Religion?
- Thread starter Vytamindi
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The reason I put "proof" in quotations is because I realize that having faith means believing in something, even if it hasn't been proven or disproved. I just want to know why YOU believe in what you do.
There's a reason for everything. Maybe you witnessed a miracle, maybe you got rubbed the wrong way... I just am curious, and I trust everyone to stay classy
(which Dave gave a good example of)
There's a reason for everything. Maybe you witnessed a miracle, maybe you got rubbed the wrong way... I just am curious, and I trust everyone to stay classy
(which Dave gave a good example of)
I can respect YOUR MOM.Let's be respectful on such a touchy subject
Q
Qonas
Religion to me isn't about "proof". You can't prove most things in religion. You also can't disprove them either.
It's called 'faith' for a reason. You have to take some things on faith, in order to 'believe'. I went through a very angry, very anti-religion phase during high school. But since that time, I have had way too many coincidences, random chances, and seemingly non-connected events that become interconnected for me to not believe. The alternative is to believe in nothing, that when we die there's nothing, and to me that's just bleak and useless. I also happen to agree that adherence to faith leads toward people bettering themselves and others.
For the record, I'm Catholic.
It's called 'faith' for a reason. You have to take some things on faith, in order to 'believe'. I went through a very angry, very anti-religion phase during high school. But since that time, I have had way too many coincidences, random chances, and seemingly non-connected events that become interconnected for me to not believe. The alternative is to believe in nothing, that when we die there's nothing, and to me that's just bleak and useless. I also happen to agree that adherence to faith leads toward people bettering themselves and others.
For the record, I'm Catholic.
Atheist, because somebody has to be the designated driver.
I cannot look at the world, as it is, and not believe that there isn't some higher purpose at work, though I haven't the faintest clue what it is.
While I haven't found much satisfaction at any religious organizations local to me, my personal belief is that if you look to religion to help you overcome your own shortcomings and be a truly better person, then I will support you.
While I haven't found much satisfaction at any religious organizations local to me, my personal belief is that if you look to religion to help you overcome your own shortcomings and be a truly better person, then I will support you.
ElJuski
Staff member
I believe in the possibility of God, but I believe that religion really cocks up a lot of people. There are people that take religion and use it for good; but all too much people take religion and use it as a facility to hate and discriminate. Not to mention torture, rape and kill.
I believe that, if there is a God, it may not be God, but may just be the next step up in the Universe or past the Universe. I believe that all too often mankind sees itself as the penultimate in Creation, and I think that doesn't mean they deserve to control and break the world at their will.
I do believe that, in the absence of God or any guiding moral value, the only reason to continue existing is to keep good company and to be good company as humanly possible.
I believe that, if there is a God, it may not be God, but may just be the next step up in the Universe or past the Universe. I believe that all too often mankind sees itself as the penultimate in Creation, and I think that doesn't mean they deserve to control and break the world at their will.
I do believe that, in the absence of God or any guiding moral value, the only reason to continue existing is to keep good company and to be good company as humanly possible.
Q
Qonas
Also, on the subject of "proof", this is why I don't see why there has to be this titantic struggle between science and religion. Science is the 'how', religion is the 'why'.
It's like with a car, science explains how it is put together. Why the rivets hold things together, that turning the steering wheel will turn the tires, etc. Religion would explain why the car was created in the first place and what it was created to do.
It's like with a car, science explains how it is put together. Why the rivets hold things together, that turning the steering wheel will turn the tires, etc. Religion would explain why the car was created in the first place and what it was created to do.
iirc anthropology deals with that...
I was brought up Christian, Baptist in particular as a kid. My grandfather was our preacher. Then grandpa decided to feel up my girl cousins and got arrested. Then it came out that he had been doing the same to my mother and aunts when they were kids. Then our church decided that everyone in our family was evil and kicked us all out. This caused me to be very wary of anything religious for a long time.
