I guess a big one I'd center to that argument, separating natural as physical or worldly, and then purely spiritual as something else. Using your example, I would call having sex with whoever to have natural consequences--possibility of disease, and hurting loved ones. But there's others that I'd see as purely spiritual, such as taking God's name in vain, or idolatry. Those don't seem to have what I'd see as a natural consequences, but more spiritual ones. God sets up the spiritual repercussions, which would be in his power to change if he chose to do so. Lots of people doing the "in vain" one, and I can idolize the fuck out of shit.
Probably I see it that way because I see the physical universe as one, and then spiritual as the next, when I view the Christian theological system. The whole "heaven is the real home" model that a lot of evangelicals have taken up in which Earth is some failed experiment, and people are just supposed to get through it.
Even ignoring that, I still have to look at it from an outside POV and see that some things (like my examples) have no consequence outside of reward/punishment chosen by God. I don't see them as set like gravity.
That said, that may be because I'm not part of it. In my faith, things are more immediate, less permanent. You do wrong, it WILL come back, not by any deity's decision, but because that's the way the universe works. Same for good. And a physical bad can reflux in an emotional bad.
That may seem hypocritical, that I view it as natural in mine but not in yours, but it's not because I'm not in yours. It's because in Christianity, God has a bigger role. He's the creator, he shapes it all--like you said, he's the main character of the Bible, so I see it as more his decision to have a heaven/hell dynamic.
And I like our discussions too. I know what you're saying with the "some Christians" and I know they're a vocal minority. It's hard not to see them, which is why I phrase some aspects of my arguments the way I do.[/QUOTE]
Totally! You have to phrase them that way since it is, in the end, the way most people experience Christianity. We all have generalizations about people/things and they aren't bad to address.
You know, regarding the spiritual/natural worlds, yes they are separate in Christian theology/worldview but they are also interconnected. It's frustrating when Christians put so much emphasis on heaven/end rewards since Christ told us to look towards it but run the race here on earth. The worlds are, then, in my opinion, all part of the same universe. The spiritual and the natural are, according to scripture, literally affecting each other. It's hard for me then, as a Christian to not have that shape my views on consequences (all kinds of them, good and bad, spiritual and natural).
So yes, the sex issue we are discussing has, most obviously, physical/natural consequences, but according to Scripture it is also the only physical act between two people that joins them spiritually, or another way to put it is, your souls literally touch when you have sex, making it an even more amazingly intimate act than if it was purely physical.
Regarding things like "take God's name in vain" I think we can look at that as a simple rebelling against the authority above you. When a cop pulls you over you don't say, "What can I do for you you mothersmurfing pig?". You give him the respect his badge demands. God's place, as the perfect, creator of the universe deserves this modicum of respect, just like any king/president/etc but in way that makes them look like ants. So yes, there are some things that probably mainly have spiritual consequences. However, we each one has unique things about it that may change that.
In the OT we saw people stray from God to other idols. This caused the destruction of nations due to their weakening spiritually. So there were some very serious consequences to what seemed to be a spiritual thing.
Either way, Christians who look at earth as a failed experiment like you said (and many do), are clearly missing the point of the Bible and God's message to us. Like I said above, there are clear purposes to why we are here, and sin is merely a kink in the wheels, not a destruction of the purposes.
