a Trump vs Clinton United States Presidential Election in 2016

Who do you vote into the office of USA President?

  • Total voters
    48
Bubble181

Bubble181

Denbrought said:
If I were to rate forumites by partisanship, stienman wouldn't be near the top, unless the definition of partisanship is extended to religiosity. His political views look social-conservative because that's what Republicans have decided to pander to, but I wouldn't confuse one and the other. Black Genocide is not a republican talking point. Neither is real religious freedom (i.e. for anyone but milquetoast protestants).
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No, but see, that's a thing many people seem to not want to see. I'm going to Godwin this thread yet again, I know, sorry, but hey, you know what? "mass extermination, death, never-ending hatred of the whole world, mutilating and killing millions" wasn't the program Hitler was elected with, either.
You may be familiar with the phrase "Wir haben es nicht gewusst" - it was the main German response when all the Nazi atrocities started to come up. "We didn't know". Let's be very clear: if - I hope IF! - the mass round-ups of brown people, or Arabs, or Muslims, or Gays, or any group, starts, Americans who defended Trump to the last will not have that excuse.
 
Denbrought

Denbrought

Bubble181 said:
No, but see, that's a thing many people seem to not want to see. I'm going to Godwin this thread yet again, I know, sorry, but hey, you know what? "mass extermination, death, never-ending hatred of the whole world, mutilating and killing millions" wasn't the program Hitler was elected with, either.
You may be familiar with the phrase "Wir haben es nicht gewusst" - it was the main German response when all the Nazi atrocities started to come up. "We didn't know". Let's be very clear: if - I hope IF! - the mass round-ups of brown people, or Arabs, or Muslims, or Gays, or any group, starts, Americans who defended Trump to the last will not have that excuse.
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I'm not sure what your point is. Is anyone here against gathering and sharing as much reliable information as possible? Granted, everyone brings their biases, but I don't think anyone here is trying to advance innocence-trough-ignorance (wish I could say the same for some of my Facebook acquaintances).
 
Null

Null

Hey, remember when some of us were comparing Trump's tactics and supporters to Nazis, and we were told we were being ridiculous?

 
ThatGrinningIdiot!

ThatGrinningIdiot!

Goodness. People here are so willing to sling mud against Trump that it's not long before the boundary of fervency is crossed. It's going to be a long four years if lefties keep obsessing over this.
 
Dave

Dave

Staff member
Obsessing. Over a megalomaniacal Hitler wannabe?

Well then, call me guilty. This is the kind of thing you are SUPPOSED to obsess over. If you don't, well, then that says a lot about you.
 
Hailey Knight

Hailey Knight

ThatGrinningIdiot! said:
Goodness. People here are so willing to sling mud against Trump that it's not long before the boundary of fervency is crossed. It's going to be a long four years if lefties keep obsessing over this.
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Well gee, I wonder why people would possibly have some concerns.

Null said:
Hey, remember when some of us were comparing Trump's tactics and supporters to Nazis, and we were told we were being ridiculous?

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JCM

JCM

Dave said:
Obsessing. Over a megalomaniacal Hitler wannabe?

Well then, call me guilty. This is the kind of thing you are SUPPOSED to obsess over. If you don't, well, then that says a lot about you.
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Amen, it is dangerous to not obsess over the leader of the most powerful country taking a radical path which may make his point of view legitimate around the world.

One must remember that the problem is much bigger than Trump, add Australia's Malcolm Turnbull and you've got the future of world politics over the next few years should the world take Trump as an example.


Add to Trump, the GOP and Putin taking on a view the UN, NATO, the ICC and other international groups are now irrelevant, with Putin going as far as wanting to leave the ICC. Add the fact that China has expressed the same wish, and elections in France and England could result in Ferage and LePen, who also hold the same point of view, taking over the reins of those countries.

Did I mention that the five above are the P5, the permanent members in the UN Security Council, with veto powers?
 
Null

Null

ThatGrinningIdiot! said:
Goodness. People here are so willing to sling mud against Trump that it's not long before the boundary of fervency is crossed. It's going to be a long four years if lefties keep obsessing over this.
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He is literally reading Nazi literature to a crowd giving the Nazi salute and talking about how President Trump will restore the white race to glory. How the fuck does that not bother you?
 
Null

Null

http://www.thedailybeast.com/cheats...d-golf-course.html?via=desktop&source=copyurl

Using his elected position for profit, example #4.

After he was elected president, Donald Trump asked British politicians to oppose the construction of wind farms near one of his Scottish golf courses, the New York Times reports. Trump reportedly met with a group of pro-Brexit British officials, including Trump supporter and politician Nigel Farage. During this meeting, Trump allegedly encouraged politicians to campaign against wind farms, which he believes will ruin the view at one of his two golf courses in Scotland. “He did not say he hated wind farms as a concept; he just did not like them spoiling the views,” Andy Wigmore, a media consultant who attended the meeting told the Times, adding that Trump "did suggest that we should campaign on it” and that he “spurred us in and we will be going for it.”
 
ThatGrinningIdiot!

ThatGrinningIdiot!

Null said:
He is literally reading Nazi literature to a crowd giving the Nazi salute and talking about how President Trump will restore the white race to glory. How the fuck does that not bother you?
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Why it doesn't bother me? Simple, I'm anishnaabek, which is Ojibwe for 'the people'. My people have faced genocide before and we're still here, and trust me when I say we can damn well face it again if need be, so I ask that you spare me the histronics of Trump becoming anything like Hitler. I know what genocide looks like and how it starts. You learned of genocide through books erstwhile I still see and endure it's fucking effects today.

