don't think that's the case at all. For one, why would they think they could get Scarlett Johansson in the first place? The number of TV shows where she's played a recurring role in is 0. Even without that, other than being female and able to kick butt (which a large number of shield agents should be able to do) she has nothing in common with Widow. Ward's more the Widow type of agent, he's explicity compared to her in terms of skills in the opener and does the solo infiltration-and-kick-butt thing we've seen Widow do. May's nickname is "The Calvary", implying she comes in to other missions when there's trouble and salavages things.

Oct 2, 2013#149

ScytheRexx

Reverent-one said:
I don't think that's the case at all. For one, why would they think they could get Scarlett Johansson in the first place? The number of TV shows where she's played a recurring role in is 0. Even without that, other than being female and able to kick butt (which a large number of shield agents should be able to do) she has nothing in common with Widow. Ward's more the Widow type of agent, he's explicity compared to her in terms of skills in the opener and does the solo infiltration-and-kick-butt thing we've seen Widow do. May's nickname is "The Calvary", implying she comes in to other missions when there's trouble and salavages things.

My thing about them writing in Black Widow and replacing her with Melinda was a joke. It's just the fact that the two seem overly similar skill wise. Melinda is a skilled martial artist, has a knack for infiltration (remember her sneaking up on that soldier in the last episode with a dislocated wrist?), a talented pilot (Black Widow is an ace pilot), and a very skilled gunman.

I don't really see Ward as the Widow-type. Yes, I know they said he was close to Widow's skill in the first episode, but after that we have seen him pretty much outmatched by Melinda at every turn. He takes out one guy? Melinda takes out three. He is tied up and can't get free? Melinda dislocates her wrist off to escape. Even the first episode has Ward actually struggling with two guys in that apartment, TWO GUYS that he beats up with kitchenware. Black Widow took out a whole frigging building full of goons in IM2, a mobster and his goons while tied to a chair in Avengers, and later took on an army of aliens. The fact they even compared Ward to her is a joke. Melinda fits the role much closer as the badass hand-to-hand assassin.

Oct 2, 2013#150

Reverent-one

ScytheRexx said:
My thing about them writing in Black Widow and replacing her with Melinda was a joke. It's just the fact that the two seem overly similar skill wise. Melinda is a skilled martial artist, has a knack for infiltration (remember her sneaking up on that soldier in the last episode with a dislocated wrist?), a talented pilot (Black Widow is an ace pilot), and a very skilled gunman.

I don't really see Ward as the Widow-type. Yes, I know they said he was close to Widow's skill in the first episode, but after that we have seen him pretty much outmatched by Melinda at every turn. He takes out one guy? Melinda takes out three. He is tied up and can't get free? Melinda dislocates her wrist off to escape. Even the first episode has Ward actually struggling with two guys in that apartment, TWO GUYS that he beats up with kitchenware. Black Widow took out a whole frigging building full of goons in IM2, a mobster and his goons while tied to a chair in Avengers, and later took on an army of aliens. The fact they even compared Ward to her is a joke. Melinda fits the role much closer as the badass hand-to-hand assassin.

Piloting's the only one of all those skills that you could say isn't something most or all SHIELD Field agents should be good with. May's demonstrated no skill in infiltration of the "disguse and act like someone else" type, and like I said doesn't seem to be used in the same way as SHIELD uses Widow (that would be Ward). Her personality is gruffer and more terse than Widow, and I can't see her putting up the seductive act that Widow does at times. Yes, like Widow she's badass, but that's such a non-specific thing, especially in a show about secret agents, and they definitely need more than just 2 out the six characters to be combat ready.

Oct 2, 2013#151

ScytheRexx

Reverent-one said:
Piloting's the only one of all those skills that you could say isn't something most or all SHIELD Field agents should be good with.

I think you are giving the "average" field agent too much credit here. Remember, the average agent was getting killed by IronMonger in IM1, later on they were getting drop kicked by a depowered Thor or blown up by the Destroyer. I will give Ward credit that he is likely above the average when it comes to field agents, but he has shown little skill in anything other then gunmanship. I think that is my biggest problem with him as a character, they talk him up but have yet to even attempt to deliver it. The first showing of his skills with infiltration, he gets caught after two seconds with his hand in the cookie jar. He then gets into a fight and pretty much brawls his way out of it, not showing much in the way of finesse.

May's demonstrated no skill in infiltration of the "disguse and act like someone else" type, and like I said doesn't seem to be used in the same way as SHIELD uses Widow (that would be Ward)

Neither has Ward, really, unless you count him walking around in the first episode stealing plates as him trying to be "someone else." Melinda could have very well done those roles too, depending on what was needed. As for how SHIELD uses Widow, they use her for whatever they damn well please, whether an infiltrator in IM2, or a pilot/combat specialist in Avengers, which is close to how they are creating Melinda (remember, she was only supposed to be the pilot, not a combat specialist like she has started to become.)

Her personality is gruffer and more terse than Widow, and I can't see her putting up the seductive act that Widow does at times. Yes, like Widow she's badass, but that's such a non-specific thing, especially in a show about secret agents, and they definitely need more than just 2 out the six characters to be combat ready.

She is "gruffer" because they can't just take Black Widow point for point and make her an older asian woman, that was part of my joke about how they just changed her backstory. I think you kind of missed the point in that I think Melinda is supposed to be the "badass take on the world like a boss" chick that Black Widow plays. I never was trying to get into the specifics of their SHIELD dockets or clearance levels of service.

Oct 2, 2013#152

Reverent-one

ScytheRexx said:
I think you are giving the "average" field agent too much credit here. Remember, the average agent was getting killed by IronMonger in IM1, later on they were getting drop kicked by a depowered Thor or blown up by the Destroyer. I will give Ward credit that he is likely above the average when it comes to field agents, but he has shown little skill in anything other then gunmanship. I think that is my biggest problem with him as a character, they talk him up but have yet to even attempt to deliver it. The first showing of his skills with infiltration, he gets caught after two seconds with his hand in the cookie jar. He then gets into a fight and pretty much brawls his way out of it, not showing much in the way of finesse.

The exact level of skill varies, sure, but simply saying they both have generic skills X, Y, and Z doesn't make then the same character.

Neither has Ward, really, unless you count him walking around in the first episode stealing plates as him trying to be "someone else." Melinda could have very well done those roles too, depending on what was needed. As for how SHIELD uses Widow, they use her for whatever they damn well please, whether an infiltrator in IM2, or a pilot/combat specialist in Avengers, which is close to how they are creating Melinda (remember, she was only supposed to be the pilot, not a combat specialist like she has started to become.)

As it's used as an establishing mission for Ward, I do count that. And barring a massive alien invasion being underway, we see Widow primarily being used as a solo infiltrator (IM2 and the mission she was on when interrupted in The Avengers). Things we don't see May having any inclination towards.

She is "gruffer" because they can't just take Black Widow point for point and make her an older asian woman, that was part of my joke about how they just changed her backstory. I think you kind of missed the point in that I think Melinda is supposed to be the "badass take on the world like a boss" chick that Black Widow plays. I never was trying to get into the specifics of their SHIELD dockets or clearance levels of service.

A female who can kick a lot of butt isn't a character, it's an association of two character traits. You might as well say May is River post-Serenity or Echo from Dollhouse. Those personality differences that you wave off are the things that make the character a character and why she isn't just Widow with a different name.

Oct 2, 2013#153

ScytheRexx

Reverent-one said:
A female who can kick a lot of butt isn't a character, it's an association of two character traits. You might as well say May is River post-Serenity or Echo from Dollhouse. Those personality differences that you wave off are the things that make the character a character and why she isn't just Widow with a different name.

Good point, but I think the difference for me is that said characters like River or Echo is that they were for the most part unique in their universes. That was what made them "special". You can't make every female a Buffy.

Melinda has the bad trait of existing in the same universe as Black Widow, working for the same group, and becoming the main badass female poster child of SHIELD for the tv series to counter Black Widow being that for the movies respectively, so you can't deny that the two will be compared.

Oct 2, 2013#154

Reverent-one

ScytheRexx said:
Good point, but I think the difference for me is that said characters like River or Echo is that they were for the most part unique in their universes. That was what made them "special". You can't make every female a Buffy.

Melinda has the bad trait of existing in the same universe as Black Widow, working for the same group, and becoming the main badass female poster child of SHIELD for the tv series to counter Black Widow being that for the movies respectively, so you can't deny that the two will be compared.

Sure they'll be compared, but you can compare two characters without one being another version of the other. Like they already compared Ward to Widow. My objection is more about that saying they just changed the name on the script and added a line to her backstory implies they're basically the same character. While I agree they have similarities, as befits characters who have similar jobs, I find May to be a distinct character.

Oct 2, 2013#155

ScytheRexx

Reverent-one said:
Sure they'll be compared, but you can compare two characters without one being another version of the other. Like they already compared Ward to Widow. My objection is more about that saying they just changed the name on the script and added a line to her backstory implies they're basically the same character. While I agree they have similarities, as befits characters who have similar jobs, I find May to be a distinct character.

I will stress again that part was more a joke. I don't think they are actually literally the same character with a name change.

Oct 2, 2013#156

Shawn

Coulson has quite the team built. 1) A marksman who can shoot things, bitch about how pathetic the rest of the team is, and fall in love with the most pathetic of the team.
2) The Black Widow character who isn't he Black Widow and who's only emotion is "annoyed face".
3) The fumbling scientists who complete each other's sentences, are completely inept in the field, and are only not screwing each other because they are so nerdy that neither of them has the courage to ask each other out.
4) Skye. Kinda like the Doctor, Coulson is apparently okay with picking up random strangers whom he has gut feelings about.

I hope at the end of season 2 Ultron completely obliterates them all just as an intro for Avengers 2.

Oct 2, 2013#157

AshburnerX

I'm almost certain that Coulson picked up Skye to use her as a way to monitor the Rising Tide. He's not stupid.

Oct 3, 2013#158

Ravenpoe

Shawnacy said:
3) The fumbling scientists who complete each other's sentences, are completely inept in the field, and are only not screwing each other because they are so nerdy that neither of them has the courage to ask each other out.

What? I don't see any sexual tension there whatsoever. They're more like siblings. Fitz also isn't too nerdy to show his fumbling infatuation with Skye.

Oct 3, 2013#159

Shakey

A raft? WTF...

Oct 3, 2013#160

Espy

Heard ratings were way down second episode.

I've thought it from the start but I will be sad if it's true: This show will probably not survive and it has nothing to do with Whedon. People want the Avengers. Just like I think a Gotham show without Batman won't survive. People just won't go for it in the long run.

Oct 3, 2013#161

Covar

Espy said:
Heard ratings were way down second episode.

I've thought it from the start but I will be sad if it's true: This show will probably not survive and it has nothing to do with Whedon. People want the Avengers. Just like I think a Gotham show without Batman won't survive. People just won't go for it in the long run.

Hell you can look at this thread and see the large number of complaints that boil down to "It's not Avengers."

Oct 3, 2013#162

ScytheRexx

The issue is when most people think of Marvel, they do think of super-heroes, not a regular ragtag group of humans. The first episode had Michael, but the second episode was pretty much void of any super-human abilities. Just them versus some soldiers. I think the expectation in the end will be what kills it, audiences likely will want more "heroes" showing up.

Oct 3, 2013#163

Gusto

I watched this. I like it so far!

But I find myself falling into both the spinoff series trap and the Whedon trap. Spending too much energy looking for main series references and characters, and Whedon alum, respectively.

Oct 3, 2013#164

ThatNickGuy

I'm quickly losing interest in the show, honestly. It's not that it's bad, it's just not as good as what I was expecting. I thought the second episode was better and maybe a little more in line with what I was expecting: espionage spy stuff. That's more of what SHIELD always was rather than superhero stuff. They were the clean-up crew after The Avengers did their business or were the canon fodder to blow up when shit goes down. The Helicarrier being boarded or blown up is a very common trope.

I think the problem is that the way the show was promoted, we thought Coulson was the main character. But really, he's the new Giles for the new Scooby Gang ala Buffy. And unfortunately, none of this Scooby Gang are really very interested to me.

Oct 3, 2013#165

Shawn

ThatNickGuy said:
I'm quickly losing interest in the show, honestly. It's not that it's bad, it's just not as good as what I was expecting. I thought the second episode was better and maybe a little more in line with what I was expecting: espionage spy stuff. That's more of what SHIELD always was rather than superhero stuff. They were the clean-up crew after The Avengers did their business or were the canon fodder to blow up when shit goes down. The Helicarrier being boarded or blown up is a very common trope.

I think the problem is that the way the show was promoted, we thought Coulson was the main character. But really, he's the new Giles for the new Scooby Gang ala Buffy. And unfortunately, none of this Scooby Gang are really very interested to me.

