The G20 Protests.

[Chazwozel]

Wow, that's all I can say, Chaz.

Oh you don't like that I support the bludgeoning of morons?[/QUOTE]
I don't like that you think you can choose who the morons are. I'm sure plenty of people would bludgeon you given the chance.[/QUOTE]

They could try...

---------- Post added at 07:17 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:10 PM ----------

Not really, I'm actually a pretty nice, easy going guy to begin with, and I'm not terribly afraid of the angst ridden douchebags who take great offense to what I say around here.

They could try...

Then again, I don't stop traffic on a busy bridge, throw rocks at local business, or shut down main streets with idiotic environmentalist rants at a conference that addresses those very issues. Yes, Greenpeace was very, very constructive at getting their point across to world leaders.

 

[Krisken]

They could try...

---------- Post added at 07:17 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:10 PM ----------

Not really, I'm actually a pretty nice, easy going guy to begin with, and I'm not terribly afraid of the angst ridden douchebags who take great offense to what I say around here.

They could try...

Then again, I don't stop traffic on a busy bridge, throw rocks at local business, or shut down main streets with idiotic environmentalist rants at a conference that addresses those very issues. Yes, Greenpeace was very, very constructive at getting their point across to world leaders.

I was more trying to say that calling someone a moron is kinda subjective, not make a statement about you and what you think.

 

[Chazwozel]

They could try...

---------- Post added at 07:17 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:10 PM ----------

Not really, I'm actually a pretty nice, easy going guy to begin with, and I'm not terribly afraid of the angst ridden douchebags who take great offense to what I say around here.

They could try...

Then again, I don't stop traffic on a busy bridge, throw rocks at local business, or shut down main streets with idiotic environmentalist rants at a conference that addresses those very issues. Yes, Greenpeace was very, very constructive at getting their point across to world leaders.

I was more trying to say that calling someone a moron is kinda subjective, not make a statement about you and what you think.[/QUOTE]


I think many people agree that Greenpeace and PETA extremists are morons.

 

[ThatGrinningIdiot!]

I just LOOOOVE the tags on this one.

Why do people still think protesting works?

 

[SpecialKO]

I just LOOOOVE the tags on this one.

Why do people still think protesting works?

They don't. They've just come to the very reasonable conclusion that if Representatives don't even read bills, there's no way that they're gonna read those letters.

 

[Adam]

Haha, that chick on the bike got shellacked a good one. Next time, don't throw your bike at the cops. Ah well, I guess she'll have to call in sick tomorrow at Lentils 'r Us.

 

[Twitch]

I was shown a number of these videos by my left wing protest happy friend last night. I can't watch these right now but if they're at all the same the arrests are edited to not show the offender. I've been under the effects of pepper spray and tear gas and people that bitch and moan about it needs to harden the fuck up. It's a perfectly acceptable method of crowd control, if you've never have it happen to you then at least pepper spray yourself and then see how much it sucks the next day. It won't.

 

[Le Quack]

They could try...

---------- Post added at 07:17 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:10 PM ----------

Not really, I'm actually a pretty nice, easy going guy to begin with, and I'm not terribly afraid of the angst ridden douchebags who take great offense to what I say around here.

They could try...

Then again, I don't stop traffic on a busy bridge, throw rocks at local business, or shut down main streets with idiotic environmentalist rants at a conference that addresses those very issues. Yes, Greenpeace was very, very constructive at getting their point across to world leaders.

I was more trying to say that calling someone a moron is kinda subjective, not make a statement about you and what you think.[/QUOTE]


I think many people agree that Greenpeace and PETA extremists are morons.[/QUOTE]

The thing is, there were only 20 protestors. The rest were college students standing around ON THEIR CAMPUS watching these guys. The police totally abused their power in this situation. Its not whether the protesting was right or not, but the fact that they abused the power that THE PEOPLE gave them.

I don't even agree with what they were protesting, but fuck the police for their itchy fingers.

 

[Le Quack]

I found a video of the police in disguise at the protests.

 

[Twitch]

That is some scary shit, what the fuck?

This would so not be able to happen here, even if they had a 'good reason' to act.
There are better ways.

