a Trump vs Clinton United States Presidential Election in 2016

Who do you vote into the office of USA President?


  • Total voters
    48

Necronic

Staff member
I press the YDTTA button not because I am interested in defending Trump, I think he's pretty awful, but because your aggressive and accusatory attitude does nothing to help. Pointing at a large group of people and collectively telling them to go fuck themselves has never in the history of humanity lead to anything positive. A much more interesting and helpful approach would be to try to empathize, to learn why they feel the way they feel, and grow not only as a person, but collectively as a society, but that can never happen when either side is doing nothing but slinging insults at each other, which is what is happening on both sides now.
Yeah...I dunno. I'm not asking people to support Hillary, but at this point supporting Trump is a reckless and dangerous thing to do. I can't look at a Trump supporter the same way I would look at a Romney or Bush supporter. Those were people who I disagreed with on some fundamental issues but we at least shared concepts of what America is and what makes it great, our ability to govern in spite of our fundamental disagreements, because there were even more fundamental concepts we agreed on. We shared a bedrock.

Trump supporters don't fall into that category. Trump supporters do not seem to believe in the bedrock of American values. The ones every previous candidate, republican or democrat, agreed on.

So yeah. For being people that attack the bedrock of the American democracy, they can go fuck themselves.
 
@DarkAudit and @Necronic (I'm too tired to individually quote) I get very uncomfortable any time someone says "All x people are y." You are describing the vocal minority of idiots that make death threats and the like, and I absolutely agree that such behavior is abhorrent. But half the country can't be those people, they are only the most visible. To say that -anyone- that would vote for Trump must be some raving subhuman is an incredibly dangerous and inflammatory statement. A discussion would be far more enlightening rather than simply calling them out for a dick fight.


Dick fights, by the way, the next hit reality tv show on FOX.
 
I am not here to help.
You don't say.

In a way you're preaching to the choir, but in other ways you're screeching rhesus monkeying to the choir, because your posts act like the forum is swollen with Trump supporters and it's not. Living where you live, I'm guessing you're surrounded by Trump supporters each day. Maybe your words would be better used there, because here you're getting hit with "you're doing the thing again" because you're doing it again, and again, and again. It's ceaseless repetition. How about discussing all this stuff with us, or at least mocking it, or something besides each post being an official DarkAudit announcement "I hereby declare again that these villainous followers of Trump be none other than the Nazi party," etc.




In any case, my mom being the johnny-come-lately that she is when it comes to politics ... or any current events ... is just beginning to ask the ignorant questions more seasoned Trump supporters were asking a couple weeks ago. This is annoying in a way, but it also makes it really easy to dance argumentative circles around her because all the best responses have already been thought up :D.

Really I'm just waiting for the pre-election phone conversation where I'll lay out for her what she's probably avoided hearing, Trump's video, a couple choice quotes, and ask her if she'd find it acceptable for me to talk about women that way. Or my stepbrother. Or her grandson when he gets older. It's the best shot I have of waking her up, so I want to get it juuuust right.
 

Necronic

Staff member
Oh I didn't say they were subhuman. There are plenty of humans that are just flat out stupid. And a lot of them have rallied to Trumps banner.

And I refuse to accept some wishy washy concept of moral relativism to excuse their activity. A man stood on stage during our presidential debates and said he would "keep us in suspense" about whether he would accept the results of the election.

I refuse to accept that, and I refuse to excuse the acceptance of that.

Now, that said. I'm not saying that we should wash our hands of these people. They are citizens and, ironically, they represent a great need in our country, a need our government, and our people, should recognize and look the remedy.

Some of this comes from the idea that American exceptionalism is an entitlement, and that is in my opinion a terrible lie that has been perpetrated over the last few decades. Yes, America is a great country, but that greatness isn't something we're born with and guaranteed. It's something we get up for every day and we fucking EARN IT.

That's the lie Trump feeds people. He tells them that our greatness was an entitlement that was stolen.

Bullshit. Our greatness is an achievement that we are no longer earning. There is a very real difference there. Our greatness comes not from our government, but from our people. And the people that proudly proclaim for Truml do NOT represent our greatness, they represent the growing weakness of our country. And we need to address it.