I think you hit the nail on the head there. The problem with the show isn't necessarily the lack of super heroes, it's the lack of a team built with the capability of dealing with Super Heroes and similar threats. They got close with this last episode. They were dealing with a powerful weapon that was fueled by alien tech. Great start. Even the fact that there were no super heroes or villains involved, and just mortals is perfectly fine and perfect for the show. Ward's energy staff was also excellent. A nice device that looks like it could deal with some massive threats.
Whedon has plenty of potential with the show. He can make it work. Sadly... I think his issue right now is his characters. Not something you typically find issue in when it comes to Whedon. I think his problem is that he wants that colorful group of misfits that seem common with his writing, and is trying to forcefully add them to a show that's about the ultimate team of professionals. We should see five "Black Widows" on the team.
I highly doubt, that Fury would have appointed Coulson to Section 7, gave him his own team, and said "pick whoever... I don' fuckin' care."

Shows like Firefly work because the characters have wonderful strengths and flaws that make the characters work well together and rub each other the wrong way at the same time. No one was perfect, but they were all good at what they did. They needed each other.
I can forgive Fitz-Simmons. They at least have the technical skill to be useful. But I just can't appreciate Skye. As far as I can tell she's the Ma-ti of the show. She brings the power of "Heart" and "togetherness."

Oct 3, 2013#166

ThatNickGuy

Shawnacy said:
I highly doubt, that Fury would have appointed Coulson to Section 7, gave him his own team, and said "pick whoever... I don' fuckin' care."

Maybe Level 7 isn't even a thing. Can you imagine that? The whole thing was designed just to see how much potential this Life Model Decoy of Coulson can go?

"Give the thing a team, a small budget made from Stark's couch change, and toss it to the wind."

Oct 3, 2013#167

Ravenpoe

ThatNickGuy said:
Maybe Level 7 isn't even a thing. Can you imagine that? The whole thing was designed just to see how much potential this Life Model Decoy of Coulson can go?

"Give the thing a team, a small budget made from Stark's couch change, and toss it to the wind."

I actually assumed that's what this was. It's clear that Coulson (or RepliCoulson) is no longer a favorite of shield, and is working with table scraps.

Oct 3, 2013#168

Covar

Sky is most likely a ~~mutant~~ person with random super powers. They keep stating how she can do all this crazy hacking with nothing. She's Amadeus Cho.

Oct 3, 2013#169

Shakey

Ravenpoe said:
I actually assumed that's what this was. It's clear that Coulson (or RepliCoulson) is no longer a favorite of shield, and is working with table scraps.

That's what I thought too. But what bothers me most is that they used a freaking rubber inflatable raft to fix a nine foot wide hole in an airborne plane. The hell.

Oct 3, 2013#170

MindDetective

Shakey said:
That's what I thought too. But what bothers me most is that they used a freaking rubber inflatable raft to fix a nine foot wide hole in an airborne plane. The hell.

It was just a mild suction. Easy to patch with whatever is lying around.

Oct 3, 2013#171

Shakey

MindDetective said:
It was just a mild suction. Easy to patch with whatever is lying around.

Oct 3, 2013#172

AshburnerX

Shakey said:
That's what I thought too. But what bothers me most is that they used a freaking rubber inflatable raft to fix a nine foot wide hole in an airborne plane. The hell.

Mark my words: We're going to see this on Mythbusters.

Oct 3, 2013#173

phil

My knee jerk fanboy reaction is that this is a SHIELD show with 2 actual agents and no helicarrier and no real superheroes that I can root for. I don't actually care, but I want to. It's really going to need to pick up some aspect of those things if it wants to last a bit longer, at least to me.

Oct 3, 2013#174

klew

Shawnacy said:
Ward's energy staff was also excellent. A nice device that looks like it could deal with some massive threats.

Used near identically in Serenity by Simon when rescuing River.

Oct 3, 2013#175

Reverent-one

Shawnacy said:
I think you hit the nail on the head there. The problem with the show isn't necessarily the lack of super heroes, it's the lack of a team built with the capability of dealing with Super Heroes and similar threats. They got close with this last episode. They were dealing with a powerful weapon that was fueled by alien tech. Great start. Even the fact that there were no super heroes or villains involved, and just mortals is perfectly fine and perfect for the show. Ward's energy staff was also excellent. A nice device that looks like it could deal with some massive threats.
Whedon has plenty of potential with the show. He can make it work. Sadly... I think his issue right now is his characters. Not something you typically find issue in when it comes to Whedon. I think his problem is that he wants that colorful group of misfits that seem common with his writing, and is trying to forcefully add them to a show that's about the ultimate team of professionals. We should see five "Black Widows" on the team.

How boring that would be. Make a set of characters with similar badass abilities and they don't seem really badass or special anymore.

I can forgive Fitz-Simmons. They at least have the technical skill to be useful. But I just can't appreciate Skye. As far as I can tell she's the Ma-ti of the show. She brings the power of "Heart" and "togetherness."

She's been on one mission that didn't require hacking, give her a chance. And they're pointing towards giving her more training so that she's not dependent on hacking needing to be done to contribute.

phil said:
My knee jerk fanboy reaction is that this is a SHIELD show with 2 actual agents and no helicarrier and no real superheroes that I can root for. I don't actually care, but I want to. It's really going to need to pick up some aspect of those things if it wants to last a bit longer, at least to me.

So which of Coulson, Ward, and May are you not considering an agent?

Oct 3, 2013#176

Shawn

klew said:
Used near identically in Serenity by Simon when rescuing River.

I thought that seemed familiar. Well... I'd call it stealing... but as it's Whedon we'll just call it "Out of ideas."

Oct 3, 2013#177

Reverent-one

Espy said:
Heard ratings were way down second episode.

I've thought it from the start but I will be sad if it's true: This show will probably not survive and it has nothing to do with Whedon. People want the Avengers. Just like I think a Gotham show without Batman won't survive. People just won't go for it in the long run.

To be fair, the opener had the highest ratings for a drama in like four years. Ratings falling off, even significantly, isn't too surprising.

Oct 4, 2013#178

@Li3n

AshburnerX said:
Mark my words: We're going to see this on Mythbusters.

We already did, with he explosive decompression thing... they wouldn't actually need the raft.

Oct 4, 2013#179

Fun Size

I think the problems are mostly too high expectations.

As to specific issues, I guess I would say this: I will be absolutely stunned if Joss and the good people at Marvel haven't already thought of all of these protests. It strikes me that the questions that are being brought up here - why the Hell would he be given permission to build this team of misfits specifically - seem like the sort of long-term, slow burn issues that become part of a series once you get past the "meet the new crew and watch them congeal into a team" shenanigans that are by necessity the beginning of a new series.

Maybe I'm wrong and this is as good as it gets, but it seems like the jump in quality from the pilot (which was rough but I didn't hate) to the latest episode was more than enough for a season commitment from me.

Oct 4, 2013#180

@Li3n

My high expectations is that they reveal SHIELD as the international agency it was back in the days it didn't have Homeland in its name, and reveal that internationally it's still Supreme Headquarters, International Espionage, Law-Enforcement Division (they changed it to make it more palatable to the US public once they where forced to go public, obviously - in show explanation) .

Oct 4, 2013#181

phil

Reverent-one said:
How boring that would be. Make a set of characters with similar badass abilities and they don't seem really badass or special anymore.

She's been on one mission that didn't require hacking, give her a chance. And they're pointing towards giving her more training so that she's not dependent on hacking needing to be done to contribute.

So which of Coulson, Ward, and May are you not considering an agent?

Coulson. He really hasn't done anything except tell everyone else to get it done. He's the leader so it's going to be rare for us to see him do much of anything.

Oct 4, 2013#182

Reverent-one

phil said:
Coulson. He really hasn't done anything except tell everyone else to get it done. He's the leader so it's going to be rare for us to see him do much of anything.

Really? Seems like he's done quite a bit.

Lead Skye's interrogation/recruitment
Took the lead in the field dealing with Mike, was the one to talk him down
Participated in the fight with the rebels in episode 2

About the the only thing he's not been with the rest of the team on is taking back the plane as he was captured seperately.

Oct 4, 2013#183

phil

Reverent-one said:
Really? Seems like he's done quite a bit.

Lead Skye's interrogation/recruitment

Took the lead in the field dealing with Mike, was the one to talk him down

Participated in the fight with the rebels in episode 2

About the the only thing he's not been with the rest of the team on is taking back the plane as he was captured seperately.

I mean sure, he's contributed. When him and that lady were cappin' fools in the jungle it was ok. Otherwise he's just kinda..there, ya know? Really similar to the movies, I feel. I guess I'm still waiting for that moment when he does something truly badass to show why he's in charge other than the fact that they're giving the guy who got shanked by a god his own team.

Oct 4, 2013#184

Necronic

The problem is that Coulson is a supporting character. They are all supporting characters. There is no one I care about. I was really excited when the first episode started think "OMG that's Luke Cage" which could have been an interesting character for the show to pivot on for a bit, and then had my hopes dashed. The fact that Marvel doesn't want to burn any of its IP on this show really illustrates how little they are invested in it. Which translates into me not being invested in it/.

Oct 5, 2013#185

Tress

Holy shit that was a dumb ending.

The show still has potential. It just needs to stop being stupid with the writing and make the characters more compelling.

Oct 5, 2013#186

Necronic

Or, you know, follow the one major requirement of a Marvel show and include a fucking superhero.

Oct 5, 2013#187

Shawn

Necronic said:
Or, you know, follow the one major requirement of a Marvel show and include a fucking superhero.

Fuck superheroes. I want a super-villain!

Oct 5, 2013#188

ThatNickGuy

Necronic said:
Or, you know, follow the one major requirement of a Marvel show and include a fucking superhero.

Why? By its nature alone, SHIELD is international spy and espionage. Using all sorts of cool gadgets, stopping dangerous weapons, and thwarting madmen, sure, but it's not superheroic stuff with capes, cowls, and powers.

Oct 5, 2013#189

AshburnerX

ThatNickGuy said:
Why? By its nature alone, SHIELD is international spy and espionage. Using all sorts of cool gadgets, stopping dangerous weapons, and thwarting madmen, sure, but it's not superheroic stuff with capes, cowls, and powers.

Exactly. That being said, they REALLY need to introduce a primary antagonist soon. The Rising Tide is too small scale to take that slot... we really need Hydra or AIM. However, I suspect that Hydra's going to make it's appearance as the show's main villains right around the time that Captain America: Winter Soldier comes out (May, I think.)

Oct 6, 2013#190

Bowielee

AshburnerX said:
Exactly. That being said, they REALLY need to introduce a primary antagonist soon. The Rising Tide is too small scale to take that slot... we really need Hydra or AIM. However, I suspect that Hydra's going to make it's appearance as the show's main villains right around the time that Captain America: Winter Soldier comes out (May, I think.)

I'm fairly certain that the Rising Tide is going to be a small part of a larger organization.

I'm actually starting to warm up to the show as of the second half of the last episode.

That being said, it won't last past one season.

Oct 6, 2013#191

AshburnerX

Bowielee said:
That being said, it won't last past one season.

I dunno... Disney's putting some serious cash into this. If they are just keeping it around for marketing reasons (to foreshadow developments in upcoming movies for instance) then the show might be around for awhile. Disney's spent more money for less and at least SHIELD would keep Marvel in the public eye, which it currently doesn't unless you have a cable package with Disney XD or the Hub. Really, if the show is just supposed to be a promotion tool, it's going to be around until Avengers 2 and then they'll kill the cast in the movie.

If it's going to be cancelled, it's going to be cancelled for running against NCIS. It's the same type of show... but with a better, proven cast, support from the US Navy, already part of a long running franchise (NCIS succeeded JAG, so they have almost 20 years of backstory at this point) and a lower cost. I have no idea how SHIELD is supposed to compete against it, except that it already has the in-built Marvel movie and comic audience.

Oct 6, 2013#192

IronBrig4

What S.H.I.E.L.D.-affiliated superheroes are feasible? Furthermore, which of those superheroes don't already have huge movie deals that might keep their actors or actresses from signing on as anything more than a cameo appearance? Spider-Woman and Ms. Marvel are the only two who come to mind.

Oct 6, 2013#193

ScytheRexx

I wouldn't say they have to be affiliated or even appear in every episode. It would just be nice to see them involved in an episode or two. Though it would be nice if they got someone like Hawkeye as a regular, though I am sure Jeremey Renner would rather stick to movies.

Didn't they get back to rights for Daredevil? He would be an interesting cameo down the line. And I still hold out for them to turn Michael into Luke Cage and form the Heroes for Hire.

Oct 6, 2013#194

phil

Couldn't they introduce characters to secure film rights or something? Do an episode with someone you're not too sure about like, Iron Fist And see how the ratings go. If it goes well you cab do an IF movie. Have him appear in one episode, and then again with Luke Cage or whatever and kinda test the waters.

