Had less of a problem with it during Luke Cage, since that was the overall tone of the show. It's so out of place in Defenders.
[TV] The General Marvel TV/Streaming Thread
- Thread starter evilmike
- Start date
Yes - not by much. I guess I'd rather re-watch LC over IF, but while I was annoyed by Danny I was annoyed by the whole episodes of LC. Soooo boring.[DOUBLEPOST=1503430325,1503430250][/DOUBLEPOST]
I don't think it's the actor's fault. It's his whiny dialogue and slow character development.
We ended up going through the rest of The Defenders tonight because episode 6 was really good and there wasn't much left.
I can't help but feel let down and underwhelmed. Maybe I got too excited, but it also feels like a lot of the potential here was mishandled. I've seen Sigourney Weaver in lots of stuff and I can't remember her coming off this flat before. Madame Gao acting subservient was weird because that actress was commanding more presence.
Then the fights. Some of them were solidly shot. Others were edited terribly, suffering from swaying camera arcs and quick cuts. Daredevil season 1 fights really set a high bar. It was also annoying that the show runners seemed to forget Jessica's strength until it was convenient. Why is Matt leaping up boxes while she heads for the stairs when she can just leap up to where he's headed?
The writing was a step down from each of the other shows except Iron Fist.
There were enough enjoyable elements packed in to have a lot of appeal, but the whole thing could've accomplished much more than what it did with what it was given.
I can't help but feel let down and underwhelmed. Maybe I got too excited, but it also feels like a lot of the potential here was mishandled. I've seen Sigourney Weaver in lots of stuff and I can't remember her coming off this flat before. Madame Gao acting subservient was weird because that actress was commanding more presence.
Then the fights. Some of them were solidly shot. Others were edited terribly, suffering from swaying camera arcs and quick cuts. Daredevil season 1 fights really set a high bar. It was also annoying that the show runners seemed to forget Jessica's strength until it was convenient. Why is Matt leaping up boxes while she heads for the stairs when she can just leap up to where he's headed?
The writing was a step down from each of the other shows except Iron Fist.
There were enough enjoyable elements packed in to have a lot of appeal, but the whole thing could've accomplished much more than what it did with what it was given.
For clarity: The Defenders is good, but it should've been great.
Two points for end of episode 8:
Two points for end of episode 8:
I'm glad the Hand is done with. Enough with ninjas, I'm looking forward to the re-focus on crime and/or personal stuff. I don't know if Elektra will be coming back, but there really wasn't going to be anything Matt could do for her.
Also, I was shocked that Misty actually lost her arm. That did a nod to the fans in Luke Cage season 1, and I figured that'd be all, but fuck, they went for it.
Also, I was shocked that Misty actually lost her arm. That did a nod to the fans in Luke Cage season 1, and I figured that'd be all, but fuck, they went for it.
I just finished Shut-up, Danny: The Sequel The Defenders, and over-all, I really enjoyed it, although it didn't blow my mind like some of the individual seasons. I think that's the hardest part of these group outings (both in the movies and on tv) is trying to give everyone a chance to show up, but not necessarily equal time.
Spoiler-ish stuff:
And I am still completely uninterested in The Punisher. Unless you guys are raving about it, I may skip that one.
Spoiler-ish stuff:
Please tell me this means the next time Iron Fist shows up, he won't be so damn whiny. I do like how EVERYONE made fun of him for it. I don't think he needs another solo series, but I can deal with him in a group setting.
I was seriously worried they were going to pull a Whedon with Claire at some point. Instead, they took Misty's arm, which managed to be both surprising and appropriate. I'm going to assume the replacement will be Rand tech instead of Stark tech, since using other Marvel names on Netflix is like saying Voldemort.
Luke and Jessica possibly "getting coffee", huh? I know in the comics it leads to Danielle, but I really don't want to see Luke screwing over Claire. And speaking of screwing, I wonder how many of the characters are aware of how much bed-hopping has gone on in their Defenders circle?
I wished they had fleshed out Alexandra a bit more. I love Sigourney Weaver, and wanted her around more, but they didn't give her a hell of a lot to do. But unlike some others have said, I don't know Madame Gao was demuring to her as much as Gao was playing all sides. Gao knows when to use force, but she also knows she survives if her head isn't the one in the line of fire. Sometimes it's smarter to move the players where you want them, and let them fight it out for you. Odds are if Matt survived, she survived, too.
