BananaHands
Staff member
It’s cool we still have a frozen fitz in space they can grab now that the timeloop is broken.
[TV] S.H.I.E.L.D.
- Thread starter evilmike
- Start date
Yay multiverse creating time travel...
I'm guessing they didn't do The Thing because they where not sure they'd get renewed, and this was a pretty good ending overall.
But i am a bit disappointed that Fury's paging didn't also go to Coulson, since he was involved in that ting in the 90s too.
The first time I saw IW, was saying under my breath " Be Coulson... be Coulson...be Coulson..." under my breath before they revealed the logo.
I was wondering how they were going to rectify the double Fitz problem when / if the loop was broken, though pretty morbid way to do it. Also, people keep questioning if Deke blinked out of existence, but keep ignoring key facts that heavily disprove it, like the fact Gemma found his pocket knife given to him by Fitz in the future, which should have blinked out of existence with him.
I thought it was a great episode. I liked how the time loop was resolved. Not only did it give a logical agency to Coulson, it also felt like the original choice, and the choice that would continue the loop, was really natural. Of course, they'll end up choosing Coulson instead of Graviton. Until Coulson chose something different and the loop broke. I think all time travel stories are, by their nature, a little bit broken, but this fit together pretty much as well as it possibly could.
There was honestly only one part that made me guffaw a bit, and that was the very short fight scene.
Throughout all the seasons, Daisy's abilities have never shown her to gain any sort of super-human durability. I mean, just two episodes ago, Daisy was knocked unconscious by being flung into a ceiling, and yet during the conflict, Talbot lifts her a hundred stories into the air and smashes her so hard into the ground that it craters, and we are expected to believe she can just stand up with only a bit of blood spittle and be fine by the epilogue. Her regular human bones, the ones that her powers were fracturing just last season until she gained better control, should be shattered by that impact, let alone the unimaginable things that would happen to the rest of her body.
Also, I was getting really annoyed how Talbot kept going on and on about "taking" Robin or Daisy's power. He could absorb people, yes, but there was nothing even hinting that this gave him their actual powers. The only powered individual he even absorbed was Carl Creel, and at no point do we see him transform into any other materials even as a throw off, like turning to metal when getting shot at by Mack and YoYo in the second to last episode. I know it's implied that him gaining Daisy's powers combined with his gravity abilities is what cracked the planet in the end, but seriously at least hint such a thing is possible, even a small one.
On the flip I did enjoy how when we finally got a good look at the globe, Robin marked all the areas of the world that were cracked away in the future as sources of gravitonium, really pushing that it was Talbot who basically destroyed the planet in his quest for his charge up.
Throughout all the seasons, Daisy's abilities have never shown her to gain any sort of super-human durability. I mean, just two episodes ago, Daisy was knocked unconscious by being flung into a ceiling, and yet during the conflict, Talbot lifts her a hundred stories into the air and smashes her so hard into the ground that it craters, and we are expected to believe she can just stand up with only a bit of blood spittle and be fine by the epilogue. Her regular human bones, the ones that her powers were fracturing just last season until she gained better control, should be shattered by that impact, let alone the unimaginable things that would happen to the rest of her body.
Also, I was getting really annoyed how Talbot kept going on and on about "taking" Robin or Daisy's power. He could absorb people, yes, but there was nothing even hinting that this gave him their actual powers. The only powered individual he even absorbed was Carl Creel, and at no point do we see him transform into any other materials even as a throw off, like turning to metal when getting shot at by Mack and YoYo in the second to last episode. I know it's implied that him gaining Daisy's powers combined with his gravity abilities is what cracked the planet in the end, but seriously at least hint such a thing is possible, even a small one.
On the flip I did enjoy how when we finally got a good look at the globe, Robin marked all the areas of the world that were cracked away in the future as sources of gravitonium, really pushing that it was Talbot who basically destroyed the planet in his quest for his charge up.
Well, being able to create a force pushing against anything outside your body should allow you to be able to use it to lessen impacts, and we can just assume all the times she didn't use it that way was a failure on her part. After her powers got centipede-boosted maybe she just got a lot better at using them to shield herself.
Inhumans have been shown to be a bit stronger then humans (see: her fighting Kree)... but that's not that relevant to your point.
I've, for one, always assumed the bone shatterng was showing that she didn't control her powers fully, yet.
But didn't her absorb him as gravitonium... that's a pretty good excuse as to why he didn't get his powers.
The attack happened before she injected herself with the serum. She has shown an ability to lessen impact by slowing herself down with her powers, but she was shown taking a terminal velocity impact during that fight, so even if she did use her powers to just stop instantly, she would still take the equivilent force of hitting the ground.