Oct 6, 2013#195

Tress

Basically take any superhero/villain that wouldn't be big enough to carry their own movie. There's plenty from which to choose. Off the top of my head: Black Panther, Iron Fist and/or Luke Cage, Namor, Cloak & Dagger, Moon Knight.

Hell, take almost any past or present member of the Avengers and insert them into the show. If they become a hit, give them a role in the movie. They have a myriad number of options here.

Oct 8, 2013#196

Frank

So there we go, first actual super villain.

And I imagine he's gonna be SUPER depowered. That character's comic (and or cartoon) incarnation is a little out of this team's league.

Oct 8, 2013#197

IronBrig4

Hell, he's almost out of the Avengers' league. This is a guy who can nearly defeat all the Avengers and even hold his own against Thor.

Oct 8, 2013#198

ScytheRexx

I find it kind of funny since Graviton was the first real big super villain threat the Avengers took down in the recent Avengers cartoon, and one of the reasons they decided to work together after he almost destroys New York. Going to be weird if they make him the enemy of a ragtag group of agents.

Oct 9, 2013#199

Gusto

During the third act of this episode, I was literally doing the Inception horn blasts.

BWAAAAAAAAAAAAHHH

Oct 9, 2013#200

HCGLNS

Skye = Mockingbird

<pic>headblowngif</pic>

Oct 9, 2013#201

ScytheRexx

HCGLNS said:
Skye = Mockingbird

<pic>headblowngif</pic>

You might be on to something actually...

http://www.ksitetv.com/mockingbird/marvel-tv-who-is-mockingbird/7354

This was mentioned at Comic-Con in 2011 and was going to be on ABC, which is right now the home of Agents of SHIELD. It could be they took whatever they were working on for Mockingbird and decided to roll it into Agents of SHIELD. It would help explain why Skye is getting most of the development over the last three episodes.

Oct 9, 2013#202

ThatNickGuy

Well, I think I might be done with the show. Latest episode wasn't bad, like the others. It just wasn't very interesting. None of the characters, sadly including Coulson, are interesting or engaging. I don't know whether to blame the writing or the actors on that, honestly. And the stories themselves aren't very interesting, either.

What really bugs me is that this is the first Whedon show that I've described as having bland characters and uninteresting stories.

Oct 9, 2013#203

Frank

The show isn't good, that's for sure.

Oct 9, 2013#204

ThatNickGuy

stienman said:
Aside from movies, isn't this the first show he's done that wasn't largely his own brainchild? I wonder if he's having problems directing something that doesn't fit him.

That's quite possible, too. This is a much larger production and not entirely in his hands.

There are little snippets and moments of "Whedonisms" in the show, but they're far and few between. Like, at the very start of this episode with the trucker. If it were 100% a Whedon show, the trucker would've been listening to something that wasn't a cliche. He'd be listening to some fluffy dance pop or something just to throw off the viewer.

The other thing I keep forgetting is that one of the other show runners for this is Jeph Loeb, who is a terrible terrible writer.

Oct 9, 2013#205

Ravenpoe

ThatNickGuy said:
The other thing I keep forgetting is that one of the other show runners for this is Jeph Loeb

Oh god, what? Why?

Oct 9, 2013#206

Frank

Because he fails upwardly.

Oct 9, 2013#207

HCGLNS

It's a network show designed to help grow the Marvel brand amongst the masses. Why are you all expecting Shakespeare?

Oct 9, 2013#208

Frank

HCGLNS said:
It's a network show designed to help grow the Marvel brand amongst the masses. Why are you all expecting Shakespeare?

No, but I was hoping for something more than a poorly written A-Team with none of the charisma.

Oct 10, 2013#209

Espy

HCGLNS said:
It's a network show designed to help grow the Marvel brand amongst the masses. Why are you all expecting Shakespeare?

Thats why it's hard to describe this as a "Whedon" show. It's a "By the EXECUTIVE TEAM that brought you... uh, nothing actually, but they were handed this by the EXECUTIVE TEAM that financed THE AVENGERS!"

Oct 10, 2013#210

sixpackshaker

ScytheRexx said:
You might be on to something actually...

http://www.ksitetv.com/mockingbird/marvel-tv-who-is-mockingbird/7354

This was mentioned at Comic-Con in 2011 and was going to be on ABC, which is right now the home of Agents of SHIELD. It could be they took whatever they were working on for Mockingbird and decided to roll it into Agents of SHIELD. It would help explain why Skye is getting most of the development over the last three episodes.

Skye gets the screen time because she is the most normal character on the show. She is our eyes on the workings of SHIELD.

Oct 10, 2013#211

BananaHands

I was kind of avoiding this thread since the show aired because I figured it'd get all this naysaying.

You naysayers.

The show is fun. It's a bit cheesy but it also shares the same universe as a guy who turns green when he stubs his toe. We also have a show where you can see the origin of an obscure character like Gravitron.

C'mon, guys.

Oct 10, 2013#212

BananaHands

Also if you didn't like the last episode/post-credits thing then we can just not be "top 8" friends on myspace and you can deal with it.

Oct 10, 2013#213

Tiger Tsang

BananaHands said:
Also if you didn't like the last episode/post-credits thing then we can just not be "top 8" friends on myspace and you can deal with it.

Grrrrr, I need to set my DVR to record a few extra minutes, I think that'll mess up another recording, though.

Oct 10, 2013#214

BananaHands

Tiger Tsang said:
Grrrrr, I need to set my DVR to record a few extra minutes, I think that'll mess up another recording, though.

They lock up the device Hall was working on, cuts to the inside where the gravitonium is going all crazy... and...

Oct 10, 2013#215

Sparhawk

I think that they're taking a little slower approach to this than you guys are wanting. You've got the workings now of a "team hero" in Skye, and the first "big bad" of the series, I think they're purposely taking it a little slower than Heroes did, to keep it from having to go full-blown comic book soap opera in season two.

I have gone into this wanting to see how they translated this into a larger universe to work from in the future. We (all of us here) are the exception to what they're working from on a knowledge base of the world they are building.

Oct 11, 2013#216

Shakey

I'm liking it so far. It's just a fun show. I have a feeling it'll really come into itself as it goes on.

Oct 11, 2013#217

ScytheRexx

I am still pretty sure this is mostly just build up. I think it will hit it's stride later, I just hope they keep enough viewers to make it worth it.

Also, and maybe it's just me, but I wanted a bit more of a cohesive narrative between each episode with a constant antagonist. Right now, other then the whole stuff with Skye, each episode feels pretty self-contained. That is fine for certain shows like L&O or NCIS, but I feel like AoS needs to really focus more on each episode leading into the next, with more cliffhangers and characters getting pulled into that long range story. This is why I feel we need to settle on a villain group soon, since the conflict between the two forces will better help tie the stories together rather then just having them seemingly globetrotting from place to place randomly.

Oct 16, 2013#218

IronBrig4

Anybody else catch the latest episode?

Oct 16, 2013#219

Krisken

Watching it now...

Oct 16, 2013#220

Covar

I liked it.

Oct 16, 2013#221

D

Dubyamn

ScytheRexx said:
I am still pretty sure this is mostly just build up. I think it will hit it's stride later, I just hope they keep enough viewers to make it worth it.

Also, and maybe it's just me, but I wanted a bit more of a cohesive narrative between each episode with a constant antagonist. Right now, other then the whole stuff with Skye, each episode feels pretty self-contained. That is fine for certain shows like L&O or NCIS, but I feel like AoS needs to really focus more on each episode leading into the next, with more cliffhangers and characters getting pulled into that long range story. This is why I feel we need to settle on a villain group soon, since the conflict between the two forces will better help tie the stories together rather then just having them seemingly globetrotting from place to place randomly.

I think that there have been good examples of a shadowy group opposing SHEILD with the centipede project and the controller who is also being controlled. Now we just need a distinct operative or controller and a name to really get started on the myth arc of AOS.

Oct 16, 2013#222

IronBrig4

It was good, although I'd really like to see a street-level villain sometime. Paste-Pot Pete, anyone?

Oct 16, 2013#223

ScytheRexx

I would love to see Absorbing Man.

Madame Hydra was also high on my list if they brought back Hydra, but then they had her in that new shitty Wolvarine movie as some snake mutant, which has dashed my hopes.

One thing they could do to tie in with the new Thor movie is bring in a smaller Thor villain. I would love to see Amora, but she is a bit out of the league of this team, so maybe have Skurge down on the ground running errands for her, and the agents having to stop him.

Oct 17, 2013#224

Fun Size

Saw it last night, and I think io9 hit it on the head - this one worked better because they moved away from trying to be a Marvel Universe/Joss Whedon joint and started becoming a show about spies dealing with similarly or better equipped spies. I love the Marvel stuff, and going from your comments they have a lot to draw from given the history of SHIELD (I'm not typing all the damned periods) in the comics, but I think they might do best being a spy show that occasionally has to deal with superhero/supervillian fallout.

Oct 17, 2013#225

BananaHands

There were some great moments in this. Next weeks episode looks fun too.

Oct 17, 2013#226

Fun Size

Also, this was the first episode where the humor felt like it flowed. It wasn't bad before, but this week it felt a lot more natural.

Oct 22, 2013#227

ScytheRexx

Finally getting some plot movement.

Was a bit surprised they ended the whole thing with Skye and the Rising Tide so quickly. I know the Rising Tide still technically exists, but all that stuff Skye was saying on the phone ended up being her hacker boyfriend. Found that a bit anti-climactic, though now they can officially get her back onto the team without that "Will she betray them!?" hanging over the plot.

It also looks like this "Centipede" group is building itself nicely.

I am kind of wondering if they are having issues retaining some rights on characters though, "Scorch" is not even a b-list hero from the comics, then again that made it all the easier to have him killed off I guess.

Oct 22, 2013#228

Sparhawk

ScytheRexx said:
Finally getting some plot movement.

It also looks like this "Centipede" group is building itself nicely.

I am kind of wondering if they are having issues retaining some rights on characters though, "Scorch" is not even a b-list hero from the comics, then again that made it all the easier to have him killed off I guess.

I think that the use of "Scorch" was more of a throw away to be able to kill him, they didn't want to bring a "real" character into the show just to kill him in an hour. I wouldn't want them to waste a character that way either. I think that some of the b-listers could be used to more realistic use in the show than they are in the comics.

I still think that they are building a pretty good world in the show. I think that they would lose too many, quickly, if they jumped full-bore into the Marvel Universe and all the stuff that is constantly running around in there. Would be fun for those of us that know it, but people, like my wife, that don't know all of it would drop it as quickly as they dropped Heroes.

Oct 22, 2013#229

BananaHands

Goddamn.

The last ten minutes of this show...

Also, holy shit ABC. Didn't think I'd see a woman burn to death on you.

[DOUBLEPOST=1382500011,1382499779][/DOUBLEPOST]Oh and also:

It's adorable to see AIM's suits in their development stage.

Oct 23, 2013#230

Frank

ScytheRexx said:
One thing they could do to tie in with the new Thor movie is bring in a smaller Thor villain. I would love to see Amora, but she is a bit out of the league of this team, so maybe have Skurge down on the ground running errands for her, and the agents having to stop him.

Really, if they're setting up Graviton as a future adversary, very few of Marvel's villains would be above that league.

I liked the idea I'd read in a couple of places that would make centipede the work of High Evolutionary. I know it's a complete stretch, but I always liked that character.

Nov 5, 2013#231

IronBrig4

I thought this episode was pretty good, but I'm really excited for the episode two weeks from now. That's supposed to directly tie into Thor 2.

Nov 5, 2013#232

AshburnerX

Yeah, this show has really hit it's stride. This week and last week's episodes were pretty good.

Nov 6, 2013#233

Ravenpoe

AshburnerX said:
Yeah, this show has really hit it's stride. This week and last week's episodes were pretty good.

Wasn't last week's a repeat due to the world series?

Nov 6, 2013#234

AshburnerX

Ravenpoe said:
Wasn't last week's a repeat due to the world series?

You're right. I meant the week before that.

Nov 7, 2013#235

Shakey

This show definitely keeps getting better. I think it just needed time to find a good formula to work with, and for the cast to start clicking.

Nov 7, 2013#236

fade

Huh, I expected to see this show torn apart in here. I can't get into it at all. If it weren't for Coulson, I would've been gone long ago. I keep hoping they'll do something to subvert the off the shelf characters.

Nov 7, 2013#237

ThatNickGuy

fade said:
Huh, I expected to see this show torn apart in here. I can't get into it at all. If it weren't for Coulson, I would've been gone long ago. I keep hoping they'll do something to subvert the off the shelf characters.

Join the club, dude. I gave up on the show after three episodes.

Nov 8, 2013#238

Shakey

ThatNickGuy said:
Join the club, dude. I gave up on the show after three episodes.