And we need to address it in our schools. We need to address it in our homes. We need to stop giving people participation trophies for the simple fact of being lucky enough to be born white and American. You want to be successful? Do something about it.

We need to stop pretending that "truth" is a matter of belief. Because guess what, 50 million Elvis fans CAN be wrong. He's dead and rotting and yeah, no matter how much you want it to be otherwise maybe you SHOULD listen to the cacaophony of highly trained and specialized scientists who are screaming that global warming isn't a hoax from China.

We need to help these people, we need to wake them up to reality and get them to start pulling their fucking weight. And maybe it's too late for them. But by Jove we will stop their children from filling their cement filled shoes.

Ok rant over.
 
Jersey tends to be a very "Blue state", but our particular area has a sizable Republican following. And you can usually tell because the R voters tend to have signs on their lawn for both the local and presidential elections moreso than other parties. (I've also noticed they tend to be the houses with retirees or older couples, but I digress.) Two things I've noticed recently:

1)This is the least amount of presidential signs throughout the township/area I've seen in the 10 years I've lived here. For either side. Still tons for the local positions.

2) In our neighborhood/multi-block area, I've seen 6 houses with "Trump/Pence" signs in the last few months, including one street with 4 houses in a row. When I was walking our dog the other night, I noticed of those 4 houses, 3 have taken down their "T/P" signs, though they still have their "R" sign support for the local elections.

If anything positive can come out of this whole debacle, I'd like to think it's learning it's not just about voting the Party line.
 

Dave

Staff member
More funny shit from my dumbass brother.

Would someone please explain this to me.
She stood on that stage in front of millions of Americans. She stated "It's clear that Vladimir Putin is behind the hacks".
That is a complete and total lie!
And the simple fact that 17 intelligence agency groups have claimed that the Russians are guilty, when there's absolutely no proof whatsoever, backs up why we are pissed off! No facts exist. Conjecture on the part of these people injecting this into OUR government is disturbing at best.
We desire truth from our government, so why do so many of you still back this person that has been involved in lying to you and I for over 30 years? People have died simply because of her lies.
And how in the world can you think she will do anything to help you and your own personal situation? The only people that have benefited from her time in government, is her family and "high end" donors. I personally cannot remember any single person that has spent that much time in government, and comes out a Billionaire. As we watch the number of people in poverty explode. CLEAR EVIDENCE that she is not on the side of the American people.
Yeah, some random guy in Kentucky knows more than 17 intelligence agencies who will NEVER show everything because of security reasons. I'll buy that.
 
I'm puzzled by the sudden right-wing infatuation with Putin. These folks have spent the past 70 years screaming about Reds under the bed and Comintern infiltrators. The older guys, if they served in the military, were trained to counter a Soviet armored thrust at Fulda Gap. Now they idolize Putin because he puts up a tough facade? It just don't add up!
 
When you were taking World History Classes, have you ever wondered how the Germans and Italians were stupid enough to vote for Mussolini and Hitler?

Now we can read Facebook and see how people are dumb enough to vote Trump.
 
I'm puzzled by the sudden right-wing infatuation with Putin.
So far as I can tell it's only Trump. The fallout over the last few years when Obama seemingly stumbled or delayed in international responses to regional issues while Russia came in and in one case resolved a situation Obama drew a line in the sand on, and the vacillation on Syria, and then the issue with the Crimea may also have something to do with the current state of mind of people regarding russia. The recent failures to implement better peace treaties with Russia also speak towards missteps.

But I don't believe there's any love for Russia from the party itself.
 
From the Republican party, no - from plenty of Trump supporters, yes. Supporting a guy who lauds Putin, Assad and their like as "decisive leaders" is beyond bonkers. Any American caught praising those would've been McCarthy'd just a few decades ago.

And the right can't generally seem to agree what they want from a president - isolationism and screw the rest of the world, or interventionism and show how you're the biggest bully on the block strongest force for peace, to be listened to? Mind you, the left has the same issue - human(e) rights for everyone and we must step in, but for heaven's sake don't drone strike or put boots on the ground, and please reduce the military budget.

Had Obama done nothing about Syriah, he'd have been called weak, letting Russia (and China - why does no-one ever mention China? They're funneling millions of dollars in there) take care of things in a strategically important region. Had Obama sent a peace keeping force large enough to matter - a hundred thousand soldiers - he'd have been called a warmonger and killing your American boys for dirty terrorist foreigners.
 