It was good they found a way to bring everyone's supporting cast in and giving them a chance to interact with each other. If it had been a longer, I would have like to see Trish, Karen and Foggy form their own Scooby gang.
I was seriously worried they were going to pull a Whedon with Claire at some point. Instead, they took Misty's arm, which managed to be both surprising and appropriate. I'm going to assume the replacement will be Rand tech instead of Stark tech, since using other Marvel names on Netflix is like saying Voldemort.
Luke and Jessica possibly "getting coffee", huh? I know in the comics it leads to Danielle, but I really don't want to see Luke screwing over Claire. And speaking of screwing, I wonder how many of the characters are aware of how much bed-hopping has gone on in their Defenders circle?
I wished they had fleshed out Alexandra a bit more. I love Sigourney Weaver, and wanted her around more, but they didn't give her a hell of a lot to do. But unlike some others have said, I don't know Madame Gao was demuring to her as much as Gao was playing all sides. Gao knows when to use force, but she also knows she survives if her head isn't the one in the line of fire. Sometimes it's smarter to move the players where you want them, and let them fight it out for you. Odds are if Matt survived, she survived, too.
It was good they found a way to bring everyone's supporting cast in and giving them a chance to interact with each other. If it had been a longer, I would have like to see Trish, Karen and Foggy form their own Scooby gang.
And I am still completely uninterested in The Punisher. Unless you guys are raving about it, I may skip that one.
Danny may take on the role of Daredevil like he did in the comics at one point, or he might finally strike out on his own in the street now that his "destiny" has been fulfilled.
I felt they did their best in giving every character needed time. The show accomplished that. One thing that bugged me was multiple plot contrivances to force a situation to happen; the other shows were better about more natural progression of events. Some of those felt overlong, but this one felt in a rush.
That said, a review pointed out that most of the characters had some kind of arc that will affect their individual shows, and that is pretty cool.
all the other defenders were making fun of Matt's costume and mask, but it should be pointed out that the hand had know clue who he was and his friends were the only ones never truly in direct harm.
Just a little detail I thought was pretty great. Which kind of sums up the show. A lot of attention paid to the little character moments. With the plot that serves its purpose of moving the pieces around the board and giving us character interactions and fight scenes. Nothing as ambitious or thematic as what was delivered or attempted (Iron Fist) with the individual shows, but I don't think it needed to be.
Wait... pretty sure Milady was Athos' ex.
And that works just fine, as she's certainly Killgrave level at convincing people.
Something I didn't notice, but was pointed out to me about the last line of The Defenders.
That would've certainly been a gut punch if I'd read the comics and had any idea that's what was going on, cause holy shit.
Sister Maggie being mentioned ... likely Maggie Murdock, Matt's mom.
That would've certainly been a gut punch if I'd read the comics and had any idea that's what was going on, cause holy shit.
figmentPez
Staff member
The CW is making a grim 'n gritty reboot of Sabrina the Teenage Witch to go along with Riverdale (the dark version of Arhcie). The Chilling Adventures of Sabrina. Putting a witch character into a horror series isn't a terrible stretch, but with how many things are getting dark reboots lately, it kinda feels like 90s comics are infecting everything.
The next reboot:
Charmin Black
Sophisticated toilet paper, for adults only.
The next reboot:
Charmin Black
Sophisticated toilet paper, for adults only.
I haven't read it yet based on my hatred of Archie comics (no really, I want to read ten pages for a one-joke setup), but The Chilling Adventures of Sabrina is currently an offshoot of the Afterlife with Archie series about her in the 60s. I actually plan on reading it, as it's supposed to be a classic horror comic.
Anyone else watching The Punisher?
We're three episodes in and so far it's the best of the Marvel Netflix shows to have come out this year.
We're three episodes in and so far it's the best of the Marvel Netflix shows to have come out this year.
Finished it last night. Outside of a couple pacing issues (why does Netflix have such a hardon for throwing a weirdly-structured episode into the middle of every season to fuck up the pacing?) I enjoyed it a lot. Hoping it jumps the queue and gets a second season before some of the other series.
Likewise. Comics Punisher annoys me, but Berenthal is compelling.