If you gave up after 3 episodes you might be missing out. Like I said, it's getting better. I'd say the first three were the worst so far.

fade said:
Huh, I expected to see this show torn apart in here. I can't get into it at all. If it weren't for Coulson, I would've been gone long ago. I keep hoping they'll do something to subvert the off the shelf characters.

Coulson is probably my least favorite so far. He seems so awkward and ill fitting to his role. None of them stand out or are all that great, but it's becoming a fun show to watch.

Nov 8, 2013#239

Gusto

My main problem is that there really isn't a main character. This most recent episode was the best so far though, for at least half the cast.

Nov 8, 2013#240

SpecialKO

I really liked this last episode, which is good for the show because it was officially going to be my last episode as I hated all the previous ones.

Nov 9, 2013#241

IronBrig4

I'm wondering if they can connect these series as well. http://www.deadline.com/2013/11/disney-netflix-marvel-series/#more-629696

Nov 20, 2013#242

IronBrig4

Well, I thought last night's episode was great. A little more character development and it looks like Coulson's starting to realize his recovery experience just doesn't add up.

Like most American TV, however, they couldn't be bothered to use subtitles when dealing with foreign languages. Everybody just spoke heavily accented English instead.

Nov 20, 2013#243

Ravenpoe

IronBrig4 said:
Well, I thought last night's episode was great. A little more character development and it looks like Coulson's starting to realize his recovery experience just doesn't add up.

Like most American TV, however, they couldn't be bothered to use subtitles when dealing with foreign languages. Everybody just spoke heavily accented English instead.

Hey, if it's good enough for all of the asgardians to speak it...

Nov 20, 2013#244

Gusto

I watched like the first thirty seconds of this new episode and turned it off.

Does it spoil Thor: The Dark World? Or in any diminish it? I'm planning on seeing the movie next week sometime and I'd like to give that priority over this, if there's gonna be a conflict.

Please advise, thanks!

Nov 20, 2013#245

Ravenpoe

Gusto said:
I watched like the first thirty seconds of this new episode and turned it off.

Does it spoil Thor: The Dark World? Or in any diminish it? I'm planning on seeing the movie next week sometime and I'd like to give that priority over this, if there's gonna be a conflict.

Please advise, thanks!

It spoils that Thor came to earth.

That's about it. It doesn't reference anything about the new movie other than the fact that some mess was made. The rest of the episode has nothing to do with it (but does involve asgard)

Nov 20, 2013#246

HCGLNS

Gusto said:
I watched like the first thirty seconds of this new episode and turned it off.

Does it spoil Thor: The Dark World? Or in any diminish it? I'm planning on seeing the movie next week sometime and I'd like to give that priority over this, if there's gonna be a conflict.

Please advise, thanks!

When the Asgards came to Earth centuries ago, they formed the Norse mythology. When they left, they left something behind. Now the team must race to discover this ancient secret before it falls into the wrong hands.

Also a lot of WTF man! That's fucking messed up! And girls sighing over how hot Thor is. And Coulson reveals a new hobby, he's a card carrying member of the Pen Collectors of America.

Nov 20, 2013#247

Thread Necromancer

As usual I am a day late and a thread behind but I just caught this latest episode on Hulu since I don't have actual tv service. I feel similar as posted before me, the taste for this show really has been dwindling. I was excited about it, but the characters have felt cold, text book, and I could take or leave the show. With this episode I feel like I can give it some more time to see how it develops.

Nov 20, 2013#248

Covar

Gusto said:
I watched like the first thirty seconds of this new episode and turned it off.

Does it spoil Thor: The Dark World? Or in any diminish it? I'm planning on seeing the movie next week sometime and I'd like to give that priority over this, if there's gonna be a conflict.

Please advise, thanks!

Nothing that wasn't in the trailer. Oh, and Thor saved the day in Thor 2.

Nov 20, 2013#249

Shakey

Covar said:
Oh, and Thor saved the day in Thor 2.

Son of a bitch.

Nov 20, 2013#250

Tress

Covar said:
Nothing that wasn't in the trailer. Oh, and Thor saved the day in Thor 2.

Nov 21, 2013#251

Gusto

Am I the only one who caught onto the "It's a magical place" codephrase in the first goddamned episode? I didn't expect it to be a cold-sweat revelation to Coulson. It seemed like he was already picking up on it.

Nov 21, 2013#252

D

Dubyamn

Gusto said:
Am I the only one who caught onto the "It's a magical place" codephrase in the first goddamned episode? I didn't expect it to be a cold-sweat revelation to Coulson. It seemed like he was already picking up on it.

I picked up on it being odd especially how he kept on repeating it. Still have no idea what it would be a codephrase for.

Nov 21, 2013#253

HCGLNS

It's code for Disney World.

Nov 25, 2013#254

Frank

I find most of the main episode plots boring with little to make me care about them, but I still find myself wanting to know more about the overarching stuff. Basically, I've learned I can watch that final 30 second to a minute long, before the credits, after the final commercial break segment and be happy.

Nov 28, 2013#255

Shakey

The cast still feels a bit awkward in their roles. I do enjoy the shows though. It will never be a super hero power house, but it's a fun look at a different side of the super hero world.

Nov 30, 2013#256

ThatNickGuy

Dec 2, 2013#257

sixpackshaker

I will say my sub 10 year old nieces and nephews LOVE the show.

Dec 2, 2013#258

HCGLNS

Also Agent May is disturbingly hot. Like super nova lava in your socks hot.

Dec 2, 2013#259

Ravenpoe

HCGLNS said:
Also Agent May is disturbingly hot. Like super nova lava in your socks hot.

She is very attractive. And scary. I think these compound each other.

Dec 2, 2013#260

Frank

Yeah, Ming Na is remarkably well preserved for going on 50.

Dec 2, 2013#261

Ravenpoe

Goddamn, she's 50? Wow.

Dec 2, 2013#262

HCGLNS

Frank said:
Yeah, Ming Na is remarkably well preserved for going on 50.

HCGLNS knew this!

Dec 2, 2013#263

Gusto

I LOVE YOU AGENT MAY

1) Unapologetically takes the D, hits it and quits it.
2) Shoots tasers first, asks questions... reluctantly.
3) Kicks dangerous amounts of ass.
4) Looks incredible doing it.

Yesssss.

Dec 2, 2013#264

HCGLNS

Dec 3, 2013#265

Frank

The plot synopsis from the last episode sounds like one of those TNG Season 8 twitter ones (you should follow that if you don't).

The team investigates a woman with telekinetic powers, meanwhile Fitz and Simmons decide to play a prank on Skye!

Dec 3, 2013#266

IronBrig4

No new episode tonight, unfortunately. I need a break from all the sickeningly sweet Hallmark Christmas movies that flood my TV this time of year.

Dec 3, 2013#267

Krisken

I don't know how people working retail don't slit their wrists at work. I spent 4 hours last night working where they played Christmas music and I was ready to smack my skull against the wall to make it stop. I can't imagine 8 hours of it, 5 days a week.

Dec 3, 2013#268

Ravenpoe

Krisken said:
I don't know how people working retail don't slit their wrists at work. I spent 4 hours last night working where they played Christmas music and I was ready to smack my skull against the wall to make it stop. I can't imagine 8 hours of it, 5 days a week.

My very first job was working retail at a store that played Christmas music from October 1st to January 1st. They only had one cd, with 8 songs on it, that played on loop continuously.

To this day, I can't hear "Simply Having a Wonderful Christmas Time" without flying into a rage.

Dec 3, 2013#269

Krisken

Yeah, that one came up twice in the 4 hours. From a radio station. Thank goodness they only play that station on Mondays or I'd be doomed.

Dec 3, 2013#270

Covar

Ravenpoe said:
To this day, I can't hear "Simply Having a Wonderful Christmas Time" without flying into a rage.

Why is it that the two absolute worst Christmas songs of all time were written by two of the most talented songwriters of all time? I can only thank God that Ringo never wrote a Christmas song.

Dec 3, 2013#271

AshburnerX

IronBrig4 said:
No new episode tonight, unfortunately. I need a break from all the sickeningly sweet Hallmark Christmas movies that flood my TV this time of year.

The Hallmark Channel has made -12- new Christmas movies to show this Christmas. Let me say that again: The Hallmark Channel has made -12- new Christmas movies for this Christmas.

My parents are watching all of them.

Dec 3, 2013#272

sixpackshaker

AshburnerX said:
The Hallmark Channel has made -12- new Christmas movies to show this Christmas. Let me say that again: The Hallmark Channel has made -12- new Christmas movies for this Christmas.

My parents are watching all of them.

I had to sit through a cheap movie with Kevin Sorbo being taught something by being turned into Santa Claus. DAMN YOU HALLMARK CHANNEL!

Dec 3, 2013#273

Zappit

sixpackshaker said:
I had to sit through a cheap movie with Kevin Sorbo being taught something by being turned into Santa Claus. DAMN YOU HALLMARK CHANNEL!

Didn't Tim Allen do the same thing already? No...he didn't learn anything because he made two more of those terrible movies.

Dec 3, 2013#274

AshburnerX

Zappit said:
Didn't Tim Allen do the same thing already? No...he didn't learn anything because he made two more of those terrible movies.

I'll admit to enjoying the first movie, if only because we got to see Tim Allen be a COMPLETE ASSHOLE for awhile. The other movie were kinda boring though... especially the third one. Oh Martin Short... how did your career die so painfully?

Dec 3, 2013#275

Sparhawk

Krisken said:
I don't know how people working retail don't slit their wrists at work. I spent 4 hours last night working where they played Christmas music and I was ready to smack my skull against the wall to make it stop. I can't imagine 8 hours of it, 5 days a week.

I actually don't hear it. I really don't. It's not until somebody mentions the music, or asks what song is playing that I even hear it. We also mix it up, we'll play "traditional" music for a few days, and throw it over to the "Christmas Pop" station for a day or two, that's the station that plays my most hated song of all time (possibly my second most hated song too).[DOUBLEPOST=1386110778,1386110729][/DOUBLEPOST]Also, the loop on the traditional station is something like 6 hours.

Dec 3, 2013#276

IronBrig4

My first job after undergrad was working retail. I worked at Brookstone in a fancy shopping mall. September and October were okay, but we couldn't listen to anything but Christmas music from November 1 until Christmas Eve. I'm talking about "I Saw Mommy Kissing Santa Claus" and that genre. I learned to tune it out but I refuse to play that kind of music to this very day.

Dec 3, 2013#277

Sparhawk

IronBrig4 said:
My first job after undergrad was working retail. I worked at Brookstone in a fancy shopping mall. September and October were okay, but we couldn't listen to anything but Christmas music from November 1 until Christmas Eve. I'm talking about "I Saw Mommy Kissing Santa Claus" and that genre. I learned to tune it out but I refuse to play that kind of music to this very day.

All the stores in this area don't start playing Christmas music until the week of Thanksgiving, and most often not until Black Friday.

Dec 10, 2013#278

fade

This show is turning out to be surprisingly sexist, and it feels like it's actually getting worse as the show goes on.

Dec 10, 2013#279

ScytheRexx

fade said:
This show is turning out to be surprisingly sexist, and it feels like it's actually getting worse as the show goes on.

Care to elaborate?

Dec 11, 2013#280

fade

Not too much to elaborate. Feels like most of the female characters are walking stereotypes. Examples? The bad woman from centipede in the skin tight dress literally swayed her ass back and forth in front of the camera. Coulson and Ward spent a car ride talking about women as objects to win while reducing a serious class about women's studies to an owners manual for that sweet ride. Then there's Mei. She's in a skin tight boob enhancing outfit, has virtually no personality other that irritable, and to top it all off, she's Asian so of course she's a martial artist.

Maybe I'm over reacting but the little pieces kept adding up. Keep in mind that "surprisingly sexist" does not mean "really sexist". It means I did not expect to see this level in this show.

Dec 11, 2013#281

Shakey

fade said:
Maybe I'm over reacting but the little pieces kept adding up. Keep in mind that "surprisingly sexist" does not mean "really sexist". It means I did not expect to see this level in this show.

The show is, after all, based off of comics. It's kind of what they do best. I'm not saying it's ok, but it shouldn't be too surprising.

Jan 7, 2014#282

ScytheRexx

Well, the hiatus is over, and the new episode premiered tonight. Honestly I am still pretty positive about the show, but seriously, they need to stop bringing in and dropping things before they have time to even develop. I am seriously getting sick of certain story arcs just kind of going "ffrrrrrrrrtttttt" and be over.

I already went over this with the abrupt derp end of the Rising Tide arc, but the new episode...

