Can you explain what element of it being an affair causes the power dynamic to mean that even if a person believes they are consenting, they're actually not?
a Trump vs Clinton United States Presidential Election in 2016
- Thread starter Charlie Don't Surf
- Start date
Zero Esc's wife here.
Hi Charlie. I've heard so much about your expert, firsthand experience of being a woman (congratulations on publicly transitioning, by the way! are your preferred pronouns she/her?) that you feel you are able to converse with your fellow women on the same level of our unique social experience. I'm curious, though, just how long have you held the prestigious office of being The Only Woman In The World Who Knows When Another Woman's Opinion and Experience is Legit or When It's Just Internalized Misogyny?
Despite whenever you took office, I'm still pretty sure you were dropped on your head as a child and aren't fit for the post anymore.
Either that or you are actually a male in disguise who thinks his bullshit white knighting is ok and forcing his opinion on women that they're too self-loathing to have a single intelligent thought to themselves is actually not SEXISM AT ITS MOST TRANSPARENT. AT ALL.
Hi Charlie. I've heard so much about your expert, firsthand experience of being a woman (congratulations on publicly transitioning, by the way! are your preferred pronouns she/her?) that you feel you are able to converse with your fellow women on the same level of our unique social experience. I'm curious, though, just how long have you held the prestigious office of being The Only Woman In The World Who Knows When Another Woman's Opinion and Experience is Legit or When It's Just Internalized Misogyny?
Despite whenever you took office, I'm still pretty sure you were dropped on your head as a child and aren't fit for the post anymore.
Either that or you are actually a male in disguise who thinks his bullshit white knighting is ok and forcing his opinion on women that they're too self-loathing to have a single intelligent thought to themselves is actually not SEXISM AT ITS MOST TRANSPARENT. AT ALL.
Of course, that leads to the vitally important question of: given the power dynamics, is it consent if you choose to have sex with a Time Lord?Your internalized misogyny is clearly disrupting your position in the space-time continuum!
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I want to Like, Love It!, Funny, Brofist, and Hug you all at the same time.
...is the Time Lord also consenting?Of course, that leads to the vitally important question of: given the power dynamics, is it consent if you choose to have sex with a Time Lord?
do you understand how a teacher/student relationship might have questionable consent, even if the student half would never think they were raped? Or a CEO/employee thing? It's like that, except with the leader of the free world who is probably the most powerful human alive.
The affair just meant to leave out obvious consenting sex with the President's spouse, I guess there might be a single President again sometime, but I doubt it.
don't use transphobia to make more sad insults
Putting these together because my response is the same.
I'm going to assume for the sake of argument you mean adult students, because in a lot of the situations in the news, that's not the case and is auto-not consensual. What you're talking about is a person being compelled to go along with a situation due to the power dynamic that they don't actually want, but that's not consent. It's still duress. It might look like consent to the person in power, but it's not.
That doesn't mean a person can't genuinely want to have a sexual relationship outside of marriage with a person in power.
also for the record, I don't think I called any president or affair-haver a man or a woman ITT so all this sexism talk feels like y'all projecting.
That's why I keep saying person.
Not transphobia, darling. Transwomen are real women. Since you were assigned male at birth, the only way you could possibly have the female social experience is if you, too, are a woman. I was giving you the benefit of the doubt by assuming this was your public coming out.
Maybe you should stop using misogyny to dismiss women who disagree with you.
Don't claim to know the minds and experiences of women better than women (cis or trans), because unless you have lived as a woman (which was Dream Goddess' point), you don't know shit.
This is mah grrrl! *super hugs*
This is silly.
The conversation has been about Trump molesting women and Bill Clinton's relationships with women.
I honestly don't know a fair description that encompasses Bill Clinton's relationships, not even just the one with Lewinsky, which is the one that best fits Charlie's point.[DOUBLEPOST=1476556650,1476556491][/DOUBLEPOST]
No, you got that wrong.
We're building the wall to keep Trump out.
Trump's victims are claiming they were coerced/forced. Clinton's victims - for the most part - said they were willing. They might still have been coerced, but the point Charlie seems to be making - any sex outside of a fixed relationship, with someone in power, is de facto forced - is ridiculous.
Either way - Bill Clinton being a serial power abuser has no more or less bearing on this election than mss Trump being an illegal immigrant. It might reflect on a candidate's character but they're not the one running.
But wouldn't that mean Trump was harboring an illegal alien? I think that's illegal.
. . . Oh hey! I just had the silly thought that Trump as President would go about being all Henry VIII, but just deporting his wives instead.
He also literally stated "I don't believe you can have a consentual [sic] affair with the president".
I think many, many women throughout the ages would disagree.
But he said it in such a stupid way that one of our lurkers comented on it.
And then he went on to say this:
This is the comment that really set us off, I think.
Dave
Staff member
And the ensuing conversation was why I rejected all the reports. Although a few of the posts could have been worded differently, by the time I got here it had blown over past the critical time.
And I agree with Charlie a bit about the power dynamics. You really think Lewinsky would have had an affair with just anyone in that office? I don't. And if she did she wouldn't have saved the dress. Bill absolutely used his office to get some nookie. He's done that since he was governor.
And I agree with Charlie a bit about the power dynamics. You really think Lewinsky would have had an affair with just anyone in that office? I don't. And if she did she wouldn't have saved the dress. Bill absolutely used his office to get some nookie. He's done that since he was governor.
