Well, maps showing infrastructure like that are always incomplete or misleading on purpose. As I'm sure, by your comment, you know. I also was just looking for a map that showed mostly oil pipelines and excluded natural gas, those maps are almost incomprehensibly dense with lines going EVERYWHERE.
Gas Bandit's Political Thread V: The Vampire Likes Bats
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Necronic
Staff member
There's so much people don't know about oil supply. Like, for instance, a LOT of it is actually hauled by truck. Think about that for a second. In fact, so much of it is hauled by truck that there is (or was, back when prices were over 100) a pretty booming business in supplying gasoline for trucks to haul oil. Think about the carbon footprint of hauling gasoline to fill trucks to haul oil.
GasBandit
Staff member
Maybe they should have built a pipeline.
Maybe Canada should have built it's own refining industry instead of trying to use ours and then refusing to sell us the product at a fair price...
They were going to do that--the white people town, not the Catholic graveyard--but the residents didn't like it, so they changed their plans to something everyone can live with, without any consequences to anyone.
That's only slightly less haunted.
What? Alberta all but gives oil companies the oil for free. Our royalties are fucking nothing compared to most.
I figure those are all angry with you for the burgers anyway.
The most controversial issue about Chik fil A is their popularizing the stereotype that cows are uneducated.
No, it's the characterization of cows as speciesist collaborators that aid in the oppression of chickens to save their own skin. Weird-ass Hunger Games stuff.
Funny, I had almost the exact same reaction.
"Huh, that actually might be a good choice... not like she can right the ship all by herself, though."
Necronic
Staff member
I think one of the really tough parts in this current war is that you have a bunch of people in ND/black hills etc who were up until very recently making more money than they had ever seen in their lives. ND is not a rich state. None of that area is rich. And they just spent the last 4-6 years or so with money being basically shoveled at them.
Then the bottom fell out of the oil market and many were left wondering how they're going to make that payment on their new F550-THE ROCK EDITION.
Then they see this pipeline and say hey, oil was good for us, so that will be good for us. Now you may be asking yourself how a pipeline will bring back oil jobs. And that's a great question. Because it probably won't. It may slightly adjust the crack spread in their favor, but things won't go back to the way they were.
There is nothing new here really. This is the way the oil game has been played for a long time. It's a complex commodity market with a lot going on, and a lot of money at stake, and the oil companies and their political beneficiaries have known for a long time that it's easy to muddy the waters by throwing crumbs at desperate people and then telling them what will bring them back.
Take all this talk about increasing drilling in the US. There are people out there that actually believe that what we need now is more domestic oil. Even though the Permian basin and Marsallas shale deposits hold enough oil to keep us going for decades. There are people that think that the main thing hurting oil companies right now is regulations, when in fact it's actually the oversupply of easily accessed Saudi oil and the slumping Chinese economy. At work we actually joke that now is the perfect time to enact more intense environmental policies since that will restrict supply and bring prices back up (with the added benefit of environmental whatnot.)
Then there's the other side were you have people thinking that low oil prices are *good* for alternative energy. I mean ffs that's idiotic. Or people thinking that because wind and solar are increasing by leaps and bounds that they will overcome natural gas and oil any time soon (50% annual growth is amazing but when you only held 1% of the market to begin with you have a ways to go).
Point is that oil is a complex and very valuable commodity and it's so easy to mislead people in a way that is beneficial to your own needs.
Then the bottom fell out of the oil market and many were left wondering how they're going to make that payment on their new F550-THE ROCK EDITION.
Then they see this pipeline and say hey, oil was good for us, so that will be good for us. Now you may be asking yourself how a pipeline will bring back oil jobs. And that's a great question. Because it probably won't. It may slightly adjust the crack spread in their favor, but things won't go back to the way they were.
There is nothing new here really. This is the way the oil game has been played for a long time. It's a complex commodity market with a lot going on, and a lot of money at stake, and the oil companies and their political beneficiaries have known for a long time that it's easy to muddy the waters by throwing crumbs at desperate people and then telling them what will bring them back.
Take all this talk about increasing drilling in the US. There are people out there that actually believe that what we need now is more domestic oil. Even though the Permian basin and Marsallas shale deposits hold enough oil to keep us going for decades. There are people that think that the main thing hurting oil companies right now is regulations, when in fact it's actually the oversupply of easily accessed Saudi oil and the slumping Chinese economy. At work we actually joke that now is the perfect time to enact more intense environmental policies since that will restrict supply and bring prices back up (with the added benefit of environmental whatnot.)