But I came to realize that like anything else, it wasn't God's fault for how people act, it's their own choices. Because of my illnesses that I've had over the years, I've seen both tragedy and miracles, one of them being myself included. There's no way I should be alive right now, but I am, and I have to believe it's for a purpose. There is a God, of that I'm sure of, and I can't explain why, I just "know."
So in summary, or tl;dr: I believe in God, but I don't believe in organized religion.
But I came to realize that like anything else, it wasn't God's fault for how people act, it's their own choices. Because of my illnesses that I've had over the years, I've seen both tragedy and miracles, one of them being myself included. There's no way I should be alive right now, but I am, and I have to believe it's for a purpose. There is a God, of that I'm sure of, and I can't explain why, I just "know."
So in summary, or tl;dr: I believe in God, but I don't believe in organized religion.
W
Wasabi Poptart
I don't subscribe to any one organized religion. I feel that too much importance is placed on "I'm right and you're wrong" when it comes to religion. Many of the stories in various world religions are the same or similar. I can't say "Christianity is the one true religion" when there are people of other beliefs who are celebrating a holiday with basically the same story behind it.
I have faith in a higher power. It may be a God/Goddess. It may be science. Maybe it's some how a combination of both. I don't believe in the benevolent old man in the sky who chooses our path for us and will punish us for being bad. I don't believe there is a red-skinned demon with a pitchfork waiting for bad people in an eternal pit of fire (actually, if there is a hell I think it's more like Dante's vision) I think we have free will to do as we wish and consequences, good or bad, will follow. But I do feel there is something bigger out there and I can't quite explain it.
I have faith in a higher power. It may be a God/Goddess. It may be science. Maybe it's some how a combination of both. I don't believe in the benevolent old man in the sky who chooses our path for us and will punish us for being bad. I don't believe there is a red-skinned demon with a pitchfork waiting for bad people in an eternal pit of fire (actually, if there is a hell I think it's more like Dante's vision) I think we have free will to do as we wish and consequences, good or bad, will follow. But I do feel there is something bigger out there and I can't quite explain it.
Dave
Staff member
I think Nick really hit the nail on the head for me. To most religions, God is this omnipotent being who sees all, knows all and has everything planned out ahead of time, yet we have the ability for free will. Basically, we invent (for lack of a better word) this awesome supreme being and then force him to be like us and give him strict limitations and rules that are so human-centric that it makes no sense.
Really the only reason that I think there could be something out there is the fact that everything had to begin somewhere and the big bang is difficult to wrap my head around. Like God coming out of nothingness is any better, but hey. Even if the space/time continuum is nothing more than an infinite loop it still had to begin somehow, right?
Really the only reason that I think there could be something out there is the fact that everything had to begin somewhere and the big bang is difficult to wrap my head around. Like God coming out of nothingness is any better, but hey. Even if the space/time continuum is nothing more than an infinite loop it still had to begin somehow, right?
I was raised Episcopalian, and one day I just kind of thought "wouldn't it be funny if everyone was sitting here talking and bowing and lighting candles for no reason at all?"
And I didn't want to waste my time being part of the joke.
And I didn't want to waste my time being part of the joke.
I can respect YOUR MOM.[/quote]Let's be respectful on such a touchy subject
You should! She's a nice woman! :laugh:
Thanks for your replies so far. I've been thinking about this for a while, and I feel like I need to "come out" about my shaking faith in organized religion.
C
Chibibar
The thing about religion is what YOU believe. Don't let anyone else tell you. It is your personal faith and what you believe.
you can always look around and see what "establish" religion is all about, but in the end (at least in my book) what you believe is what you believe. It is not my place to say, your belief is bad vs mine cause we all believe in something ourselves. That is why it is call faith.
There is no proof unless you deem it so. Like a miracles, some people might say it is divine intervention, some say it is pure luck, some say it just happen, who knows, each person interpret it differently.
you can always look around and see what "establish" religion is all about, but in the end (at least in my book) what you believe is what you believe. It is not my place to say, your belief is bad vs mine cause we all believe in something ourselves. That is why it is call faith.
