Build your own computer guide

GasBandit

GasBandit

Staff member
Lenovo frequently has good performance but build quality issues. I use a lenovo laptop for work that I frequently have to thump with my fingertips with a worrying amount of force to get sound to start coming out of the right hand speaker again.

My last 3 personal laptops have all been Asus and I have really had good luck with them.

Anybody who buys an Acer needs to be put on a suicide watch list.
 
@Li3n

@Li3n

PatrThom said:
and neither of them show the interior view to make any guesses as to ease of later expansion.
Click to expand...


The ASUS cases are all teh same, and this seems to be the pic they used for all of them.

But i'm starting to think it's better if i just get back into learning about the components again, and just building something myself... and just hunt for more RAM next Black Friday, and a new video-card the BF after that...

Not a very varied selection on sales for a full desktop...
 
@Li3n

@Li3n

@Li3n said:
Maybe not the best place to put some pre-builds, but what do you guys think of these:

www.emag.ro

Sistem Gaming Acer Nitro N50-640 cu procesor Intel® Core™ i5-12400F pana la 4.40 GHz, Alder Lake, 16GB, 1TB SSD, GeForce RTX 3060 12GB GDDR6, No OS - eMAG.ro

Cumpara Sistem Gaming Acer Nitro N50-640 cu procesor Intel® Core™ i5-12400F pana la 4.40 GHz, Alder Lake, 16GB, 1TB SSD, GeForce RTX 3060 12GB GDDR6, No OS de la eMAG! Ai libertatea sa platesti in rate, Beneficiezi de promotiile zilei, deschiderea coletului la livrare, easybox, retur gratuit in...
www.emag.ro www.emag.ro

www.emag.ro

Sistem Gaming Lenovo IdeaCentre 5 17IAB7 cu procesor Intel® Core™ i5-12400F pana la 4.40 GHz, 16GB UDIMM DDR4-3200, 1TB SSD M.2 2280 PCIe 4.0x4 NVMe, NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3060 Ti 8GB GDDR6, No OS - eMAG.ro

Cumpara Sistem Gaming Lenovo IdeaCentre 5 17IAB7 cu procesor Intel® Core™ i5-12400F pana la 4.40 GHz, 16GB UDIMM DDR4-3200, 1TB SSD M.2 2280 PCIe 4.0x4 NVMe, NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3060 Ti 8GB GDDR6, No OS de la eMAG! Ai libertatea sa platesti in rate, Beneficiezi de promotiile zilei, deschiderea...
www.emag.ro www.emag.ro

www.emag.ro

Sistem Gaming Lenovo IdeaCentre 5 17IAB7 cu procesor Intel® Core™ i7-12700F pana la 4.90 GHz, Alder Lake, 32GB DDR4, 1TB SSD M.2 2280 PCIe, NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3060 Ti 8GB GDDR6, No OS - eMAG.ro

Cumpara Sistem Gaming Lenovo IdeaCentre 5 17IAB7 cu procesor Intel® Core™ i7-12700F pana la 4.90 GHz, Alder Lake, 32GB DDR4, 1TB SSD M.2 2280 PCIe, NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3060 Ti 8GB GDDR6, No OS de la eMAG! Ai libertatea sa platesti in rate, Beneficiezi de promotiile zilei, deschiderea coletului la...
www.emag.ro www.emag.ro

www.emag.ro

Sistem Desktop PC Gaming ASUS G10DK cu procesor AMD Ryzen™ 7 5800X pana la 4.70GHz, 16GB DDR4, 512GB SSD NVMe™ + 1TB HDD, NVIDIA® GeForce RTX™ 3060 12GB GDDR6, No OS - eMAG.ro

Cumpara Sistem Desktop PC Gaming ASUS G10DK cu procesor AMD Ryzen™ 7 5800X pana la 4.70GHz, 16GB DDR4, 512GB SSD NVMe™ + 1TB HDD, NVIDIA® GeForce RTX™ 3060 12GB GDDR6, No OS de la eMAG! Ai libertatea sa platesti in rate, Beneficiezi de promotiile zilei, deschiderea coletului la livrare, easybox...
www.emag.ro www.emag.ro

www.emag.ro

Sistem Desktop PC Gaming ASUS G10DK cu procesor AMD Ryzen™ 7 5800X pana la 4.70GHz, 16GB DDR4, 512GB SSD NVMe™ + 1TB HDD, NVIDIA® GeForce RTX™ 3060 Ti 8GB GDDR6, No OS - eMAG.ro