Then there's the other side were you have people thinking that low oil prices are *good* for alternative energy. I mean ffs that's idiotic. Or people thinking that because wind and solar are increasing by leaps and bounds that they will overcome natural gas and oil any time soon (50% annual growth is amazing but when you only held 1% of the market to begin with you have a ways to go).
Point is that oil is a complex and very valuable commodity and it's so easy to mislead people in a way that is beneficial to your own needs.
I'm curious about which one of you is right, and where the other got their info.
(Unless I'm dense and Ash is actually saying Canada's selling it at a price that's unfair to itself)
Canada has to sell oil to the USA because of lack of ability to GET the oil elsewhere. This is an article from last year, but it demonstrates how different the world oil price is, and the price the USA pays Canada: http://www.theglobeandmail.com/repo...s-insult-to-oil-patch-injury/article27898675/ For those not clicking through, at the bottom of the market, when the world oil price was $35/barrel, it was $20/barrel for Canadian oil. That's why Keystone XL to get oil to the Gulf Coast would help, as some of it would go directly to other countries, not just refined there and thus negotiated at (closer to) world prices.
It's also why the Northern Gateway Pipeline (now killed by the recent PM) would have been AWESOME for Canada, as again, the USA would have had to pay ACTUAL MARKET RATE for our oil, and not the discount they are paying now, because we could have just said "nope, we'd rather sell to Japan/China/wherever at the actual world rate" rather than HAVING to ship it via the USA to market.
This is why the Trans Mountain Pipeline expansion is also a good thing, as it would have the same result, just shipping via Vancouver rather than further north. LOTS more dollars for Canada, regardless of what the USA says/does. The current amount south could remain the same, but even the THREAT of their captive producer being able to go elsewhere will mean a better price for Canada.
Think of it from any other good. If you have a producer who can sell ONLY to you, do you pay them the fair market rate? I doubt it! That's essentially what's happening with a lot of (most? all?) of the oil produced in Canada right now that we don't consume ourselves.
And at the same time, we'd really rather be buying oil from you guys in Canada than from the Saudis and other OPEC countries because our money inevitably is used to oppress... but we can't really do anything about it because out economy is SO oil dependent right now and you guys don't have enough capacity for our needs. Keystone XL doesn't really benefit Americans unless they are ether involved in it's construction or a shareholder in it's owner, but we're shouldering an additional environmental risk for the sake of those profits. Asking for a more favorable market rate on some of the gasoline produced from that oil isn't out of the question in light of that factor.
And yes, nowhere near as low as the rip-off rate you've been forced to sell at. There is room for a much fairer price than what you've been selling at.
....So you'd rather oppress Canadians than Saudis?
I don't think Canada is going to use their oil money to fund state sponsored terrorists.
Bubble's right; oppress Canada.
In some places, oppression equal to about a fifth of an ounce of blood per barrel of oil! - Ethical Oil - Very right-wing author, but the research is good from the best I've been able to tell
Some places less, but still a lot of it from a lot of countries.
Recounts to happen in Wisconsin. Of course there also needs to be recounts in Michigan & Pennsylvania, and all 3 of them to flip from Trump to Clinton for her to win. Can't see it.
And even if it does happen considering Trump's rhetoric about how the election was going to be rigged before the polls opened, for him to win & then have it taken away from him? Can you imagine the absolute shitstorm that would be kicked up by the worst elements of his base?
And even if it does happen considering Trump's rhetoric about how the election was going to be rigged before the polls opened, for him to win & then have it taken away from him? Can you imagine the absolute shitstorm that would be kicked up by the worst elements of his base?
B
BErt
My God, you're right...they might act like completely vile shitheads instead of the totally rational, accepting people that they currently are.
Not saying they're rational people, but the anti-Trump protestors since the election have (based on the coverage I've seen) limited themselves to waving signs about & chanting slogans.The worst they seem to have done is...what, blocked a few roads?
The worst of the pro-Trump crowd are likely to protest Clinton winning by going to their nearest minority neighbourhood and burning it to the ground.
B
BErt
No, i get that...my point was that the actual "worst elements" are already causing a shitstorm even though they "won"
Yes, it would be worse, but they're already emboldened to act against those they hate.
At least they wouldn't be able to lie about their true motivations anymore.
Well yes there is that, I wasn't trying to imply I didn't believe that was already happening.
On to more important questions though - if Trump's win is overturned, are we still allowed to make fun of Florida for 2000?
Yes, that one will be valid until 2164.