Why have that doofus from the prison at all if this is what they did with him? Why? WHY? What point did he make in all this? They treat him like some important bastard when the flower girl goes to meet him in the prison, then they send three super soldiers to spring him out, have him take over and actually seem to be doing well, then this episode happens and "ffrrrrrrttttt" again. I seriously thought they were going to build it up that the Clairvoyant was an alternate personality of his or something, but nope, it's a real guy, who kills prison doofus over the phone because "lol who cares".

Honestly, you know what I want this show to transform into? A crime drama. How so? I want the episodes to be them unraveling the mystery of the bad guy through evidence but never focusing on the bad guy doing his junk, only the aftermath. All this focus on flower girl and prison doofus only for it to peter out like it did just makes me not care anymore. They should have just had the Clairvoyant as this mystery person and have all the people who SHIELD interacts with working for him be "eyeball slaves". Maybe that's just me, but the lackies we have so far have turned out to be pointless.

Jan 8, 2014#283

BananaHands

Something to think on...

How Coulson kept saying 'Let me die."

"Let me die."
"Let Me Die.”
“L M D”
Life Model Decoy

Jan 8, 2014#284

Covar

BananaHands said:
Something to think on...

How Coulson kept saying 'Let me die."

"Let me die."
"Let Me Die.”
“L M D”
Life Model Decoy

That's giving the writers too much credit.

Jan 8, 2014#285

ScytheRexx

I honestly am not sure how they would get the LMD thing to work at this point.

LMDs are entirely robotic on the inside, with all external work done to make them look authentic. Once damaged or destroyed it would be pretty obvious he was one, like when those guys are torturing him in that shack. Do we really have to believe that Centipede, when attempting to figure out how he was brought back to life, that they didn't check him physically at all? Even when they have who knows how many scientists working for them? Talk about dropping the ball.

Honestly if they do decide to go with the LMD at this point, I think it will be written in after the fact, which will annoy the hell out of me.

Jan 8, 2014#286

Covar

You know I've been a pretty big defender (heh) of the show, after all a whole heck of a lot of the criticism against it was that it wasn't the Avengers movie. But this episode was so mediocre it became pretty terrible. I've been trying to give the show time to build up, but it's clear they have no real direction, and the show just continues to be dull and it's running out of time before I become completely uninterested.

Jan 8, 2014#287

Shakey

You have to wait a week to watch the show online now? The hell.

Jan 8, 2014#288

Krisken

Shakey said:
You have to wait a week to watch the show online now? The hell.

Right? It's almost as if they WANT people to go back to pirating.

Jan 8, 2014#289

Shakey

Krisken said:
Right? It's almost as if they WANT people to go back to pirating.

I'm just not going to bother with the show at all I think. It's been an OK show, but it hasn't grabbed me enough to go out of my way to watch it.

Jan 9, 2014#290

Gryfter

I too am starting to lose interest. I love Coulson, but none of the other characters have grabbed me and a few (looking at you Skye) I am beginning to actually loathe. I feel like they want to be a Marvel property but they don't actually want to be associated with the universe. It wouldn't take much, just change some names to things that have existed in Marvel for decades. New viewers won't notice, but the fans ( you know, the ones who will champion the show and watch it religiously) would notice and really embrace it.
It works for Arrow which is not much better production-wise, but feels like a DC property because they are using the names from the comics even if they are radically different in presentation.

Jan 9, 2014#291

Covar

Gryfter said:
I too am starting to lose interest. I love Coulson, but none of the other characters have grabbed me and a few (looking at you Skye) I am beginning to actually loathe. I feel like they want to be a Marvel property but they don't actually want to be associated with the universe. It wouldn't take much, just change some names to things that have existed in Marvel for decades. New viewers won't notice, but the fans ( you know, the ones who will champion the show and watch it religiously) would notice and really embrace it.
It works for Arrow which is not much better production-wise, but feels like a DC property because they are using the names from the comics even if they are radically different in presentation.

Well to be fair with Centipede, they have to create something because it's not like S.H.I.E.L.D. comics have ever had them locked in a secret war with large criminal organizations. There's no groups like that.

Jan 9, 2014#292

Bubble181

Shakey said:
You have to wait a week to watch the show online now? The hell.

Welcome to how...Well, all the rest of the world has to watch.

Jan 9, 2014#293

Shakey

Bubble181 said:
Welcome to how...Well, all the rest of the world has to watch.

Oh, I know. If I were you I wouldn't bother with them either.

Jan 9, 2014#294

Frank

So Agents of SHIELD lifted some concept art from Bioware and basically just pasted it into a scene.

Jan 9, 2014#295

Charlie Don't Surf

the tahiti reveal was one of the dumbest things I've seen

Jan 17, 2014#296

evilmike

Charlie Don't Surf said:
the tahiti reveal was one of the dumbest things I've seen

It was certainly odd and anti-climactic. The pay-off for the mystery was almost non-existent.

In other news, it looks like Marvel is changing the level of interaction with the movie universe -- Lady Sif is scheduled to appear in episode 15. (via TheMarySue)

Jan 19, 2014#297

@Li3n

evilmike said:
It was certainly odd and anti-climactic. The pay-off for the mystery was almost non-existent.

Well it wasn't exactly a reveal, we dont know what the green container thing was, or how exactly they where able to keep him alive, certainly not just with surgery... all they showed is that, as we all assumed, he was dead for a lot longer then 8 seconds...

Jan 20, 2014#298

fade

Dear Hollywood:
More PhDs does not equal more intelligent. You really only need one. Everything else you prove by doing. As an anecdote, I've been both an electrical engineering prof and a geology prof. I only needed the one phd. The rest was just proof through work and publication.

Jan 21, 2014#299

Fun Size

@Li3n said:
Well it wasn't exactly a reveal, we dont know what the green container thing was, or how exactly they where able to keep him alive, certainly not just with surgery... all they showed is that, as we all assumed, he was dead for a lot longer then 8 seconds...

And for me the Tahiti reveal wasn't a reveal at all. We all knew it was at least partially bullshit from episode one. The question is why they bothered. What is it about Coulson that they couldn't just let him die in the field like any other agent?

Jan 21, 2014#300

AshburnerX

Fun Size said:
And for me the Tahiti reveal wasn't a reveal at all. We all knew it was at least partially bullshit from episode one. The question is why they bothered. What is it about Coulson that they couldn't just let him die in the field like any other agent?

Honestly, it's probably his pre-established relationships with half the Avengers, particularly Stark and Co. You really don't want to throw an unknown factor at the guy who could probably destroy a city if he REALLY wanted to.

Jan 21, 2014#301

Tress

AshburnerX said:
Honestly, it's probably his pre-established relationships with half the Avengers, particularly Stark and Co. You really don't want to throw an unknown factor at the guy who could probably destroy a city if he REALLY wanted to.

You're thinking about this logically, not like a crappy writer. I'll bet he has some deep, dark secret knowledge they need to save the world. Or he's the only one who can use the as-yet-unrevealed MacGuffin of Destiny.

Jan 21, 2014#302

Covar

I think you're both still giving to much credit to the writers.

Jan 21, 2014#303

Fun Size

The thing is that ordinarily, I would agree, but the sick, sad Whedonite in me believes that there is a plan, and that it will pay off in the long run. It just has to get on with it, and last week was a good start. I feel like they're through the whole "okay, here's the team" bit and now we can pursue actual stories.

Of course, it could all go to Hell and end up being utter rubbish too. I still haven't forgiven Downton for one bad episode, so my tolerance for such shenanigans has apparently diminished over the years, especially when it comes to my extremely limited free time. Only time will tell.

Jan 23, 2014#304

CynicismKills

In other news, J. August Richards is going to become Deathlok.

Jan 23, 2014#305

Ravenpoe

CynicismKills said:
In other news, J. August Richards is going to become Deathlok.

For a moment, I thought Dethklok was going to be on SHIELD.

I'd so watch that.

Jan 23, 2014#306

Frank

CynicismKills said:
In other news, J. August Richards is going to become Deathlok.

Actor J. August Richards' recurring character, Mike Peterson, to transform into the fan-favorite Marvel character!

Ha ha ha ha ha!

Jan 24, 2014#307

CynicismKills

Yeah, I had no idea who Deathlok was. I had to wiki it. He's basically Cyborg, I guess.

Jan 24, 2014#308

BananaHands

And Lorelei!

I'm guessing that means we'll finally have a chance to get Amora in Thor 3. But if it's Amber Heard imma flip some shit.

Jan 24, 2014#309

ScytheRexx

If this was the way they were going to go with the Mike Peterson character, why didn't they just do it in the first episode? Why go through all the SHIELD training junk? Most origin stories are single issue deals to establish why the person has his powers.

Just have him blown up during the pilot after the gun is used, but show he survived it with only some of his limbs burning off. His son is taken away by SHIELD to protect him, "Deathlok" wakes up later to find himself now a eye slave with robotics installed by Centipede's benefactor, he is told SHIELD kidnapped his son, and boom, we could have had an actual comic-based reoccurring villain this whole season rather then flower girl and some unnamed farseer.

But nope, we had to drag it out, have him gain powers off screen, become crazy, become sane again, only for him to now be an eye slave. All this in just three episodes that have him represented.

Jan 24, 2014#310

CynicismKills

If nothing else it adds the same sort of inner turmoil that ex-SHIELD agent from an earlier episode had when she was stuck with the implant, in that SHIELD's done him no wrong but thanks to the killswitch he's going to have to do things he doesn't necessarily want to do. If it were all crammed into the first episode there wouldn't have been much room for establishing the SHIELD team (and likely would have left Petersen a fairly one-dimensional character).

Jan 24, 2014#311

BananaHands

ScytheRexx said:
If this was the way they were going to go with the Mike Peterson character, why didn't they just do it in the first episode? Why go through all the SHIELD training junk? Most origin stories are single issue deals to establish why the person has his powers.

Just have him blown up during the pilot after the gun is used, but show he survived it with only some of his limbs burning off. His son is taken away by SHIELD to protect him, "Deathlok" wakes up later to find himself now a eye slave with robotics installed by Centipede's benefactor, he is told SHIELD kidnapped his son, and boom, we could have had an actual comic-based reoccurring villain this whole season rather then flower girl and some unnamed farseer.

But nope, we had to drag it out, have him gain powers off screen, become crazy, become sane again, only for him to now be an eye slave. All this in just three episodes that have him represented.

The first half of the season was pretty rough, but the end of the first half and the two in the second have been pretty solid. I'll excuse their shenanigans. I did it with Arrow and that ended up paying off.

Jan 24, 2014#312

ScytheRexx

CynicismKills said:
If nothing else it adds the same sort of inner turmoil that ex-SHIELD agent from an earlier episode had when she was stuck with the implant, in that SHIELD's done him no wrong but thanks to the killswitch he's going to have to do things he doesn't necessarily want to do. If it were all crammed into the first episode there wouldn't have been much room for establishing the SHIELD team (and likely would have left Petersen a fairly one-dimensional character).

Disagree.

For one, we don't NEED that turmoil. We already had it with the ex-agent in that earlier episode, and frankly I am getting a little bit sick of all these people outside the flower girl seemingly getting put into the "program" against their will. It would have been way more interesting to have Peterson/Deathlok almost happy for his implants, even if he knows it gives the leader control over him, just because they help him battle SHIELD to reclaim his son. It could have been built up to a point where he changes his mind and grows as a character, instead we go through yet more "He has to do bad things even though he is a good man" bullshit we have gotten from multiple characters in the season so far.

For two, all they would have to do in the first episode is change one thing about the ending, and don't have his little "joining SHIELD" arc. Basically cut out what ended up being worthless fat (he was a member for one episode, big woop) and get to the meat of the origin, a man given great powers is taken by a greater force and put into service. It wouldn't take away from the SHIELD origin development, even though what we got was already dry.

And lastly, he would only be "one-dimensional" if they just made him go "RAWR! DEATHLOK KILL" and nothing else, but his motivation will always be that he has gone made from his ordeals and "only wants his son back", which could lead into major character growth down the line. Right now he is just flopping from "good, bad, good, bad, LAST MINUTE GOOD!, wait now slave bad". Honestly even if they did make him one-dimensional, there is nothing wrong with that. This show has way to many characters as it is, all of which they are trying so hard for me to care for that I find myself caring little for any of them.

Feb 11, 2014#313

evilmike

Feb 11, 2014#314

Covar

So the last episode wasn't terrible. Yay?

Feb 11, 2014#315

fade

Yeah it was a mild upswing.

Feb 12, 2014#316

BananaHands

Skye is Tess Black.

Callin' it.

Feb 17, 2014#317

IronBrig4

Any episode with a Stan Lee cameo is all right in my book. Excelsior!

Mar 5, 2014#318

ScytheRexx

Anyone watch the last episode? That was a bit of a ride.

Who do you think the guy in the tube is? Popular theory people are bringing up is a Kree warrior of some type.