I fell WAY behind on the Netflix Marvel shows. I hadn't seen Iron Fist or Defenders, but I really wanted to watch Punisher. BUT, I also didn't want to jump ahead of the chronological order. I know they're largely self-contained and I could probably watch Punisher without needing to see the others. It's a weird principle for me to watch them in "proper" order.
So I finally started watching Iron Fist recently. Or, well, continued watching it after seeing the first episode a while back and then not getting back into it. Gah, sorry, late night rambling.
ANYWAY, I'm actually kind of enjoying it. It's definitely not as good as the other shows, but so far, I don't think it's as bad as people were saying. I just finished on episode 6, so we'll see how it goes from there.
Then I'll do Defenders. Then Punisher. So much frigging stuff to watch these days. I barely watch TV shows anymore, save for Doctor Who, Flash, and Black Mirror.
So I finally started watching Iron Fist recently. Or, well, continued watching it after seeing the first episode a while back and then not getting back into it. Gah, sorry, late night rambling.
ANYWAY, I'm actually kind of enjoying it. It's definitely not as good as the other shows, but so far, I don't think it's as bad as people were saying. I just finished on episode 6, so we'll see how it goes from there.
Then I'll do Defenders. Then Punisher. So much frigging stuff to watch these days. I barely watch TV shows anymore, save for Doctor Who, Flash, and Black Mirror.
Finish Iron Fist. And yeah, I didn't think it was as bad as I've seen many others say. Not here, but elsewhere on the net. Seems most on here didn't hate it. It's still by FAR the weakest of the shows. It was never really clear what the hell The Hand (the non-Gao group) were doing. They never really did anything outright evil that I could see. Plus, they're a fucking ninja death cult. Why the hell does the canon fodder look like generic goons with guns? THEY'RE AN EVEN NINJA DEATH CLUB. GIVE ME SOME FUCKING NINJAS.
The Meecham family really brought the show down. I agree with @Zero Esc: their motivations seemed to change on a dime. I get they were going for this constant corporate backstabbing, but it just didn't work. Especially Joy's last scene. Where the hell did that come from? Colleen, Claire, and Madame Gao were definitely the best parts of the show.
Also, I don't think Danny was as bad as others said. I went into it expecting this petulant, annoying child. And while that's not entirely wrong, this is my interpretation: he's still a child who never got to grow up. BUT, he's trying to put on this peaceful, philosophical front to hide all that pain that he never worked through. I think it's supposed to purposely come across as shallow or forced. As the show progresses, those barriers break down and he becomes more aggravated; less controlled like we saw at the beginning.
That said, I don't think I'd be interested in a second season of Iron Fist. They didn't make me care about K'un Lun, so the mystery in its final fate equally didn't make me care. I would like to see Davos back. I liked his character and he had good reason to be angry. If they combined his show with Luke Cage and had them do their thing as in the comics, I think that'd be fine. I'll have to see how well the two actors play off each other in Defenders.
Speaking of which, I'll start tackling that this weekend. I hear it's at least better than Iron Fist, but was also kind of disappointing.
The Meecham family really brought the show down. I agree with @Zero Esc: their motivations seemed to change on a dime. I get they were going for this constant corporate backstabbing, but it just didn't work. Especially Joy's last scene. Where the hell did that come from? Colleen, Claire, and Madame Gao were definitely the best parts of the show.
Also, I don't think Danny was as bad as others said. I went into it expecting this petulant, annoying child. And while that's not entirely wrong, this is my interpretation: he's still a child who never got to grow up. BUT, he's trying to put on this peaceful, philosophical front to hide all that pain that he never worked through. I think it's supposed to purposely come across as shallow or forced. As the show progresses, those barriers break down and he becomes more aggravated; less controlled like we saw at the beginning.
That said, I don't think I'd be interested in a second season of Iron Fist. They didn't make me care about K'un Lun, so the mystery in its final fate equally didn't make me care. I would like to see Davos back. I liked his character and he had good reason to be angry. If they combined his show with Luke Cage and had them do their thing as in the comics, I think that'd be fine. I'll have to see how well the two actors play off each other in Defenders.
Speaking of which, I'll start tackling that this weekend. I hear it's at least better than Iron Fist, but was also kind of disappointing.
I was ok with Iron Fist until that last Joy scene. Somehow that managed to undermine basically everything good that happened by the end of the series, and I just don't understand what the hell it was supposed to be doing. It was bad enough that I'd be completely alright with Iron Fist being dropped as its own show and Danny/Colleen just show up in other, worthwhile series going forward.