Every character has been shown to be able to put up a fight versus the Kree in some form, like May and Mack. All the Inhuman powers are very specialized and thus other then the power itself, most are shown to simply be human otherwise. Hell, Jaying was literally able to come back from the dead a few times and regenerate wounds by stealing lifeforce, and yet she died when Cal broke her spine with his bare hands.
Remember, she was shown shattering her arms as recent as the start of Season 4, back when she was stealing medications from SHIELD while under the vigilante alias of Quake and didn't have her gauntlets anymore. The only time she isn't getting hurt in some way is due to her Fitzsimmons crafted gauntlets designed to spread out the vibrations and thus keep them from hurting the rest of her more "human" physiology.
He absorbs all of them as gravitonium, that's the point. It absorbs them into itself by turning them into gravitonium. Even still, going the opposite direction of not having absorbed ANY powered individuals does not help the fact he has never been shown the ability to absorb powers.
Oh right, it was before teh serum.
But we're still applying comic book rules, and we can just assume she used her powers like Shocker does, to protect herself from
But Daisy was the only one taking them on punch to punch.
No, it was implied Creel gave him a power boost, and that's why he talked him into turning in to gravitonium. The rest he just covered with it. Otherwise why is he bothering to find more gravitonium is he can just turn people into it?
Not really.
May herself went up versus Sinara right after this, and the only reason she lost is because she still had a crippling leg injury when she first teleported to the future and found a steel pipe sticking through it. Otherwise they were going toe-to-toe. The Kree have never really been shown to be THAT much stronger then humans (more durable, yes, but nothing a decent kick never stopped). Nothing that Daisy's advanced spy training shouldn't be able to compensate for anyways.
Because he also takes on the consciousness of the person he consumes. He feels he is able to handle the other voices in his head like Hall, Quin, Creel, and that alien dude, but even he might not be all that keen on having thousands of them screaming at him when he can instead collect what he needs from the planet itself.
Notice how they're all using weapons? While Daisy was punching them.
Yeah, they're not that much stronger, but neither are Inhumans.
But then why trick Creel into turning into Vibranium?
I thought he implication was clear.
Gravitonium?
Also, you have to remember that some of the old Talbot is still there. He worked with Creel a lot following his deprogramming, and Creel even helped save his son. He was not trying to turn him into gravitonium just to gain more power, but also because he was trying to give Creel one last moment of peace before he absorbed him.
FINALLY caught up. This season was pretty damn good, though it feels utterly disconnected from... anything going on in the Marvel Universe during this.
The shows still technically fall under Marvel Entertainment, while the movies fall under Marvel Studios. Kevin Feige basically convinced Bob Iger (CEO of Disney) to sever him and the studio from Marvel Entertainment when it comes to management. This was one of the reasons the Inhuman's movie was dropped, as it only existed because Ike Perlmutter of Marvel Entertainment wanted to bring them to the forefront in an attempt to replace the X-Men, who he has always been bitter about remaining under the control of Fox. Once the break happened, Feige dropped them and Perlmutter attempted to make the Inhuman's TV series instead with ABC.
The fact they even attempt to tie in the movies and the shows together is mostly because Perlmutter still wants to ride that sweet, sweet movie hype, but Feige pretty much ignores them. You can see there is possibly other legal rifts at play we don't even know about, because I have noticed outside of Agents of Shield's rare name drops, pretty much all the extended Marvel TV shows go out of their way never to mention any of the movie heros by name. Seriously, watch any of the Netflix shows and you hear nothing but "that hammer dude" or "the playboy in the metal suit" or "The green monster". It's really weird.
Which is ironic, because as far as Disney is concerned, Agents of Shield exists solely to engage fans of the movies between movies. It's even get a summer season next year explicity because Disney doesn't have anything going on between Ant-Man & Wasp and Captain Marvel (which is going to feature Clark Gregg in some fashion)... and we're getting talks of an Agent Carter rival during sweeps.
Yes, but as far as Kevin Feige is concerned, none of the shows exist in the canon. If I remember right, he even said that he treats it like Agent Coulson stayed dead following Avengers. His appearance in Captain Marvel is because that movie takes place in the 90s, so it's actually a flashback in the MCU.