Cumpara Sistem Desktop PC Gaming ASUS G10DK cu procesor AMD Ryzen™ 7 5800X pana la 4.70GHz, 16GB DDR4, 512GB SSD NVMe™ + 1TB HDD, NVIDIA® GeForce RTX™ 3060 Ti 8GB GDDR6, No OS de la eMAG! Ai libertatea sa platesti in rate, Beneficiezi de promotiile zilei, deschiderea coletului la livrare...
www.emag.ro www.emag.ro

www.emag.ro

Sistem Gaming ASUS ROG Strix G10DK cu procesor AMD Ryzen™ 7 5800X pana la 4.70 GHz, 16GB, 512GB M.2 NVMe™ PCIe® 3.0 SSD, NVIDIA® GeForce® GTX1660TI 6GB DDR6, No OS - eMAG.ro

Cumpara Sistem Gaming ASUS ROG Strix G10DK cu procesor AMD Ryzen™ 7 5800X pana la 4.70 GHz, 16GB, 512GB M.2 NVMe™ PCIe® 3.0 SSD, NVIDIA® GeForce® GTX1660TI 6GB DDR6, No OS de la eMAG! Ai libertatea sa platesti in rate, Beneficiezi de promotiile zilei, deschiderea coletului la livrare, easybox...
www.emag.ro www.emag.ro

I i got about 3 hours before Black Friday ends.
Click to expand...
Well, well, well... would you look at that, most of these are still on sale for teh same prices... except the last one, which is 450 lei more, which is still less expensive then the crossed out price was yesterday...
 
PatrThom

PatrThom

Agreed. Which is why I have been recommending 1660 or better. I assume the 1650's popularity is due more to its price and presence in laptops (and because it comes in models that don't require aux PCIe connectors) than its actual gaming performance.
I'm looking forward to the slew of Radeon 7k reviews which should be coming out tomorrow or at least by Monday before I start making decisions on price/performance/features.

--Patrick
 
PatrThom

PatrThom

Reviews are coming in. As of launch*, the 7900XTX/7900XT cards are performing close to the level of a 4080/3090Ti unless you care about raytracing, in which case the NVIDIA cards beat all comers.
So if you think you will be GPU shopping this holiday season, the NVIDIA 40x0 cards are unquestionably the best performers (and also happen to carry the highest prices).
Not counting raytracing performance, the hierarchy looks something like this:
4090
4080
7900XTX
3090Ti
7900XT
(3080 (non-Ti))
(3070)
(3060)
A770

Are you going to use the raytracing features? Suck it up and get one of the NVIDIA cards (4090/4080). You have no other choice right now.
Do you want to save money? Get the 7900XTX. The XT is $100 cheaper than the XTX but offers $120 less performance so the XTX is still technically the best $<->performance deal.
Do you like being an alpha tester? Get the A770. None of the other Intel cards are worth getting for gaming purposes with the possible exception of using one as an AV1 encode/decode coprocessor while streaming/recording.

ONE note: The AMD cards have USB-C and also support the newer Display Port 2.1 standard, while the NVIDIA cards only support up to DP1.4a, which means that technically the AMD cards can support faster frame rates at higher resolutions (4K/8K), but the only real benefit I can see for this at this time is that you would be able to keep using them (i.e., able to connect to a wider variety of future monitors) longer than NVIDIA's 40x0 cards, though whether you would've thrown them away by then anyway due to their slower performance is another story.

--Patrick
*future drivers may change things, though it's debatable by exactly how much.
 
GasBandit

GasBandit

Staff member
It's still bringing bile into my throat to try to conceive of a $1000 card being the best price for performance, when my $200 1060 3 gig is only now starting to show its age.
 