I'm not saying that Trump shouldn't be criticized, simply that you guys risk being lumped into the category of 'the boy who cried wolf' when you keep firing from the hip. Trump is going to do alot of idiotic things in office - all politicians do so. A little discretion will go a long way to help in picking your battles, or more importantly your criticisms of your president-elect. Normally you guys are rational when arguing or debating, but something about Trump seems to trigger you all into a frenzy, and that quality has worked in his favor and not your own.
 
@Li3n

@Li3n

Null said:
After he was elected president, Donald Trump asked British politicians to oppose the construction of wind farms near one of his Scottish golf courses, the New York Times reports.
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Wait, they haven't built those wind turbines yet? I remember that being a thing since forever (eyesore i believe he said, ruining the view etc), and Trump lost the court cases about it.
 
Hailey Knight

Hailey Knight

ThatGrinningIdiot! said:
Why it doesn't bother me? Simple, I'm anishnaabek, which is Ojibwe for 'the people'. My people have faced genocide before and we're still here, and trust me when I say we can damn well face it again if need be, so I ask that you spare me the histronics of Trump becoming anything like Hitler. I know what genocide looks like and how it starts. You learned of genocide through books erstwhile I still see and endure it's fucking effects today.

I'm not saying that Trump shouldn't be criticized, simply that you guys risk being lumped into the category of 'the boy who cried wolf' when you keep firing from the hip. Trump is going to do alot of idiotic things in office - all politicians do so. A little discretion will go a long way to help in picking your battles, or more importantly your criticisms of your president-elect. Normally you guys are rational when arguing or debating, but something about Trump seems to trigger you all into a frenzy, and that quality has worked in his favor and not your own.
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This isn't much of debating or arguing, just news and reactions. It's coming down the pipe so regularly there isn't much time for debate before the next shitball.

But framing discussion as needing to pick our battles insinuates that talking about it here equates to doing something. It isn't doing anything. So if picking our battles is important, we must be taking our time because we haven't fought a single one yet.
 
strawman

strawman

Tress said:
The steinman formula goes like this:

1) Make a very slanted, partisan comment. Don't actually worry about facts or reality.
2) Sit back while people disagree
3) Come in with a calm, holier-than-thou tone designed to make the people with opposing viewpoints seem somehow immature or foolish. Feign ignorance that you comment would ever offend or cause a reaction in people.
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Thanks for the specific, constructive criticism. I'll more carefully consider my future posts with this in mind, and if I have said anything false that I've not corrected and apologized for I'd appreciate pointers to that content so I can resolve it. I recognize I still have a lot of work to do on the tone of my posts and am continuing to work on that.
 
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Necronic

Necronic

Staff member
I agree that the Godwinning going on is not helpful. It creates a standard/expectation that, if not met, can then be used in his defense. 2 years from now people will be saying "see he never instituted a racial genocide" and using that as a defense against all the other criticism.

Trump isn't Hitler or even Hitleresque. Many of his followers definitely would/have raised their hands in salute to such a man, but Trump is not Hitler. Trump is Trump, which is its own mess of problems.

I don't think Trump is even competent enough to be compared to Hitler TBH.
 
Necronic

Necronic

Staff member
More stuff on Trump using his position to influence his business

http://www.thedailybeast.com/cheats...ed-golf-course.html?via=mobile&source=copyurl

http://mobile.nytimes.com/2016/11/2...rm-fight.html?referer=https://www.google.com/

Of course this has not yet been confirmed. Trump himself did say the following in response to the allegations.

Prior to the election it was well known that I have interests in properties all over the world. Only the crooked media makes this a big deal!
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This is of course not evidence of any wrongdoing. Neither is the accusations surrounding Argentina or India. Or Manila. His refusal to set up a blind trust or release his tax information, those should not be seen as previous indicators of potential ethical problems.

Remember he ran on a platform of being anti-corruption. That should be all we need. And of course the media is biased and out to get him. It's important to remember that he told us he would drain the swamp, and he is a very honest man.

Everything here is probably fine. Please move along.
 
Hailey Knight

Hailey Knight

Frank said:
https://www.theguardian.com/environ...esearch?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

Fuck sakes.

Cracking down on 'politically correct science monitoring'.

FOR FUCK SAKES.

Fucking acting like just the act of collecting data is a conspiracy. These fucking lunatics have reached peak anti-intellectualism. Man, if our species makes it out of this century, our generations will be judged so fucking harshly, and deservedly so.
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There is going to have to come a breaking point where our society as a whole begins to accept some scientific truths, like that the Earth is older than 6,000 years and that vaccines prevent diseases, or destroy itself, but I'm not sure we're there yet.

As for the actual policy, it sounds like Trump figures it's easier to set up home somewhere else than fix Earth, unaware of how much we'd need to start bending the laws of physics to make interstellar travel possible. Not to say it couldn't be done, or that no one's working on that, but maybe in the meantime we should stop wrecking the place as much.
 
Dave

Dave

Staff member
That's because there's evidently some evidence for vote tampering from the right. If true, it's irony at its best - the party using suppression tactics in the name of voter fraud being the party that commits the fraud. Kind of like the anti-gay zealot who turns out to be gay himself, or the husband that accuses his wife of infidelity to hide his own.
 
Frank

Frank

GasBandit said:
Or as most people call it, the voucher system?
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Yeah, the system that fucks over most rural communities.

Also, charter teachers are paid worse, have no benefits and have a hell of a lot harder time keeping experienced staff, so education is sure not to suffer.
 
Null

Null

Krisken said:
Ah private school programs. They kick out kids with problems and still on average perform as well as public schools.
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Don't forget being able to select already high-performing students in the first place. Instead of having to take everybody.
 
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