There is no proof unless you deem it so. Like a miracles, some people might say it is divine intervention, some say it is pure luck, some say it just happen, who knows, each person interpret it differently.
Raised Catholic, I alternate between going and not going to church. On at least one occasion I gave a confession that started "I have not done this in 7 years." I lasted in the church for a couple of years and now I could give the same confession again.
When the scandals broke out several years back, it really affected my belief in the church.
It also matters who is running the church, charisma and leadership matters. Once I did find the church I felt at home with, I went quite a bit. But I've moved around a lot. And never found that sense of home again.
When the scandals broke out several years back, it really affected my belief in the church.
It also matters who is running the church, charisma and leadership matters. Once I did find the church I felt at home with, I went quite a bit. But I've moved around a lot. And never found that sense of home again.
This is exactly what happened to me with Catholocism, except I was 5
I had just realized that Santa Claus wasn't real, and I figured that God was just something the adults invented to make sure I was good.I still believe the exact same thing.
Atheist. Why atheist? Simplicity. I believe in a universe that is lawful (not like D&D but like physics) and that those laws work autonomously, or else they would not be laws. In order to believe in a god, I would first have to make many assumptions about that being and the universe that destroy the simplicity with which the universe seems to function. If we can explain the way that planets and weather and species and atoms and culture all work without needing to define god, then I am content in letting god go. Like any good atheist, I have to accept the possibility that I'm wrong, though. Is it possible there is a god? Of course. I won't begrudge anyone believing in him or her either.
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GeneralOrder24
Well, I had a long post explaining why I believe and what I've seen, but the board deleted it.
Proof that God doesn't want you to know what I do?
You decide.
PS: I will reiterate anyway, from my original post that good churches do not give irons to live your life inside of, but more often than not, ask questions instead of giving answers, making you think. I believe man has warped the will and word of God, and used it in an attempt to control man.
Proof that God doesn't want you to know what I do?
You decide.
PS: I will reiterate anyway, from my original post that good churches do not give irons to live your life inside of, but more often than not, ask questions instead of giving answers, making you think. I believe man has warped the will and word of God, and used it in an attempt to control man.
Cajungal
Staff member
Raised Catholic, but disagreed with a lot of it and couldn't be bothered to be one of these progressive Catholics who want to change the face of the church. . . plus I've moved completely away from Christianity.
I don't have any proof of God, and I don't look for any, really. It's just a feeling that's never left me, no matter how much I've distance myself from it. I don't try to prove it to other people, either. My spirituality is just that--mine; it's personal, and other people have to find their own way--inside or outside of the idea of a God somewhere.
I just try to treat others and myself well and be honest.
I don't have any proof of God, and I don't look for any, really. It's just a feeling that's never left me, no matter how much I've distance myself from it. I don't try to prove it to other people, either. My spirituality is just that--mine; it's personal, and other people have to find their own way--inside or outside of the idea of a God somewhere.
I just try to treat others and myself well and be honest.
This is exactly what happened to me with Catholocism, except I was 5
I had just realized that Santa Claus wasn't real, and I figured that God was just something the adults invented to make sure I was good.I still believe the exact same thing.[/QUOTE]
Same. I still went to church though and was even an acolyte for that for a little while. I'm still in the closet to half my family on not still being a good Christian.
This is exactly what happened to me with Catholocism, except I was 5
I had just realized that Santa Claus wasn't real, and I figured that God was just something the adults invented to make sure I was good.I still believe the exact same thing.[/quote]
Same. I still went to church though and was even an acolyte for that for a little while. I'm still in the closet to half my family on not still being a good Christian.[/QUOTE]
This is why I'm glad my family was never overly religious to start with. I never had to go through the motions and pretend that I believe in something I don't.
Half my family is, but they don't care as long as I'm happy.
N
nufan
I don't thin what I belive is important except to me.
I feel if you believe in God you have to believe in the Devil. But no one seems to talk about him (or her).
