Great Dad or Greatest Dad?

[ThatGrinningIdiot!]

What the hell, Kissinger? :angry:

 

[Steven Soderburgin]

whoa what did i do

 

[Dave]

I think that was someone not reading the whole thread.

 

[Steven Soderburgin]

i uh

 

[ThatGrinningIdiot!]

whoa what did i do

You're displaying generous amounts of wisdom, tolerance, patience, and humility. Where did this side of you come from? What happened to the indignant, self-righteous prick who mercilesly condemned those who disagreed with him? I don't like this change of heart, sir, I don't like it one bit.

 

[Gusto]

hwell:

 

[ThatGrinningIdiot!]

Heh.

I was expecting Kissinger to act all high and mighty, or to troll people on such a topic of abortion and the over-aggressive father. Instead I was surprised - pleasantly I might add - by the decorum and understanding he's shown in this discussion.

 

[Steven Soderburgin]

Look I'll still be hell of indignant and self-righteous if some backward ass father wanna treat his daughter and by extension her sexuality as his property instead of as her own person with her own thoughts, ideas, feelings, and desires.

 

[Kitty Sinatra]

okay, who messed up what's currently the first tag. It should read "a groin's a hard target"

 

[SeraRelm]

Well first I'd impale them with a claymore, mid-coupling, effectively pinning them to the bed like a butterfly in a collection, then I'd tow the bed out to an abandoned field where I'd douse the entirety in gasoline before setting it aflame. After the fire died down, I'd gather the ashes and remains, pass them through a wood chipper, burn them again, then sprinkle them over the ocean.

That'd teach them to deepen their relationship.

 

[Dave]

Well first I'd impale them with a claymore, mid-coupling, effectively pinning them to the bed like a butterfly in a collection, then I'd tow the bed out to an abandoned field where I'd douse the entirety in gasoline before setting it aflame. After the fire died down, I'd gather the ashes and remains, pass them through a wood chipper, burn them again, then sprinkle them over the ocean.

That'd teach them to deepen their relationship.

99% of teenage sex is only deepening the relationship for 1/2 of the couple.

 

[Denbrought]

Well first I'd impale them with a claymore, mid-coupling, effectively pinning them to the bed like a butterfly in a collection, then I'd tow the bed out to an abandoned field where I'd douse the entirety in gasoline before setting it aflame. After the fire died down, I'd gather the ashes and remains, pass them through a wood chipper, burn them again, then sprinkle them over the ocean.

That'd teach them to deepen their relationship.

Great Mum or Greatest Mum?

 

[Fun Size]

Well first I'd impale them with a claymore, mid-coupling, effectively pinning them to the bed like a butterfly in a collection, then I'd tow the bed out to an abandoned field where I'd douse the entirety in gasoline before setting it aflame. After the fire died down, I'd gather the ashes and remains, pass them through a wood chipper, burn them again, then sprinkle them over the ocean.

That'd teach them to deepen their relationship.

99% of teenage sex is only deepening the relationship five and a half inches.[/QUOTE]

FTFY

 

[Morgoth]

Well first I'd impale them with a claymore, mid-coupling, effectively pinning them to the bed like a butterfly in a collection, then I'd tow the bed out to an abandoned field where I'd douse the entirety in gasoline before setting it aflame. After the fire died down, I'd gather the ashes and remains, pass them through a wood chipper, burn them again, then sprinkle them over the ocean.

That'd teach them to deepen their relationship.

99% of teenage sex is only deepening the relationship for 1/2 of the couple.[/QUOTE]


"Aww come on baby, you know I love you right?" "Don't you love me?" "I want to express our love more physically."

Yes sir, I've been around block enough when I was a youngin to know what's pulsating through young men's heads (both top and bottom).

---------- Post added at 01:53 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:52 PM ----------

Well first I'd impale them with a claymore, mid-coupling, effectively pinning them to the bed like a butterfly in a collection, then I'd tow the bed out to an abandoned field where I'd douse the entirety in gasoline before setting it aflame. After the fire died down, I'd gather the ashes and remains, pass them through a wood chipper, burn them again, then sprinkle them over the ocean.

That'd teach them to deepen their relationship.

99% of teenage sex is only deepening the relationship five and a half inches.[/quote]

FTFY[/QUOTE]


HAHA!

And then brags about the relationship being about 7-8!

 

[SeraRelm]

What's with the assumption that girls are helpless and can't say no?

 

[fade]

As you can see from my post, I was well aware I was making a straw man. But the kernel remains--I was exaggerating for effect.

