A Loki Place for Spoilers

ThatNickGuy

ThatNickGuy

So, figured we could have a thread for Loki spoilers since it's gonna be a thing.

The first episode was...okay, I guess? I don't know. I enjoyed it. I like the spin with the bureaucratic TVA. I like how they handled the Infinity Stones. It's enjoyable enough that I'll keep watching, but it doesn't make me immediately what to see the next episode.

As I was watching it, I asked myself, "What major character developments has this Loki missed out on?" and I realized his mother's death was a big one and was probably his biggest turning point. And sure enough, that's exactly what they zeroed in on. Good call.

But honestly, I'm not crazy about the possible villain, at least for now, being another Loki. That's taking the "every Marvel villain is just an evil version of themselves" a little too literally. Asking for Kang would be asking for too much, of course, but still. Another Loki is disappointing.

Still, as I said, I'll keep watching for now, but I'm not as eager on future episodes as I was with Falcon & Winter Soldier or definitely not WandaVision.

EDIT: Actually, an additional thought. Why the hell was Avengers Endgame "supposed to happen" according to the TVA or the Time Keepers? Loki is honestly right there. The Avengers ran totally amok with time, even if Cap might go back and try to "fix" some of that. Thanos yanking himself and his army out of his own timestream into the present seems like a pretty big variant that shouldn't have happened?
 
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Shawn

Shawn

We have been told it’s another Loki who is the villain. But the thing is we were deliberately not shown confirmation of this. The scene after we find out that it’s a variant of Loki who is killing the agents would be the obvious time to reveal “evil” Loki. But they for some reason still keep him in shadow and do not confirm his identity.
From a narrative perspective this means there is more to this other Loki (assuming it is even him) that the show creators don’t want us to know yet.
So either…
1) it’s not really Loki.
2) There is a physical characteristic about this Loki that might identify him from a particular point in his life or a disfigurement that will have a big story impact.
 
ThatNickGuy

ThatNickGuy

Shawn said:
We have been told it’s another Loki who is the villain. But the thing is we were deliberately not shown confirmation of this. The scene after we find out that it’s a variant of Loki who is killing the agents would be the obvious time to reveal “evil” Loki. But they for some reason still keep him in shadow and do not confirm his identity.
From a narrative perspective this means there is more to this other Loki (assuming it is even him) that the show creators don’t want us to know yet.
So either..z
1) it’s not really Loki.
2) There is a physical characteristic about this Loki that might identify him from a particular point in his life or a disfigurement that will have a big story impact.
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They PROBABLY won't go this route, but they could do Lady Loki.
 
@Li3n

@Li3n

ThatNickGuy said:
But honestly, I'm not crazy about the possible villain, at least for now, being another Loki. That's taking the "every Marvel villain is just an evil version of themselves" a little too literally. Asking for Kang would be asking for too much, of course, but still. Another Loki is disappointing.
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But that's the most logical reason why they would need Loki.

If it's just some guy he has no connection to then the TVA is just randomly picking him for plot convenience.

Of course the Other Loki hopefully has a good backstory.

ThatNickGuy said:
Thanos yanking himself and his army out of his own timestream into the present seems like a pretty big variant that shouldn't have happened?
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But the variant timeline would be the one Thanos left behind, and they could just erase that one without doing anything to soon-to-be-non-existant-alt-Thanos.
 
MindDetective

MindDetective

re: Loki - as the villain. It definitely makes the most sense. Loki the protagonist is an established loser, cheat, liar, and too ambitious for his own good. He would be ineffective against most people that the TVA couldn't handle. But a villain that is just like him? They definitely could use Loki's expertise for that.

re: Lady Loki - as the villain. My initial thought was that Protagonist Loki will turn into villain Loki at the end of the series. But I like female Loki as the villain MUCH better. There has been some press confirming Loki's gender fluidity, so it is not out of the realm of possibility!

re: Endgame - Thanos and his crew were snapped out of existence by Tony Stark, so the TVA did not need to intervene for that reason. And the repercussions of that fight might be important for the Sacred Timeline, so intervening could arguably make things worse if, let's say mutants don't come into existence or the Fantastic Four doesn't happen as a result.
 
Shawn

Shawn

I do not believe it will be a female Loki. At least not at this time.
They have referred to the killer variant as a "he".
 
bhamv3

bhamv3

Aww, I wanted to speculate possible actresses for female Loki. The first candidate that came to mind was Sarah Silverman.

EDIT: Cause Matt Damon has played Loki, and... well...
 
General Specific

General Specific

Watched an easter egg video by ScreenCrush and he pointed out that in the comics the Time Keepers were brought into existence by a being at the end of their timeline who went back in time to the beginning to specifically create them. So, they are protecting the timeline that leads to their own creation, not necessarily what is the "best" timeline.

This may be true for the show as well. All of the TVA has a vested interest in ensuring this timeline exists because, without it, they don't.

"Evil" Loki may be fighting them in order to create a new timeline that doesn't have the Time Keepers or TVA to interfere with their plans. I use "they" there because we don't know if the Evil Loki is male or female and there was a shot when flipping through Main Loki's file that listed his gender as "fluid."

I honestly think that the Evil Loki is Lady Loki as otherwise, they likely would have shown us his face during the attack on the TVA Agents at the end to hammer home that this is an alternate version of Loki. Not showing us anything about the character means, to me, that there is some key detail that would be given away by appearance alone. Either that means a gender swap as has been speculated about since images of a woman in a very Loki-ish costume surfaced during filming or a different character entirely that appears to be emulating Loki. This might make the show similar to Silence of the Lambs, if true.
 
