And the reason for hate crime laws, is jury nullification. No one could get a conviction of a white man killing a black. Juries don't have an issue with convicting blacks.
Gas Bandit's Political Thread V: The Vampire Likes Bats
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Uh link? Methinks that's not how it works on multiple counts. Jury Nullification would still happen with such laws, regardless, so I think you have a misunderstanding here.
GasBandit
Staff member
I think it's a little overly cynical to assert such. If four white people had recorded themselves on facebook abusing and threatening a black person with a knife while yelling "fuck obama" and "fuck black people," they'd be seeing jail time, "hate crime" or no.
With a Federal case you don't pull a jury from the county the crime took place.
Hate crimes can be tried in federal court in the US so you're not gonna have a bunch of white people from bumfuck Alabama on the jury.
By horrific thing are you talking about the attack, the slight delay in picking the charges, the police statement, ... ?
The attack is terrible, but so is every other group-based attack, specially when race enters the equation (due to the involuntary nature of membership). On a different level, I'm sorry that a mentally disabled person being abused in the U.S. doesn't even raise my eyebrows.
The slight delay is par for the course. While these people aren't cops, you still need prosecutors to agree that the charges can be driven home (or settled). Otherwise you get <insert every over-charged white-on-black crime here>. I've made peace with how the legal system works here, strange as it seemed at first.
The police statement is a poorly worded attempt to translate the reasoning behind the delay--would a jury buy the "bluster" argument? If so, charging them with a hate crime may jeopardize the whole prosecution. I expect very little from police--if I don't trust them to police the citizenry without murdering them, why would I expect nuanced communiqués?
In America, only one point of view can be correct, at the expense of all others, even if they are only tangentially related.
GasBandit
Staff member
I don't think you understand, Dave... the suspects are not white.
Dave
Staff member
Fuck 'em. Hate crimes are hate crimes.
Personally, I think ALL crimes are hate crimes and that the hate crime designation is bullshit, but that's another argument for another time.
Disability is the element of opportunity here. I don't think many people would suggest this was a hate crime due to disability, rather than race.
Dave
Staff member
And there it is.
http://www.cnn.com/2017/01/05/us/chicago-facebook-live-beating/index.html
Hate crime charged.
http://www.cnn.com/2017/01/05/us/chicago-facebook-live-beating/index.html
Hate crime charged.
Motives are critical in criminal law. That is why we have designations of manslaughter and murder. Is criminal negligence hateful? It is certainly odd to speak of hate in that way. I think classifying all crimes as hate crimes neglects this important consideration.
Although the question has been answered officially, this article is still a good read: What makes a crime a ‘hate crime’? And would the Chicago attack qualify?
Snippet that contradicts my above post:
Snippet that contradicts my above post:
So I picked up something completely tangential in that hate crime article:
I mean, I assume it's just a case of the Capt. responding to a question without enough time to word his thoughts properly, but still my mind boggled at the idea the cops are praised for caring enough to do their fucking job
GasBandit
Staff member
Technically there's nothing illegal about going out in shorts on a cold day.
"Clearly in distress and in crisis" =/= "wearing shorts".
No, but what they saw was the guy in distress, they recognized the signs that there had been a crime committed. They did that part of their job well - and should be praised for that, not for caring enough to not just go for donuts anyway.
The attack itself.
Den, I'm still saying that this is basically UNprecidented. Outside of movies/TV, when's the last time you heard about a kidnapping and torture being live-streamed? Add in a heap of racism along with it, along with the disabled aspect... these people are basically TV/Movie villains, but not anonymous, so they got caught immediately.
But the scale of the crime... this is not typical race crime, from any angle. Live kidnap/torture streaming on the internet, and not from the middle east either. From Chicago. That's f'n terrifying. And then the downplaying of this from any angle is just sickening on top of that.
Ohhh. The live-stream aspect is new, though I'm not sure why you think it's so noteworthy vs. first committing the atrocity and then uploading it, like in every other atrocity that reaches the net.
It's understandable that the proximity, geographical or cultural, to the crime terrifies you. I personally had trouble sleeping for about a week after watching the flaying+torture that was posted on /r/watchpeopledie recently, and I'm not even in the same continent, class, culture, or ethnicity. I think you're overreacting when it comes to the police statement, which I think was poorly worded but probably understandable with more background info.
This was a crime by human beings, not cartoon villains. There probably was an instigator in the group, and then tribalism and natural cruelty took over. They will all pay dearly in loss of liberty for what they did, and can hopefully be rehabilitated.
Then he says he wasn't mocking the disabled reporter, he's was merely imitating him in a disparaging manner.
THAT'S FUCKING MOCKING.
THAT'S ALMOST THE DICTIONARY DEFINITION YOU CRETIN![DOUBLEPOST=1483969825,1483969349][/DOUBLEPOST]HOW DID YOU ELECT THIS MAN!?
I don't believe this world is real anymore.
THAT'S FUCKING MOCKING.
THAT'S ALMOST THE DICTIONARY DEFINITION YOU CRETIN![DOUBLEPOST=1483969825,1483969349][/DOUBLEPOST]HOW DID YOU ELECT THIS MAN!?
I don't believe this world is real anymore.
Because this country is racist trash.
and has also been bought and paid for.
Apparently Trump supporters are saying Streep should shut up because she's a rich celebrity, and doesn't know anything.
Uh
Guys
Guys
Uh
Guys
Guys
[QUOTE="Frank, post: 1327278, member: 130]WE ARE KELLYANNE.[/QUOTE]
No, you're Frank.
No, you're Frank.