Mar 5, 2014#319

CynicismKills

Oh I didn't even think of that. I've heard the show's going to be ramping up pretty hard in order to tie into the Marvel mythos more (along with tie-ins to Winter Soldier), so that's totally possible.

Adding Kree to the Asgardian storyline next week drops a lot of Cosmic potential for future episodes. Plus we don't know what kind of powers Skye has, nor what the formula could do to her or said powers.

Mar 5, 2014#320

ScytheRexx

I have been seeing some people on the net even claim that the body is...

Captain Mar-Vell, or more specifically the Ultimate version of the character, Mahr Vehl. The big reason people are going with this is because the body was marked "GH". Coulson and crew first thought this meant Guest House, but later Coulson finds it on the tube holding the body. Ultimate Captain Mahr Vehl was named Geheneris HalaSon Mahr Vehl.

Mar 6, 2014#321

CynicismKills

Wow, that'd be pretty fucking dark if so.

Mar 6, 2014#322

ScytheRexx

CynicismKills said:
Wow, that'd be pretty fucking dark if so.

Be aware, when it comes to the movie universe Marvel likes to mix the originals with the ultimate versions.

It does not mean said character would never appear in his regular universe incarnation. We still could get Mar-Vell. It just allows them to add more gravity to who was used to bring Coulson back to life rather then making it out like a random Kree.

Mar 6, 2014#323

CynicismKills

Well, we do have Carol Danvers showing up in Avengers 2, so that could be all the Captain Marvel we need.

Mar 6, 2014#324

HCGLNS

I was thinking Guest House meant the location of extraterrestrial guests. I was of the mind the body was Asguardian or Chitari.

Also Sif!

Mar 6, 2014#325

ThatNickGuy

I doubt they'll waste a big name like Mar-Vell on a shit TV show.
(See also: Luke Cage)

Mar 6, 2014#326

Krisken

ThatNickGuy said:
I doubt they'll waste a big name like Mar-Vell on a shit TV show.
(See also: Luke Cage)

Where are you having your next parade? I'd like to piss all over it.

Mar 6, 2014#327

fade

The body reminded me of Source Code.

Mar 6, 2014#328

BananaHands

There's rumor that Yondo crashes in the 80s to get Peter Quill - it could have been his co-pilot or something?

I'm all about the Kree - though I doubt Skye is going to have any special abilities from getting injected with it. I still hold the belief that Skye's real name is Tess Black.[DOUBLEPOST=1394127801,1394127715][/DOUBLEPOST]

ThatNickGuy said:
I doubt they'll waste a big name like Mar-Vell on a shit TV show.
(See also: Luke Cage)

Oh, go watch Man of Steel.

Mar 6, 2014#329

ThatNickGuy

BananaHands said:
Oh, go watch Man of Steel.

I have even less interest in watching that again.

Mar 6, 2014#330

Krisken

You've made your feelings clear on the show, Nick. I don't think you're winning any points by trolling the thread.

Mar 6, 2014#331

HCGLNS

The tongue grab was awesome.

Can we swoon some more about May?

May

=swoons=

Mar 6, 2014#332

fade

Man io9 hated that episode
http://io9.com/are-the-agents-of-shield-actually-supposed-to-be-the-go-1537344316

Especially them essentially murdering the 2 guards.

Mar 6, 2014#333

BananaHands

HCGLNS said:
The tongue grab was awesome.

Can we swoon some more about May?

May

=swoons=

She'll make a man out of us.

Mar 6, 2014#334

sixpackshaker

fade said:
Especially them essentially murdering the 2 guards.

Wait, what? They murdered the guys that shot first? And were the ones that set the bomb to detonate?

Mar 6, 2014#335

ScytheRexx

You know, there is one thing I have been thinking about that involves Skye...

We know she is special because she was designated by the code for a object of unknown origin, and that in the process of protecting her a lot of agents were killed. There has to be something special about her. So is it just me, or is everyone sort of... attached to her? Like unnaturally so?

Seriously, she is a member of a enemy group that somehow got made an agent of shield in the first episode. Her old boyfriend disgraced his own values to get money to "be with her". The one time she showed herself as untrustworthy they still kept her around with just a little braclet so she couldn't use computer, oh no!

This episode, Coulson and crew went to such extremes to try saving her that they disobeyed shield, killed two guys doing their job, and every other moment was the entire team musing about how much they care about her. Coulson is destroyed over the idea of her dying. May kicks the shit out of Quinn for shooting her. They even have that scene with Simmons and the other agent where this exchange happens...

Agent: You two close?
Simmons: We just met months ago, but...
Agent: But it feels like you can't live without her?
Simmons: "nods"

There is friendship, and then there is this, and something does not feel right about it. Is it just me adding something where nothing exists?

Mar 6, 2014#336

Tiger Tsang

I'm just glad the show is starting to pick up some steam. Heck, the first 1/2 season of Arrow was . . . not so good, but it's pretty spiffy now (for a CW show). That having been said, to borrow from a Farker

11/26,
12/10,
1/7,
1/14,
2/4,
3/4

That's not a weekly show, that's a special once a month where you have to remember back three months to understand the story.

Mar 6, 2014#337

HCGLNS

ScytheRexx said:
You know, there is one thing I have been thinking about that involves Skye...

We know she is special because she was designated by the code for a object of unknown origin, and that in the process of protecting her a lot of agents were killed. There has to be something special about her. So is it just me, or is everyone sort of... attached to her? Like unnaturally so?

Seriously, she is a member of a enemy group that somehow got made an agent of shield in the first episode. Her old boyfriend disgraced his own values to get money to "be with her". The one time she showed herself as untrustworthy they still kept her around with just a little braclet so she couldn't use computer, oh no!

This episode, Coulson and crew went to such extremes to try saving her that they disobeyed shield, killed two guys doing their job, and every other moment was the entire team musing about how much they care about her. Coulson is destroyed over the idea of her dying. May kicks the shit out of Quinn for shooting her. They even have that scene with Simmons and the other agent where this exchange happens...

Agent: You two close?
Simmons: We just met months ago, but...
Agent: But it feels like you can't live without her?
Simmons: "nods"

There is friendship, and then there is this, and something does not feel right about it. Is it just me adding something where nothing exists?

Sorta like the Purple Man or ... STARFOX!

Mar 6, 2014#338

CynicismKills

sixpackshaker said:
Wait, what? They murdered the guys that shot first? And were the ones that set the bomb to detonate?

For once someone in the i09 comments had a good point. Coulson consistently says "we have a dying teammate, we're SHIELD, etc etc" which, had the guards even checked up on that shit, they'd know Coulson had been at that location.

Instead they open fire.

Mar 6, 2014#339

ScytheRexx

CynicismKills said:
For once someone in the i09 comments had a good point. Coulson consistently says "we have a dying teammate, we're SHIELD, etc etc" which, had the guards even checked up on that shit, they'd know Coulson had been at that location. Instead they open fire.

It still seemed kind of odd when Fitz had his special "sleep gun" right on him not even a foot away, which they decided to ignore for assault rifles.

Mar 6, 2014#340

CynicismKills

Considering this whole arc is called "Uprising," I have a feeling shooting guards is going to be the least of their worries soon enough.

Mar 6, 2014#341

HCGLNS

He is responsible for the loss of alien tech.

And yeah they straight up murdered those guys to save Skye.

Mar 6, 2014#342

sixpackshaker

One committed suicide by cop, the other suicide by bomb.

Mar 6, 2014#343

fade

I think people were upset because those guys were supposed to defend from intruders and from their perspective a group of hostile armed insistent strangers were trying to get in. And because theoretically they were on the same "side".

Mar 6, 2014#344

ScytheRexx

fade said:
I think people were upset because those guys were supposed to defend from intruders and from their perspective a group of hostile armed insistent strangers were trying to get in. And because theoretically they were on the same "side".

Plus, like I said earlier, they had a totally non-lethal way to disarm them. Unless Ward is a horrible shot with a pistol.

Mar 6, 2014#345

ThatNickGuy

Krisken said:
You've made your feelings clear on the show, Nick. I don't think you're winning any points by trolling the thread.

I wasn't trolling. I've been in a bad mood the past week and took it out on this thread. Sorry.

Doesn't change the fact that they wouldn't waste a major player in the Marvel universe on the show instead of waiting for a big movie moment like the Kree/Skrull war or something.

Mar 6, 2014#346

CynicismKills

Even beyond that, Mar-Vell hasn't been around in the books in quite awhile, I think (according to Wikipedia he's been dead since like '82, with appearances since then, but still being dead). Carol Danvers took over as Captain Marvel in 2012, and still uses the name, so if anything I think they'll set her up as CM if they decide to go that route.

Mar 6, 2014#347

filmfanatic

CynicismKills said:
Even beyond that, Mar-Vell hasn't been around in the books in quite awhile, I think (according to Wikipedia he's been dead since like '82, with appearances since then, but still being dead). Carol Danvers took over as Captain Marvel in 2012, and still uses the name, so if anything I think they'll set her up as CM if they decide to go that route.

That's the sort of response I've been hearing to. If we get a Captain Marvel film, it will probably be Carol Danvers taking the name.

Mar 6, 2014#348

Krisken

ThatNickGuy said:
I wasn't trolling. I've been in a bad mood the past week and took it out on this thread. Sorry.

Doesn't change the fact that they wouldn't waste a major player in the Marvel universe on the show instead of waiting for a big movie moment like the Kree/Skrull war or something.

Sorry to hear you're having a bad week. We all feel miserable now and again, and I hope it passes soon.

I would wager you're right, they'll wait for something more big budget for a big name character.

Mar 6, 2014#349

Ravenpoe

The two guards guarding the guest house (why does this super secret alien tech place only have two guards?) were wearing body armor. The night-night gun probably can't pierce body armor.

Mar 6, 2014#350

fade

That computer interface seems really inconvenient. Couldn't they have found the same info in seconds with a simple database search?

Mar 6, 2014#351

Ravenpoe

fade said:
That computer interface seems really inconvenient. Couldn't they have found the same info in seconds with a simple database search?

And not use that ultra cool holographic display they had installed? Crazy.

In otherwords, Yeah, it's inefficient, but goddamn it's cool.

Mar 7, 2014#352

Fun Size

As for the two guard who got themselves deadened: Shield agent identifies himself, requests that hostility be avoided, warns that they will have to defend themselves if it continues, and then shoots. Since they decided on the way there that this was not officially a Shield operation, who the Hell knows who those guys were or even who they worked for? All that is known is that it's where they brought back Coulson.

Mar 7, 2014#353

sixpackshaker

fade said:
That computer interface seems really inconvenient. Couldn't they have found the same info in seconds with a simple database search?

I am just happy they did not pull out one of those Microsoft Tablets.

Mar 7, 2014#354

Frank

sixpackshaker said:
I am just happy they did not pull out one of those Microsoft Tablets.

Wrong universe.

Mar 10, 2014#355

BananaHands

What if that was Hydra and that first guard they killed was actually Bob, Agent of HYDRA?

;_;

Mar 11, 2014#356

ScytheRexx

Last episode was not too bad. Kind of wish they had Sif throw around more guys in the biker bar though.

It's also interesting to see...

Coulson finally going off the deep end and deciding to uncover the secrets of SHIELD. Plus the revelation that May is keeping an eye on Coulson for Fury (at least it can be assumed it's Fury).

Next week we once again won't have a new episode, but from what they promoted they are going to show more stuff from CA:WS, GOTG, and even have footage from Avengers 2. Holy crap I didn't realize they were far enough in to show anything. Then again the first GOTG trailer at ComiCon supposedly happened after only 12 days of shooting, so I guess it's possible.

Mar 12, 2014#357

AshburnerX

ScytheRexx said:
Last episode was not too bad. Kind of wish they had Sif throw around more guys in the biker bar though.

It's also interesting to see...

Coulson finally going off the deep end and deciding to uncover the secrets of SHIELD. Plus the revelation that May is keeping an eye on Coulson for Fury (at least it can be assumed it's Fury).

Next week we once again won't have a new episode, but from what they promoted they are going to show more stuff from CA:WS, GOTG, and even have footage from Avengers 2. Holy crap I didn't realize they were far enough in to show anything. Then again the first GOTG trailer at ComiCon supposedly happened after only 12 days of shooting, so I guess it's possible.

Principle filming for Avengers 2 could already be done. What's going to take MONTHS is editing, CGI, foley work, and reshoots.

Mar 12, 2014#358

ScytheRexx

AshburnerX said:
Principle filming for Avengers 2 could already be done. What's going to take MONTHS is editing, CGI, foley work, and reshoots.

I guess time is just flying.

Mar 12, 2014#359

CynicismKills

I thought I had read they're filming (or have already) Black Widow's scenes as SJ is pregnant. I mean, the movie's out, what, next year? They'd have to be pretty far along in production at this point, I would assume.

Mar 12, 2014#360

BananaHands

That episode was everything I wanted this show to be.