GasBandit

GasBandit

Staff member
Frank said:
How has Darktide been running on your PC? I've read some horror stories of performance.
Click to expand...
I had to turn down a lot of the graphics settings. This is the specific title I was thinking of when I wrote "only now showing its age."

I've started running it in 720p to keep the framerate near 60, and disabled the usual suspects (ambient occlusion, volumetric fog, etc) but it's still very playable. I could still play 1080p if I was willing to put up with 30 fps, which I'm not.

It actually runs better on my steam deck (which, granted, is also at 720p).

My buddies who have 2070s or higher are doing fine at 1080p with the same settings, though.
 
PatrThom

PatrThom

GasBandit said:
a $1000 card being the best price for performance
Click to expand...
My post was more about showing the hierarchy of "What's currently available as new" rather than finding the overall fps-per-money-unit price/performance leader, which is why I put most of the 30-series in parentheses. Those lower-end 30-series cards are mainly in the list to show just how far down the scale the A770 lands.

--Patrick
 
Frank

Frank

GasBandit said:
I had to turn down a lot of the graphics settings. This is the specific title I was thinking of when I wrote "only now showing its age."

I've started running it in 720p to keep the framerate near 60, and disabled the usual suspects (ambient occlusion, volumetric fog, etc) but it's still very playable. I could still play 1080p if I was willing to put up with 30 fps, which I'm not.

It actually runs better on my steam deck (which, granted, is also at 720p).

My buddies who have 2070s or higher are doing fine at 1080p with the same settings, though.
Click to expand...
Good to know it's mostly people wanting their 4K 60 fps pipedream.

I'm thinking I'm good with 1080p for now. I need to upgrade the rest of my PC before I even think about flipping out my 2080 RTX.
 
GasBandit

GasBandit

Staff member
Frank said:
I'm thinking I'm good with 1080p for now. I need to upgrade the rest of my PC before I even think about flipping out my 2080 RTX.
Click to expand...
Me too. My motherboard can't do much better than a 10 series, usefully. I'm actually kinda thinking my Steam Deck is my next gaming PC. It works in USB docks and TBH, as I age, my eyes don't give a shit about 4k any more.
 
PatrThom

PatrThom

GasBandit said:
as I age, my eyes don't give a shit about 4k any more.
Click to expand...
Its more about how much of your visual field you need to have filled with the display. The larger the screen, the higher the resolution has to be to keep it looking smooth. This is why there are getting to be so many curved monitors now, because that way the curvature brings the R and L edges of the screen more into your visual arc without having to move farther back.
optimal-viewing-distance-television-graph-size.png

source

I feel like the above graph is based more on someone's strong opinion than actual optical science, but it's probably more about maintaining that "optimal" 40° angle from wherever you happen to sit.

--Patrick
 
PatrThom

PatrThom

Final answer--The only cards worth getting (at this time) from each manufacturer are: RTX 4080 (NVIDIA), RX 7900 XTX (AMD), and A770 (Intel).
The overall "Just tell me which card to get!" winner for gaming is the RTX 4080, whose only "defect" is that its MSRP is currently ~$200 possibly as much as $400 too high.
Driver optimizations may eventually bring the 7900 XTX on par with the 4080, but by then some kind of 4800 Ti/Super variant may be available. Yes I know the 7900 XTX outperforms the 4080 in many games, but it does so at noticeably higher power consumption and heat, and the 4080 absolutely crushes everything AMD has to offer once ray-tracing and/or AI are involved.

The 4090 is still the top of the heap, but between its higher price and power draw, you might be better off with the second-best 4080 unless you really NEED its extra oomph.