Yes, this is what a strawman is: turning an argument into something it's not to weaken it[/QUOTE]

Yes, I know. I was pointing out that the argument wasn't to be taken entirely at face value.

 

[Gusto]

What's with the assumption that girls are helpless and can't say no?

This.

Or that guys are scheming tricksters with sinister aims?

 

[Morgoth]

What's with the assumption that girls are helpless and can't say no?

Yes, they can say no. How long ago were you a teenager? Have you forgotten how hard it is to resist peer pressure, let alone pressure from a boyfriend/girlfriend?

"Just touch it once." "You'll like it." "Please, baby, you mean so much to me."

Do I need to go on, or do you need further reminders that teenagers are probably the worst decision makers on Earth?

 

[SeraRelm]

1: I joined the soccer team to enjoy the view, I remember well how raging hormones worked so very long ago in the ancient days of yore.
2: Why are you still assuming it's always the girl who is the victim/target?
3: Assuming your child will always make mistakes and is always wrong will only push them into it. Maybe if you tried guiding a child rather than expecting the worst every single time, you'd have less problems.
4: Sex is by far not the worst thing in which a teenager can get involved. Looking at Dave's post, I'm thinking he's probably one of the most level headed about this and he has a daughter the same age as that fellow's.

 

[Piotyr]

2: Why are you still assuming it's always the girl who is the victim/target?

I assume it has to do with the fact that 90% of the forum is populated with males that either (a) remember sexual encounters in which they were not the victim, or (b) yearn for sexual encounters in such a way that they would never be a victim. Doesn't make it right, just a certain perspective one would expect from a forum such as this (i.e. based around comics and games).

4: Sex is by far not the worst thing in which a teenager can get involved. Looking at Dave's post, I'm thinking he's probably one of the most level headed about this and he has a daughter the same age as that fellow's.

It's not the worst thing, sure, but unsafe hetero sex carries with it a lot of risks and thus responsibilities that can affect an individual for the rest of his or her life, and thinking about the consequences of an action isn't the strong point for many an adolescent.

 

[Steven Soderburgin]

I assume it has to do with the fact that 90% of the forum is populated with males that either (a) remember sexual encounters in which they were not the victim, or (b) yearn for sexual encounters in such a way that they would never be a victim. Doesn't make it right, just a certain perspective one would expect from a forum such as this (i.e. based around comics and games).

Or really anywhere in society. Furthermore, *100 page post about male gaze, sexism, male privilege, etc, etc*

It's not the worst thing, sure, but unsafe hetero sex carries with it a lot of risks and thus responsibilities that can affect an individual for the rest of his or her life, and thinking about the consequences of an action isn't the strong point for many an adolescent.

That's why it's the parent's responsibility to make sure their children are aware of these risks and know how to avoid them.

 

[SeraRelm]

The first might hold true for some of them, but I doubt it's so for all. It's more than likely due to personal experiences for those few, but it's still a general stereotype that I don't see holding true given the way teenagers act these days.

As for the second, I agree, but guiding them to do so safely is a more reasonable and responsible approach which is why I mentioned Dave's post. You can't really guide a child to steal responsibly or do cocaine safely.

 

[Armadillo]

The first might hold true for some of them, but I doubt it's so for all. It's more than likely due to personal experiences for those few, but it's still a general stereotype that I don't see holding true given the way teenagers act these days.

As for the second, I agree, but guiding them to do so safely is a more reasonable and responsible approach which is why I mentioned Dave's post. You can't really guide a child to steal responsibly or do cocaine safely.

Sera, I respect what you're saying, but you're coming at this from a completely different viewpoint than I am. Let me explain where I'm coming from:

I'm all for equal rights for all. My wife is the breadwinner, I want my daughter to be able to do whatever she wants in life, and to be subservient to nobody. So that takes care of my "I'm not a Neanderthal" defense.

My job as a father is to protect my children from harm, while also preparing them for their life as adults. Teaching safe sex is part of the preparation part, as is instilling enough self-respect in her that she won't cave in to peer pressure or any other kind of pressure that could compromise her life and/or goals. (Note: this goes for any hypothetical sons as well, but since I only have a girl, I'll be using "she" and "her" for this.)

As for the "protection," I remember what it was like being a teenaged boy with raging hormones, and how much of a factor sex was in my decision-making process. I don't like the idea of some teenaged horned-up punk looking at my little angel as a potential hookup or whatever else he thinks; it's purely emotional, so asking me or anyone else to defend this viewpoint in a rational way is an exercise in futility. It's part of the hardwired "defend the family" thing we have going on.