Oh, hello there I didn't see this comment. What are those ways?
In before shoot them all.

 

[AshburnerX]

I found a video of the police in disguise at the protests.

They could have been people acting, but it's most likely the real deal. It's funny they didn't try to deny who they were when they were confronted though. I'm surprised they didn't crack and back down.

 

[Chazwozel]

I found a video of the police in disguise at the protests.

Haha, he's wearing a Penn State hat in Pittsburgh... That's a good way to get singled out. Why were they chanting, 'fuck the police'? Because it's cool to hate on cops when they're not helping your ass?

 

[AshburnerX]

I found a video of the police in disguise at the protests.

Haha, he's wearing a Penn State hat in Pittsburgh... That's a good way to get singled out. Why were they chanting, 'fuck the police'? Because it's cool to hate on cops when they're not helping your ass?[/QUOTE]

No... but it IS cool to hate on the police when they are willfully subverting the First Amendment in an attempt to control a situation. As I've already said, the Police in this country have a well documented history (Mainly 50's-70's) of planting people and having them start trouble in crowds (or egg them on from the inside, including suggesting illegal acts) in an attempt to allow them to disperse said crowd or arrest key figures in it. It just doesn't work as well as it used to because people are aware it's happening now.

 

[HoboNinja]

I found a video of the police in disguise at the protests.

Haha, he's wearing a Penn State hat in Pittsburgh... That's a good way to get singled out. Why were they chanting, 'fuck the police'? Because it's cool to hate on cops when they're not helping your ass?[/quote]

No... but it IS cool to hate on the police when they are willfully subverting the First Amendment in an attempt to control a situation. As I've already said, the Police in this country have a well documented history (Mainly 50's-70's) of planting people and having them start trouble in crowds (or egg them on from the inside, including suggesting illegal acts) in an attempt to allow them to disperse said crowd or arrest key figures in it. It just doesn't work as well as it used to because people are aware it's happening now.[/QUOTE]

Umm did you watch that video? They weren't doing anything to incite violence, I think they were there to protect and make sure the protesters didn't get out of hand.

They say they were mocking their first amendment right by being there, no they were there protecting the fucking idiots protesting and the general public from the protesters if they got out of hand.

Oh and to the dumb bitch that asked "What if we dressed up like police"? Well you would get arrested for impersonating an officer.

 

[Dave]

Yeah, I didn't see them doing anything wrong either.

 

[AshburnerX]

Umm did you watch that video? They weren't doing anything to incite violence, I think they were there to protect and make sure the protesters didn't get out of hand.

They say they were mocking their first amendment right by being there, no they were there protecting the fucking idiots protesting and the general public from the protesters if they got out of hand.

Oh and to the dumb bitch that asked "What if we dressed up like police"? Well you would get arrested for impersonating an officer.

I understand the need for the police to keep order, but when your out in full head busting fascist gear and sending undercover men into the crowd, is it really surprising that the crowd turns on you? It's incredibly hard not to see this sort of thing and not feel like your trying to be suppressed and marginalized by your own government. The crowd's reaction was wrong, but the were provoked by the attitude and actions of the police in this situation, not the other way around.

 

[Chippy]

Fascist gear? Really?

REALLY?

 

[AshburnerX]

Fascist gear? Really?

REALLY?

You can't deny that the image of cops in full riot gear, with shields and batons, whiling moving in formation... slowly approaching an unarmed crowd doesn't stir up images of repression and government crackdown. If this had happened in China, we wouldn't even be arguing.

 

[Krisken]

I can see this one both ways. On the one hand, yeah, they didn't do anything to cause the animosity of that crowd. I think the swearing at the police slogan is incredibly counter productive. However, when the video starts out the one man says "he broke the flash on my camera", indicating that the undercover officer pushed the camera down and broke the flash. One of the undercover officers even says "Lets not make this too much fun. I'm tired and getting old." That doesn't sound like "to serve and protect" to me.

I think it's a shame that a few bad apples are allowed into the police force. It's a group that is meant to serve the community, and it's an incredibly taxing job that requires an insane amount of patience. It does attract a certain seedy element, unfortunately, and those who are looking to use that power to bully others is a side effect to the power given.