--Patrick
 
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PatrThom

PatrThom

A somewhat update to the above. The best value GPU for new builds right now is the 6700 XT, or possibly one of the 6800/6800XT if you can find one at a deep enough discount.
GasBandit said:
But [the motherboard] now has everything else at its limit. To upgrade further, I'd have to ditch the ol' Asus Z87-K. Which would mean new everything else. And given the state of Windows, I still think the right move is my next gaming PC will just be my Steam Deck on a dock.
Click to expand...
Why Upgrading A Gaming PC Right Now Is Almost Pointless (And Expensive!)
...profit margins are up, and both AMD and Nvidia are earning more per unit. While inflation and manufacturing costs have increased, both companies have offset this by charging you more while offering less, a fact worth pondering.
[...]
In essence, if you were planning to upgrade from a GPU that's now a generation or two old for roughly the same price, you would have been better off doing so 1-2 years ago, or instead continue to wait for another year or two. In almost every scenario upgrading right now, at the same price point you targeted previously, is almost pointless and if you really want to receive an upgrade, it's going to be a lot more expensive.
Click to expand...
--Patrick
 
Bubble181

Bubble181

But hasn't "wait 'till prices come down" and "wait with upgrading" been the advice for the past 4-5 years? Either supply is low so prices are high/parts are unavailable, or delivery is spotty, or there's a new version coming soon, or.....
 
GasBandit

GasBandit

Staff member
Bubble181 said:
But hasn't "wait 'till prices come down" and "wait with upgrading" been the advice for the past 4-5 years? Either supply is low so prices are high/parts are unavailable, or delivery is spotty, or there's a new version coming soon, or.....
Click to expand...
This time it's "the new stuff isn't better enough than the previous stuff to justify spending the money."
 
PatrThom

PatrThom

Bubble181 said:
But hasn't "wait 'till prices come down" and "wait with upgrading" been the advice for the past 4-5 years?
Click to expand...
Normally this is the usual Moore's Law advice that says there's always something better just around the corner. THIS time, the advice to wait is because manufacturers have priced the current generation hardware right about the same as last generation hardware, performance-wise. So the brand new card that costs $600 unfortunately only performs maybe 10% better than the last generation card which is currently selling for $550, meaning that the performance you get per unit of currency is roughly identical. So these days the best deal is that you either buy a higher-tier card from 2-3 years ago that has come down in price, or you wait another 2 years to see what late 2024 will bring, because except for certain specific use cases (power consumption, specific workloads), buying a current generation card nets you little to no additional performance per dollar.

--Patrick
 
PatrThom

PatrThom

Bubble181 said:
OK, so it's more aimed only at those who *already* have a decent rig.
Click to expand...
Yes, which is why the article title says "upgrading" instead of "building."

It's not a great time for a brand NEW build, but it's technically not a bad time, either. CPU tech is a little unfocused and GPUs are just plain dumb, but RAM, SSDs/HDDs, HSFs, cases, and even most MLBs are decent for the time being. Just be aware that your new build will probably reuse your previous GPU unless it is so hopelessly outdated that it MUST be replaced, in which case you're better off buying last-gen and waiting a year or two.

We'll see what PCIe and USB are up to by then, since PCIe v6 is supposed to start appearing in products towards the end of this year.

--Patrick
 
@Li3n

@Li3n

So i got myself a nice mid Steam Deck on the last sale... and it turns out i HATE playing D4 and Solasta on a controller, and my WiFi seems to be unreliable in the room i got the PC in (concrete commie buildings tend to do that)

And i was wondering, anyone know if a regular USB Hub will work with it, something like this:

https://altex.ro/hub-usb-type-c-pro...t-hdmi-display-port-sd-gri/cpd/HUBAPEXHUBMST/

www.emag.ro

Hub USB 12 in 1 NEX TECH® USB-C 4K HDMI, 1000Mbps, USB 3.0, SD, USB 2.0, RJ45, Adaptor Multiport, Incarcare PD 100W, 5 Gbps, VGA, Aluminiu, Card Reader, Gri - eMAG.ro

Cumpara Hub USB 12 in 1 NEX TECH® USB-C 4K HDMI, 1000Mbps, USB 3.0, SD, USB 2.0, RJ45, Adaptor Multiport, Incarcare PD 100W, 5 Gbps, VGA, Aluminiu, Card Reader, Gri de la eMAG! Ai libertatea sa platesti in rate, beneficiezi de promotiile zilei, deschiderea coletului la livrare, easybox, retur...
www.emag.ro www.emag.ro

www.emag.ro

Docking Station Baseus Metal Gleam, conectare PC USB Type-C, 8 in 1, Gri - eMAG.ro