I watched my mother succumb to a disease for 20 years. 20 years of suffering in daily pain. My mother was an avid church goer until she couldn't get there anymore. My father worked long days and came home to take care of her.
People will say "well God works in mysterious ways". No, no he does not. If you can interpret that book so precisely then god knows exactly what the fuck he's doing. "Well God listens but doesn't always answer." Stop making excuses for your faith. If you believe in God you have to believe in suffering.
Some might take this situation as a sign to pray more, believe more. Others might take it as a chance to defy,deny in any religion.
I used to question everyday
If no one believed in God(s) would nations be aruguing to the point of genocide?
If no one believed in God(s) where would all the church donations go?
If no one believed in God(s) who would we blame?
then I wondered how much time I was wasting trying to believe and let it go.
I feel if you believe in God you have to believe in the Devil. But no one seems to talk about him (or her).
I watched my mother succumb to a disease for 20 years. 20 years of suffering in daily pain. My mother was an avid church goer until she couldn't get there anymore. My father worked long days and came home to take care of her.
People will say "well God works in mysterious ways". No, no he does not. If you can interpret that book so precisely then god knows exactly what the fuck he's doing. "Well God listens but doesn't always answer." Stop making excuses for your faith. If you believe in God you have to believe in suffering.
Some might take this situation as a sign to pray more, believe more. Others might take it as a chance to defy,deny in any religion.
I used to question everyday
If no one believed in God(s) would nations be aruguing to the point of genocide?
If no one believed in God(s) where would all the church donations go?
If no one believed in God(s) who would we blame?
then I wondered how much time I was wasting trying to believe and let it go.
Not sure how well this will go over, but...
Raised Christian, drifted a bit during/after college, rededicated as a Christian after my life at the time was shattered.
Why a Christian? Well, I could go with the long or the short version, but I'll stick with the short for now: I believe there has to be a point to life and existence beyond just existing. It's not based in any sort of scientific proof, it's just a belief I have. That doesn't mean I have good or even any answers to difficult questions in life, I just believe what I believe.
Also, that doesn't mean that I agree with the exact perspective every other Christian has, and that to me is the most frustrating part of being religious. I tend to get lumped in with every half-wit yokel who believes in God and uses religion as some sort of almighty justification for prejudice or elitism. I believe that being a Christian, at its base, is simply a belief in the existence of a God that loves people enough to give them a free will, that at some point we as a people blew it due to our selfish nature, that the person of Jesus Christ paid for it through his death (and subsequent resurrection, which I know is illogical in every sense of the definition, but it's part of the Christian faith), and that we need only accept that sacrifice as a means of being saved for eternity.
I understand that many struggle with what is or isn't real, and that many may look at my statement as a way to designate me as naive or ignorant of reality, but really to me my religious view is a philosophical assertion, rather than a scientific proof. It's just the way I try to live my life, as imperfect as I am, and as many mistakes as I make routinely, it's a decent thing to life for.
Raised Christian, drifted a bit during/after college, rededicated as a Christian after my life at the time was shattered.
Why a Christian? Well, I could go with the long or the short version, but I'll stick with the short for now: I believe there has to be a point to life and existence beyond just existing. It's not based in any sort of scientific proof, it's just a belief I have. That doesn't mean I have good or even any answers to difficult questions in life, I just believe what I believe.
Also, that doesn't mean that I agree with the exact perspective every other Christian has, and that to me is the most frustrating part of being religious. I tend to get lumped in with every half-wit yokel who believes in God and uses religion as some sort of almighty justification for prejudice or elitism. I believe that being a Christian, at its base, is simply a belief in the existence of a God that loves people enough to give them a free will, that at some point we as a people blew it due to our selfish nature, that the person of Jesus Christ paid for it through his death (and subsequent resurrection, which I know is illogical in every sense of the definition, but it's part of the Christian faith), and that we need only accept that sacrifice as a means of being saved for eternity.
I understand that many struggle with what is or isn't real, and that many may look at my statement as a way to designate me as naive or ignorant of reality, but really to me my religious view is a philosophical assertion, rather than a scientific proof. It's just the way I try to live my life, as imperfect as I am, and as many mistakes as I make routinely, it's a decent thing to life for.