Necronic
Staff member
There's more and more reports coming out that there are trump supporters that are considering armed resistance after the election. There is significant evidence that the 3 Kansas men who were going to bomb a mosque were going to do so in support of Trump in response to a "rigged" election.
There is a quote from a man at a trump rally who said that Clinton should be assassinated. Another who suggested we needed a coup. These are the same people who will be enlisted as "poll watchers".
This is all the direct result of the language that some people on the right have chosen to use. And this is so fucking dangerous.
At this point I don't see how anyone can still stand behind this campaign and be called a patriot anymore. It's not even enough to stand by passively. People who have let this happen need to stand up and stop it from going further.
The truth is we all have some culpability. I know I disregarded the growth of the alt-right as something more comical than dangerous, and I regret that. But I can't change the past, what I can do is stand up now and say firmly and clearly that Donald Trump and the ideology that led to his rise may represent one of the greatest threats to the union we have ever seen, and enough is enough.
I've never really personally judged someone for their political affiliations before. I think there are good, fundamental arguments for both sides of the aisle, and even if I may disagree with some of them I do understand where they come from.
No more. Trump represents so much of what is wrong with our country, and supporting him isn't simply having a different set of views, it's about hating America itself. It's about supporting hatred. Supporting dishonesty. And now it's about supporting treason. I can't in good conscience forgive that.
There is a quote from a man at a trump rally who said that Clinton should be assassinated. Another who suggested we needed a coup. These are the same people who will be enlisted as "poll watchers".
This is all the direct result of the language that some people on the right have chosen to use. And this is so fucking dangerous.
At this point I don't see how anyone can still stand behind this campaign and be called a patriot anymore. It's not even enough to stand by passively. People who have let this happen need to stand up and stop it from going further.
The truth is we all have some culpability. I know I disregarded the growth of the alt-right as something more comical than dangerous, and I regret that. But I can't change the past, what I can do is stand up now and say firmly and clearly that Donald Trump and the ideology that led to his rise may represent one of the greatest threats to the union we have ever seen, and enough is enough.
I've never really personally judged someone for their political affiliations before. I think there are good, fundamental arguments for both sides of the aisle, and even if I may disagree with some of them I do understand where they come from.
No more. Trump represents so much of what is wrong with our country, and supporting him isn't simply having a different set of views, it's about hating America itself. It's about supporting hatred. Supporting dishonesty. And now it's about supporting treason. I can't in good conscience forgive that.
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After being insulted over and over. He got jumped on first.
By Who?
Pence right at the head of voter suppression.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...-police-raid-registration-program-in-indiana/[DOUBLEPOST=1476564934,1476564846][/DOUBLEPOST]
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...-police-raid-registration-program-in-indiana/[DOUBLEPOST=1476564934,1476564846][/DOUBLEPOST]
You, Zero, Dream Goddess literally all insulted him directly after his affairs comment.
Zero Esc and Dream Goddess count as one entity in Charlie's mind, so...
Reminds me of 2 year olds who throw tantrums when they don't get their way.
Yeah, was just about to post that. 45,000 African Americans' voter registrations were seized and they may not be able to vote Nov. 8th.
Trump wants drug testing for the next debate. No I don't get it either.
http://www.cnn.com/2016/10/15/politics/donald-trump-hillary-clinton-drug-test/index.html
http://www.cnn.com/2016/10/15/politics/donald-trump-hillary-clinton-drug-test/index.html
He's made a habit of projecting his o<n flaws on his opponents - sexual abuse, corruption, weakness, etc etc etc. Clearly he was coked up during the debate and wants to pin this on her, too.
Probably interested in seeing if she's on pain meds? I can't think of any other reason he'd suggest it. It's ridiculous on its face and isn't going to happen though, and I suppose he will make hay out of that and claim she's trying to hide something.
His mind is long since gone, though, so I'm not sure why they're even giving him this press coverage.
GasBandit
Staff member
Well, I go play Factorio for a few hours and look what I miss.
Anyway @Charlie Don't Surf, I can kinda see where you were coming from in your original question to me, but yes, I think it is possible for the President of the United States to have an affair with a consenting woman. It is also possible for him to use his position of power to coerce a woman into an affair. I don't think the possibility means that we must assume all his affairs are coerced. I also think it a valid argument to say that even consensual affairs with his direct (or even indirect-by-only-one-order-of-magnitude) subordinates should be considered inappropriate, same as would any boss-employee relationship. However, the President is not the boss of everybody. He is not a dictator (not quite yet, anyway, but the way we're going, give it time), and thus every single private citizen is not, in fact, his subordinate. Rather, if the system is working as it should, he is their subordinate.
Anyway @Charlie Don't Surf, I can kinda see where you were coming from in your original question to me, but yes, I think it is possible for the President of the United States to have an affair with a consenting woman. It is also possible for him to use his position of power to coerce a woman into an affair. I don't think the possibility means that we must assume all his affairs are coerced. I also think it a valid argument to say that even consensual affairs with his direct (or even indirect-by-only-one-order-of-magnitude) subordinates should be considered inappropriate, same as would any boss-employee relationship. However, the President is not the boss of everybody. He is not a dictator (not quite yet, anyway, but the way we're going, give it time), and thus every single private citizen is not, in fact, his subordinate. Rather, if the system is working as it should, he is their subordinate.