Cumpara Docking Station Baseus Metal Gleam, conectare PC USB Type-C, 8 in 1, Gri de la eMAG! Ai libertatea sa platesti in rate, beneficiezi de promotiile zilei, deschiderea coletului la livrare, easybox, retur gratuit in 30 de zile si Instant Money Back.
www.emag.ro www.emag.ro

Or maybe even something way cheaper (exchange rate is about 4,5 / 1 USD):

www.emag.ro

Hub Adaptor Type-C Pro Zenkabeat 8-1, 2 X USB 3.0, HDMI 4K, Card Reader TF + SD, VGA, HDMI, Type C, 3.5 MM Audio 1 X Power Delivery Port 87W, Ultra Slim, Gri - eMAG.ro

Cumpara Hub Adaptor Type-C Pro Zenkabeat 8-1, 2 X USB 3.0, HDMI 4K, Card Reader TF + SD, VGA, HDMI, Type C, 3.5 MM Audio 1 X Power Delivery Port 87W, Ultra Slim, Gri de la eMAG! Ai libertatea sa platesti in rate, beneficiezi de promotiile zilei, deschiderea coletului la livrare, easybox, retur...
www.emag.ro www.emag.ro

https://www.emag.ro/hub-adaptor-8-i...b-c-100w-gri-negru-pgkzw020m162/pd/DZTCPFMBM/

https://altex.ro/hub-usb-type-c-7in...-0-hdmi-sd-microsd-negru/cpd/HUBPRIMEHUBLITE/

Too bad my monitor (Dell P2314H) only has VGA and DisplayPort (and DVI, but that seems dead), HDMI would have worked on the TV too, but i can just stream to it with the app.

Or should i just get a DP adapter and bluetooth k&m ?
 
GasBandit

GasBandit

Staff member
I don't know if those specific ones will work on it, but I have a generic $35 USB-C laptop dock/hub (made by Falwedi) for work and it works just fine on that. I'd say it's worth trying.
 
@Li3n

@Li3n

PatrThom said:
FWIW, that monitor's DVI is DVI-D, which means it will NOT work with an analog DVI-I/DVI-A source (like from a VGA adapter).

--Patrick
Click to expand...
Oh, no, i mean the tech, since i don't see any hubs with it.

I'm actually using the DVI right now while typing this.



GasBandit said:
I don't know if those specific ones will work on it, but I have a generic $35 USB-C laptop dock/hub (made by Falwedi) for work and it works just fine on that. I'd say it's worth trying.
Click to expand...
Is there a possibility of it not working with some ? What should i look for ?
 
GasBandit

GasBandit

Staff member
@Li3n said:
Is there a possibility of it not working with some ? What should i look for ?
Click to expand...
The sad fact is right now video over USB-C is still very much the wild west. You have competing signal types with no standard (DP-over-USB-C and Thunderbolt for example), vague port labeling and incomplete device documentation so it's hard to know without physical trial and error if a USB-C port even supports video, and if so, which, and of course like every tech sector, the market is flooded with chinese knockoff gear that may or may not work for a number of reasons.

The good news is, at least the Steam Deck itself takes a lot of the uncertainty out. I've tested it both on a $35 USB-C dock and a $400 thunderbolt dock, and it worked on both. This leads me to believe it uses USB-C video tech, because Thunderbolt will support USB-C but USB-C won't necessarily support Thunderbolt. And Falwedi, the manufacturer of the dock I use at home, is the VERY quintessence of chinese knockoff tech.

So if the steam deck works on that, it'll probably (emphasis on PROBABLY) work on anything. But I can't say for certain without physical testing in person. So were I in your shoes, I would try the cheapest one to minimize wallet risk.
 
@Li3n

@Li3n

Well, i went and got myself one of these, since the WiFi seems to be working fin in the PC room, and i had a really old USB to multiple USB hub i could plug in it, and it works just fine with K&M and the VGA hooked to the monitor. Not bad for around 12$...
 
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