R
rabbitgod
My mother was raised catholic and my father mormon. As a result I don't believe in anything.
I don't begrudge people who do though. It's an intensly personal thing and you aren't wrong for believing in it. Trained to be an Anthropologist I firmly believe that religion is a perfectly natural thing to participate in. It's something that's a part of us...a sense of community.
I don't begrudge people who do though. It's an intensly personal thing and you aren't wrong for believing in it. Trained to be an Anthropologist I firmly believe that religion is a perfectly natural thing to participate in. It's something that's a part of us...a sense of community.
tl;dr
Christian - for numerous personal reasons.
I too have doubts, but I think that's healthy and normal.
Christian - for numerous personal reasons.
I too have doubts, but I think that's healthy and normal.
S
SeraRelm
In my experience, humans are the only animal (that we know of) to ask "why" and religion is a way to get them to stop.
I don't think we should ever stop.
I don't think we should ever stop.
K
Kitty Sinatra
I'm ignoring the second half of the thread so far because it looks like it's turning into a different discussion that V wanted (not that thread drift is wrong)
Me? I'm atheist.
I sometimes think my "proof" came when reading Dante's Inferno. No, it's not a religious work; no, it's not even about Hell, but as I was reading through it all the other depictions of Hell, Heaven and the afterlife whether fictional (including D&D's fantasy afterlife) or those of believers'. I don't just mean the depictions, either, but the idea behind it - that idea of the eternal life of the soul - and I decided that it was just wrong. Not just inconceivable or impossible. Simply wrong. And I just extend that to God, too (whichever God you want that to be). Now, I sometimes think that's my proof. Other times, I assume that's just my justification, and a justification I don't need.
I simply don't believe. Not in God, not in the soul. This extends to all things supernatural, too. Not ghosts, not monsters, not even fate. I am an unbeliever.
Me? I'm atheist.
I sometimes think my "proof" came when reading Dante's Inferno. No, it's not a religious work; no, it's not even about Hell, but as I was reading through it all the other depictions of Hell, Heaven and the afterlife whether fictional (including D&D's fantasy afterlife) or those of believers'. I don't just mean the depictions, either, but the idea behind it - that idea of the eternal life of the soul - and I decided that it was just wrong. Not just inconceivable or impossible. Simply wrong. And I just extend that to God, too (whichever God you want that to be). Now, I sometimes think that's my proof. Other times, I assume that's just my justification, and a justification I don't need.
I simply don't believe. Not in God, not in the soul. This extends to all things supernatural, too. Not ghosts, not monsters, not even fate. I am an unbeliever.
On that note, have you read about the afterlife that awaits atheists/agnostics in classic D&D lore? Shit be messed up.
K
Kitty Sinatra
I must've blocked that from my mind. And I ain't looking that up now. Just in case.
S
Soliloquy
My reasons for believing in God are fairly numerous, but I think that the core of it can be summed up by this C.S. Lewis quote:
Have you read The Great Divorce? That's my favorite description of heaven and hell, and probably the most satisfying.
Have you read The Great Divorce? That's my favorite description of heaven and hell, and probably the most satisfying.
C
Chibibar
Unfortunately, I don't have time to get into the details of my faith, but I don't see religions as being so illogical as many people (even many religious people) would have you believe.[/quote]
To me, I think the general population needs to believe in something in order to "function" or at least "accepts the situation they are in"
Most people seek some sort of "reward" when they do things. Some seek out physically, some seek out spiritually, and some just seek out any other means possible. Think about it, if the world is truly "meaningless" in a sense that there is no God or higher power, who are the general public will follow? A higher thinking people would accepts it and be the masters of their own faith, but many people are blind followers (that is what I call them) that they need guidance to accept and do what they do.
A lot of people accepts and do things because they want that big reward at the end (going to heaven) instead of doing good, cause it is a good thing to do.
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