Dave

Staff member
Trump says he'll respect the results of the election. If he wins.

Yes, that's exactly how he said it.
 
So far as I can tell it's only Trump. The fallout over the last few years when Obama seemingly stumbled or delayed in international responses to regional issues while Russia came in and in one case resolved a situation Obama drew a line in the sand on, and the vacillation on Syria, and then the issue with the Crimea may also have something to do with the current state of mind of people regarding russia. The recent failures to implement better peace treaties with Russia also speak towards missteps.

But I don't believe there's any love for Russia from the party itself.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...-s-conservatives-love-russias-vladimir-putin/

http://www.politicususa.com/2014/03...conservatives-love-affair-vladimir-putin.html
 
Trump says he'll respect the results of the election. If he wins.

Yes, that's exactly how he said it.
Then he goes on to compare to Gore vs Bush and the like. I don't think he understands the difference between "demanding a recount" and "not accepting the vote as valid".
 
Then he goes on to compare to Gore vs Bush and the like. I don't think he understands the difference between "demanding a recount" and "not accepting the vote as valid".
Even overlooking all of the many irregularities in the Florida election in 2000, the simple fact remains that the margin of victory was officially decided at 537 votes, in a state of over 5,500,000 registered voters. A less than 1% margin of victory seems like reasonable grounds for a recount, much less a 0.01% margin of victory.
 
People will believe all kinds of things despite the evidence which tells them otherwise.
Eh, I think it's more a case of cherry picking. I expect you'd be able to find a few specific instances where Putin's reaction to something was better than Obama's. Focus too much on those, though, and you might have an incorrect perception.
 
Eh, I think it's more a case of cherry picking. I expect you'd be able to find a few specific instances where Putin's reaction to something was better than Obama's. Focus too much on those, though, and you might have an incorrect perception.
More like confirmation bias, I think. People who dislike Obama are going to see every mis step as catastrophic, just as people who support him are more likely to dismiss these instances. I'd say the last 50 years of diplomacy have been pretty neutral considering. I don't have that hope under a Trump led administration, considering the past.
 
? Don't just hit the YDTTA button, answer the question. AFAIK, there hasn't been a single post defending Trump that wasn't really just an attack on Hillary.
You know that of those who voted Trump in this thread's poll, 3 of us have told you we did so for ironic or humorous reasons.

Only one hasn't disclosed himself. He's the one all of your vitriol (or despair) is directed at. What makes you think that person is gonna open himself up to more?


(PS, I'm betting it was @Dave)
 
It's not a private poll
Oh.

I never knew that was possible until you prompted me to go pressing everywhere.


I'm terrible at betting. I mean I generally always pick the Bills, hoping, but for the last several weeks, I've been betting against them, cause this can't last.
 
That is kind of fascinating though. No one here is willing to admit (publicly anyways) they are voting Trump. That says a lot about this sad election year.
 
Meh, I wouldn't mind. People here have hurt my feelings before, and sometimes it can be very personal, but in this sort of case, it isn't. I wouldn't go into an argument with DA because, as said, I'm fairly sure that's useless...but I wouldn't mind "coming out". Most of the time, most people here manage to be at least somewhat cortuous towards people with differing opinions. I'm sure stienman's aware I have a very different view on a number of topics, but I still like and respect him. Same for GasBandit. DA's current stance towards Trump supporters, or the general feeling towards Charlie in political threads, or LeQuack's opinion on police officers are outliers.
 

GasBandit

Staff member
That is kind of fascinating though. No one here is willing to admit (publicly anyways) they are voting Trump. That says a lot about this sad election year.
I've said over and over and over again, neither candidate would stand a chance if not for the fact they were facing each other. No matter who gets elected this year, we deserve it. We abdicated our civic responsibilities in favor of free stuff and reality TV.
 

Necronic

Staff member
I just read something kind of chilling. You know how Trump is reacting to the idea of losing by claiming the system is rigged? It's dangerous, sure, and if he loses there will be some issues but we'll pull through.

But what if he wins? What does the 2020 election look like if he is president. What does he do when he is commander in chief and may lose?

That is an incredibly frightening thought.
 
Top