Also, the Kree name-drop is the first mention that Kree exist in the MCU!

Can we talk about how Fitz was just a puppy when he was under Lorelei's spell?

Mar 12, 2014#361

HCGLNS

Yeah from now on every episode is going to be "needs more Sif" for me.

Mar 12, 2014#362

BananaHands

HCGLNS said:
Yeah from now on every episode is going to be "needs more Sif" for me.

Yes.

And more John Garret.

Mar 12, 2014#363

Sparhawk

BananaHands said:
That episode was everything I wanted this show to be.

Also, the Kree name-drop is the first mention that Kree exist in the MCU!

Can we talk about how Fitz was just a puppy when he was under Lorelei's spell?

But, this is an honest opinion (not trolling), how successful would this show be if this was the "out of the gate" premier? You'd have had the average viewer (non-comic fan) looking at the show as just a marketing tool. "Oh, look, it's that chick from Thor. I don't want to watch a show about Thor without Thor weekly." Instead, they built on the characters they had, put secrets and mysteries in place to build toward something bigger and now they start pulling some good basic comic book mojo into the show. I have a feeling that we're gonna have one heck of a season cliffhanger though. Whedon gave the comic fan some stuff in the season build too, Graviton, Deathlok and some stuff that was shown on the computers and said in passing in conversations.

I think that they've handled this in a good way, and I'm looking forward to seeing what else is coming down the pipe.

Mar 13, 2014#364

BananaHands

Sparhawk said:
But, this is an honest opinion (not trolling), how successful would this show be if this was the "out of the gate" premier? You'd have had the average viewer (non-comic fan) looking at the show as just a marketing tool. "Oh, look, it's that chick from Thor. I don't want to watch a show about Thor without Thor weekly." Instead, they built on the characters they had, put secrets and mysteries in place to build toward something bigger and now they start pulling some good basic comic book mojo into the show. I have a feeling that we're gonna have one heck of a season cliffhanger though. Whedon gave the comic fan some stuff in the season build too, Graviton, Deathlok and some stuff that was shown on the computers and said in passing in conversations.

I think that they've handled this in a good way, and I'm looking forward to seeing what else is coming down the pipe.

Oh! I wasn't harping on the show. I've been watching it from the beginning - this episode just made the show everything I could want out of a show in the MCU.

Mar 13, 2014#365

Sparhawk

BananaHands said:
Oh! I wasn't harping on the show. I've been watching it from the beginning - this episode just made the show everything I could want out of a show in the MCU.

Sorry if that came as an attack on you, wasn't meant that way. Your post just kinda triggered everything that I've had bumping around in my head about the show. I think that they've taken the best route, even though they "angered" the "true fans" by not jumping straight into mainstream Marvel Universe.

Mar 13, 2014#366

ScytheRexx

I just feel the ramp could have been a nice simmer rather then a slow burn. The series started close to 6 months ago, so having rather bland episodes mixed with long breaks between episodes kind of kill the excitement. We only have two episodes left, and they won't happen till April.

Mar 13, 2014#367

phil

Fun Size said:
As for the two guard who got themselves deadened: Shield agent identifies himself, requests that hostility be avoided, warns that they will have to defend themselves if it continues, and then shoots. Since they decided on the way there that this was not officially a Shield operation, who the Hell knows who those guys were or even who they worked for? All that is known is that it's where they brought back Coulson.

One of them says that he recognized Coulson right before he dies.

I always feel at least a little bad for random guards that get killed like that. Just doing their jobs, ya know?

As for this latest episode, I liked it for the most part. I liked the Sif stuff and all that. I'm getting a little tired of the mystery around Coulson, though.

Mar 14, 2014#368

Fun Size

Mar 21, 2014#369

Gryfter

Patton Oswalt joins Agents of SHIELD.

http://marvel.com/news/tv/2014/3/20...ts_in_marvels_agents_of_shield.#ixzz2wXabuTJj

Apr 2, 2014#370

HCGLNS

Good show last night. Needs more Sif though.

Apr 2, 2014#371

ScytheRexx

You know, now I get why they take so long between episodes. It feels like each big arc occurring in the show has to line up with the movie coming out around the same time, thus why this one is focusing so much on traitors inside SHIELD right on the edge of the new Captain America movie showing them antagonizing Cap. Not sure how well it's working for them though.

Apr 2, 2014#372

AshburnerX

ScytheRexx said:
You know, now I get why they take so long between episodes. It feels like each big arc occurring in the show has to line up with the movie coming out around the same time, thus why this one is focusing so much on traitors inside SHIELD right on the edge of the new Captain America movie showing them antagonizing Cap. Not sure how well it's working for them though.

The show exists for two reasons:

- To give Marvel universe content between movies. It's actually done that pretty well by giving us the low level bullshit that Shield has to protect us from everyday and now that we have an honest to go super villain (Dethlock and the people he works for), it's only getting better. It's not A+ material but it's doing way better than I thought it would.

- To promote the movies. It's doing this rather well too, as we get content lead-ins that work much better than the stingers at the end of the movies.

Does this justify the cost of the show? I wouldn't know... that's up to the marketing executives. But I do know that it's way better than a few commercials and extra scenes on the DVDs.

Apr 2, 2014#373

BananaHands

I loved the dialogue between the agents. We need more of that.

Apr 8, 2014#374

Sparhawk

Wow. Hell of an episode.

Apr 8, 2014#375

BananaHands

Welp.

Apr 8, 2014#376

Sparhawk

They did say it would all be changing... I do not believe that they lied.

Apr 8, 2014#377

BananaHands

Sparhawk said:
They did say it would all be changing... I do not believe that they lied.

I enjoyed it. A lot.

But Hand... ugh..

Apr 8, 2014#378

ThatNickGuy

I'm not interested in watching the episode, but I'm curious about what made this one so good and what happened in it. Someone mind spilling the beans for me?

Apr 8, 2014#379

Krisken

Can't wait to see it. Have to wait a week. Le sigh.

Apr 8, 2014#380

HCGLNS

ThatNickGuy said:
I'm not interested in watching the episode, but I'm curious about what made this one so good and what happened in it. Someone mind spilling the beans for me?

Spoiler free summary: It's 60 extra minutes of Captain America The Winter Soldier.

Just as good, just as awesome, and oh yeah

MOTHERFUCKING COWBELL!

Apr 8, 2014#381

Frank

HCGLNS said:
Spoiler free summary: It's 60 extra minutes of Captain America The Winter Soldier.

Just as good, just as awesome,

Man, this is hyperbole of the greatest order.

Apr 9, 2014#382

IronBrig4

Hell of a twist.

Apr 9, 2014#383

CynicismKills

Some interesting theories I've seen around the 'net.

1. Bainwashing like Bucky.

2. Going deep cover, Hand not really dead.

3. Part of HYDRA all along, since his training days.

My money is on 2 at the moment, though

the empty stare at the end of the episode could mean brainwashing.

Apr 9, 2014#384

HCGLNS

Hyperbole!?

COWBELL!!!!!!!

Apr 9, 2014#385

sixpackshaker

HCGLNS said:
MOTHERFUCKING COWBELL!

I have a fever.

I did like that it was the character actually jamming out while on auto-pilot.

Apr 9, 2014#386

BananaHands

CynicismKills said:
Some interesting theories I've seen around the 'net.

1. Bainwashing like Bucky.

2. Going deep cover, Hand not really dead.

3. Part of HYDRA all along, since his training days.

My money is on 2 at the moment, though

the empty stare at the end of the episode could mean brainwashing.

The music they played with that empty stare was just like the music they played post-credits with Bucky.

However, from the interview with Bell and Loeb:

And so if you’d look at how he related to everyone — Coulson loves projects. Here is a guy who didn’t have people skills. So Garrett says, can you help this guy Ward round off some of the rough edges? So he comes onto the team. Coulson is now vested, because he’s got a project. Who is Ward’s greatest threat? May. What does he do? He seduces her. Who is the one unknown on the team? Skye. He becomes her S.O. How do you get everyone rally around and trust you? You jump out of a plane trying to save someone else. Now, he had a parachute. Let’s say he failed to save Simmons, he would’ve been fine. Everything he’s done has solidified how people feel about him over the course of the season.

Apr 9, 2014#387

evilmike

Krisken said:
Can't wait to see it. Have to wait a week. Le sigh.

If it helps, this episode is available from ordinary Hulu right now. It doesn't have the week delay that earlier episodes had.

Apr 9, 2014#388

Krisken

evilmike said:
If it helps, this episode is available from ordinary Hulu right now. It doesn't have the week delay that earlier episodes had.

It does help! I was lucky to notice it this morning and watched it. I still don't get why people don't care for the show.

Apr 9, 2014#389

BananaHands

SHIELD and HYDRA should settle this conflict like adults.

With a Space Jam.

Apr 9, 2014#390

HCGLNS

Guys, I'm not being silly about the cowbell.

Cowbell is serious business!

Cowbell references the song.
The title of the song is foreshadowing the identity of the big villain.
Who happens to be one of the most iconic villains in Avenger/SHIELD lore.
A villain who's history would make Coulsons trip to Tahiti very interesting.
And a villain who is very well suited to limited special effects budget of a TV series.
By now you all know who I am talking about.
But does this mean we will get the villains brother?
(now do the YES chant people)

Apr 9, 2014#391

BananaHands

HCGLNS said:
Guys, I'm not being silly about the cowbell.

Cowbell is serious business!

Cowbell references the song.
The title of the song is foreshadowing the identity of the big villain.
Who happens to be one of the most iconic villains in Avenger/SHIELD lore.
A villain who's history would make Coulsons trip to Tahiti very interesting.
And a villain who is very well suited to limited special effects budget of a TV series.
By now you all know who I am talking about.
But does this mean we will get the villains brother?
(now do the YES chant people)

I don't get it. ;-;

Apr 9, 2014#392

CynicismKills

I had to Wiki to make sure I was right. With all the tie-ins he's got to Ultron, it could work.

Apr 9, 2014#393

ThatNickGuy

BananaHands said:
I don't get it. ;-;

Me neither. I got no clue what he's talking about.

Apr 9, 2014#394

CynicismKills

I'm fairly sure he's talking about

Grim Reaper, who is the brother of Wonder Man. He hasn't seen a lot of use lately save for a sub-boss in Marvel Heroes, but he received a powerup from Ultron, allowing him to force people into near-death comas. He's fought the Avengers on multiple occasions, and forced a few of them into pretty tight spots. He's got a rivalry with Vision, as well.

Apr 9, 2014#395

ThatNickGuy

CynicismKills said:
I'm fairly sure he's talking about

Grim Reaper, who is the brother of Wonder Man. He hasn't seen a lot of use lately save for a sub-boss in Marvel Heroes, but he received a powerup from Ultron, allowing him to force people into near-death comas. He's fought the Avengers on multiple occasions, and forced a few of them into pretty tight spots. He's got a rivalry with Vision, as well.

I doubt it. That's another major Avengers villain that I doubt they'd waste on the small screen.

Apr 9, 2014#396

CynicismKills

I dunno, I mean, you can't save everything for the movies. He's mainly only been in video games lately, and I don't think he's a big enough name to drop into anything coming soon that's related to Ultron or HYDRA (which as of now is pretty much just AoU as far as we know, since Cap 3 is a couple years away).

Apr 9, 2014#397

BananaHands

I think I speak for @HCGLNS when I say that the episode clearly needed more Sif.

Apr 12, 2014#398

Sparhawk

CynicismKills said:
Some interesting theories I've seen around the 'net.

1. Bainwashing like Bucky.

2. Going deep cover, Hand not really dead.

3. Part of HYDRA all along, since his training days.

My money is on 2 at the moment, though

the empty stare at the end of the episode could mean brainwashing.

I re-watched the ep last night with my daughter, and saw Winter Soldier a little while ago. My thoughts...

Ward is deep cover, very end of the episode, the blank stare is broken just before cut to black, he looks straight at the camera. I think that the blank stare is there to make John think that Ward is with him and that earlier efforts to brainwash are still in place.

Apr 16, 2014#399

HCGLNS

Oooh secrets upon secrets and ..... ALPHA FLIGHT!!

Still could have used some Sif.

Apr 16, 2014#400

Shakey

So...

I'm guessing Ward isn't under cover. If he was, why would he give up the location of the gravitonium without even being asked.

Apr 16, 2014#401

BananaHands

Shakey said:
So...

I'm guessing Ward isn't under cover. If he was, why would he give up the location of the gravitonium without even being asked.

Well,

It seems to me that how Fury recruited Coulson right after High School, Garret recruited Ward.

Apr 16, 2014#402

Shakey

Also,

Ward has the Berserker Staff again. If he is really a member of Hydra, he doesn't have to worry about playing the "good" guy anymore. So he can let those bad memories fuel his aggression, and become quite the villain. Lots of possibilities if he stays a bad guy.