I know that kind of behavior isn't encouraged, but I do think that people would have an easier time trusting and supporting their police force if the kind of behavior that exhibits an abuse of authority was properly reprimanded.

 

[crono1224]

Fascist gear? Really?

REALLY?

You can't deny that the image of cops in full riot gear, with shields and batons, whiling moving in formation... slowly approaching an unarmed crowd doesn't stir up images of repression and government crackdown. If this had happened in China, we wouldn't even be arguing.[/QUOTE]

They must have forgotten to bring their flowers and fans to break up the crowd.

They are going to be prepared for the worst, crowds 'can' turn ugly fast and its easier to acquire weapons(rocks etc) than armor.

 

[SpecialKO]

They are going to be prepared for the worst, crowds 'can' turn ugly fast and its easier to acquire weapons(rocks etc) than armor.

Yeah, there's no way that a peaceful crowd of protesters exercising their 1st Amendment rights could turn ugly upon being forced away by lockstep-marching police in riot gear.

No way at all. rly:

 

[SeraRelm]

Wait... are people being sarcastic in here?!

 

[Chazwozel]

They are going to be prepared for the worst, crowds 'can' turn ugly fast and its easier to acquire weapons(rocks etc) than armor.

Yeah, there's no way that a peaceful crowd of protesters exercising their 1st Amendment rights could turn ugly upon being forced away by lockstep-marching police in riot gear.

No way at all. rly:[/QUOTE]

Government may regulate the time, place, and manner—but not content—of expression.

In other words, you're not allowed to just show up in a random place without the permits to do so and stand around chanting slogans.

 

[Krisken]

They are going to be prepared for the worst, crowds 'can' turn ugly fast and its easier to acquire weapons(rocks etc) than armor.

Yeah, there's no way that a peaceful crowd of protesters exercising their 1st Amendment rights could turn ugly upon being forced away by lockstep-marching police in riot gear.

No way at all. rly:[/quote]

Government may regulate the time, place, and manner—but not content—of expression.

In other words, you're not allowed to just show up in a random place without the permits to do so and stand around chanting slogans.[/QUOTE]
But it's made of win!

 

[Espy]

That is still the most awesome thing I have ever seen.

 

[Rob King]

They are going to be prepared for the worst, crowds 'can' turn ugly fast and its easier to acquire weapons(rocks etc) than armor.

Yeah, there's no way that a peaceful crowd of protesters exercising their 1st Amendment rights could turn ugly upon being forced away by lockstep-marching police in riot gear.

No way at all. rly:[/QUOTE]

It's a catch 22.

Police in riot gear will upset the hippies but possibly ensure that the protest is controllable, but if they showed up without riot gear there would be a whole lot more trouble if things got rough.

I say stick with the riot gear. You can call it fascist if you like, Mr Fawkes.

 

[Krisken]

They are going to be prepared for the worst, crowds 'can' turn ugly fast and its easier to acquire weapons(rocks etc) than armor.

Yeah, there's no way that a peaceful crowd of protesters exercising their 1st Amendment rights could turn ugly upon being forced away by lockstep-marching police in riot gear.

No way at all. rly:[/quote]

It's a catch 22.

Police in riot gear will upset the hippies but possibly ensure that the protest is controllable, but if they showed up without riot gear there would be a whole lot more trouble if things got rough.

I say stick with the riot gear. You can call it fascist if you like, Mr Fawkes.[/QUOTE]
Hippies aren't the only ones who protest. If you don't like colorful, biased language, you should at least try avoiding it yourself.

 

[SpecialKO]

They are going to be prepared for the worst, crowds 'can' turn ugly fast and its easier to acquire weapons(rocks etc) than armor.

Yeah, there's no way that a peaceful crowd of protesters exercising their 1st Amendment rights could turn ugly upon being forced away by lockstep-marching police in riot gear.

No way at all. rly:[/QUOTE]

Government may regulate the time, place, and manner—but not content—of expression.

In other words, you're not allowed to just show up in a random place without the permits to do so and stand around chanting slogans.[/QUOTE]

What does that have to do with the appearance, behavior, and attitude of the police contributing to the inflammation, rather than the dissipation, of tension?

