[Question] Would you voluntarily microchip yourself?

Dave

Dave

Staff member
strawman

strawman

I wouldn't bother if it's only for one entity. Once they come out with one that can act as multiple bank cards, start all my cards, etc, - in other words replace a large portion of my keyring and wallet, then I'll consider it.

Until then, what, you're going to install a dozen different chips that do different things, and hope there's no consequences?

One and done.
 
Dave

Dave

Staff member
Really? If it allowed for online banking, riding the subway, toll roads, etc. you'd be all for it? You don't think it's a little intrusive to your privacy?
 
strawman

strawman

You have fingerprints, and you leave them on every surface you touch, in every place you go, and they stay behind so your previous presence can be determined.

Is that intrusive to your privacy? If so you can wear gloves.

A microchip will be hard to read from far (it won't be powered) so you have to be within several feet of the person, and you have to position yourself so they aren't between you and the chip (ie, the reader will make it through a little skin, but not your whole body), not only that but to read from more than a few inches the reader will be necessarily large (briefcase size or bigger), and power hungry.

But they can't detect where you've been after you've left, and the chip won't release confidential information (if designed properly). And if it really bothers you, you could wear gloves that block the RF, though if that's really a problem you might as well not have it at all.

As far as transaction privacy, all my phone communications, current location, browsing history, and credit/debit purchases are already tracked by the government. I have Alexa in my home, Siri in my pocket, and I'm on the internet 80% of my waking hours.

And you're worried about an RFID tag?

Part of the reason I may be comfortable with them is that I've designed systems to use RFID and I know how it works, its limitations, how secure it is, etc, etc. It's no more invasive that any other of the many personally identifiable artifacts you carry.

Shoot, my driver's license (and soon everyone's driver's license) has an RFID chip in it - the state helpfully provides an RF blocking sleeve, but your credit cards may have it, and your phone, if it supports bluetooth, wifi, cellular, or a non contact payment system, is way more trackable than an embedded rfid chip. I can buy a device that will identify all the cell phones within a few hundred feet, and tracking that over time I could associate the phones with various people and their phone numbers.

Unless you don't carry a cellphpone, driver's license, RFID enabled credit cards, and you mask your identity (face detection software is being used on most urban city cameras now, particularly around points of terrorist interest such as stadiums), and wear gloves, then an embedded RFID chip doesn't expose you any more than you're already exposed.
 
Denbrought

Denbrought

Dave said:
Really? If it allowed for online banking, riding the subway, toll roads, etc. you'd be all for it? You don't think it's a little intrusive to your privacy?
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Doesn't seem worse than the wiretap that 95% of American adults carry (cellphones), or the tracking device that 77% carry (smartphones). A lot of recent technology exists on a privacy/convenience axis.
 
strawman

strawman

I would demand two factor authentication, though. A 6 or 8 digit pin and the chip would be sufficient for me.
 
Gared

Gared

Honestly, after reading Stienman's response, I'd have no problem being chipped for his reasons, but for the context of the story in question, there's no way in hell. If all the thing does is get me into my work systems, those bastards can use regular biometric systems or HID cards and passwords like everyone else - just actually update your security protocol so it's not relying on Microsoft's 10+ year old authentication scheme and "strong password" definitions. Does the story mention anything about what happens when an employee is terminated? Do they have a way to remotely deactivate your chip so you can't sell access to your former company's data (and their data structures)? Surely they can just deactivate that chip's access to keep it out of their buildings and computer systems, but how do they prevent a former employee from selling the chip to a competitor or hacker? Worse yet, is there a clause in the employment contract regarding how soon after termination you're required to have the chip removed in order to return it to them? What are the ethics questions surrounding how those chips are destroyed? Would recycling the chips and reusing them be allowed? Even if it wasn't allowed, would the company calculate the cost of potential punitive actions and do it anyway? Not that I think calculated risk is always a bad thing, just that, with any theory/practice, it has no morals of its own, and must rely upon those of the human ordering its calculation. That's a LOT of questions to be answered just to have quick, secure access to my employer's buildings and computer systems.
 
drawn_inward

drawn_inward

I'm with Dave on this one. If it was totally unhackable (which is bloody unlikely) then maybe. I don't trust government agencies to not track it, and I certainly don't trust businesses from tracking me more than they already do. Our smartphone probably get tracked way more than we are comfortable with already or cc swipes or on-line activity, etc.
 
blotsfan

blotsfan

I can't say I wouldn't ever but I tend to be a bit paranoid with this stuff (even if it's not totally logical). I don't keep "Hey Siri" on and the Alexa I got as a birthday gift is still in its box.
 
GasBandit

GasBandit

Staff member
I'm ambivalent about the idea. I know my smartphone already tracks every move I make and tells google about it, and I've had no problem carrying an RFID card in my wallet on previous jobs (I like unlocking doors just by touching them with my butt), but I don't think I'd go out of my way to get one, either. I barely make doctors appointments for things I NEED to get taken care of already :p
 
drawn_inward

drawn_inward

GasBandit said:
I'm ambivalent about the idea. I know my smartphone already tracks every move I make and tells google about it, and I've had no problem carrying an RFID card in my wallet on previous jobs (I like unlocking doors just by touching them with my butt), but I don't think I'd go out of my way to get one, either. I barely make doctors appointments for things I NEED to get taken care of already :p
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And you call yourself a Libertarian. :confused:

Instead of office, how about government mandated chip-I.D.?
 
Eriol

Eriol

drawn_inward said:
And you call yourself a Libertarian. :confused:

Instead of office, how about government mandated chip-I.D.?
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This is DEFINITELY moving into the political realm with that question, but here's my simple answer: a corporation can't MANDATE you to have it with the penalty being jail, a government can. Thus there's a lot of things that I'm OK contracting with a corporation that they can do which I would NOT be OK with the government mandating, and usually not even optional with them either.
 
GasBandit

GasBandit

Staff member
Gruebeard said:
I'm pretty sure the only data on that chip is an ID number.
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This. The only thing the chip carries is a serial number. It's up to a stored database to have the information that corresponds to that serial number. If the database gets wiped out, or your record gets deleted, the chip is useless.

That's also how your pet's chips work, too, btw.
 
Gruebeard

Gruebeard

I already carry a RFID microchip in my pocket while at work so I can get in to the buildings, and that's fine.

But there's no fucking way I'm sticking anything work-related inside me.
 
GasBandit

GasBandit

Staff member
I mean, an important distinction is that I can choose to leave behind my RFID card and phone.

A chip would require a little... digging.

 
Dirona

Dirona

Nope nope nope-ity nope nope. With a side of 'hell no.'

We talked about this tech in University a decade ago when it was new. It was a shitty corporate move then and it still is.
 
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