I was there when she was born, I watched her take her first breath, I've held her through fevers, colds, flus, anger, sadness, and I'll continue to do so as long as I live. I'd willingly lay my life down for her, and I refuse to apologize or be made to feel guilty for being protective of her.

 

[IronBrig4]

With all due respect, Ironbrig, I gather from this conversation that you have neither a daughter, nor guns...or even a house for that matter.

So, basically your opinion on how you're going to 'rule the roost' is akin to hearing a virgin talk about what his love life 'will be like'--16 to 17 years from now. Dude, you have no clue what your home situation is going to be like until you get slapped in the face with the reality of it.

Nope, I already said I don't have kids or guns. The majority of my cash goes towards school and paying rent in Hawaii. And I know I won't have a clue about what my home life will be like until it actually happens. The missus would probably make me soften my reaction somewhat anyways.

But I do remember being 17, and one of the lessons I learned was the threat of getting my ass kicked was more than enough to make me bring her home by 11. There was the usual respect towards girls too, but the mental imagery of her angry dad scared the crap out of me. Of course now I know he wouldn't actually have done it, but that definitely leaves an impression on a teenaged boy's mind. And teenagers love to talk, so word gets out around school that so-and-so's dad has a shotgun.

And teenagers are NOT adults. Physically yes, but certainly not mentally. Think about what you were like at 16 or 17. You weren't smart back then and you did a lot of stupid stuff due to raging hormones. In fact, you were a goddamned idiot. Not "you" personally, but "you" in general. Most of those escapades were learning experiences that you couldn't have learned any other way, but I'm sure there were some things you did that you regret. Perhaps a girl's intimidating father might have prevented some of that?

@ Armadillo: YES! That's what I've been trying to say all along.

 

[Morgoth]

It's not the worst thing, sure, but unsafe hetero sex carries with it a lot of risks and thus responsibilities that can affect an individual for the rest of his or her life, and thinking about the consequences of an action isn't the strong point for many an adolescent.

That's why it's the parent's responsibility to make sure their children are aware of these risks and know how to avoid them.

I'd say it's my responsibility to promote the "keep it in your pants" philosophy first and foremost.

 

[Steven Soderburgin]

I'd say it's my responsibility to promote the "keep it in your pants" philosophy first and foremost.

Yes, but considering that abstinence-only sex education has been proven to be ineffective and actually contributes to increases in teen pregnancy and the spread of STD's, letting them know how to be smart and safe if they choose to have sex is equally important.

 

[Morgoth]

I'd say it's my responsibility to promote the "keep it in your pants" philosophy first and foremost.

Yes, but considering that abstinence-only sex education has been proven to be ineffective and actually contributes to increases in teen pregnancy and the spread of STD's, letting them know how to be smart and safe if they choose to have sex is equally important.[/QUOTE]

Buddy, you're preaching to the choir. Do you know how many teen girls I set up with birth control every week; how many of the ol' 'wrap it up' speeches I give to my sexually active patients? I see the same look on those parent's faces as I would have on my own. It's a last resort, last ditch effort to keep them safe. Frankly, I get angry when I'm the first one to teach these kids these sorts of things instead of their parents explaining the birds and bees.

I still will refuse to condone my kids having sex while their under my roof to the fullest extent that I can.

 

[Tinwhistler]

With all due respect, Ironbrig, I gather from this conversation that you have neither a daughter, nor guns...or even a house for that matter.

So, basically your opinion on how you're going to 'rule the roost' is akin to hearing a virgin talk about what his love life 'will be like'--16 to 17 years from now. Dude, you have no clue what your home situation is going to be like until you get slapped in the face with the reality of it.

Nope, I already said I don't have kids or guns. The majority of my cash goes towards school and paying rent in Hawaii. And I know I won't have a clue about what my home life will be like until it actually happens. The missus would probably make me soften my reaction somewhat anyways.

But I do remember being 17, and one of the lessons I learned was the threat of getting my ass kicked was more than enough to make me bring her home by 11. There was the usual respect towards girls too, but the mental imagery of her angry dad scared the crap out of me. Of course now I know he wouldn't actually have done it, but that definitely leaves an impression on a teenaged boy's mind. And teenagers love to talk, so word gets out around school that so-and-so's dad has a shotgun.

And teenagers are NOT adults. Physically yes, but certainly not mentally. Think about what you were like at 16 or 17. You weren't smart back then and you did a lot of stupid stuff due to raging hormones. In fact, you were a goddamned idiot. Not "you" personally, but "you" in general. Most of those escapades were learning experiences that you couldn't have learned any other way, but I'm sure there were some things you did that you regret. Perhaps a girl's intimidating father might have prevented some of that?