Also, how much are the permits in question? Local government cannot, in fact, set whatever permit they want, no questions asked.

---------- Post added at 07:19 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:16 PM ----------

Police in riot gear will upset the hippies but possibly ensure that the protest is controllable, but if they showed up without riot gear there would be a whole lot more trouble if things got rough.

Yes, nothing keeps protests controllable like a line of riot police banging their Asps on their riot shields in time while marching forward threateningly.

 

[Rob King]

Hippies aren't the only ones who protest. If you don't like colorful, biased language, you should at least try avoiding it yourself.

Hey. If you can be ridiculous, so can I. I never claimed to be the bigger man.

EDIT: Oops. I didn't look who I was responding to. But my point stands.

Yes, nothing keeps protests controllable like a line of riot police banging their Asps on their riot shields in time while marching forward threateningly.

Did I miss when it was clearly established that the police moved first? Because if they didn't, then I'm fine with their war dance. Anything that gets the job done is fine by me.

 

[SpecialKO]

Yes, nothing keeps protests controllable like a line of riot police banging their Asps on their riot shields in time while marching forward threateningly.

Did I miss when it was clearly established that the police moved first? Because if they didn't, then I'm fine with their war dance.

They need to clearly establish that they didn't.

There are few things more important in a free society than ensuring that those with the power of arrest and the ability to lawfully resort to violence against their fellow-citizens have done so correctly.

Anything that gets the job done is fine by me.

Heh. Now that's pretty funny.

 

[Rob King]

Did I miss when it was clearly established that the police moved first? Because if they didn't, then I'm fine with their war dance.

They need to clearly establish that they didn't.

There are few things more important in a free society than ensuring that those with the power of arrest and the ability to lawfully resort to violence against their fellow-citizens have done so correctly.

I guess that's fair-ish. But I don't take any issue with the specific actions of the police in this incedent. It's the lead-up that's important.

If they instigated with the war dance, then it's not only unjust, but a little bit frightening.

If they reacted, though, then I'm willing to dismiss the war dance. I don't know if it's standard operating procedure or not, but the assumption in this thread seems to be that it's not. If it's not, I wouldn't get all up ins over it. Someone got creative because they clearly thought it would help. If it did or didn't isn't the big issue. If it made things worse, and then got repeated over and over and over at protest after protest ... we'd have a problem. But the willingness to be creative is something that needs to be encouraged ...

Anything that gets the job done is fine by me.

Heh. Now that's pretty funny.

... so we can read fun stories like this on the internet!

 

[crono1224]

So we come full circle to understanding that we don't understand who acted first, the problem with random videos is they usually aren't started from the begining but more when things start to get ugly, and because of that time lapse we can't really determine what started what.

Another issue is police are going to err on the side of caution just because of shit thats happened before, whether or not its justified its a simple fact of them knowing shit can happen.

 

[Krisken]

So we come full circle to understanding that we don't understand who acted first, the problem with random videos is they usually aren't started from the begining but more when things start to get ugly, and because of that time lapse we can't really determine what started what.

Another issue is police are going to err on the side of caution just because of shit thats happened before, whether or not its justified its a simple fact of them knowing shit can happen.

I would argue that police are people too, and they make mistakes, have emotions, and fall under the same problems as most people who have power and are in a stressful situation.

 

[crono1224]

So we come full circle to understanding that we don't understand who acted first, the problem with random videos is they usually aren't started from the begining but more when things start to get ugly, and because of that time lapse we can't really determine what started what.

Another issue is police are going to err on the side of caution just because of shit thats happened before, whether or not its justified its a simple fact of them knowing shit can happen.

I would argue that police are people too, and they make mistakes, have emotions, and fall under the same problems as most people who have power and are in a stressful situation.[/QUOTE]

Agreed, now i'm not trying to say the police are infallible but its hard to discern fault from these videos and the woman throwing the bike made a huge mistake, regardless of if the police instigated the situation, you should still leave.

Also if a cop pushes you a bit, violence against them negates almost any argument you would have.

 

[Le Quack]

I was thinking today, and cops need checks and balances just like everything else in the government. There should be a whole NEW public sector devoted to nick-picking everything a cop does and make sure everything done is legal and constitutional.