This is why a lot of the "tie-ins" felt rather weak, like the fact the hellicarrier Nick Fury used in Avengers 2 was refurbished in secret by Coulson's underground SHIELD, or the fact the show made mention of the Sokovia Accords a few times in season 4 and then never touched on them again. "What if we make Ghost Riders portal look like a sling ring? BRILLIANT!" The only GOOD tie-in they had was the HYDRA arc, but that was right before Kevin Feige made the split from Marvel Entertainment and tie-ins started to come down to references rather then actual story beats.
It feels more like the shows are going "What is the movie doing that we can say or take credit for without actually contradicting a plot point?" rather then a large, consensual strategy between all the different media formats.
Even the mention of Thanos in season 5 didn't really go anywhere. I mean, Graviton specifically went nuts because he wanted to stop Thanos, then Daisy beats Graviton and everyone is now having wine and reminiscing about stuff while supposedly places in the US, Europe, and Africa are getting hammered by aliens. That does not even go into the time issues. Avengers 3 really implied that a lot of the events happening did so over a small period of time, likely less then 24 hours, yet in that time since the death of Graviton and the mourning of Fitz, they were able to throw a party, engrave a plaque, and fly to Tahiti, all before half the universe evaporated (the show runners said they ended it before the snap). Does that sound like a conscious strategy between the film and tv divisions, or the shows just deciding to throw a Thanos mention so we can go "oh oh look a reference! clap calp" before pulling the blanket over us hoping we forget it was ever a thing?
This is why a lot of the "tie-ins" felt rather weak, like the fact the hellicarrier Nick Fury used in Avengers 2 was refurbished in secret by Coulson's underground SHIELD, or the fact the show made mention of the Sokovia Accords a few times in season 4 and then never touched on them again. "What if we make Ghost Riders portal look like a sling ring? BRILLIANT!" The only GOOD tie-in they had was the HYDRA arc, but that was right before Kevin Feige made the split from Marvel Entertainment and tie-ins started to come down to references rather then actual story beats.
It feels more like the shows are going "What is the movie doing that we can say or take credit for without actually contradicting a plot point?" rather then a large, consensual strategy between all the different media formats.
Even the mention of Thanos in season 5 didn't really go anywhere. I mean, Graviton specifically went nuts because he wanted to stop Thanos, then Daisy beats Graviton and everyone is now having wine and reminiscing about stuff while supposedly places in the US, Europe, and Africa are getting hammered by aliens. That does not even go into the time issues. Avengers 3 really implied that a lot of the events happening did so over a small period of time, likely less then 24 hours, yet in that time since the death of Graviton and the mourning of Fitz, they were able to throw a party, engrave a plaque, and fly to Tahiti, all before half the universe evaporated (the show runners said they ended it before the snap). Does that sound like a conscious strategy between the film and tv divisions, or the shows just deciding to throw a Thanos mention so we can go "oh oh look a reference! clap calp" before pulling the blanket over us hoping we forget it was ever a thing?
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You basically missed the big shift. During Season one most of the episodes were contained stories with only a hint of a larger narrative but it didn't really work out.
By the time Winter Soldier released, they decided to go with each season having a contained narrative, as the whole HYDRA infiltration story took root, with it even being revealed that the main character for season one, Grant Ward, was a HYDRA operative the whole time. He ended up becoming a series regular antagonist for a good long while after that.
There is really too much to go over at once, but they basically introduced Inhumans, brought in mystical elements with Ghost Rider, a Matrix like computer simulation, and even had a time travel storyline before Endgame. It's been a bit of a ride.
figmentPez
Staff member
Is Coulson now the herald of Galactus? Maybe he's the planet eater himself?
And the reason the stakes are always so high is because they basically need to give a good reason for SHIELD not showing up to save the day during the movies.
ENDGAME Spoiler
I think it's ridiculous they didn't show up for the big thing at the end of Endgame. I'm pretty sure they could have spared a few Quinnjets or something.
That's technically because the movies don't treat the TV shows like they exist. Basically the MCU is handled by Kevin Feige, who speaks directly to Disney. The television shows are handled by Jeph Loeb, who has to go through the head of Marvel, Ike Perlmutter. Kevin and Ike from what it known hate eachother, so while Jeph / Ike try to bring in more profit by framing the TV shows around the MCU movies, Kevin basically ignores the shows when it comes to the movies, much to the frustration of the TV show regulars.
As far as Kevin is concerned, Coulson died in Avengers and Shield has been disbanded since Winter Soldier.
Ike Perlmutter had been in charge of the MCU but he was notoriously cheap, misogynistic, and didn't want to approve any movies that weren't focused on a white male hero - so no Black Panther, no Captain Marvel, no Ant-Man And The Wasp, etc. Feige basically went over his head to Disney and Disney removed him from the MCU division.