@ Armadillo: YES! That's what I've been trying to say all along.[/quote]

You don't gotta tell me what being 17 was like. I remember it vividly.I mention it in a previous post, also.

I was a black belt in kung fu by the time I was in high school. That, and cocky high school hormones meant that I wasn't really afraid of anyone's father, regardless of whether I should have been or not.

I just don't think you have to threaten grevious bodily harm to teens in order to get them to follow your rules, or to think twice about their actions, even though it may be the easier course of action. I certainly don't believe that sexual experimentation among teens who have reached the age of consent is worth aggravated assault, battery, or attempted murder.

 

[Heavan]

I don't see what other options you guys are giving your daughters if you forbid sex in your home and/or threaten to hurt the guy if they do it. I mean, where else is there? You admit that you know they'll have sex, but you'll be damned if it'll be your house they do it in! Where, then? A back alley? Public restroom? 300 dollar hotel room?

 

[Cajungal]

What's with the assumption that girls are helpless and can't say no?

Yes, they can say no. How long ago were you a teenager? Have you forgotten how hard it is to resist peer pressure, let alone pressure from a boyfriend/girlfriend?

"Just touch it once." "You'll like it." "Please, baby, you mean so much to me."

Do I need to go on, or do you need further reminders that teenagers are probably the worst decision makers on Earth?[/QUOTE]

Do men... sorry.... boys really say those things and expect a positive reaction?

Suddenly I'm ecstatic that I haven't dated much.

 

[Biardo]

What's with the assumption that girls are helpless and can't say no?

Yes, they can say no. How long ago were you a teenager? Have you forgotten how hard it is to resist peer pressure, let alone pressure from a boyfriend/girlfriend?

"Just touch it once." "You'll like it." "Please, baby, you mean so much to me."

Do I need to go on, or do you need further reminders that teenagers are probably the worst decision makers on Earth?[/QUOTE]

Do men... sorry.... boys really say those things and expect a positive reaction?

Suddenly I'm ecstatic that I haven't dated much.[/QUOTE]

who says anything about dating, I, as a boy, use those lines every change I've got

 

[figmentPez]

Yes, but considering that abstinence-only sex education has been proven to be ineffective and actually contributes to increases in teen pregnancy and the spread of STD's, letting them know how to be smart and safe if they choose to have sex is equally important.

Proven? Depends on what kind of education you're talking about, and how you define ineffective. Programs where students were told "don't have sex" have not worked. Programs where students were not only told to abstain, but were also given support in how to resist peer pressure, etc, have been proven to actually be effective.

It's like saying "diets don't work", and then citing crash diets and chronic yo-yo dieters as examples. Not that I support abstinence-only education, but I also don't believe that promoting abstinence is useless. It is possible to reduce the number of teens having sex, by supporting them in not just choosing what decision is best, but how to actually follow through on such a decision.

 

[Steven Soderburgin]

Proven? Depends on what kind of education you're talking about, and how you define ineffective. Programs where students were told \"don't have sex\" have not worked. Programs where students were not only told to abstain, but were also given support in how to resist peer pressure, etc, have been proven to actually be effective.

It's like saying \"diets don't work\", and then citing crash diets and chronic yo-yo dieters as examples. Not that I support abstinence-only education, but I also don't believe that promoting abstinence is useless. It is possible to reduce the number of teens having sex, by supporting them in not just choosing what decision is best, but how to actually follow through on such a decision.

Uh what.

i'm talking about the actual abstinence-only programs that have been put to use in schools, and have received massive criticism from organizations like the AMA, APA, APHA and several other health organizations for being ineffective. Comprehensive sex education programs, i.e. programs which discuss abstinence as well as educating on contraceptives and their proper use, have been shown to be far more effective.

 

[figmentPez]

Uh what.

i'm talking about the actual abstinence-only programs that have been put to use in schools, and have received massive criticism from organizations like the AMA, APA, APHA and several other health organizations for being ineffective. Comprehensive sex education programs, i.e. programs which discuss abstinence as well as educating on contraceptives and their proper use, have been shown to be far more effective.

And there are also programs that are are abstinence-only, but provide students with mentoring and other resources that have been shown to be effective.

 

[Steven Soderburgin]

And there are also programs that are are abstinence-only, but provide students with mentoring and other resources that have been shown to be effective.

link to those please, and any statements or studies from reputable organizations that do show them to be effective.