[DOUBLEPOST=1397674214,1397674024][/DOUBLEPOST]It might give Sif a reason to make an appearance again too.

Apr 16, 2014#403

ScytheRexx

A little theory.

Remember how I said it's awfully weird how everyone seems to be crazy for Skye? Ward seems to be at the top of that bandwagon right now with all the glances and admissions of wanting to protect her. Well suddenly you find out that SHIELD is corrupted from the inside, and worst yet your own commander who trained you is one of them, showing how deep the tendrils go.

What am I getting at? If he is going under deep cover, he likely is doing it on his own. Skye won't be safe inside SHIELD if Hydra is already this rooted, so he decides the best way to keep her safe is to "join" Hydra and keep an eye on what's happening on the inside, but to do it and make sure John trusts him, so he had to sacrifice Victoria Hand. All so he can protect Skye, the enigma that everyone seems to love.

I really wish they showed a new episode this week, was really interested in seeing what happens next. (wait I am checking the net and it's saying a new episode did occur, but I tuned in at 7 yesterday and it was last weeks. WHAT THE HELL ABC!)

Apr 16, 2014#404

evilmike

ScytheRexx said:
I really wish they showed a new episode this week, was really interested in seeing what happens next. (wait I am checking the net and it's saying a new episode did occur, but I tuned in at 7 yesterday and it was last weeks. WHAT THE HELL ABC!)

They aired last week's episode and the new episode back-to-back last night.

Also, it looks like Hulu is back to a week delay for new SHIELD episodes.

Apr 16, 2014#405

Ravenpoe

ScytheRexx said:
A little theory.

Remember how I said it's awfully weird how everyone seems to be crazy for Skye? Ward seems to be at the top of that bandwagon right now with all the glances and admissions of wanting to protect her. Well suddenly you find out that SHIELD is corrupted from the inside, and worst yet your own commander who trained you is one of them, showing how deep the tendrils go.

What am I getting at? If he is going under deep cover, he likely is doing it on his own. Skye won't be safe inside SHIELD if Hydra is already this rooted, so he decides the best way to keep her safe is to "join" Hydra and keep an eye on what's happening on the inside, but to do it and make sure John trusts him, so he had to sacrifice Victoria Hand. All so he can protect Skye, the enigma that everyone seems to love.

I really wish they showed a new episode this week, was really interested in seeing what happens next. (wait I am checking the net and it's saying a new episode did occur, but I tuned in at 7 yesterday and it was last weeks. WHAT THE HELL ABC!)

They showed last week's before the new one.

Apr 16, 2014#406

Krisken

evilmike said:
They aired last week's episode and the new episode back-to-back last night.

Also, it looks like Hulu is back to a week delay for new SHIELD episodes.

Yeah, which really sucks. they already add a crap ton of commercials. Not paying extra to STILL have commercials and get current shows a week early. What a shit model.

Apr 16, 2014#407

ScytheRexx

Ravenpoe said:
They showed last week's before the new one.

Yes but they showed the old one at the normal time (7) and I guess the new one at 8, which I didn't know about because I was expecting the new one at 7 like always.

Apr 16, 2014#408

IronBrig4

I must have been getting a drink when they revealed Alpha Flight. When was that?

Apr 16, 2014#409

Shakey

IronBrig4 said:
I must have been getting a drink when they revealed Alpha Flight. When was that?

I don't think they have. Being in Canada and previously mentioning Department H gives them a possible tie in though. Maybe to help clean up.

Apr 16, 2014#410

CynicismKills

HCGLNS said:
Oooh secrets upon secrets and ..... ALPHA FLIGHT!!

Still could have used some Sif.

When did AF show up? I didn't catch anything about that.

Apr 16, 2014#411

ScytheRexx

I finally saw the episode. My old theory is pretty much bunk, looks like...

Ward has been deep cover the whole time. I admit that is a pretty big twist.

Apr 18, 2014#412

evilmike

It looks like they are doing posters for each episode through the rest of the season.

Here is the poster for next week's episode "The Only Light in The Darkness"

(via Entertainment Weekly)

Previous Posters:

Apr 22, 2014#413

HCGLNS

Oooooh! Another classic villain, and they worked his super powers in very nicely!

Next week! Maria!!!!!

Apr 23, 2014#414

IronBrig4

Yeah, I thought that was cleverly done. Isn't Blackout a Ghost Rider villain?

Apr 23, 2014#415

Shakey

I like how the writers are basically making fun of all the critiques about the show's first half. Skyes real name being Mary Sue was great.

Apr 23, 2014#416

Gryfter

Well, Cap 2 definitely injected a much needed adrenaline boost to the show.

Bummed that Agent Oswalt bit it, I was enjoying him.

Apr 23, 2014#417

Krisken

I'm a week behind. Stupid Hulu. Stupid me for clicking spoilers.

Apr 23, 2014#418

Shakey

Krisken said:
I'm a week behind. Stupid Hulu. Stupid me for clicking spoilers.

That was a big one too...

I'm a bit worried this show may fall into the trap of only having one story to tell, which is the fall of Shield. The shows before this started were fairly dull, and while entertaining, nothing to bother with. Hopefully they have something more once this is all sorted out. With all the other marvel properties they have coming out, they have a good platform to supplement the movies.

Apr 23, 2014#419

sixpackshaker

Now they can start telling the story of rebuilding the organization correctly.

Apr 23, 2014#420

CynicismKills

Well, with

Maria Hill next week, and Fury in the season finale, I would imagine there's big things coming in season 2. Guess we'll see.

Apr 23, 2014#421

Bowielee

IronBrig4 said:
Yeah, I thought that was cleverly done. Isn't Blackout a Ghost Rider villain?

There are two villains named Blackout in the Marvel universe. One is one of the Lilithkin from Ghost Rider (the one that was a villain in the second movie), the other is a somewhat obscure Marvel Universe villain. He's gone up against all the biggies, Avengers, Spider-Man, etc... but he's still pretty low tier. He also has one of the stupidest comic book costumes this side of Electro. In fact, it's pretty much a black version of Electro's costume, but with only one stupid looking lightning bolt on the head. I think he was primarily an antagonist for Nova.

Apr 24, 2014#422

CynicismKills

Yeah I had to look the guy up, I'd never heard of him before.

Apr 24, 2014#423

HCGLNS

The series is consistently using characters that had strong impacts in the 70's but never really held on as strong characters. So they seem fresh to most viewers but are fun for people of that era.

May 7, 2014#424

Gryfter

LOL, Melinda May.... master of Hate-Fu.

May 7, 2014#425

ScytheRexx

Last episode was pretty great, though I wish they...

Made whether Fitz and Simmons died a bit more ambiguous. A light weight, airtight module dropped 10 feet into the ocean while the plane was not even moving at max speed? Oh ya, totally dead. It was the worst "Did they die!?" they could have done. I just know next week they are going to have a scene with the two of them popping their head out of the waves just in time for Coulson to show up in that mini-jet. Would have been way more ambiguous if they didn't show how high up they were.

May 7, 2014#426

HCGLNS

We need more scenes with May in a power suit.

I took that scene as a replay of the puppy scene.

May 7, 2014#427

ScytheRexx

One scene I thought they did well was...

Right before Ward drops Fitz and Simmons into the ocean, they cut back to him with the dog that had been his companion for the last few years while Garret had him training out in the country. Garret wants him to kill the dog to show he is not weak by his loyalties and personal attachments.

As he is considering killing Fitz and Simmons, it cuts to him about to shoot the dog, but instead he shoots his gun to the side causing the dog to run off, and for a moment we think he can't be all bad. Then right when it looks like he might reconsider killing Fitz and Simmon, we cut back again and see that he killed the dog with his sniper rifle instead.

It really showed to me Ward and how he sees the world. He was not going to just shoot the dog in the face, but instead play off the loyalty and friendship before killing you from the shadows.

May 7, 2014#428

BananaHands

ScytheRexx said:
One scene I thought they did well was...

Right before Ward drops Fitz and Simmons into the ocean, they cut back to him with the dog that had been his companion for the last few years while Garret had him training out in the country. Garret wants him to kill the dog to show he is not weak by his loyalties and personal attachments.

As he is considering killing Fitz and Simmons, it cuts to him about to shoot the dog, but instead he shoots his gun to the side causing the dog to run off, and for a moment we think he can't be all bad. Then right when it looks like he might reconsider killing Fitz and Simmon, we cut back again and see that he killed the dog with his sniper rifle instead.

It really showed to me Ward and how he sees the world. He was not going to just shoot the dog in the face, but instead play off the loyalty and friendship before killing you from the shadows.

Did Ward kill the dog? They kept it ambiguous. Maybe Garret had the sniper rifle...

May 7, 2014#429

ScytheRexx

BananaHands said:
Did Ward kill the dog? They kept it ambiguous. Maybe Garret had the sniper rifle...

They didn't show him actually kill the dog because this is network TV, and people love dogs, but the implication was clear.

They showed Ward messing with the console to eject them, Fitz rambling on not to do it because they are friends. Ward looks up and says "Yes we are", and it cuts to the sniper rifle scope (implying it was his vision, not anyone else, unless he can see through Garret's eyes) with the dog in the sights. You then hear the gunshot as it cuts back to the present, and Ward says, "A weakness" before hitting the button to launch them out of the plane. It was designed to give you the idea he may change and be good, before showing "Nope, he really is a cold hearted killer, time to die guys."

May 7, 2014#430

CynicismKills

I assumed it was Garrett killing the dog. It makes the "I'll do whatever you say" "really?" make a lot more sense. Ward's still got that weakness Garrett wanted to force out, and he's going to get rid of it even if it means cleaning up loose ends himself.

May 7, 2014#431

ScytheRexx

CynicismKills said:
I assumed it was Garrett killing the dog. It makes the "I'll do whatever you say" "really?" make a lot more sense. Ward's still got that weakness Garrett wanted to force out, and he's going to get rid of it even if it means cleaning up loose ends himself.

If that was the case they would have had no reason to do it during the part of the sequence where Ward is pulling up his memories. Intention behind the scene is everything. Ward was also the only one established as even using the sniper rifle during the flashbacks (when he killed the deer), and was last shown with the rifle still, while Garret left for the car.

I just watched the scene again, and here is the events and the symbolism behind them.

As Ward is about to release the module, Fitz actually says "You care about us!" at which point Ward, staring off, says "Your right, I do. A Weakness" before cutting to the shot of the sniper rifle scope homing in on the dog. They do a jump cut where you hear a sound similar to a gunshot but it's actually the sound of Ward "pulling the trigger" on releasing the module, and Fitz and Simmons are dumped into the ocean. There is no reason to do the "pulling the trigger" cut if it was Garret.

May 7, 2014#432

sixpackshaker

I would think Garret would watch to see if Ward would do the job. Garret knows Ward is weak and can not trust him completely.

May 7, 2014#433

ScytheRexx

sixpackshaker said:
I would think Garret would watch to see if Ward would do the job. Garret knows Ward is weak and can not trust him completely.

That is true, but such was never established in the series of shots.

If the flashback occurred when Garrett was "challenging" Ward's ability to kill those he cares about, it would have been more likely. However, it was not. It was represented in the cinematography and the editing, like when I said how the cut represents Ward pulling the trigger on both the dog and his friends.

There was zero implication or evidence that the sniper that killed the dog was Garret. If I have to break it down further I will, but I would rather not devolve into any more minutia including character development (AKA, Garrett had no reason to shoot the dog just for the hell of it, because it does not teach Ward anything.)

May 8, 2014#434

Shakey

ScytheRexx said:
That is true, but such was never established in the series of shots.

If the flashback occurred when Garrett was "challenging" Ward's ability to kill those he cares about, it would have been more likely. However, it was not. It was represented in the cinematography and the editing, like when I said how the cut represents Ward pulling the trigger on both the dog and his friends.

There was zero implication or evidence that the sniper that killed the dog was Garret. If I have to break it down further I will, but I would rather not devolve into any more minutia including character development (AKA, Garrett had no reason to shoot the dog just for the hell of it, because it does not teach Ward anything.)

Ward definitely did it. I think it's just his way of dealing with the betrayal. Shooting the dog through a scope is easier than in the head at close range, and dropping his friends out of a plane is easier than actually killing them.

I think they're really setting Ward up to be a reoccurring villain. No idea who he'll be, but they have a good set up going.

May 8, 2014#435

Tiger Tsang

If you gave up on this show from the *TRULY* bad start (story and schedule wise) go back and get caught up. It's started truly finding it's way. Hell, they've made Ward interesting!

And the Agent Carter Stinger holds some promise for a nice show.

p.s. Don't touch, Lola!
ABC Renews AGENTS OF S.H.I.E.L.D., Green-Lights AGENT CARTER

May 9, 2014#436

evilmike