ScytheRexx

ScytheRexx

Since this is a spoiler thread (leak)
it's already been leaked that the villain is Lady Loki. She is played by Sophia Di Martino. The reason they think it's a "He" is because everyone that has actually come into contact with this Variant Loki has been killed, and they only know it's Loki through detective work (the way the victims were stabbed, the kids profiling, likely many more clues from past investigations, etc)
 
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Dave

Dave

Staff member
Well there's spoilers for things that are in the show and then there's leaked spoilers for things to come that people like myself knew nothing about.
 
Shawn

Shawn

The flow of time in the MCU is very confusing.

Smart Hulk's explanation of time flow and how time travel doesn't actually change your future suggests the existence of branches occurring. But the TVA insists there is only a single timeline and they clip those branches as they happen.
In a way this kind of makes sense. Regardless of what the Avengers did their changing of the future would be corrected by the TVA. But this goes against what was told to them by the Supreme Sorceress who insisted that their branch reality would not go unprotected without the Infinity Stones and that they must be returned. But with the TVA around there would be absolutely no need to return the stones at all because that branch would be "pruned" anyway.
And then there is the matter of Steve being allowed to stay in the past after returning the stones. Apparently the TVA doesn't have a concern with heroes breaking the rules, but on villains they put their foot down.
 
Ravenpoe

Ravenpoe

Shawn said:
And then there is the matter of Steve being allowed to stay in the past after returning the stones. Apparently the TVA doesn't have a concern with heroes breaking the rules, but on villains they put their foot down.
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As quoted by the judge, that was "supposed to happen"
 
Shawn

Shawn

Ravenpoe said:
As quoted by the judge, that was "supposed to happen"
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Which, kinda sucks a bit, because it implies that no one has a choice and there is no fight that is won simply because someone was better than someone else. It just means that any fight they didn't win was simply erased from time.
 
ScytheRexx

ScytheRexx

That is the thing about time. Technically, the TVA may have not existed until recently. Who can say? By the nature of being able to travel through time they can take part in any event at any point, so were they created thousands of years ago? Millions? Were they created in the past? The future? WHO KNOWS!

My theory? The Avengers, unintentionally, created the TVA. Much like the comics, the Time Keepers were not created at the start of the Universe, but at the end of it. The stuff that the Avengers did in Endgame caused a rupture in time that created all the errant timelines that made up the multiverse, and those timelines came into conflict at some future date, not in the past. Out of this conflict the Time Keepers are born far into the future, and decide to consolidate all the timelines into a single one they deem to be the best one, aka the Sacred Timeline. They just happened to choose the one that the MCU has taken place in. In a way, it's a "cheat" because that means the TVA wouldn't, TECHNICALLY, be watching over what the Avengers did in Endgame and helping them, because that stuff already happened, in a way, to them, and they just are making sure it continues to happen as it did before they came to "exist". Does your head hurt yet?

By the end, Loki is going to do something that causes the whole machine to crumble and likely the TVA is going to be either destroyed or an event changed that caused them to never to come exist in the first place, like stopping the birth of the Time Keepers. This would, in essence, allow all those variant timelines to be reborn again, as the lack of TVA means they never went back in time to erase them in the first place. Now I bet your head hurts.
 
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klew

klew

Wonder if the show might hint that any of Dr Strange's 14 million+ outcomes to beat Thanos had any interference from the TVA, or would those not technically be variant timelines? Did the time stone actually allow Dr Strange to live through all those timelines, or act more as a remote viewing device?
 
Ravenpoe

Ravenpoe

Shawn said:
Which, kinda sucks a bit, because it implies that no one has a choice and there is no fight that is won simply because someone was better than someone else. It just means that any fight they didn't win was simply erased from time.
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That's actually one of the things I really like about this series, it's leaning into the existential crisis of determinism that should crop up any time that time travel is involved.
 
Shawn

Shawn

On a completely different note: I want to see that awesome "elevator" clothing destroying robot again.
 
ScytheRexx

ScytheRexx

The way its face distorts like an old TV was a great touch. You can see it really well in how the smile kind of creeps in.
 
figmentPez

figmentPez

Staff member
What if the Variant Loki isn't an MCU Loki at all, but a remnant from the multiversal war that the TVA put an end to?
 
Tiger Tsang

Tiger Tsang

Fun Size said:
Am I the only one who saw the stained glass window and thought they were immediately trolling about Mephisto?
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Initially, yes or somesuch, but then someone pointed out Loki's old helmet.

*edit*
Heh, at this point, Mephisto has been teased/bandied about in the MCU fandom so much, I actually doubt, besides a reference, he'll ever make an appearance.
 
ScytheRexx

ScytheRexx

Tiger Tsang said:
Heh, at this point, Mephisto has been teased/bandied about in the MCU fandom so much, I actually doubt, besides a reference, he'll ever make an appearance.
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If I am being honest, it feels like Marvel Studios has been attempting to avoid overt theocratic tones in the MCU. Mephisto is basically Marvel's "Satan", and so I don't see them actually bringing him in. Even the stuff with Witches we saw in Wandavision seemed more tied to the Sorcerers and Doctor Strange, rather then actual Christian occultism.
 
@Li3n

@Li3n

ScytheRexx said:
Mephisto is basically Marvel's "Satan", and so I don't see them actually bringing him in.
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Actually Marvel's "Satan" is whoever is Daemon and Satana's father at this time.

Anyone know if it's still Marduk Kurios ?

...

And, interestingly enough, Mephisto was actually a Silver Surfer villain first: https://marvel.fandom.com/wiki/Silver_Surfer_Vol_1_3

He only later got nominated as the hell lord that gave Ghost Rider his powers in order to make it not be the Christian Satan.
 
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