Defenders is better than Iron Fist, but it really felt like they took the least interesting elements out of each of the shows (especially Daredevil...) and decided to put them all together to make one muddled plot. I would've happily taken another full season of Luke Cage or Jessica Jones over the teamup.
Defenders is better than Iron Fist, but it really felt like they took the least interesting elements out of each of the shows (especially Daredevil...) and decided to put them all together to make one muddled plot. I would've happily taken another full season of Luke Cage or Jessica Jones over the teamup.
I think Defenders was decent, but some people, like myself, were getting way too hyped, thinking it was going to be the Netflix equivalent of The Avengers, when more it was Iron Fist, season 2, with its own mix of cool moments and lame pacing.
I think Defenders season 2 will be stronger if they make it, but I'd really like them to ditch Iron Fist season 2 and just make Luke and Danny the heroes of Heroes for Hire.
I think Defenders season 2 will be stronger if they make it, but I'd really like them to ditch Iron Fist season 2 and just make Luke and Danny the heroes of Heroes for Hire.
Finished The Punisher tonight.
Excellent. This was the show I really didn't care about seeing and it ended up being one of Netflix Marvel's best. Even the middle oddness wasn't as intrusive as in Daredevil and Jessica Jones. Thematically, story, just excellent.
Excellent. This was the show I really didn't care about seeing and it ended up being one of Netflix Marvel's best. Even the middle oddness wasn't as intrusive as in Daredevil and Jessica Jones. Thematically, story, just excellent.
Finished The Defenders. And it was...okay. There were some fun moments and the four of them had great chemistry, but it was overall rather disappointing. The main villains were just boring. And Elektra's sudden turn came out of nowhere. Her motivations made no sense, really. I hope we never see The Hand again now.
Also, does anyone remember my complaint about last year's DC CW crossover? Where they did this big, cool special effect for Vixen and then did nothing with it? THE SAME THING HAPPENED HERE. Last episode, the big final fight, Danny powers up his fist and does something cool. Then his hand glows for the rest of the fight BUT THEY DO JACK SHIT WITH IT. They've built up this Iron Fist to do something special every time he powers it up. Exploding walls, knocking out Luke Cage, healing deadly wounds. So finally, he maintains the fist for a longer period and there's no payoff? God, that pisses me off.
Plus, at least half of the whole series was people arguing about doing something. In the last episode, it takes part of the group forever to get where they need to go.
I'll probably sound crazy, but I kind of liked Iron Fist a little more than this.
Also, does anyone remember my complaint about last year's DC CW crossover? Where they did this big, cool special effect for Vixen and then did nothing with it? THE SAME THING HAPPENED HERE. Last episode, the big final fight, Danny powers up his fist and does something cool. Then his hand glows for the rest of the fight BUT THEY DO JACK SHIT WITH IT. They've built up this Iron Fist to do something special every time he powers it up. Exploding walls, knocking out Luke Cage, healing deadly wounds. So finally, he maintains the fist for a longer period and there's no payoff? God, that pisses me off.
Plus, at least half of the whole series was people arguing about doing something. In the last episode, it takes part of the group forever to get where they need to go.
I'll probably sound crazy, but I kind of liked Iron Fist a little more than this.
Absolutely. I thought they were the lesser half of Daredevil season 2 and only became less interesting since.
I loved the four of them together, but I do feel like the stakes in The Defenders never felt as high as other seasons? chapters? Whatever. The Hand arc is over (hopefully) and since they've all had their intros, I really hope they focus on making more engaging villains. That's sort of Marvel's weak spot with the live action adaptations. It's not that they can't or haven't, they just don't do it enough.
Still haven't watched The Punisher yet. Mr. Z binged it that first weekend and really liked it. I walked in on two separate scenes that made me go, "Oh?" and "...ugh. And there is it." I should probably give it a chance but bllllleeeeeaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.
Still haven't watched The Punisher yet. Mr. Z binged it that first weekend and really liked it. I walked in on two separate scenes that made me go, "Oh?" and "...ugh. And there is it." I should probably give it a chance but bllllleeeeeaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.
I feel ya, but it's worth checking out. Considering the source material, it has no business being as good as it is. I've seen fans of Punisher in the comics get mad at the show for its portrayal, if that helps.
